South Africa v Ireland, 18 June

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 2:53 pm

First topic message reminder :

South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 2 Sa10        South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 2 Irelan10
SOUTH AFRICA IRELAND
18 June 2016
17:00 SAST (UTC+02)
Emirates Airline Park, Johannesburg 

Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

23 Played 23
16 Won 6
1 Drawn 1
6 Lost 16
442 Points 303

B. Recent Form 

11 June 2016 - DHL Newlands, Cape Town: 20-26 to Ireland

8 November 2014 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 29 – 15 to Ireland 

10 November 2012 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 12 – 16 to South Africa 

6 November 2010 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 21 – 23 to South Africa 

28 November 2009 - Croke Park, Dublin: 15 – 10 to Ireland 

11 November 2006 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 32 – 15 to Ireland 

13 November 2004 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 17 – 12 to Ireland 

19 June 2004 - Newlands, Cape Town: 26 – 17 to South Africa 

C. Teams

SOUTH AFRICA 
South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 2 Spring10

[*]

IRELAND
South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 2 Leprec10
J Payne; A Trimble, R Henshaw, S Olding, C Gilroy; P Jackson, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, T Furlong; D Toner, Q Roux; I Henderson, R Ruddock, J Heaslip.

Replacements: R Strauss, D Kilcoyne, F Bealham, D Ryan, S Reidy, K Marmion, I Madigan, T O'Halloran.


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Hazel Sapling on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 2:13 pm

Shame for Marshall, is he injured? Is Roux the token Saffa in the pack?

Looks a good side. Ross dropped altogether surprised me but Bealham can do a job. Is that 3 changes and another enforced?

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Post by the-goon on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 2:39 pm

A horses for courses selection if there ever was one. Not to sure what the plan is, but 1 thing is for certain is that there is one.

Some decline...

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Post by Notch on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 2:40 pm

Pot Hale wrote:So what changes are likely to happen with all this energy conservation and saving some quality resources for the final test?

Same starting front row?  
Toner keeps going and gets Roux or Dillane.
Hendo to 6 and Ruddock at 7
Duracell Jamie at 8
Murray and Jackson as you were
Olding for Marshall
All-Ulster back three with Gilroy ousting/resting Earls to partner Payne and Trimble.

Pretty spot on predictions! Only the call at tighthead missed out on.
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Post by marty2086 on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 3:34 pm

the-goon wrote:A horses for courses selection if there ever was one. Not to sure what the plan is, but 1 thing is for certain is that there is one.

Some decline...

Surely a kicking game will be used, with that back three they have the pace to and ability to give a proper kick chase and Olding and Jackson can help with the supply.

I think you'll see plenty going Mvovos way as he doesn't seem too sure under the high ball, plenty will go to the corners and Ireland will go after the lineout and really put pressure on SA there especially in their own half as they have a backrow loaded with real lineout options

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Post by the-goon on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 3:58 pm

marty2086 wrote:
the-goon wrote:A horses for courses selection if there ever was one. Not to sure what the plan is, but 1 thing is for certain is that there is one.

Some decline...

Surely a kicking game will be used, with that back three they have the pace to and ability to give a proper kick chase and Olding and Jackson can help with the supply.

I think you'll see plenty going Mvovos way as he doesn't seem too sure under the high ball, plenty will go to the corners and Ireland will go after the lineout and really put pressure on SA there especially in their own half as they have a backrow loaded with real lineout options

Yeah, fair point. Also looks like we will want to attack the outside channels again with ball in hand. Getting Henderson running at backs could be quite rewarding.

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Post by rodders on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 4:07 pm

I think this is a far tougher game - the springboks won't be looking to expand their game but to win by any means.

When you factor in the altitude and the fact they will be fresher then the boks will be heavy favorites irrespective of what happened last week.

Bringing in fresh, hungry guys is a good idea because we'll need them but I have a feeling this will come down to the third test.
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Post by Golden on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 4:42 pm

marty2086 wrote:
the-goon wrote:A horses for courses selection if there ever was one. Not to sure what the plan is, but 1 thing is for certain is that there is one.

Some decline...

Surely a kicking game will be used, with that back three they have the pace to and ability to give a proper kick chase and Olding and Jackson can help with the supply.

I think you'll see plenty going Mvovos way as he doesn't seem too sure under the high ball, plenty will go to the corners and Ireland will go after the lineout and really put pressure on SA there especially in their own half as they have a backrow loaded with real lineout options


Very easy to be over hitting their kicks at that altitude level. Furlong, Olding and Gilroy in the team with Marmion and TOH on the bench would make me think well see a lot of running rugby. 

Is Murphy injured? I can understand him been rotated out of the team but would have thought he would make the bench after last week.

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Post by marty2086 on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 4:44 pm

rodders wrote:I think this is a far tougher game - the springboks won't be looking to expand their game but to win by any means.

When you factor in the altitude and the fact they will be fresher then the boks will be heavy favorites irrespective of what happened last week.

Bringing in fresh, hungry guys is a good idea because we'll need them but I have a feeling this will come down to the third test.

rodders that's why I think the kicking game is crucial, if you are playing territory and coming out on top SA are relying on running over guys and gaining the odd yard here and their from their own half

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Post by marty2086 on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 4:47 pm

Golden wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
the-goon wrote:A horses for courses selection if there ever was one. Not to sure what the plan is, but 1 thing is for certain is that there is one.

Some decline...

Surely a kicking game will be used, with that back three they have the pace to and ability to give a proper kick chase and Olding and Jackson can help with the supply.

I think you'll see plenty going Mvovos way as he doesn't seem too sure under the high ball, plenty will go to the corners and Ireland will go after the lineout and really put pressure on SA there especially in their own half as they have a backrow loaded with real lineout options


Very easy to be over hitting their kicks at that altitude level. Furlong, Olding and Gilroy in the team with Marmion and TOH on the bench would make me think well see a lot of running rugby. 

Is Murphy injured? I can understand him been rotated out of the team but would have thought he would make the bench after last week.

You could be right but at altitude you are running the risk of guys not being fully acclimatised and hitting a wall rather quickly in more way than one, with the kicking game the ball does a lot of the work for you

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Post by rodders on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 4:51 pm

marty2086 wrote:
rodders wrote:I think this is a far tougher game - the springboks won't be looking to expand their game but to win by any means.

When you factor in the altitude and the fact they will be fresher then the boks will be heavy favorites irrespective of what happened last week.

Bringing in fresh, hungry guys is a good idea because we'll need them but I have a feeling this will come down to the third test.

rodders that's why I think the kicking game is crucial, if you are playing territory and coming out on top SA are relying on running over guys and gaining the odd yard here and their from their own half

Yeah, we kicked a fair bit last week too which really caught the SA defensive line out. La Roux isn't great defensively either. It might be the reason McCloskey was left out as Schmidt maybe wanted a kicking option at 12 - I remember being surprised he took both Olding and Marshall.

I don't think the bench looks is strong this week to be honest.

No Cronin or Dillane and no one in the backs to bring much impact either.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 4:56 pm

Like Golden, I think it's a run and stretch team....perhaps having spotted sufficient weaknesses in SA with 14 men that they hope now to exploit with 15.
It was pointed how adventurous the Irish tried to be at times even with 14.  It seems they've come to carry on their latter 6N increased creativity but the plan was stalled when Stander went off.  

But I guess the reality is that Schmidt will try to include variety to keep the new-coach SA guessing and trying to adapt.  So kicking behind or for territory, yeah.  But I think running it will be a big factor.

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Post by carpet baboon on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 4:56 pm

I think with Murphy especially it could be a fitness thing. He and Marshall covered a massive amount of ground in the first test, if they weren't fully recovered playing them at altitude would have seen them tire extremely quickly.
It's ultan I can't see why he is dropped. Injury?

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 4:58 pm

I am a massive Earls fan but I am also very excited to see Gilroy given a chance. Think he could cause the Boks loads of issues if he gets into space.

Another good balanced team selection.
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Post by rodders on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 5:09 pm

eirebilly wrote:I am a massive Earls fan ..... <some other stuff>

You're obsessed with Munster Billser angel
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Post by eirebilly on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 5:12 pm

rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I am a massive Earls fan ..... <some other stuff>

You're obsessed with Munster Billser angel

Munster above all rodders, Schmidt out and Kidney back Very Happy
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Post by SecretFly on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 5:13 pm

carpet baboon wrote:I think with Murphy especially it could be a fitness thing. He and Marshall covered a massive amount of ground in the first test, if they weren't fully recovered playing them at altitude would have seen them tire extremely quickly.
It's ultan I can't see why he is dropped. Injury?

Some insurance players kept back for a third shot if this one doesn't come off?

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 5:22 pm

Just in case some of you guys don't know. Terrible news about a British MP Jo Cox who was murdered today.

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 5:30 pm

Simply terrible news Fly, 41 with young kids. Sad days.
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Post by Notch on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 6:08 pm

It's not just incredibly sad to see someone who has worked hard to make the world better killed when they are just doing their job, its frightening news- the whole country is on edge right now, there's a lot of fear and anger swirling around.
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Post by carpet baboon on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 7:38 pm

I didn't know her and never met her, but it's devastated me. And reading what some of the right wing nut jobs are already saying about it being a stunt. I'm absolutely sickened by it all.
What kind of country is this

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Post by George Carlin on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 8:13 pm

Feels like the end of days, doesn't it.

I am reminded that one of the reasons I like living here is the relative lack of crime.
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Post by Pot Hale on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 9:37 pm

Sad. Just very sad.

This will only serve to polarise things further.
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Post by aucklandlaurie on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 10:21 pm

carpet baboon wrote:I didn't know her and never met her, but it's devastated me. And reading what some of the right wing nut jobs are already saying about it being a stunt. I'm absolutely sickened by it all.
What kind of country is this

Not justifying this act, but there are a lot worse Countries than Britain.

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 10:37 pm


This test should differ from last weeks affair, altitude and a Kiwi referee.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 10:41 pm

...and 15 Irish players. Wink............................ hopefully!!!

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 10:51 pm


Is it true that Ireland were trying to save on the laundry bill?

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 10:55 pm

I'm not sure about that! Losing Stander only 23 minutes in...hmmmm................. laundry bill tally rises dramatically.

Whistle


But you're right about the altitude being a major factor this time round. Not so sure about the Kiwi referee working to the favour of SA though.



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Post by aucklandlaurie on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 11:05 pm


I don't think he would "favour" anyone, but our referees can be a little different. Jackson will probably let more things go than other refs.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 11:14 pm

Well, that's what I meant.  He'd be more in tune with a South African side - or maybe the better way to word it is that they'd be expected to be more in tune with him.  

But I have a feeling Ireland might at least attempt to play a game that might suit his style.  The Kiwi Joe will certainly have done all his homework on him and we've had him a few times - though the stats guys here will know the details better..

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 12:43 am


Actually interesting point, Joe Schmidt would have been coaching the ITM Bay of Plenty side when Glen Jackson was playing for them.

Maybe Kiwi Joe doesn't have to do much homework at all.


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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 1:42 am

Seems like Schmidt will at least be seeing out his contract with IRFU:

StillHere420176N's

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 9:37 am

So, Quinn Roux - tell me more.

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Post by Notch on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 10:18 am

LondonTiger wrote:So, Quinn Roux - tell me more.

South African born lock, signed by Schmidt for Leinster back in the day. Now with Connacht and residency qualified but is in and out of the team there and didn't make the 23 for the Pro12 final. A bit of a surprise pick for this tour, perfect example of Schmidts tendency to see something in a player that can be coached to fulfil a very specific role and back them against received wisdom and the form book. There were high hopes for him when he came over to Ireland at first but his career stalled due to persistent injury problems not allowing him to build up a head of steam and get some form together. Rated as a very good scrummager and lineout forward, suggestions he's been selected due to his ability to scrummage really well as a tight head lock. Possibly selected for this test due to the decision to rest Mike Ross- is he there to help Tadhg Furlong at tight head deal with the occassion?
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Post by Pot Hale on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 10:21 am

LondonTiger wrote:So, Quinn Roux - tell me more.

Arrived in Leinster during Schmidt's time and got himself injured a lot. Leinster loaned him to Connacht and at end of his two year contract didn't renew it. Connacht took him on.

He played in the 4 shirt for 6-7 games at start of season during RWC. But was then down the pecking order behind Dillane, Muldowney and Browne.

However, Schmidt said on his squad selection that he was a specialist tighthead lock compared to Dillane, Ryan and Toner. And he's been given the 5 shirt for tomorrow to put ballast behind Furlong and Henderson on that side too.

Pack weight comes in around 907kg as a result. Not sure if anyone can say anything more about him until he plays. No doubt he'll get a welcome from his countrymen.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 10:33 am

SecretFly wrote:...and 15 Irish players. Wink............................ hopefully!!!

Honestly wasn't sure if this was reference to not picking up a red card in the game or a jab at the qualification rules (game will have 14 irish and 16 SA people on the field).

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Post by Pot Hale on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 10:57 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
SecretFly wrote:...and 15 Irish players. Wink............................ hopefully!!!

Honestly wasn't sure if this was reference to not picking up a red card in the game or a jab at the qualification rules (game will have 14 irish and 16 SA people on the field).

Not quite. Payne and Reidy. Roux and Strauss. All four could be on the pitch.
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Post by the-goon on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 10:59 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
SecretFly wrote:...and 15 Irish players. Wink............................ hopefully!!!

Honestly wasn't sure if this was reference to not picking up a red card in the game or a jab at the qualification rules (game will have 14 irish and 16 SA people on the field).

16 SA
13 Irish
1 Kiwi

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:23 am

I'll try it:

15 SA
13 Irish
1 Kiwi
1 Zimbabwe

Next attempt please...............

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Post by Golden on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:25 am

Just thought I'd drop it in here as this is where all the traffic is. 

Graham Henry is working with Leinster as a coaching consultant. Should be great for Leo and Girve.

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Post by eirebilly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:26 am

SecretFly wrote:I'll try it:

15 SA
13 Irish
1 Kiwi
1 Zimbabwe

Next attempt please...............

Isn't Heaslip from Israel? Run
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Post by marty2086 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:28 am

Golden wrote:Just thought I'd drop it in here as this is where all the traffic is. 

Graham Henry is working with Leinster as a coaching consultant. Should be great for Leo and Girve.

It was Cullen who set it up, Dempsey is in NZ this summer working with some Super Rugby teams to improve his coaching. Great initiative from them both

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:34 am

Golden wrote:Just thought I'd drop it in here as this is where all the traffic is. 

Graham Henry is working with Leinster as a coaching consultant. Should be great for Leo and Girve.

From.... a year ago or from next season? ....by post, express mail, e-mail, facebook or twitter?

I'm suspicious of Graham - I think he must be earning a lot of loot doing armchair consultant from his own home for teams all over the world. He gets sent the weekly videos - he gives a few wisecracks about the idiot at 15 and collects the fee.

Is he going to be resident in Ireland?

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:42 am

SecretFly wrote:
Golden wrote:Just thought I'd drop it in here as this is where all the traffic is. 

Graham Henry is working with Leinster as a coaching consultant. Should be great for Leo and Girve.

From.... a year ago or from next season? ....by post, express mail, e-mail, facebook or twitter?

I'm suspicious of Graham - I think he must be earning a lot of loot doing armchair consultant from his own home for teams all over the world.  He gets sent the weekly videos - he gives a few wisecracks about the idiot at 15 and collects the fee.

Is he going to be resident in Ireland?

Hes doing a review of last season and will be in Dublin in August for a few weeks to observe training etc and will give feedback on training and tactics

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Post by Golden on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:47 am

Seemed to work for Argentina when they had him as a consultant.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:49 am

Well, I love the old coot as a character - the players will be entertained by him anyway - he plays that grumpy granddad role well - just hope he gives value for money on training.

I've heard of him being mentioned in this role before. Can anyone remember any of the sides he was linked to? - AP sides I seem to remember.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:50 am

Oh you got in there before me Golden.

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Post by Golden on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:57 am

Ye think he signed on as a full time coach after his consultancy contract. So fingers crossed if it works out he might stay a little longer.

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South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 2 Empty Re: South Africa v Ireland, 18 June

Post by Sin é on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 12:04 pm

SecretFly wrote:Well, I love the old coot as a character - the players will be entertained by him anyway - he plays that grumpy granddad role well  - just hope he gives value for money on training.

I've heard of him being mentioned in this role before.  Can anyone remember any of the sides he was linked to? - AP sides I seem to remember.

Did the SRU get in Wayne Smith or someone like that for a few weeks?

Had a good laugh at the Irish Times report from Cumiskey who couldn't resist having a few digs at Munster. He claimed that Penney left Munster because Munster didn't want to renew Simon Mannix's contract (which isn't true as Penney did commit to a 1 year contract extension).

Leo is going to survive with Leinster - he is a wily old fox. Graham Henry is just a PR exercise. Very Happy
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Post by eirebilly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 12:09 pm

I do feel that Cullen has the makings to be a very good coach, it was just too early for him to be the main man. Henry will bring some experience to him so I feel its a very positive thing for Leinster.
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South Africa v Ireland, 18 June - Page 2 Empty Re: South Africa v Ireland, 18 June

Post by SecretFly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 12:13 pm

Golden wrote:Ye think he signed on as a full time coach after his consultancy contract. So fingers crossed if it works out he might stay a little longer.

Now that Would be sweet Wink

Not that I'd like Cullen to go at this point - he's done an okay job when I was quite critical of him in the beginning.

But think about that:

Joe stays! (well that's the way I'm thinking before the next game - otherwise Schmidt OUT!)
Kiss at Ulster
Erasmus at Munster
Lam at Connacht
Henry (with Cullen still in situ) at Leinster.

The world will hate us!!!   Wonderful!!!!!!!   We Love being Hated!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh .....................what?........................... that's not us?  It's them other fellas?

Bummer.

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