The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll)

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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:15 am

First topic message reminder :

Hopefully it will stop the arguments about Gib and we can tell Spain to pee off

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 12:44 pm

Jo Cox will have an affect on this, unfortunately for the wrong reasons and not how she would have wanted. The trouble is that some people are sheep and will listen to the media and bureaucrats on 6 figure salaries who constantly undermine Leave by linking them with terrorists, racists, etc. Now that they're stating that the murderer of Cox is a right-wing terrorist Leave supporter that's no doubt going to effect the outcome in my mind. That and the staged incident involving anti-Semite Warsi of course.

Another thing is that an idiot like Katie Hopkins is given plenty of airtime and has been most vocal in supporting Leave. Whilst I agree with what this idiot says about 50% of the time she posted a very unnecessary tweet (at 11:04am I think) - stuff like that is just fuelling the accusations constantly levelled at the Leave supporters.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 12:45 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:

I know it shows a lack of free will to listen to experts on the subject, but George Soros' comments today are, in my view, worth reading. When it comes to understanding currencies and markets, he's usually on the money.

Soros is back on the trading floor as well after a 20 year plus absence. He's taking no chances about the 23rd. Piling into gold. Million shares in the biggest gold ETF fund since the start of the year.



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Post by Alex_Germany on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 1:23 pm

temporary21 wrote:Did Nissan say they would stay regardless of the result? If they did then the poster is correct and they may well have a fight with that one

Nissan have said Remain is best to preserve investment in the UK.

They will of course stay in the UK - for the short term. When it comes to investing for the next model, they will prefer a location in the EU.

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Post by Alex_Germany on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 1:27 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:

I know it shows a lack of free will to listen to experts on the subject, but George Soros' comments today are, in my view, worth reading. When it comes to understanding currencies and markets, he's usually on the money.

Worth reading yes. But the economic argument for Remain is already won. If people won't listen to the Bank of England, the IMF, just about every economic forecaster, or even the money markets, why would they listen to Soros?

Perhaps they'll listen to Beckham, who I think summed up some of the intangible benefits of Remaining:
David Beckham wrote:We live in a vibrant and connected world where together as a people we are strong. For our children and their children we should be facing the problems of the world together and not alone. For these reasons, I am voting to remain.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 1:33 pm

Alex_Germany wrote:
David Beckham wrote:We live in a vibrant and connected world where together as a people we are strong. For our children and their children we should be facing the problems of the world together and not alone. For these reasons, I am voting to remain.

Good man, Dave. And I'm going to try to walk into America next week without a passport just to prove him right. I'll keep you all informed of my progress.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 1:40 pm

I love Dai Beckham as much as the next fan, but I thought that was a strange post from him. He lives between Madrid and USA, he had some great experiences in an epic Man Utd team with the likes of Keane and Cantona - and based on that he's voting Remain? I thought that was silly reasoning seeing as you can do all of those things being outside of the EU... The EU is freedom of trade, not freedom of people. We're still allies with France, Germany, etc. regardless of which way the referendum goes. I think somebody should explain this to Dai.

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Post by Alex_Germany on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 1:49 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:The EU is freedom of trade, not freedom of people.

It's both. I value the right to live and work (but not claim benefits) where I want to in the EU. I value the ability to travel across the EU (I accept a passport check as a necessary hassle).
SecretFly wrote:
And I'm going to try to walk into America next week without a passport just to prove him right.

I did try driving into America without a visa. We thought we'd just cross over the "freedom bridge" after visiting Niagra, show passports, maybe fill in a form at worse (like I used to on the plane), do some shopping and drive back.

Well, they did allow us back after 2 hours of waiting, but it really made me appreciate the EU borders.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 1:55 pm

But David uses a Passport a lot. And he doesn't seem to have a problem with the technicalities of having one except when he hears the word EU. Then it's One World for All of Humanity to Save the Human Race.

I don't buy that variety of schmaltz myself, even when at a reduced rate in Aldi/Lidl.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:05 pm

SecretFly wrote:Did George Soros suffer when the last big World Economic downturn happened?

Or did he profit?

We do realise that these big Investors and 'money' professionals are quite similar to Art Dealers.... they not only want to talk about 'good' art, they want to promote art down the avenue they've  wisely pre-invested in.  And thus we often get grey paint on a disused old red brick, lying in the middle of a billion dollar Art Gallery and worth 40 million bucks.

Soros isn't any more neutral than Duty is.  




I believe Soros is well-hedged against the economic risk of Brexit. I suspect it would be in his financial interests for the UK to vote Leave.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:11 pm

Nah I wouldn't, Exiled.  But you're right, he'd be up to promoting one view and hoping the opposite happens, that's the 'skills' of an investor.  But this time, I think he has no cards up his sleeve, except a personal view on best conditions for personal gain.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:30 pm

I still think his view is important. He is an authoritative figure in this field. Of course Lord Lamont has made some valid rebuttals to the position as well, as has Michael Gove. The prospect of a short/medium term economic shock is an area worth exploring, as people should vote with their eyes open.

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Post by Guest on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:41 pm

Front page news from the BBC:
"David Beckham has urged people to vote to stay in the European Union"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36584685

I think this has finally convinced me to become a social, political and media critic.

Apologies for the duplication.  But whether one is for or against democracy, the BBC is acting desperately.

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Post by Hero on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:45 pm

Leave wheeled out Keith Chegwin and Right Said Fred, just balancing it out Laugh

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Post by Guest on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:47 pm

Nore Staat wrote:Front page news from the BBC:
"David Beckham has urged people to vote to stay in the European Union"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36584685

I think this has finally convinced me to become a social, political and media critic.

Apologies for the duplication.  But whether one is for or against democracy, the BBC is acting desperately.

The BBC is little more than a red top rag.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:48 pm

No Junckers wheeled out Cheggers, hoping he'd Leave voluntarily himself. Cheggers, as always, picked it up all wrong.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:50 pm

I would concur - David Beckham's opinions on anything outside the world of football should carry no more weight than any other ordinary human being, and are not newsworthy.

Shall we ask Wayne Rooney what he thinks? Dylan Hartley perhaps, or Alistair Cook?

Far better to pay attention to the likes of James Dyson and George Soros.

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Post by Alex_Germany on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:53 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I would concur - David Beckham's opinions on anything outside the world of football should carry no more weight than any other ordinary human being, and are not newsworthy.

Shall we ask Wayne Rooney what he thinks? Dylan Hartley perhaps, or Alistair Cook?

Far better to pay attention to the likes of James Dyson and George Soros.

Yes, but seeing as most people don't .....

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:55 pm

Presumably Alistair Cook would be in favour of Leave - assuming it didn't nip back in and clip the top of the bails.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:56 pm

Alex_Germany wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I would concur - David Beckham's opinions on anything outside the world of football should carry no more weight than any other ordinary human being, and are not newsworthy.

Shall we ask Wayne Rooney what he thinks? Dylan Hartley perhaps, or Alistair Cook?

Far better to pay attention to the likes of James Dyson and George Soros.

Yes, but seeing as most people don't .....

This is true. Whilst it's easy to be snooty about Beckham, he is popular with a portion of the electorate that I suspect I'm not particularly in tune with!

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:56 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Presumably Alistair Cook would be in favour of Leave - assuming it didn't nip back in and clip the top of the bails.


Nah, he's a Remain [at the crease for a long time] man.....

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:56 pm

Nothing wrong with David having an opinion at all. It's as valid an opinion as the pocket load of economists who warble away to their hearts content, whilst chewing on the REMAINs of their last Havana cigar.
LEAVE David alone. He's a nice man and treats kids well in the tunnel........

Hmmm...maybe I should re-word that last bit a little, but yis know what I mean...............


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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:57 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Well it turns out I can't vote. I'm registered to vote in person, and I'm out bright and early every Thursday morning until the evening ends. There's just no time for me to go back to the area where my mother lives (where I'm registered) and vote. Silly me.

Rolling Eyes

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:58 pm

SecretFly wrote:Nothing wrong with David having an opinion at all.  It's as valid an opinion as the pocket load of economists who warble away to their hearts content, whilst chewing on the REMAINs of their last Havana cigar.
LEAVE David alone.  He's a nice man and treats kids well in the tunnel........

Hmmm...maybe I should re-word that last bit a little, but yis know what I mean...............


I'm delighted he has an opinion. I was merely questioning whether it was newsworthy!

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Post by Guest on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:59 pm

Or if it's his opinion...

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:01 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Nothing wrong with David having an opinion at all.  It's as valid an opinion as the pocket load of economists who warble away to their hearts content, whilst chewing on the REMAINs of their last Havana cigar.
LEAVE David alone.  He's a nice man and treats kids well in the tunnel........

Hmmm...maybe I should re-word that last bit a little, but yis know what I mean...............


I'm delighted he has an opinion. I was merely questioning whether it was newsworthy!

We've all proven that it is Wink

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:06 pm

Munchkin wrote:Or if it's his opinion...

I'm not sure why he would say it if it were not at the very least the sentiment he wishes to express. That said he has, possibly, had some "help" with the wording of the press release.....

I actually think the bigger story is the misuse by the Leave.EU campaign (the same idiots who tried to use Orlando as part of their Project Fear strategy) over some old Victoria Beckham quotes. Were they so desperate to find someone to stick on posters that they had to rehash a quote from 20 years ago without even consulting the person being quoted to ascertain whether they still held those views, or to check its context!!?

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:08 pm

Because they're idiots.

Have you seen what that senior Leave board member just got sacked for??!

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:09 pm

Because, if we didn't know already, Leave all boils down to xenophobia....

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/20/vote-leave-board-member-quits-over-anti-muslim-retweets

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:13 pm

Interestingly the "underdog" Leave campaign, the one that was so vocally ahead in the polls last week, is also ahead of Remain in the fundraising stakes. This doesn't really tally with the narrative of Remain being in the pockets of the big banks and the wealthy elite who just want the status quo - some pretty chunky amounts given to Leave by wealthy backers!

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Post by Guest on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:13 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Or if it's his opinion...

I'm not sure why he would say it if it were not at the very least the sentiment he wishes to express. That said he has, possibly, had some "help" with the wording of the press release.....

I actually think the bigger story is the misuse by the Leave.EU campaign (the same idiots who tried to use Orlando as part of their Project Fear strategy) over some old Victoria Beckham quotes. Were they so desperate to find someone to stick on posters that they had to rehash a quote from 20 years ago without even consulting the person being quoted to ascertain whether they still held those views, or to check its context!!?

Because I don't trust media whores. Why should I? New Labour was very fond of wheeling out celebs as rent-a-mouths and then we have the spectacle of Geldof chasing after Farage in a boat.

Beckhams little line seems scripted.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:15 pm

SecretFly wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Nothing wrong with David having an opinion at all.  It's as valid an opinion as the pocket load of economists who warble away to their hearts content, whilst chewing on the REMAINs of their last Havana cigar.
LEAVE David alone.  He's a nice man and treats kids well in the tunnel........

Hmmm...maybe I should re-word that last bit a little, but yis know what I mean...............


I'm delighted he has an opinion. I was merely questioning whether it was newsworthy!

We've all proven that it is Wink

Fair enough. Should I make it to become editor of The Sun I must remember to photograph my genitals for the front cover.....

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:21 pm

Munchkin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Or if it's his opinion...

I'm not sure why he would say it if it were not at the very least the sentiment he wishes to express. That said he has, possibly, had some "help" with the wording of the press release.....

I actually think the bigger story is the misuse by the Leave.EU campaign (the same idiots who tried to use Orlando as part of their Project Fear strategy) over some old Victoria Beckham quotes. Were they so desperate to find someone to stick on posters that they had to rehash a quote from 20 years ago without even consulting the person being quoted to ascertain whether they still held those views, or to check its context!!?

Because I don't trust media whores. Why should I? New Labour was very fond of wheeling out celebs as rent-a-mouths and then we have the spectacle of Geldof chasing after Farage in a boat.

Beckhams little line seems scripted.

I'm not sure what New Labour has to do with any of this, but the point you make is exactly why I don't think his opinion merits a prominent place in the newscycle. Not necessary because it can't be trusted to be his view - I am confident the sentiment is his even if the exact words are not (after all, it's not like Remain have the money to tempt Beckham, as he'll make more interest from his net worth in one week than Remain has in its campaign warchest) - but because his opinion on such matters ought to carry no more weight than mine or yours.

If, on the other hand, he wished to question the selection policy of Roy Hodgson last night, then I'd be more inclined to read it.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:27 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Fair enough. Should I make it to become editor of The Sun I must remember to photograph my genitals for the front cover.....

I'll refrain from helping 606 make that newsworthy.... no disrespect to the appendage intended of course.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:31 pm

The gap narrows with the latest phone poll*! Remain have the advantage with the 'Don't Knows' and a narrow polling lead; Leave have the advantage of turnout and postal votes. 'Tis a close one.

EU referendum poll:
Remain: 45% (-)
Leave: 44% (+2)
(via Survation, phone / 20 Jun)


*I hope TopHat notices that I am indeed posting them all.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:33 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:

I'm not sure what New Labour has to do with any of this, but the point you make is exactly why I don't think his opinion merits a prominent place in the newscycle. Not necessary because it can't be trusted to be his view  - but because his opinion on such matters ought to carry no more weight than mine or yours.


Well that would ensure David is entitled to about 100,000 or so more words on the subject in public. That's what we've been having.

David has a right to his view ...Goddamn it, even Mad Bob of Geldof has a right to an opinion - it pains me to say so. Crying or Very sad But I'd just say David's opinion has a good heart but I think even TopHat might be inclined to accuse him of being another Brand, given the lack of hard as nails realism attached to it.

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Post by Guest on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:37 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Or if it's his opinion...

I'm not sure why he would say it if it were not at the very least the sentiment he wishes to express. That said he has, possibly, had some "help" with the wording of the press release.....

I actually think the bigger story is the misuse by the Leave.EU campaign (the same idiots who tried to use Orlando as part of their Project Fear strategy) over some old Victoria Beckham quotes. Were they so desperate to find someone to stick on posters that they had to rehash a quote from 20 years ago without even consulting the person being quoted to ascertain whether they still held those views, or to check its context!!?

Because I don't trust media whores. Why should I? New Labour was very fond of wheeling out celebs as rent-a-mouths and then we have the spectacle of Geldof chasing after Farage in a boat.

Beckhams little line seems scripted.

I'm not sure what New Labour has to do with any of this, but the point you make is exactly why I don't think his opinion merits a prominent place in the newscycle. Not necessary because it can't be trusted to be his view - I am confident the sentiment is his even if the exact words are not (after all, it's not like Remain have the money to tempt Beckham, as he'll make more interest from his net worth in one week than Remain has in its campaign warchest) - but because his opinion on such matters ought to carry no more weight than mine or yours.

If, on the other hand, he wished to question the selection policy of Roy Hodgson last night, then I'd be more inclined to read it.

Because New Labour made good use of this slimy tactic. It is relevant.

Why should you be confident that this is in fact his opinion? You said yourself that he may have had 'a little help' from the press. Why trust a pro Remain media to accurately portray his opinion? We have witnessed the media bias during the Scottish Referendum. This campaign is no different. That said, my point was more that someone from Remain HQ has contacted him and basically told him his opinion, even if he is pro Remain.


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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:59 pm

Munchkin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Or if it's his opinion...

I'm not sure why he would say it if it were not at the very least the sentiment he wishes to express. That said he has, possibly, had some "help" with the wording of the press release.....

I actually think the bigger story is the misuse by the Leave.EU campaign (the same idiots who tried to use Orlando as part of their Project Fear strategy) over some old Victoria Beckham quotes. Were they so desperate to find someone to stick on posters that they had to rehash a quote from 20 years ago without even consulting the person being quoted to ascertain whether they still held those views, or to check its context!!?

Because I don't trust media whores. Why should I? New Labour was very fond of wheeling out celebs as rent-a-mouths and then we have the spectacle of Geldof chasing after Farage in a boat.

Beckhams little line seems scripted.

I'm not sure what New Labour has to do with any of this, but the point you make is exactly why I don't think his opinion merits a prominent place in the newscycle. Not necessary because it can't be trusted to be his view - I am confident the sentiment is his even if the exact words are not (after all, it's not like Remain have the money to tempt Beckham, as he'll make more interest from his net worth in one week than Remain has in its campaign warchest) - but because his opinion on such matters ought to carry no more weight than mine or yours.

If, on the other hand, he wished to question the selection policy of Roy Hodgson last night, then I'd be more inclined to read it.

Because New Labour made good use of this slimy tactic. It is relevant.

Why should you be confident that this is in fact his opinion? You said yourself that he may have had 'a little help' from the press. Why trust a pro Remain media to accurately portray his opinion? We have witnessed the media bias during the Scottish Referendum. This campaign is no different. That said, my point was more that someone from Remain HQ has contacted him and basically told him his opinion, even if he is pro Remain.


Because he said it and has stood by it. If he felt otherwise I'm confident we'd have heard about it.

As for the accusations of media bias, I think you need to be more specific. There are papers backing Remain and papers backing Leave. They have each made it clear who they are supporting, and the front covers and editorials back that up. If you mean the BBC, then I personally think they've done a pretty decent job in this referendum of staying on the fence, as they did in the Scottish referendum. Just look at the coverage today: they've led with the Steve Hilton story for most of the day, and now have reported a speech by the Prime Minister (sort of hard not to cover that if you're a media/news website). They've also published the story of Farage claiming that the PM and Osborne linked the Jo Cox murderer to the Leave campaign, as well as the DUP support for Brexit. That's just on the Beeb today. They also report the Soros piece, but included rebuttals from Gove and Lamont within the same article. I think they've done a useful job.

As for the slur on New Labour, please don't pretend that New Labour somehow invented spin. It's as old as the dawn of time, they just did it well. The media operation under David Cameron has been no different.

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Post by Guest on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:05 pm

Blah Blah Blah...There's more important things in the world, namely, should I get my holiday euros now or after Thursday?

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:09 pm

It's a hacksaw blade after Thursday, isn't it???

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:11 pm

DAVE667 wrote:Blah Blah Blah...There's more important things in the world, namely, should I get my holiday euros now or after Thursday?

You should have got them at the tail-end of last week. Hope that helps.....

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Post by Mochyn du on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:14 pm

I feel very disillusioned that the "Remain" politicians have all but admitted they have no control over immigration and instead the lying toad Cameron accuses people of being "little Englanders". VOTE LEAVE.

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Post by Guest on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:21 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:Blah Blah Blah...There's more important things in the world, namely, should I get my holiday euros now or after Thursday?

You should have got them at the tail-end of last week. Hope that helps.....
Do you have a time machine...if not, it doesn't help. Dunno why I'm bothered, it will still get spent on sh!t we wouldn't dream of buying if we were at home and the kids simply have to have immediately lest they drop dead on the spot. I then get to carry the f*cking stuff around for a fortnight whilst waiting for a convenient time, to drop, bin or break it so it doesn't clutter up my house.

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Post by Ent on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:23 pm

Elderly man 'punched in the face for handing out Remain leaflets' | Crime | News | The Independent - www.independent.co.uk
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/elderly-man-punched-in-the-face-for-handing-out-remain-leaflets-a7093386.html?campaign_id=A100&campaign_type=Email

May or may not be true but I can't help feeling less of the general public as the result of this referendum.

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Post by Guest on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:24 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Or if it's his opinion...

I'm not sure why he would say it if it were not at the very least the sentiment he wishes to express. That said he has, possibly, had some "help" with the wording of the press release.....

I actually think the bigger story is the misuse by the Leave.EU campaign (the same idiots who tried to use Orlando as part of their Project Fear strategy) over some old Victoria Beckham quotes. Were they so desperate to find someone to stick on posters that they had to rehash a quote from 20 years ago without even consulting the person being quoted to ascertain whether they still held those views, or to check its context!!?

Because I don't trust media whores. Why should I? New Labour was very fond of wheeling out celebs as rent-a-mouths and then we have the spectacle of Geldof chasing after Farage in a boat.

Beckhams little line seems scripted.

I'm not sure what New Labour has to do with any of this, but the point you make is exactly why I don't think his opinion merits a prominent place in the newscycle. Not necessary because it can't be trusted to be his view - I am confident the sentiment is his even if the exact words are not (after all, it's not like Remain have the money to tempt Beckham, as he'll make more interest from his net worth in one week than Remain has in its campaign warchest) - but because his opinion on such matters ought to carry no more weight than mine or yours.

If, on the other hand, he wished to question the selection policy of Roy Hodgson last night, then I'd be more inclined to read it.

Because New Labour made good use of this slimy tactic. It is relevant.

Why should you be confident that this is in fact his opinion? You said yourself that he may have had 'a little help' from the press. Why trust a pro Remain media to accurately portray his opinion? We have witnessed the media bias during the Scottish Referendum. This campaign is no different. That said, my point was more that someone from Remain HQ has contacted him and basically told him his opinion, even if he is pro Remain.


Because he said it and has stood by it. If he felt otherwise I'm confident we'd have heard about it.

As for the accusations of media bias, I think you need to be more specific. There are papers backing Remain and papers backing Leave. They have each made it clear who they are supporting, and the front covers and editorials back that up. If you mean the BBC, then I personally think they've done a pretty decent job in this referendum of staying on the fence, as they did in the Scottish referendum. Just look at the coverage today: they've led with the Steve Hilton story for most of the day, and now have reported a speech by the Prime Minister (sort of hard not to cover that if you're a media/news website). They've also published the story of Farage claiming that the PM and Osborne linked the Jo Cox murderer to the Leave campaign, as well as the DUP support for Brexit. That's just on the Beeb today. They also report the Soros piece, but included rebuttals from Gove and Lamont within the same article. I think they've done a useful job.

As for the slur on New Labour, please don't pretend that New Labour somehow invented spin. It's as old as the dawn of time, they just did it well. The media operation under David Cameron has been no different.

Fair enough if he has stood by it. I haven't seen any interview from him since the article was published.

There are papers backing Leave, however, the vast majority are backing Remain, just as the majority of MP's do. Leave are very much in the minority.

As much as I'm happy that Scottish Independence didn't win the day, I did take note of the incredible bias of the media, the BBC in particular, in favour of the 'Better Together' campaign. Certainly they will throw scraps to the opposition, they wouldn't want to appear too obvious, but generally the bias was in favour of 'Better Together' campaign, with  Nick Robinson leading the way.
There were plenty of protests at the time, including a protest outside of the BBC Scotlands HQ. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, but I do think your opinion may be slightly coloured if you have failed to see any bias.


Last edited by Munchkin on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:40 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:28 pm

Mochyn du wrote:I feel very disillusioned that the "Remain" politicians have all but admitted they have no control over immigration and instead the lying toad Cameron accuses people of being "little Englanders".  VOTE LEAVE.

When did Cameron accuse people of being "little Englanders", using the term you put in quotations?

Just out of interest:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10110200/David-Cameron-dont-patronise-little-Englanders-worried-by-immigration.html

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:42 pm

Munchkin wrote:
As much as I'm happy that Scottish Independence didn't win the day, I did take note of the incredible bias of the media, the BBC in particular, in favour of the 'YES' campaign. Certainly they will throw scraps to the opposition, they wouldn't want to appear too obvious, but generally the bias was in favour of 'YES' campaign, with that loathsome toad Nick Robinson leading the way.
There were plenty of protests at the time, including a protest outside of the BBC Scotlands HQ. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, but I do think your opinion may be slightly coloured if you have failed to see any bias.

Why do people keep using the term "toad"??

Anyway, when you say "yes" I presume you mean "no"?

Please, by all means, point me to one incident where Nick Robinson displayed bias in front of the camera for the BBC during the IndyRef. I watched oodles of coverage and saw none. The "Yes" campaign, and the SNP, are desperate to pick fights with what is seen by them as the "Westminster machine" (including the BBC) - it is a win/win for them. Their supporters love it (makes it look like they are sticking two fingers up to the "establishment"), it portrays them as underdogs which is always politically helpful (the Leave campaign is resorting to this now, despite raising more funds and having lead the polls last week) and it raises the possibility of the BBC becoming more favourable to them going forward. It's like Mourinho saying before a game that the referee has in the past treated his team badly. Don't be fooled by the protests, this was a well oiled and cynical operation from the SNP, and if you think New Labour were awful for their use of spin, the SNP makes them look amateurish.

For what it's worth, I actually thought the BBC Scotland coverage went the other way. Brian Taylor came across as a "Yes" supporter in his reports, brimming with enthusiasm for independence - and did you manage to catch the live BBC Scotland IndyRef debate? Did you think the studio audience was neutral?? I'm not sure a single question came from a "No" supporter, which is surprising given 55% of those who voted went that way.

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Post by Guest on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:48 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
As much as I'm happy that Scottish Independence didn't win the day, I did take note of the incredible bias of the media, the BBC in particular, in favour of the 'YES' campaign. Certainly they will throw scraps to the opposition, they wouldn't want to appear too obvious, but generally the bias was in favour of 'YES' campaign, with that loathsome toad Nick Robinson leading the way.
There were plenty of protests at the time, including a protest outside of the BBC Scotlands HQ. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, but I do think your opinion may be slightly coloured if you have failed to see any bias.

Why do people keep using the term "toad"??

Anyway, when you say "yes" I presume you mean "no"?

Please, by all means, point me to one incident where Nick Robinson displayed bias in front of the camera for the BBC during the IndyRef. I watched oodles of coverage and saw none. The "Yes" campaign, and the SNP, are desperate to pick fights with what is seen by them as the "Westminster machine" (including the BBC) - it is a win/win for them. Their supporters love it (makes it look like they are sticking two fingers up to the "establishment"), it portrays them as underdogs which is always politically helpful (the Leave campaign is resorting to this now, despite raising more funds and having lead the polls last week) and it raises the possibility of the BBC becoming more favourable to them going forward. It's like Mourinho saying before a game that the referee has in the past treated his team badly. Don't be fooled by the protests, this was a well oiled and cynical operation from the SNP, and if you think New Labour were awful for their use of spin, the SNP makes them look amateurish.

For what it's worth, I actually thought the BBC Scotland coverage went the other way. Brian Taylor came across as a "Yes" supporter in his reports, brimming with enthusiasm for independence - and did you manage to catch the live BBC Scotland IndyRef debate? Did you think the studio audience was neutral?? I'm not sure a single question came from a "No" supporter, which is surprising given 55% of those who voted went that way.

I deleted the 'Toad' as I think it was a bit strong, although my feelings about him aren't far from that. Yes, I meant 'No' I corrected that.

One incident? Ok:


On 11 September 2014, as part of the coverage of the Scottish independence referendum, Nick Robinson had a dispute with Scottish National Party leader Alex Salmond. The previous day Robinson had reported that Lloyds Bank and RBS would be moving their registered offices from Scotland to London in the event of a "Yes" vote.[33] In the exchange[34] Robinson asked Salmond two questions: the first about the economic impact of RBS moving its headquarters, the second more general. Salmond gave answers to the two questions, and claimed that an investigation into the BBC's actions would be sought given that rules regarding the release of market-sensitive data had been broken. After the 4 minute 30 second answer, Robinson continued, now off-mic, to ask further questions and so was accused of heckling by Salmond.[35] Salmond gave another 2 minute answer to the off-mic questions. The entire exchange lasted for 7 minutes 40 seconds. A report was shown on all BBC evening news programmes later that day, edited to show only the second part of Robinson's original two-part question before cutting to his narration in which he claimed Salmond had not answered his question but had instead chosen to lay accusations against the BBC.[36] The BBC received complaints from viewers for the implication that Salmond had not answered a question put to him, and there was protest in Glasgow.[37] The BBC responded: "The BBC considers that the questions were valid and the overall report balanced and impartial, in line with our editorial guidelines.[38]
In November 2014, Robinson was covering the count for the Rochester and Strood by-election. He was seen smiling whilst posing for a photograph with Britain First candidate and deputy leader Jayda Fransen. The far right-wing party promotes preserving "ancestral ethnic and cultural heritage" within the UK whilst being opposed to Scottish independence, non-Christian religious interests and [social] Liberalism.[39] Due to the fact that Robinson had been accused of bias on these issues before, he was now accused, by some, on Twitter, of being sympathetic to the party's values and friendly with the leadership. Responding, he said he was not affiliated with the party leadership and did not check who the photo was for beforehand, presuming that she was "a worker at the count".[40]

NicksBias

If I remember correctly, Nick Robinson edited his own material and so would be responsible for what appeared to be a blatant lie.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:51 pm

DAVE667 wrote:Blah Blah Blah...There's more important things in the world, namely, should I get my holiday euros now or after Thursday?

It's a bet on Remain or Leave.

£ is up on positive remain polls but will tank on a Leave vote.

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Post by Guest on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:56 pm

Although the Euro could nose dive if Leave win.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:57 pm

Buy Yen and Dollar now, then use that to buy Euro after a Leave vote.....

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