Leicester Tigers 2016/17 thread.

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :

2016/17:
Director of Rugby: Richard Cockerill
Head Coach: Aaron Mauger
Assistant Backs Coach: Geordan Murphy
Assistant Forward Coach: Richard Blaze
Defence and Scrum Half Coach: Scott Hansen
Head of Rugby Operations: Ged Glynn
Team manager: Matt Cornwall

2016/17 Senior Squad: (Confirmed So Far) (Blue = EQP)
Hookers: Bateman, McGuigan, Thacker, Youngs
Props: Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara Cilliers, Cole, Genge, Mulipola, Rizzo
Locks: Barrow, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
Back Row: Croft, Fonua, Hamilton McCaffrey, O'Connor, Williams
Scrum Half: Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
Fly Half: Burns, Williams
Centre: Catchpole, Roberts, Smith, Toomua, Tuilagi
Back 3: Betham, Brady, Pieterson, Tait, Thompstone, Veainu
Squad number: 37, EQP: 24, Academy products: 8

Transfers
IN: (7)
McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons), Cilliers (Montpelier), Genge (Bristol), Hamilton (Agen), Toomua (ACT Brumbies). JP Pieterson (Sharks), Brady (Sale)

OUT: (12)
Ghiraldini (Toulouse), Pasquali (Treviso), De Chaves (London Irish), Crane (Bristol), Pearce (Sale), Bell (London Irish), Baikeinuku (retirement), De Villiers (Retirement), Benjamin (retirement), Morris (N/A), Camacho (N/A), Goneva (Newcastle Falcons)

Not Sure: (No official confirmation of leaving or Staying) 3
Aguero, Sio Loamanu,

Rumours:
Harry Wells (Bedford) Lock/6

2016/17 Development Squad: (15)
Bryant, Evans, Hills, Lewis, Mahoney, Maksymiw, J.Olowofela, R. Olowofela, Owen, Simmons, Thacker, Tuilagi, White, Worth, Yawayawa

Transfer
IN: (7)
Lewis, Mahoney, J.Olowofela, R. Olowofela, Simmons, White, Yawayawa

OUT: 11
Odogwu (sale), Beckett (Glous), Povoas (Coventry), Tresidder (Rotherham Titans), Douglas, Farnworth, Galletly, Hogan, Murrin, Nairn, Priestley-Nangle.


Academy
Academy Head Coach/forwards Coach: Brett Deacon
Academy Backs Coach: Anthony Allen

[formerly known as Sam]

Catterick would be a useful addition covering 10 and 15.

[Geordie]

Watching Leicester this season really reminds me of Irish under Tom Coventry (obviously opposite ends of the table aside). Far too lateral, not enough heavy ball carriers in the pack and real capitulations away from home. Such a shame as Leicester have gone too far away from their strengths. I know evolution is good but I think it shows (and this was true of Coventry as well) a real naivety about the English game, which is surprising from Mauger as he played here for three or four seasons.

That's what happens when the gold train of the Falcons academy has been cut off...

Cut off LOL

Signed McGuigan and Barrow.

Also signed this season to be announced Harris and Catterick.... (Shouldn't of said that).

Ah we let you have them as we knew better replacements were coming through

[Geordie]

Catterick would be a useful addition covering 10 and 15.

If he can stay fit absolutely...and he's out of contract in June with no mention of contract renewals yet...

[formerly known as Sam]

Catterick would be a useful addition covering 10 and 15.

If he can stay fit absolutely...and he's out of contract in June with no mention of contract renewals yet...

The ability to stay fit for any length of time has never been a prerequisite for joining Tigers. Quite the opposite.

[LondonTiger]

We will break them if they arrive whole, so may as well arrive broken already.

[formerly known as Sam]

We will break them if they arrive whole, so may as well arrive broken already.

They'll be spending plenty of time with the medical team. Might as well get to know them from the start of their time at the club.

[Welly]

Watching Leicester this season really reminds me of Irish under Tom Coventry (obviously opposite ends of the table aside). Far too lateral, not enough heavy ball carriers in the pack and real capitulations away from home. Such a shame as Leicester have gone too far away from their strengths. I know evolution is good but I think it shows (and this was true of Coventry as well) a real naivety about the English game, which is surprising from Mauger as he played here for three or four seasons.

That's what happens when the gold train of the Falcons academy has been cut off...

Cut off LOL

Signed McGuigan and Barrow.

Also signed this season to be announced Harris and Catterick.... (Shouldn't of said that).

Ah we let you have them as we knew better replacements were coming through

Already in talks with Hammersley and Kilbridge for next season.

And talking to Welsh this season.

[Geordie]

Catterick would be a useful addition covering 10 and 15.

If he can stay fit absolutely...and he's out of contract in June with no mention of contract renewals yet...

The ability to stay fit for any length of time has never been a prerequisite for joining Tigers. Quite the opposite.

[eirebilly]

What are Neil Back, Lewis Moody and Martin Johnson up to these days?
Any one of them would bring a bit of the old Leicester pride back to the squad.

[formerly known as Sam]

Don't think any of them will be coming back. Moody not really the coaching type, Johnno doesn't want the hassle and Back didn't leave on great terms when he didn't get the DOR job ahead of Cockers.

Brett Deacon is the current defence coach and he was a proper Tigers on the pitch. If he can't get them to play hard nosed and aggressive something needs to be changed in a big way.

[eirebilly]

Sam, as a Munster fan, I love to hate Leicester (I mean that with the greatest respect). That said, it pains me to not see that same old steely determination in the squad that was such a trademark of the Tigers.

[formerly known as Sam]

Cheers Billy. It was good to see Munster back firing this year. Really enjoyed the game at WR, the one in Thomond not as much as the year before.

[doctor_grey]

Don't think any of them will be coming back. Moody not really the coaching type, Johnno doesn't want the hassle and Back didn't leave on great terms when he didn't get the DOR job ahead of Cockers.

Brett Deacon is the current defence coach and he was a proper Tigers on the pitch. If he can't get them to play hard nosed and aggressive something needs to be changed in a big way.

The players?

[king_carlos]

Don't think any of them will be coming back. Moody not really the coaching type, Johnno doesn't want the hassle and Back didn't leave on great terms when he didn't get the DOR job ahead of Cockers.

Brett Deacon is the current defence coach and he was a proper Tigers on the pitch. If he can't get them to play hard nosed and aggressive something needs to be changed in a big way.

The players?

The issues start in the board room and slide down from there, doc.

Deano would be a good appointment to get a mix of new ideas, someone who knows the club but someone who will talk franklye  about longstanding issues off the pitch.

As for the players, the bulk of the squad I actually don't think we can do better than within our financial means.

The back row impact against big teams has been non existant. An 8 is needed and if the club aren't comfortable with Evans starting big games yet an experienced 7 too. I'm happy with O'Connor as 7/8 cover behind a top 8 and Evans at 7. If whoever's in charge wants Evans as understudy then a strong signing is needed there - Brussow?

The big question for me after that is whether Tom Youngs can halt his slide in form. The guy has had many injuries and the captaincy is weighing heavily on him. The best choice for Youngs and the club would be for Slater to named captain again now. Then Tom can try to rediscover his form with some pressure off his shoulders - which I really hope he can.

Fly half obviously needs sorting for next season too with Williams leaving.

Not to mention the lack of centre depth (Mermoz?), a tight head who can genuinely rotate with Cole (Ducalon?), a full back to replace Tait (??).

[formerly known as Sam]

Don't think any of them will be coming back. Moody not really the coaching type, Johnno doesn't want the hassle and Back didn't leave on great terms when he didn't get the DOR job ahead of Cockers.

Brett Deacon is the current defence coach and he was a proper Tigers on the pitch. If he can't get them to play hard nosed and aggressive something needs to be changed in a big way.

The players?

Some of. The players were good enough to get us to a semi final and a playoff spot last season. I think that we need to improve I'm certain areas but in the main the squad is performing less than the sum of their parts. The off field structure needs work more in order for us get what we want from the on field contributors. 

Having said that a quality 10 and utility/15 need to be found and if we can replace BOC with a horrible gritty openside to mentor Evans that would help. I'd also ditch Fitzgerald and either sign another enforcer or use Williams to cover lock and sign another unit for the backrow. Kalamafoni is already inbound.

[doctor_grey]

I would presume a healthy Toomua could fill in at 10 if needed. He has played there before, but is a better 12.

It is rather hard to believe teams like ours would have been completely on-board with raising the salary cap if neither cold meet it consistently.

[formerly known as Sam]

I'm sure we have money to spend but how much will depend on what we do off the field as we are trying to undertake multiple projects. That might effect our spending ability in the short term though we are always announcing new sponsors...

Toomua can play 10 but it's not his preference and he's not a renowned points kicker. A controlling ten with a creative 12 was what we deployed in our glory days and I'd like to see us return to that. Ford is continually mentioned and that'd be great but wouldn't sort our kicking issues unless we sign a 15 that can kick or convert Burns (which I'd like to see).

[Welly]

Anyone else still depressed.

[Geordie]

What has happened to O'Conner. When he first signed it was nothing but glowing reports and a possible England spot?

Whats happening with Thacker?

Wheres all the kids coming through. Tigers ALWAYS had a conveyor belt of talent coming through (aside from the falcons ) where are they?

Get through this season,bring in a new coaching team...and start again.

[Welly]

O'Connor is injured. Not sold on him but he is alright.

Thacker was on the bench last week.

Youngsters Evans and Worrth have been getting game time. (Would start Worth over Tait), Charlie Thacker made his AP debut v Wasps. Catchpole who looked good v Saracens in 2016 is out for the season. The rest prob not ready.

[formerly known as Sam]

The kids coming through have been impeded in prior years by an academy system that was more interested in where they were schooled as opposed to how talented they were. Thankfully that has been overhauled. The player development also took a back seat over the the Matt O'Connor years as he was more in favour of selecting experience wherever possible. Since he left we have increased the number of academy graduates making appearances in the first team although we lost a few from the generation before (not all O'Connor's fault).

Brendon O'Connor is a very good link player. He's a little bit average when it comes to being a defensive openside. He can make dominant hits and get turnovers at the breakdown but it's not anywhere nearly as often as we'd like to see or frankly as many as we need at present. I think we may look to swap him out for someone more suited to the club in the summer. 

Thacker remains the second choice hooker. Debate about him continues.

[king_carlos]

I'd say that Thacker is third choice hooker behind McGuigan now. It's a close call but McGuigan has been getting more game time when on the bench, it seems the coaches prefer him. Personally I agree because I think McGuigan can improve into the better hooker of the two, if not the better player.

A fair few fans have been overly harsh on McGuigan IMO since the rumours of Harry T leaving started. Many took out their (deserved) frustration at the possibility of Thacker leaving for more game time on McGuigan which wasn't fair. He hasn't been as good for Tigers as he was for Falcons but he's a young player, settling at a new club and personally I think he'll come good.

Thacker needs to be given a position. When he's played his work in open play has been as good as last season. His throwing has been slightly less consistent but still the best of our hookers. As such it must realistically be his scrummaging that's putting the coaches off. If that's the case then give the lad a go at openside. He's shown enough in open play to deserve the chance there.

[HongKongCherry]

Anyone else still depressed.

You've been spending too much time on Shedweb Welly. All that melancholy has rubbed off on to you

[formerly known as Sam]

McGuigan was only on the bench whilst Harry had a knock when Harry was fit he was back on the bench. McGuigan has a lot of potential but is struggling to make an impact. That isn't helped by Thacker being a firecracker in open play and working hard on his scrum work. Currently Thacker is just better.

I'd like to see Thacker move to 7 and compete with Evans whilst we sign a horrible and experienced hooker to give us more options up front but I don't think the coaches are thinking that.

[formerly known as Sam]

Ed Slater suspended for two weeks by the club for striking an opponent in the first half against Glasgow. He was one of the few who looked like the loss was a personal affront. I'm guessing this is the club trying to stop him missing AP games by getting in before a citing panel.

[jimbopip]

May I just extend a HUGE BIG THANKYOU to all the Tiggers fans who were there on Saturday. You were excellent. Everything about the club was impressive.
Apart from the display on the field obviously.
In the old days Ed Slater would be the only one not being punished this week!

[formerly known as Sam]

May I just extend a HUGE BIG THANKYOU to all the Tiggers fans who were there on Saturday. You were excellent. Everything about the club was impressive.
Apart from the display on the field obviously.
In the old days Ed Slater would be the only one not being punished this week!

Glad you enjoyed your visit. Hopefully we can welcome you back again when we are less awful.

I guess that Big Ed is probably being given a week off to rest his knee and wouldn't have played in either LV game. By acting swiftly Tigers stay on the right side of the citing commission. In private the rest of the squad are being told to follow the example of Ed and Genge.

[nathan]

So we are spending right up to the cap then....

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leicester-tigers/story-30083396-detail/story.html

[Exiledinborders]

So we are spending right up to the cap then....

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leicester-tigers/story-30083396-detail/story.html

If you are you are wasting your money. To be honest other than a fit Tuilagi and Cole I cannot think of another player who I would call top class.

[formerly known as Sam]

So we are spending right up to the cap then....

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leicester-tigers/story-30083396-detail/story.html

If you are you are wasting your money. To be honest other than a fit Tuilagi and Cole I cannot think of another player who I would call top class.

Ben Youngs, England's player of the autumn. Matt Toomua the Australian international 10/12.

I think the problem is some players signed good contracts at peak and are now far from that level, e.g. Tom Youngs, Tait and BOC.

[king_carlos]

JPP has looked a class up on his opposite number most the times he's played too. I must say I thought he had less left in the tank than he's shown.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leicester-tigers-hire-consultancy-firm-to-search-the-world-for-new-coaching-structure/story-30086478-detail/story.html

The club have hired the same consultancy firm that advised the RFU to select Eddie Jones as new England coach. Apparently they are going to "search the world" for the best candidate.

I usually view these kind of moves with a lot of skepticism but given how short of fresh ideas the club looks it can't be a bad thing to search outside the usual channels.

[nathan]

So we are spending right up to the cap then....

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leicester-tigers/story-30083396-detail/story.html

If you are you are wasting your money. To be honest other than a fit Tuilagi and Cole I cannot think of another player who I would call top class.

Then you are wrong then. Theres nothing wrong with most of the squad when on form.

[Geordie]

It's keeping your squad FIT that's the problem!!!

[king_carlos]

It's keeping your squad FIT that's the problem!!!  

1. Better depth in key positions. Then the coaches can properly rotate instead of playing what's available and using guys out of position to fill holes, both of which always leads to more injuries.

2. Better facilities. It's no secret that the clubs training facilities have fallen behind our play-off rivals.

[formerly known as Sam]

I've played at Oval Park and the pitches are Poopie. It's amateur hour really. Even the amateur team that play there don't rate them. I have heard a rumour that some senior players have called out the board who had promised to move them to the former Stoneygate site and not yet delivered. Those senior players were keen to get that development moving.

The Tigers squad is actually very good. The problem is that currently we are playing to less than the sum of our parts and have several long term injuries.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Tigers have the core of a great squad. Cole, B Youngs, Veainu, Toomua, Ayerza are fantastic players who'd grace most sides.

The problem that I can see (and I stated this last year), is there have been too many average signings in the pack over the last few seasons. You can only replace quality with with unproven or mediocre players before you start to see a major problem on the pitch.

[Geordie]

I think it comes back to the academy aswell and local kids aswell Sgt.

ALl the strongest Tigers sides have been made of in bulk of locally produced players with a mix of world class foreigners...(something we are trying to employ - is Dean a coincidence?)

In my opinion and as the tigers fans on here have agreed with ...that policy has been put by the wayside for quite a while for whatever reason...

This needs to be reversed and return to that policy.

[formerly known as Sam]

The head of the academy got binned a couple of years back and it was sadly about two years too late. The academy had become only available to private school boys and was over inflated with its own ego. Apparently much of that has now been ditched (as have several of the coaches). New set up with Ant Allen and Brett Deacon heavily involved and overseen by the scout who spotted and signed Goneva in the French Pro2. 

There has been a lot of average but hopefully we are now moving away from that.

[Geordie]

That can only be good for the Tigers!

[Welly]

The academy has produce plenty of fine players

Keeping. Them is the problem.

TBH I'm not sold on Glynn under his watch we lost our two most promising backs. (One might not have been all his fault but still lost out on him).

[HongKongCherry]

Its interesting the article states Mermoz will be one of the most expensive players around, as by that rationale you'd expect him to be a marquee player if he does move to Falcons as the rumour suggests. However, I thought players couldn't be a marquee signing if they came from another Jeff side?

[nathan]

I think the academy is starting to produce decent players again, it's just the exposure to the first team that seems to be the issue. I mean if you look at the age of B. Youngs and Ford when they played in the first team fairly often - we don't have that anymore.

[Welly]

I think the academy is starting to produce decent players again, it's just the exposure to the first team that seems to be the issue. I mean if you look at the age of B. Youngs and Ford when they played in the first team fairly often - we don't have that anymore.

The likes of Purdy, Humphreys and Watson show that the academy was producing talents before.

[Scottrf]

Its interesting the article states Mermoz will be one of the most expensive players around, as by that rationale you'd expect him to be a marquee player if he does move to Falcons as the rumour suggests.  However, I thought players couldn't be a marquee signing if they came from another Jeff side?

He can be an excluded player if the previous club signed him as injury cover.

[formerly known as Sam]

The academy has produce plenty of fine players

Keeping. Them is the problem.

TBH I'm not sold on Glynn under his watch we lost our two most promising backs. (One might not have been all his fault but still lost out on him).

Umaga and Odogwu? Odogwu moved because he wanted to play which isn't really Glynn's fault. Umaga allegedly got a first team wage to leave.

When the player hit 19 and 20 and are deemed to be future first team material then it's over to the DOR to integrate them. Glynn has done his job by identifying them and developing them to that point.

[king_carlos]

What side are people hoping to see for Gloucester on Saturday?

If Ayerza and Barrow are available then I'd happily see them start. Tom Croft is apparently close too.

Oli Bryant is back playing for Rotherham so will hopefully be involved.

Ayerza, Thacker (vc), Bateman, Barrow, Wells, Hamilton, Evans, O'Connor
Harrison (c), Bryant, Brady, C Thacker, Roberts, Yawayawa, Worth

Reps: McGuigan, Cilliers, Betts, Maksymiw, F Tuilagi Jnr, Kitto, Hardwick/Burns, Tait

I'd be very happy with something like that. When a win's so desperately needed I hope a strong tight 5 will be named.

[nathan]

What side are people hoping to see for Gloucester on Saturday?

If Ayerza and Barrow are available then I'd happily see them start. Tom Croft is apparently close too.

Oli Bryant is back playing for Rotherham so will hopefully be involved.

Ayerza, Thacker (vc), Bateman, Barrow, Wells, Hamilton, Evans, O'Connor
Harrison (c), Bryant, Brady, C Thacker, Roberts, Yawayawa, Worth

Reps: McGuigan, Cilliers, Betts, Maksymiw, F Tuilagi Jnr, Kitto, Hardwick/Burns, Tait

I'd be very happy with something like that. When a win's so desperately needed I hope a strong tight 5 will be named.

You mean Gloucester on the 11th? Isn't it the LV Cup first?

[formerly known as Sam]

It's Saints this weekend. Not the fixture we need really. LV or not the fans will not be impressed if Mauger can't get a result. Really we need to rotate and give some of the tired and seemingly useless first teamers a week off. Not sure we can go for that plan and still win which is what we need (losing to Saints at WR  ). Going to be a tough one to gauge.

Ayerza, McGuigan, Betts
Barrow, Wells
Croft, Hamilton, Evans
Kitto, Bryant
Roberts, Thacker
Brady, Worth, Yawayawa 

Bench: Thacker, Bateman, Cilliers, Maksywih (sp?), Tuilagi, Harrison, Hardwick, Smith or Tait.

Maybe need a more experienced forward on the bench but otherwise that team should be ok. Cilliers, Bateman and Harrison on the bench as we can't risk them getting injured but they need some game time.

[king_carlos]

What side are people hoping to see for Gloucester on Saturday?

If Ayerza and Barrow are available then I'd happily see them start. Tom Croft is apparently close too.

Oli Bryant is back playing for Rotherham so will hopefully be involved.

Ayerza, Thacker (vc), Bateman, Barrow, Wells, Hamilton, Evans, O'Connor
Harrison (c), Bryant, Brady, C Thacker, Roberts, Yawayawa, Worth

Reps: McGuigan, Cilliers, Betts, Maksymiw, F Tuilagi Jnr, Kitto, Hardwick/Burns, Tait

I'd be very happy with something like that. When a win's so desperately needed I hope a strong tight 5 will be named.

You mean Gloucester on the 11th? Isn't it the LV Cup first?

Yep. Brainfart there 

[Big]

It's Saints this weekend. Not the fixture we need really. LV or not the fans will not be impressed if Mauger can't get a result. Really we need to rotate and give some of the tired and seemingly useless first teamers a week off. Not sure we can go for that plan and still win which is what we need (losing to Saints at WR  ). Going to be a tough one to gauge.

Ayerza, McGuigan, Betts
Barrow, Wells
Croft, Hamilton, Evans
Kitto, Bryant
Roberts, Thacker
Brady, Worth, Yawayawa 

Bench: Thacker, Bateman, Cilliers, Maksywih (sp?), Tuilagi, Harrison, Hardwick, Smith or Tait.

Maybe need a more experienced forward on the bench but otherwise that team should be ok. Cilliers, Bateman and Harrison on the bench as we can't risk them getting injured but they need some game time.

Honestly, I'd just rotate and not worry about it. If the first team players aren't playing well then it's all the more reason to give the academy/fringe guys a chance. There would be little pressure on them and if they play well they stay in - in my memory that's how it always was at Tigers, if you play better you get picked and the previous first team guys only get back in if/when they sort themselves out and their form merits it. That would be pretty good motivation in my view, and frankly we need motivation more than we need first choice right now - even if it does mean losing to the Stains.

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