South Africa v Ireland, 18 June

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Post by George Carlin on Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:53 pm

First topic message reminder :

South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 4 Sa10        South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 4 Irelan10
SOUTH AFRICA IRELAND
18 June 2016
17:00 SAST (UTC+02)
Emirates Airline Park, Johannesburg 

Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

23 Played 23
16 Won 6
1 Drawn 1
6 Lost 16
442 Points 303

B. Recent Form 

11 June 2016 - DHL Newlands, Cape Town: 20-26 to Ireland

8 November 2014 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 29 – 15 to Ireland 

10 November 2012 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 12 – 16 to South Africa 

6 November 2010 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 21 – 23 to South Africa 

28 November 2009 - Croke Park, Dublin: 15 – 10 to Ireland 

11 November 2006 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 32 – 15 to Ireland 

13 November 2004 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 17 – 12 to Ireland 

19 June 2004 - Newlands, Cape Town: 26 – 17 to South Africa 

C. Teams

SOUTH AFRICA 
South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 4 Spring10

[*]

IRELAND
South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 4 Leprec10
J Payne; A Trimble, R Henshaw, S Olding, C Gilroy; P Jackson, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, T Furlong; D Toner, Q Roux; I Henderson, R Ruddock, J Heaslip.

Replacements: R Strauss, D Kilcoyne, F Bealham, D Ryan, S Reidy, K Marmion, I Madigan, T O'Halloran.


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Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:33 pm

Nerves a plenty now...
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Post by alfie on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:34 pm

Getting very tight...

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Post by RDW on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:35 pm

All been a bit too easy for SA lately - just too much power.

Come on Ireland!!!

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Post by kingraf on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:38 pm

Get Hyped!

Win or lose: this second half is exactly how we should play all the time
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Post by Notch on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:39 pm

Ireland physically not in this last 10 minutes.
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Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:40 pm

Being completely outplayed here. The Boks have come out in the second half and just crushed Ireland.

Ireland have played well but the Boks have been immense.
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Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:40 pm

Blimey SA have fought back hard here,a flurry of tries.

Ireland seem to have tired. A pen would still bring a draw though.

Is the bench the weakness for Ireland right now?

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Post by clivemcl on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:40 pm

Ah Trimble.......

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Post by RDW on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:41 pm

Baws.

Going to be very difficult for Ireland to win this next week I think - they have put absolutely everything into this and can't have much left.

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Post by alfie on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:41 pm

Good grief ! What the devil did they give the Boks at half time ?

I wouldn't have given them a prayer but now it's Ireland needing to salvage things.

Sorry eirebilly I think I hexed your chaps...

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Post by kingraf on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:42 pm

Who the Fu.cks the Duck huh? Elton Jantjies needs to play forever!
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Post by Notch on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:43 pm

Last 20 minutes just goes to show the altitude factor, because Ireland are falling off tackles here where they were knocking guys backwards with 14 men at sea level.
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Post by clivemcl on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:43 pm

In one of the games earlier the ref blew up when play approached an injured player receiving treatment. Didn't happen just before the last SA try. What's the actual protocol in these situations? Refs discretion??

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Post by BigGee on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:46 pm

Ireland just ran out of gas. As already said, the altitude looks like it killed them in the end.

Going to be a tough one next week!¬

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Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:47 pm

Cant grumble at that. Ireland performed very well but in the second half the Boks were special.

That has got to give the Bokke players and fans some encouragement for the final game.

Great game of rugby, massive congrats SA and their fans, quality 40mins of rugby clap
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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:48 pm

Gutted. Just ran out of steam.

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Post by profitius on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:48 pm

BigGee wrote:Ireland just ran out of gas. As already said, the altitude looks like it killed them in the end.


Yup they looked shattered after 50/55 min. Couldn't make a tackle after that.


It will be a sickener for the players to lose that.
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Post by kingraf on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:48 pm

The Lions are so freaking good though. Like Beastly good
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Post by kingraf on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:50 pm

Oh so the Boks didn't play better at all. Good to know then.
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Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:51 pm

They sure did king but the Irish guys are not wrong to point of that altitude took it's toll.

Out of interest did the England Saxons team play at sea level in their 2-0 series win as they seemed to outlast their SA counterparts which would seem impossible at altitude?

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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:52 pm

Disappointed to lose that one but I'm optimistic for next week.We'll have a much stronger bench and a stronger first team.Can't complain about much from Ireland,some excellent performances but the bench didn't really do anything for us.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:52 pm

kingraf wrote:Oh so the Boks didn't play better at all. Good to know then.

Rolling Eyes 

Wise up. Of course they played better in the second half. Ireland also looked knackered during the last 20 minutes.

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Post by Guest on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:53 pm

Congratulations and well played in that 2nd half, SA clap

Heartbreaking. We did really well to get in to such a lead in the 1st half, but ran out of legs in the 2nd.

All to play for next week and I believe we can take series.

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Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:53 pm

kingraf wrote:Oh so the Boks didn't play better at all. Good to know then.

No they did, they were absolutely special in the 2nd half. I don't mind loosing when a team totally under the cosh with everything to lose come out and play that style of rugby. The mistakes Ireland made were as a direct result of pure pressure and speed of the Boks play.

Take a :pint: on me there bud, enjoy the win thumbsup
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Post by Golden on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:54 pm

Joe Joe Joe... that bench should have been emptied at 60 mins. Was so obvious they were knackered.

Can SA start those subs next week or do they require a certain amount of black players in the starting 15?


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Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:54 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Disappointed to lose that one but I'm optimistic for next week.We'll have a much stronger bench and a stronger first team.Can't complain about much from Ireland,some excellent performances but the bench didn't really do anything for us.

The bench seemed the key. For eng against Aussie being able to bring on real quality at 70 mins was a massive factor. Ireland didn't have that but if they will next week then it is game on.

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:55 pm

eirebilly wrote:
kingraf wrote:Oh so the Boks didn't play better at all. Good to know then.

No they did, they were absolutely special in the 2nd half. I don't mind loosing when a team totally under the cosh with everything to lose come out and play that style of rugby. The mistakes Ireland made were as a direct result of pure pressure and speed of the Boks play.

Take a :pint: on me there bud, enjoy the win thumbsup

It was the reverse of last night Billy. There the Saxons boys were just gone and yet seemed to think "ah feck it"and just ran the ball and somehow won it.

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Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:58 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
kingraf wrote:Oh so the Boks didn't play better at all. Good to know then.

No they did, they were absolutely special in the 2nd half. I don't mind loosing when a team totally under the cosh with everything to lose come out and play that style of rugby. The mistakes Ireland made were as a direct result of pure pressure and speed of the Boks play.

Take a :pint: on me there bud, enjoy the win thumbsup

It was the reverse of last night Billy.  There the Saxons boys were just gone and yet seemed to think "ah feck it"and just ran the ball and somehow won it.

I blame you for the loss trebs you bollix Wink
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Post by englandglory4ever on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:00 pm

Gutted about that result. Should get some front line players back next week. Ireland can come back and win the series. I hope so.

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Post by RugbyScribbler on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:02 pm

That was just absolutely heart breaking to watch...

Still, think Ireland have the men and the systems in place to finish off the job!

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Post by Marshes on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:04 pm

Cant be too annoyed at losing that, I actually think it as a very strong performance which just ran out of steam. The Boks in the second brought a lot more precision, and some players who really changed the game, whoever that blonde bulldozing winger was in particular!

No offence to SA fans, but despite that win, I still feel like something is rotten in the state of that team. The first half was a replay of last week, and if I were you I'd be worried which SA team will show up next week, Jekyll? or Hyde?

Special mention for Trimble who I thought was brilliant, and to Furlong and Roux making their first starts, the scrum was really solid today in a way it was not last week.

I am still confident Ireland will win this series, but I think we will be tested again in a similar way next week, and will need to show more composure.

Well done to SA on the turnaround, they really were too much to handle in the last quarter clap clap clap

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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:09 pm

Next week I'd like to see a few changes from week one,Ruddock to start,Murphy on the bench,Furlong to start,not sure who should bench and the 2nd row could go a few ways,Ryan loses out but who should get in.

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Post by Marshes on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:10 pm

Golden wrote:Joe Joe Joe... that bench should have been emptied at 60 mins. Was so obvious they were knackered.

Can SA start those subs next week or do they require a certain amount of black players in the starting 15?

Right? Murray was brilliant to a point, but he was obviously flagging, why have Marmion on the bench if you are going to give him three minutes, how can he ever show he can be trusted?

TOH didn't even come on! Jared Payne obviously put a shift in, but it was a tired tackle on Combrinck for his try. Not giving out blame, but the conditions meant reinforcements were needed earlier

Really needed the force and ideas that fresh legs and minds bring to a pitch if we were to win the game, but Joe's plans have been top notch so far, so I can't gripe too much.

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Post by kingraf on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:16 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:They sure did king but the Irish guys are not wrong to point of that altitude took it's toll.

Out of interest did the England Saxons team play at sea level in their 2-0 series win as they seemed to outlast their SA counterparts which would seem impossible at altitude?

How many of our starting XV play at altitude? I count three. It was hardly a case of Ireland facing Himalayan goat herdsmen. They faded, fair enough. But that's not all that happened.
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Post by Golden on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:17 pm

Marshes wrote:
Golden wrote:Joe Joe Joe... that bench should have been emptied at 60 mins. Was so obvious they were knackered.

Can SA start those subs next week or do they require a certain amount of black players in the starting 15?

Right? Murray was brilliant to a point, but he was obviously flagging, why have Marmion on the bench if you are going to give him three minutes, how can he ever show he can be trusted?

TOH didn't even come on! Jared Payne obviously put a shift in, but it was a tired tackle on Combrinck for his try. Not giving out blame, but the conditions meant reinforcements were needed earlier

Really needed the force and ideas that fresh legs and minds bring to a pitch if we were to win the game, but Joe's plans have been top notch so far, so I can't gripe too much.

Ye if you dont trust them to come on they shouldnt have been on the bench. Felt if we could have gotten a penalty or drop at goal when they came withing 4 we could have held them off but tired minds/bodies lead to the crossing and missed lineout.


Anyway would like to say I thought the Referee this week was very good. Wouldnt mind getting him again.


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Post by Marshes on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:20 pm

kingraf wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:They sure did king but the Irish guys are not wrong to point of that altitude took it's toll.

Out of interest did the England Saxons team play at sea level in their 2-0 series win as they seemed to outlast their SA counterparts which would seem impossible at altitude?

How many of our starting XV play at altitude? I count three. It was hardly a case of Ireland facing Himalayan goat herdsmen. They faded, fair enough. But that's not all that happened.

It was a mix of both, Ireland obviously deteriorated (struggling to get back into the defensive line and dropping off tackles especially), but South Africa grew massively into the second half and played some excellent attacking rugby.

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:30 pm

eirebilly wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
kingraf wrote:Oh so the Boks didn't play better at all. Good to know then.

No they did, they were absolutely special in the 2nd half. I don't mind loosing when a team totally under the cosh with everything to lose come out and play that style of rugby. The mistakes Ireland made were as a direct result of pure pressure and speed of the Boks play.

Take a :pint: on me there bud, enjoy the win thumbsup

It was the reverse of last night Billy.  There the Saxons boys were just gone and yet seemed to think "ah feck it"and just ran the ball and somehow won it.

I blame you for the loss trebs you bollix Wink
it's a fair cop. I dared to be positive Sad

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:32 pm

kingraf wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:They sure did king but the Irish guys are not wrong to point of that altitude took it's toll.

Out of interest did the England Saxons team play at sea level in their 2-0 series win as they seemed to outlast their SA counterparts which would seem impossible at altitude?

How many of our starting XV play at altitude? I count three. It was hardly a case of Ireland facing Himalayan goat herdsmen. They faded, fair enough. But that's not all that happened.
fair enough but would your guys not get a lot more exposure to it in training?

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Post by Artful_Dodger on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:33 pm

Congratulations to the South Africa fans on the board. I'm going to get drunk and convince myself not to retire from being a rugby fan.

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:35 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:Congratulations to the South Africa fans on the board.  I'm going to get drunk and convince myself not to retire from being a rugby fan.

you should not, you have a brilliant team and surely one of the best in Europe.

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Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:36 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:Congratulations to the South Africa fans on the board.  I'm going to get drunk and convince myself not to retire from being a rugby fan.

Don't get this there Dodger. That game (especially SA's play in the second half) is exactly why I love rugby. Gutted Ireland lost but there is no shame in loosing to a team playing under that much pressure. SA turned it on and Ireland simply could not live with them in the end, it was a fantastic match.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:44 pm

Possibly the worst bok performance I've ever seen in the first half, everything went wrong for them. Their relentlessness can be applauded in the second half as it still took them a while to get into their stride. Ireland can still take a lot from this series even if they don't win next week.

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Post by Marshes on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:55 pm

Was great to see Stuart Olding get his runout, he did not look out of place at all.....but Luke Marshall I think should be nailed on for the final exam.

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Post by Alex_Germany on Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:22 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:They sure did king but the Irish guys are not wrong to point of that altitude took it's toll.

Out of interest did the England Saxons team play at sea level in their 2-0 series win as they seemed to outlast their SA counterparts which would seem impossible at altitude?

I think the first match was played at altitude. The Saxons were well ahead, and SA came back strongly at the end.

The second match was at sea level. SA were well ahead, and the Saxons came back strongly to pip them at the end.

Coincidence?

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Post by kingraf on Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:29 pm

New Zealand quite regularly outlast us at altitude. A basic tenet of playing at altitude with the hopes of eliciting a physiological advantage is that you have to be from altitude. Otherwise it just becomes a contest of who loses gas first, which against the all Blacks, we tend to badly lose
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Post by marty2086 on Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:32 pm

Marshes wrote:
kingraf wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:They sure did king but the Irish guys are not wrong to point of that altitude took it's toll.

Out of interest did the England Saxons team play at sea level in their 2-0 series win as they seemed to outlast their SA counterparts which would seem impossible at altitude?

How many of our starting XV play at altitude? I count three. It was hardly a case of Ireland facing Himalayan goat herdsmen. They faded, fair enough. But that's not all that happened.

It was a mix of both, Ireland obviously deteriorated (struggling to get back into the defensive line and dropping off tackles especially), but South Africa grew massively into the second half and played some excellent attacking rugby.

The use of the bench was key for me, I think Ireland should have got fresh legs on earlier as a lot of guys hit a wall and were left out on the pitch

I thought Ireland were unlucky at the breakdown as they were penalised quite a few times for not rolling away when they were cynically being pinned down so they couldn't

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:35 pm

Alex_Germany wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:They sure did king but the Irish guys are not wrong to point of that altitude took it's toll.

Out of interest did the England Saxons team play at sea level in their 2-0 series win as they seemed to outlast their SA counterparts which would seem impossible at altitude?

I think the first match was played at altitude. The Saxons were well ahead, and SA came back strongly at the end.

The second match was at sea level. SA were well ahead, and the Saxons came back strongly to pip them at the end.

Coincidence?
AH, hasn't realised the second was at sea level.

trebellbobaggins

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South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 4 Empty Re: South Africa v Ireland, 18 June

Post by Alex_Germany on Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:48 pm

kingraf wrote:New Zealand quite regularly outlast us at altitude. A basic tenet of playing at altitude with the hopes of eliciting a physiological advantage is that you have to be from altitude. Otherwise it just becomes a contest of who loses gas first, which against the all Blacks, we tend to badly lose

Enhanced lung capacity comes from training, but especially training at altitude.

England once had a training camp in Tenerife, and cyclists (perhaps the most aerobic of all sports) will regularly train at altitude.

I assume players from the southern hemisphere will play the occasional game at altitude in South Africa? They'd perhaps better learn how to pace themselves.

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South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 4 Empty Re: South Africa v Ireland, 18 June

Post by Pot Hale on Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:43 pm

There has to be some factoring in that this was Ireland's 16th test this season and South Africa's 2nd.

Tired minds and tired legs will inevitably take their toll.

Not surprising that SA came back eventually.

The third test will probably go south Africa's way comfortably.

Overall though, in looking at games between Ireland and S Africa since 2000, they've played each other 11 times, 4 in SA and 7 in Ire. SA lead 6-5 on head-to-head. Close enough record in the proper professional era (as far as Ireland are concerned anyway). Prior to 2000, they'd played 13 matches with Ireland winning just once since first match in 1906. Quite a contrast with the professional era.

Roll on next week.

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South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 4 Empty Re: South Africa v Ireland, 18 June

Post by theslosty on Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:28 pm

Pot Hale wrote:There has to be some factoring in that this was Ireland's 16th test this season and South Africa's 2nd.
Might want to think that through again Wink
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South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 4 Empty Re: South Africa v Ireland, 18 June

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