South Africa v Ireland, 18 June

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 2:53 pm

First topic message reminder :

South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 5 Sa10        South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 5 Irelan10
SOUTH AFRICA IRELAND
18 June 2016
17:00 SAST (UTC+02)
Emirates Airline Park, Johannesburg 

Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

23 Played 23
16 Won 6
1 Drawn 1
6 Lost 16
442 Points 303

B. Recent Form 

11 June 2016 - DHL Newlands, Cape Town: 20-26 to Ireland

8 November 2014 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 29 – 15 to Ireland 

10 November 2012 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 12 – 16 to South Africa 

6 November 2010 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 21 – 23 to South Africa 

28 November 2009 - Croke Park, Dublin: 15 – 10 to Ireland 

11 November 2006 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 32 – 15 to Ireland 

13 November 2004 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 17 – 12 to Ireland 

19 June 2004 - Newlands, Cape Town: 26 – 17 to South Africa 

C. Teams

SOUTH AFRICA 
South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 5 Spring10

[*]

IRELAND
South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 5 Leprec10
J Payne; A Trimble, R Henshaw, S Olding, C Gilroy; P Jackson, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, T Furlong; D Toner, Q Roux; I Henderson, R Ruddock, J Heaslip.

Replacements: R Strauss, D Kilcoyne, F Bealham, D Ryan, S Reidy, K Marmion, I Madigan, T O'Halloran.


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Pot Hale on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 7:20 am

theslosty wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:There has to be some factoring in that this was Ireland's 16th test this season and South Africa's 2nd.
Might want to think that through again Wink

Ok I have. And your view is?
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Post by kingraf on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 7:59 am

Alex_Germany wrote:
kingraf wrote:New Zealand quite regularly outlast us at altitude. A basic tenet of playing at altitude with the hopes of eliciting a physiological advantage is that you have to be from altitude. Otherwise it just becomes a contest of who loses gas first, which against the all Blacks, we tend to badly lose

Enhanced lung capacity comes from training, but especially training at altitude.

England once had a training camp in Tenerife, and cyclists (perhaps the most aerobic of all sports) will regularly train at altitude.

I assume players from the southern hemisphere will play the occasional game at altitude in South Africa? They'd perhaps better learn how to pace themselves.

I don't think anyone is denying the fact that training at altitude can improve your fitness I just struggle to see the relevance when 12/15 of the starters ply their trade at sea and the camp was also at sea level?

As for the question of them being able to better pace themselves? Are you suggesting a team 19-3 down is thinking about keeping some in the tank? Down 16 points?
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Post by profitius on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 11:25 am

Kingraf the talk all week was about the advantage SA have playing at altitude and we were seeing statistics etc to back it up. I think yesterday confirmed it. Irelands defence fell apart in the last 20 or 30 min. Either altitude or they drank something dodgy at half time!
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Post by eirebilly on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 11:58 am

Prof, Altitude may have been a factor as well as Schmidt's delay's in substitutions but credit where its due, the Boks made some good attacking changes at halftime and blew Ireland away.

From the get go in the second half the Boks just piled on the pressure, so much so that it would tire any team even if playing at sea level.
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Post by Biltong on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 11:58 am

profitius wrote:Kingraf the talk all week was about the advantage SA have playing at altitude and we were seeing statistics etc to back it up. I think yesterday confirmed it. Irelands defence fell apart in the last 20 or 30 min. Either altitude or they drank something dodgy at half time!

I agree, the natural tendency for SA fans will now be to believe there is hope, all based on a desperation 20 minutes whilst the Irish clearly started dropping tackles.

Twenty minutes of desperation does not erase the rabble the Springboks have been serving up the last 20 months.

Plus considering the "unofficial quota" of 9 players of colour in a matchday 23.

This is not the dawn of Springbok rugby, it is only going to get worse before it might, and I reiterate, it might get better
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Post by theslosty on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 2:55 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
theslosty wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:There has to be some factoring in that this was Ireland's 16th test this season and South Africa's 2nd.
Might want to think that through again Wink

Ok I have.   And your view is?
This is Ireland's 16th test if you go back to the first RWC warm up game against Wales. The Boks have played 9 tests since then (and also played another 3 in the 2015 RC).
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Post by Pot Hale on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 4:44 pm

theslosty wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
theslosty wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:There has to be some factoring in that this was Ireland's 16th test this season and South Africa's 2nd.
Might want to think that through again Wink

Ok I have.   And your view is?
This is Ireland's 16th test if you go back to the first RWC warm up game against Wales. The Boks have played 9 tests since then (and also played another 3 in the 2015 RC).

Yes I am aware of that. My initial statement still stands.
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Post by marty2086 on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 4:52 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
theslosty wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
theslosty wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:There has to be some factoring in that this was Ireland's 16th test this season and South Africa's 2nd.
Might want to think that through again Wink

Ok I have.   And your view is?
This is Ireland's 16th test if you go back to the first RWC warm up game against Wales. The Boks have played 9 tests since then (and also played another 3 in the 2015 RC).

Yes I am aware of that.  My initial statement still stands.

Really? So you count Irelands over a longer period and narrow the window for SA? Shocked Rolling Eyes

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 5:12 pm

I think his point is a continuation of rugby being played

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Post by eirebilly on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 5:18 pm

So lads, do Marshall and Earls come back in for the final test?

Think that Gilroy and Olding did ok but I think that Schmidt will favour Earls and Marshall.
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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 5:24 pm

Yeah definitely,both should get back in,dunno what I want to see in the forwards,I keep changing my mind.Furlong earned a start but Ross offers very little impact off the bench.Probably stick with the first days back five but give Ruddock a start and Murphy on the bench.

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Post by Notch on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 5:29 pm

I think they should both come back in. Stander definitely comes back in, Henderson back to the row.
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Post by eirebilly on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 5:40 pm

Thought that Ruddock had a superb game yesterday, for me he was Irelands best player.
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Post by Golden on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 5:48 pm

Henshaws out so either Olding and Marshall or Marshall, Payne with TOH at 15.

Hope its the former.

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Post by eirebilly on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 5:50 pm

Why is Henshaw out? Hope Schmidt doesn't go for Earls or Payne at 13...
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Post by Sin é on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 6:01 pm

Henshaw is out with a knee injury (he needs cartilage surgery - don't think its a big deal).

I think Schmidt will leave Payne at 15, Marshall at 12, Earls at 13, Gilroy at 11, Olding on bench.

Olding did great yesterday, but I think he lacks a bit of physicaity for the Boks. Everyone else I'd be pretty happy to see him starting at 12.

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Post by eirebilly on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 6:08 pm

I think Ireland need Earls on the wing myself Sin é, his defence and ability to finish off moves is far more valuable there. I would prefer Olding at 12 and Marshall at 13 or vice versa.
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Post by Sin é on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 7:02 pm

I think Earls defence, rucking and experience in the centre was missed in 2nd Test.

I think Olding is a talent, not sure he has the physicality to play against some international teams. I'd prefer to see Marshall there who had a fantastic game in the 1st Test.
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Post by eirebilly on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 7:27 pm

I prefer the familiarity factor. Jackson, Olding, Marshall have all played together many times and I think that brings with it an extra advantage.

I do agree that Olding is not as physical as Marshall at 12 but I don't think that he is too bad. I would put Earls on the wing to cover that SA wing (cant remember his name but he came on in the second half and ran over Irelands defence) as he is a very good last man defender.
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Post by Notch on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 8:32 pm

Earls is certainly a much better defender than Gilroy on the wing. I don't think there is anyone with the positional awareness and defence of Payne who can play 15, never mind the attacking side...

I can't see any other option than Marshall and Olding.
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Post by Golden on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 9:00 pm

Late call up for McFadden on the cards? Very Happy

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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sun 19 Jun 2016, 10:04 pm

Hope to see Olding and Marshall in the midfield.i think we'll win this one . We are far stronger in the maul and it looks like we've sorted the scrum. If we don't kick loosely I don't see where they can hurt us. Our defenders won't tire like it did last weekend and we'll have real impact of our own off the bench.
I'll be expecting to see us kick less and hopefully we start turning our impressive number of turnovers into counter attacks.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 8:06 am

I thought Ireland played poorly and then drifted further off the pace in the final half hour of the game.
McGrath is gassed and at best is a bench option in the final test.
Furlong did well, but mainly in the scrum. Then I think about the fact that Henderson was on one cheek and roux was on the other. Roux did sweet fa for most of the game, henderson would have been a more effective lock. Was the set up to keep the scrum solid worth the costs elsewhere?
Toner and Ruddock almost managed to butcher the try, inept SA tackling and awareness left them of.
Jackson played manfully, but once SA forwards spotted he was mid defensive line they would make easy yards up that channel. The fella doesn't shirk away from making a tackle. But a McCaw, Hooper, Quinlan, POM would protect their outhalf more that this backrow did.
Thought Olding had a poor game - Marshall had a far better performance in the first test and should get the jersey back for the next game.
Henshaw was running around like a headless chicken for a lot of the game.
We didn't use Gilroy elusive running often enough when attacking.

Joe has a lot to answer for that game, but flavour of the months (i) payne at 15 (ii) jackson playing 10 and (iii) olding at 12 (all arguably injury enforced) seems to have people auto-excusing the test match with the altitude card, trying to find an excuse when this is the time for proper criticism.

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Post by rodders on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 9:44 am

Don't agree Ireland played poorly. SA were very poor for 40 min and we controlled the game, as they couldn't deal with our kicking game and our set piece was very solid. The 2 tries we scored were excellent.

After half time a few things happened.

Our players began to fatigue quite badly, in part you would have to assume the altitude had an effect but also after the previous weeks game playing with 14 men and a long season for a lot of players.

Trimble, Murray, McGrath, Toner, Henderson, Payne, Henshaw in particular just looked out on their feet after 60 min.

Secondly SA brought some real impact of the bench and started to build momentum. The began to dominate the collisions and we couldn't get the ball for long periods.

Lastly we went in to the game with a fairly weak bench - in contrast to the previous week the Irish replacements weakened the team significantly and as the boks were getting stronger, we were getting weaker.  

Overall it is very disappointing not to have won the series but before the game I did expect a real bok backlash, surprisingly it only came at half time. I'd have taken a narrow loss before the game looking at the two sides.

The 3rd test is hard to predict. The boks have found a bit of themselves again after being clueless for a test and a half and a lot of Irish players look exhausted. I'm not sure based on this week some of these guys (Trimble, Best, McGrath, Payne etc.) have 80 min in them at this stage of the season.

Ireland traditionally,and it's provincial sides, have historically struggled to maintain intensity over 3 successive weeks - something even Joe hasn't managed to resolve.

We'll need big performances from the likes of Earls, Stander, Cronin, Ross, Dillane, Marshall, Murphy, Ruddock etc. to be in with a shout of winning the series I think. If we do manage it it will be an even greater achievement  now, so in some ways it's good it goes down to a series decider.
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Post by Barney McGrew did it on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 9:48 am

I've never seen Ireland drop off so many straightforward tackles in the last quarter especially I think for the last try. Surely altitude/fitness played some part?! I think Ire will take the next one tho.
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Post by rodders on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 10:01 am

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I've never seen Ireland drop off so many straightforward tackles in the last quarter especially I think for the last try. Surely altitude/fitness played some part?! I think Ire will take the next one tho.

And crucially the guys falling off tackles were players who traditionally a very strong defenders and who previously had been dominating these collisions.

I've no doubt fatigue was part of the issue - but the relative reasons behind the fatigue is the important issue. If it is predominately down to altitude then we should be in a much stronger position next week.

However if the cumulative effect of the long season, plus the efforts of the first test, were a major reason then we are in for a painful 3rd test.

Ireland do have a recent history of capitulation on the 3rd week of tests against top tier opposition -I hope we have something left in the tank as the boks look like they sense blood now.
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Post by marty2086 on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 10:10 am

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I've never seen Ireland drop off so many straightforward tackles in the last quarter especially I think for the last try. Surely altitude/fitness played some part?! I think Ire will take the next one tho.

Some of Jacksons kicking too at the end of the game was poor too after being effective earlier on, between the altitude and getting big guys running at him for so long he had to be shattered


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Post by Notch on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 10:30 am

Actually I think Schmidts tactics were spot on and the reason we were in control of the game- we were shown up when we stopped getting first to rucks, making simple head-on tackles, started making mistakes. I didn't expect the altitude to have that much of an effect, I must admit, but we were on the canvas after about 55 minutes. It was just a question of whether they had enough time to reel us back in at that point.

Now its whether we can recover in time.
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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 10:57 am

There are two reasons why we lost, Ruan Combrink and Warren Whiteley.
Their huge physicality and pace just destroyed the obviously knackered Irish defence. It was either as real stroke of luck or tactical genius on behalf of Alistair Coetzee. It's more than conceivable that he'd have known the Irish guys would have been down and out on the 50 - 60 minute mark and planned to bring on his destroyer.
So take the fatigue from the 14 man effort the previous week, add in the altitude factor and then unveil the bosh merchants.
We had no hope in the end, even when we were still ahead there was a sense of inevitability about the proceedings.

Bring on the 3rd test though. We're playing some great rugby in both the power and skill stakes so I believe we'll still take the test, with crossed fingers of course.

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Post by rodders on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 11:00 am

Pete330v2 wrote:There are two reasons why we lost, Ruan Combrink and Warren Whiteley.
Their huge physicality and pace just destroyed the obviously knackered Irish defence. It was either as real stroke of luck or tactical genius on behalf of Alistair Coetzee. It's more than conceivable that he'd have known the Irish guys would have been down and out on the 50 - 60 minute mark and planned to bring on his destroyer.
So take the fatigue from the 14 man effort the previous week, add in the altitude factor and then unveil the bosh merchants.
We had no hope in the end, even when we were still ahead there was a sense of inevitability about the proceedings.

Bring on the 3rd test though. We're playing some great rugby in both the power and skill stakes so I believe we'll still take the test, with crossed fingers of course.

Great summary of events.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 11:02 am

A combination of mental and physical fatigue - the mental bit ("are we really going to win a series in South Africa??????") is probably as much to blame as the altitude.

Mental fragility - it bloody well haunts everything named 'Irish'.  You never know if we're close to breaking through that road block or on our way to a collision of monumental proportions again.  

The next game will tell us.  We have to stop thinking of 'firsts' and those damn records that we keep trying to break.... stop thinking about them and just play through them.  

If we drop our heads on this one now and into the final game, then we're up for a usual total implosion after so heroic a beginning.

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Post by rodders on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 11:20 am

SecretFly wrote:A combination of mental and physical fatigue - the mental bit ("are we really going to win a series in South Africa??????") is probably as much to blame as the altitude.

I don't believe it. Mental fragility didn't cause the likes of Trimble and Murray to fall off tackles, Jackson to get bounced over -the last 30 min was completely out of character for quite a number of players.

A combination of improved SA ball retention and physical fatigue was clearly the issue.

You are talking about players who defended a man down for an hour for 60 min the previous week to grind out a historic win - they didn't suddenly just choke.

To suggest that mental fragility was an issue is pretty insulting - keep those accusations for Shane Lowry and the soccer boys Wink
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 11:27 am

I do.

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 11:33 am

rodders wrote:A combination of improved SA ball retention and physical fatigue was clearly the issue.

You are talking about players who defended a man down for an hour for 60 min the previous week to grind out a historic win - they didn't suddenly just choke.

To suggest that mental fragility was an issue is pretty insulting - keep those accusations for Shane Lowry and the soccer boys Wink

Or the 7s boys who lost to Spain to miss out on the Olympics

SAs ball retention is probably helped to by Ireland not being as physical due to exhaustion though saying that Madigan came on and got sent flying backwards Rolling Eyes

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Post by rodders on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 11:45 am

marty2086 wrote:
rodders wrote:A combination of improved SA ball retention and physical fatigue was clearly the issue.

You are talking about players who defended a man down for an hour for 60 min the previous week to grind out a historic win - they didn't suddenly just choke.

To suggest that mental fragility was an issue is pretty insulting - keep those accusations for Shane Lowry and the soccer boys Wink

Or the 7s boys who lost to Spain to miss out on the Olympics

SAs ball retention is probably helped to by Ireland not being as physical due to exhaustion though saying that Madigan came on and got sent flying backwards Rolling Eyes

Exactly why I single out the likes of Murray and Trimble - it is out of character for those guys to fall off tackles.

If it was only the likes of Madigan you could blame the selection but we are talking about players who've dominated collisions for 3 * 40 minute quarters and then suddenly in the 4th start falling off tackles.There is nothing mental about that. There was far more mental pressure on the side last week, having never won on SA soil - this was essentially a free shot.

We did try and run down the clock and sit on the lead but I do genuinely think that we were starting to tire badly 5 minutes in to the second half.

I think if there was a psychological effect, it was on SA - they wanted it more but that is understandable as they were staring down a barrel. You have to give them a lot of credit.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 12:11 pm

"I think if there was a psychological effect, it was on SA - they wanted it more but that is understandable as they were staring down a barrel. You have to give them a lot of credit."

Absolutely, going in after that first half the SA players could have either capitulated and given us more of the same or galvanized and be of the 'not on our turf' mentality.
The Irish guys won't go out next week with anything less than that same, must win mentality. They have to or it could be a long 80 minutes to watch.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 12:15 pm

Of course it's mental when you're just 30 or so minutes away from a series victory in South Africa (after that 14 man game and now at altitude).  Of course that game becomes mental towards the end game.

Ireland let New Zealand off the hook and they let South Africa off the hoof.  It's unfortunate.  Both New Zealand and South Africa are good enough to be let off the hook.  But that's the story of Ireland so many times - even against sides like England and Wales in the past.  

Nerves and panic playing their part alongside altitude. Third time lucky... let's hope.

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Post by Sin é on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 12:32 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:There are two reasons why we lost, Ruan Combrink and Warren Whiteley.
Their huge physicality and pace just destroyed the obviously knackered Irish defence. It was either as real stroke of luck or tactical genius on behalf of Alistair Coetzee. It's more than conceivable that he'd have known the Irish guys would have been down and out on the 50 - 60 minute mark and planned to bring on his destroyer.
So take the fatigue from the 14 man effort the previous week, add in the altitude factor and then unveil the bosh merchants.
We had no hope in the end, even when we were still ahead there was a sense of inevitability about the proceedings.

Bring on the 3rd test though. We're playing some great rugby in both the power and skill stakes so I believe we'll still take the test, with crossed fingers of course.

Think it Coetzee being tactical. All his subs play for the Lions and live at altitude. They also have the experience of seeing what happens to teams who are not used to playing at altitude.
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Post by Sin é on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 12:37 pm

rodders wrote:
SecretFly wrote:A combination of mental and physical fatigue - the mental bit ("are we really going to win a series in South Africa??????") is probably as much to blame as the altitude.

I don't believe it. Mental fragility didn't cause the likes of Trimble and Murray to fall off tackles, Jackson to get bounced over -the last 30 min was completely out of character for quite a number of players.

A combination of improved SA ball retention and physical fatigue was clearly the issue.

You are talking about players who defended a man down for an hour for 60 min the previous week to grind out a historic win - they didn't suddenly just choke.

To suggest that mental fragility was an issue is pretty insulting - keep those accusations for Shane Lowry and the soccer boys Wink

and Rory McIlroy who didn't even make the cut Wink



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Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 12:39 pm

That's insulting to Rory!....

Wink

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Post by rodders on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 1:10 pm

Lets hope the u-20s (and the NI soccer boys) don't catch the Irish choker bug too then Smile
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Post by kingraf on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 1:30 pm

A friend of mine who does "promotions" (inverted commas because I still don't understand what promotions actually means) at an upmarket Jozi nightclub told me that the Boks went absolutely to town on Saturday night after the win. As in "bottle after bottle. drinking till I overdose" to town. Little dissappointing because it's only 1-1, but hey. I've never come back from 19-3 at Ellis Park.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 1:33 pm

Of course it's mental when you're just 30 or so minutes away from a series victory in South Africa (after that 14 man game and now at altitude).  Of course that game becomes mental towards the end game.

Ireland let New Zealand off the hook and they let South Africa off the hook.  It's unfortunate.  Both New Zealand and South Africa are good enough to be let off the hook.  But that's the story of Ireland so many times - even against sides like England and Wales in the past.  

Nerves and panic playing their part alongside altitude.  Third time lucky... let's hope.


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Post by marty2086 on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 1:43 pm

kingraf wrote:A friend of mine who does "promotions" (inverted commas because I still don't understand what promotions actually means) at an upmarket Jozi nightclub told me that the Boks went absolutely to town on Saturday night after the win. As in "bottle after bottle. drinking till I overdose" to town.  Little dissappointing because it's only 1-1, but hey. I've never come back from 19-3 at Ellis Park.

At altitude that's some hangover ahead, hopefully a week long one.

And promotions is handing out flyers, chatting up pretty girls and trying to get them to their club rather than them going somewhere else

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Post by kingraf on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 1:48 pm

marty2086 wrote:
kingraf wrote:A friend of mine who does "promotions" (inverted commas because I still don't understand what promotions actually means) at an upmarket Jozi nightclub told me that the Boks went absolutely to town on Saturday night after the win. As in "bottle after bottle. drinking till I overdose" to town.  Little dissappointing because it's only 1-1, but hey. I've never come back from 19-3 at Ellis Park.

At altitude that's some hangover ahead, hopefully a week long one.

And promotions is handing out flyers, chatting up pretty girls and trying to get them to their club rather than them going somewhere else

Cheers. I only ever see her holding champagne which I sadly cannot afford. The Boks could though. and they could keep them coming
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Post by rodders on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 1:57 pm

marty2086 wrote:
kingraf wrote:A friend of mine who does "promotions" (inverted commas because I still don't understand what promotions actually means) at an upmarket Jozi nightclub told me that the Boks went absolutely to town on Saturday night after the win. As in "bottle after bottle. drinking till I overdose" to town.  Little dissappointing because it's only 1-1, but hey. I've never come back from 19-3 at Ellis Park.

At altitude that's some hangover ahead, hopefully a week long one.

And promotions is handing out flyers, chatting up pretty girls and trying to get them to their club rather than them going somewhere else

Don't trust him Marty, I bet he wants this getting back to the Ireland camp.

The boks probably spent the night in Universal soldier style cryotherapy chambers.
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Post by marty2086 on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 2:04 pm

rodders wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
kingraf wrote:A friend of mine who does "promotions" (inverted commas because I still don't understand what promotions actually means) at an upmarket Jozi nightclub told me that the Boks went absolutely to town on Saturday night after the win. As in "bottle after bottle. drinking till I overdose" to town.  Little dissappointing because it's only 1-1, but hey. I've never come back from 19-3 at Ellis Park.

At altitude that's some hangover ahead, hopefully a week long one.

And promotions is handing out flyers, chatting up pretty girls and trying to get them to their club rather than them going somewhere else

Don't trust him Marty, I bet he wants this getting back to the Ireland camp.

The boks probably spent the night in Universal soldier style cryotherapy chambers.

I just hope the Irish boys did and have been wrapped in cotton wool since

Though I did see they have been swimming in Port Elizabeth

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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 4:34 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
theslosty wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
theslosty wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:There has to be some factoring in that this was Ireland's 16th test this season and South Africa's 2nd.
Might want to think that through again Wink

Ok I have.   And your view is?
This is Ireland's 16th test if you go back to the first RWC warm up game against Wales. The Boks have played 9 tests since then (and also played another 3 in the 2015 RC).

Yes I am aware of that.  My initial statement still stands.

Really? So you count Irelands over a longer period and narrow the window for SA? Shocked Rolling Eyes

I was counting them by season. SA's season ended after RWC. Their new season started with Super Rugby in Jan/February.
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Post by The Great Aukster on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 10:48 pm

It's really surprising that no-one is calling for Matt Healy? Is Joe Connactphobic?

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Post by rodders on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 10:07 am

The Great Aukster wrote:It's really surprising that no-one is calling for Matt Healy? Is Joe Connactphobic?

Actually Aukster I would consider resting Trimble, who has done a mammoth amount of work, and starting Earls and Healy on the wings.

That said I think the back 3 we started the first test is the strongest so it depends on Trimble and Payne's fitness/recovery.

I have a suspicion he will pick the following back line:-

15 O'Halloran
14 Earls
13 Payne
12 Marshall
11 Healy
10 Jackson
9 Murray

20. Reddan 21. Madigan 23. Olding
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