RGC1404 region or club ?

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RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 11:15 am

Well, so here we are, there is a job being advertised for the General manager of a Welsh development region. So what is going on here then ? Do we have a WRU owned region ? Or are they just another club in Wales ? Does anybody on here fancy throwing their hat into the ring ? How would this support PhilBB's rants about union owned teams ?

http://www.wru.wales/eng/thewru/vacancies/current_vacancies.php

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/applications-open-new-north-wales-11471523#ICID=sharebar_facebook


How would a North Wales region fit into the Pro12 ? Would we have to see the scrapping of a current Welsh region to fit them in ? Or would we have 5 regions in the Pro12 in the future ?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 11:28 am

a) We can't 'scrap a region'
b) For RGC to become professional would require them to be sold off.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 12:57 pm

RGC 1404

That is some name for a side!

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by whocares on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 1:04 pm

SecretFly wrote:RGC 1404

That is some name for a side!

indeed!

always wondered if 1404 was a post code but turns out I couldn't be more wrong :

"In January 2010, the team was renamed RGC 1404 to reflect the year that Owain Glyndŵr became Prince of Wales, and RGC being an acronym for Rygbi Gogledd Cymru (Rugby North Wales)." (source : wikipdedia).

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by Kingshu on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 1:55 pm

The WRU have been building them for years, but I don't think they really have a long term plan for them.

Set up to develop rugby in North Wales but to what extent I don't know, if its just up to getting to Welsh Prem level, or higher.

I would guess if they were to join the Pro 12 that two teams would have to be merged Ospreys/Scarlets or Blues/Dragons as the WRU can't afford 5 teams, and would they even get premission to enter a 5th team?

Guess if they were to merge teams it would not go down very well with fans of the 2 clubs, plus then you would have the previous Celtic Warriors fans kicking up that they have the most recently successful club and haven't be allowed into the Pro 12.

If they were to get into the Pro 12 it would create another mess.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 2:57 pm

Kingshu, there is the third option of the WRU hang on hoping that the Italians either drop one side, or pull out completely, leaving them a chance to put RGC in. But realistically, they are going to really struggle in the welsh prem next season, and they are years if no decades off being up to the standards of the lower Pro12 sides.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 3:22 pm

Kingshu wrote:The WRU have been building them for years, but I don't think they really have a long term plan for them.

Set up to develop rugby in North Wales but to what extent I don't know, if its just up to getting to Welsh Prem level, or higher.

I would guess if they were to join the Pro 12 that two teams would have to be merged Ospreys/Scarlets or Blues/Dragons as the WRU can't afford 5 teams, and would they even get premission to enter a 5th team?

Guess if they were to merge teams it would not go down very well with fans of the 2 clubs, plus then you would have the previous Celtic Warriors fans kicking up that they have the most recently successful club and haven't be allowed into the Pro 12.

If they were to get into the Pro 12 it would create another mess.

There is no mechanism for the WRU to merge two teams.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 3:46 pm

Kingshu wrote:the WRU can't afford 5 teams, and would they even get premission to enter a 5th team?

The WRU do not own any team. SO how would they all of a sudden start having to afford 5 teams ?

The only side they own is RGC1404.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 3:53 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Kingshu wrote:the WRU can't afford 5 teams, and would they even get premission to enter a 5th team?

The WRU do not own any team. SO how would they all of a sudden start having to afford 5 teams ?

The only side they own is RGC1404.

Maybe he meant that the WRU can't afford to pay four teams the market value for their supply, let alone a 5th.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 3:57 pm

Also, if RGC1404 are a development region, then who are they developing players for ? Where do they go after they are developed ? Do they just stay at RGC1404 and play in the prem ? I wouldn't think so.

Olly Cracknell came from there and is now at Ospreys, are there any others ?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 3:58 pm

Would RGC1404 be the first Real Region in Wales?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 3:59 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Also, if RGC1404 are a development region, then who are they developing players for ? Where do they go after they are developed ? Do they just stay at RGC1404 and play in the prem ? I wouldn't think so.

Olly Cracknell came from there and is now at Ospreys, are there any others ?

Rhun Williams is joining Cardiff next season.

There are many others.

It's why there only needs to be an Academy in the North.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 3:59 pm

SecretFly wrote:Would RGC1404 be the first Real Region in Wales?

Where can we find the definition of a 'real region'?

Thanks.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 4:07 pm

RGC1404 is a region. Fact.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 4:07 pm

PhilBB wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Would RGC1404 be the first Real Region in Wales?

Where can we find the definition of a 'real region'?

Thanks.

Don't know Phil...but the four 'regions' currently lying in the Southern Region wouldn't be a good starting point.

So back to the question: would RGC1404 be the first real Region?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 4:09 pm

SecretFly wrote:

Don't know Phil...but the four 'regions' currently lying in the Southern Region wouldn't be a good starting point.

So back to the question:  would RGC1404 be the first real Region?

Until you tell us the definition of a 'real region' it would be impossible to answer the question, or assess the value of the question.

Certainly it wouldn't be the first WRU Regional Organisation, if that's what you mean?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 4:11 pm

LordDowlais wrote:RGC1404 is a region. Fact.

What's a region?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 4:12 pm

PhilBB wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

Don't know Phil...but the four 'regions' currently lying in the Southern Region wouldn't be a good starting point.

So back to the question:  would RGC1404 be the first real Region?

Until you tell us the definition of a 'real region' it would be impossible to answer the question, or assess the value of the question.

Certainly it wouldn't be the first WRU Regional Organisation, if that's what you mean?

No, ..I mean Region...Region of a Nation.

There are four currently squeezed into what I'd refer to as a Southern Region of Wales at the moment. They can't all be representing that Region...can they?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 4:13 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:RGC1404 is a region. Fact.

What's a region?

Ask the WRU. They are the one's who advertised a job for the north Wales development REGION. OK

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 4:14 pm

A region is an area. A region can be geographic — like a part of a country. A region can be intellectual — like a region of the mind. There are also bodily regions — like abdominal, thoracic, and posterior. A region is any space that is distinct from another area.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 4:16 pm

SecretFly wrote:
No, ..I mean Region...Region of a Nation.

There are four currently squeezed into what I'd refer to as a Southern Region of Wales at the moment.  They can't all be representing that Region...can they?

Well, no, as we don't have representative teams.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 4:18 pm

PhilBB wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
No, ..I mean Region...Region of a Nation.

There are four currently squeezed into what I'd refer to as a Southern Region of Wales at the moment.  They can't all be representing that Region...can they?

Well, no, as we don't have representative teams.

But 1404 will be a first?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 4:18 pm

SecretFly wrote:
But 1404 will be a first?

Pass. I don't see how.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 20 Jun 2016, 6:39 pm

PhilBB wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
No, ..I mean Region...Region of a Nation.

There are four currently squeezed into what I'd refer to as a Southern Region of Wales at the moment.  They can't all be representing that Region...can they?

Well, no, as we don't have representative teams.

As usual, I'll bite to this true region horse muck. The west region of Wales, formally known as Dyfyd, has had a regional team since 2003.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 8:34 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
As usual, I'll bite to this true region horse muck.  The west region of Wales, formally known as Dyfyd, has had a regional team since 2003.

Has it drivel.

There's no representation. There's no input from any junior clubs, no limitation on support. In 2003, the team had a responsibility for North Wales.

The name of the team? The same Llanelli club name that has been in place for 140 years. Run by the same people as ran Llanelli, owned by the same people as ran Llanelli and, ultimately, exactly the same as Llanelli.

That's why they stood alone.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 8:40 am


PhilBB wrote:There's no representation. There's no input from any junior clubs, no limitation on support. In 2003, the team had a responsibility for North Wales.

Funny how you say that, then we have this:-

http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk ... story.html

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 8:42 am

Link doesn't work.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 8:45 am

try this:-

http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/scarlets-heading-north-to-face-bath-in-pre-season/story-29413267-detail/story.html

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 8:50 am

The pre-season friendly? Not sure of your point, sorry.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 8:58 am

PhilBB wrote:The pre-season friendly? Not sure of your point, sorry.

Here we go. Look I am not going around the houses with you on this, just take a look at this bit:-

THE Scarlets are aiming to rekindle their relationship with North Wales after announcing a pre-season friendly with English big-hitters Bath.

And this bit:-

That ended in 2005, but after a successful roadshow in North Wales last season, Scarlets bosses are keen to develop a relationship with the area's rugby community and as part of the three-day tour, there will be an open training session at Parc Eirias the day before the game.


So for whatever reason, they want to take North Wales back. Something tells me that Scarlets might be a little concerned with what is going on up there. Also it shows that Scarlets want to show their responsibility which blows what you said out of the water.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:10 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:The pre-season friendly? Not sure of your point, sorry.

Here we go. Look I am not going around the houses with you on this, just take a look at this bit:-

THE Scarlets are aiming to rekindle their relationship with North Wales after announcing a pre-season friendly with English big-hitters Bath.

And this bit:-

That ended in 2005, but after a successful roadshow in North Wales last season, Scarlets bosses are keen to develop a relationship with the area's rugby community and as part of the three-day tour, there will be an open training session at Parc Eirias the day before the game.


So for whatever reason, they want to take North Wales back. Something tells me that Scarlets might be a little concerned with what is going on up there. Also it shows that Scarlets want to show their responsibility which blows what you said out of the water.

Hang on, you're claiming a three day tour and 'developing a relationship' is a sign of 'showing their responsibility' even though you note from your own copy and paste that the responsibly ended 11 years ago.

I'm sure you can now see the error of your logic.

Also, I'm hoping that you can spot the difference between 'responsibility' and 'representation'.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:16 am

Phil, I am saying, that Scarlets for whatever reason, are now wanting to re-new their responsibility with North Wales. So they will start having representation again.

Look, I am not going around and around with you on this, you made a claim, then I countered and gave proof, as that is what you like, but still you insist on twisting things to suit your argument.

Look, I am not @rsed to do this with you anymore, it's because of you I am spending less time on here, so you can have the internet again for today. OK


I am more interested as to why after 10 years, that Scarlets want to rekindle this relationship. I think they are concerned with what is going on up there.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:25 am

LordDowlais wrote:Phil, I am saying, that Scarlets for whatever reason, are now wanting to re-new their responsibility with North Wales. So they will start having representation again.

Look, I am not going around and around with you on this, you made a claim, then I countered and gave proof, as that is what you like, but still you insist on twisting things to suit your argument.

Look, I am not @rsed to do this with you anymore, it's because of you I am spending less time on here, so you can have the internet again for today. OK


I am more interested as to why after 10 years, that Scarlets want to rekindle this relationship. I think they are concerned with what is going on up there.

They cannot renew their responsibility for North Wales as that is now the job of RGC1404.

You didn't give proof of representation, you gave proof only that the responsibility ended 11 years ago and is now taken up by RGC1404.

All the Turks are doing is playing a game up there.

Stop being pathetic with comments like "it's because of you I am spending less time on here". It seems that you don't like having your logic unravelled.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:29 am

PhilBB wrote:All the Turks are doing is playing a game up there.

Well, let me think about this, but......

Yep that looks like representation to me.

PhilBB wrote:It seems that you don't like having your logic unravelled.

No, it is more of the case that you cannot handle being proved wrong. Sometimes you just need to suck it up and admit that you are not right ALL THE FRIGGING TIME.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:31 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:All the Turks are doing is playing a game up there.

Well, let me think about this, but......

Yep that looks like representation to me.

PhilBB wrote:It seems that you don't like having your logic unravelled.

No, it is more of the case that you cannot handle being proved wrong. Sometimes you just need to suck it up and admit that you are not right ALL THE FRIGGING TIME.

WTF? Playing a game looks like representation????

Ok. So how do you view this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35797586 ?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:35 am

Here's another team playing a game at the end of a training camp:

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/News/Article/45318

Representation? Come on.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:37 am

What has English rugby got to do with how the "regions" are supposed to work ?

Scarlets were supposed to represent North Wales 10 yrs ago, they did not take it seriously, now all of a sudden, that the WRU are calling RGC1404 a region, and they are in the Welsh prem, Scarlets want to rekindle this. They want to represent the region again.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:38 am

PhilBB wrote:Here's another team playing a game at the end of a training camp:

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/News/Article/45318

Representation? Come on.

Thats just a training camp. FFS. I am not getting dragged into this with you. ta ra.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:40 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Thats just a training camp. FFS. I am not getting dragged into this with you. ta ra.

So is this for the Turks! They did the same thing last year!

"not getting dragged into this" = unable to support my argument.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:42 am

LordDowlais wrote:What has English rugby got to do with how the "regions" are supposed to work ?

Scarlets were supposed to represent North Wales 10 yrs ago, they did not take it seriously, now all of a sudden, that the WRU are calling RGC1404 a region, and they are in the Welsh prem, Scarlets want to rekindle this. They want to represent the region again.

Where is the proof that they want to 'represent'? How does it tie in with the existence of RGC1404?

You keep forgetting they did exactly the same training camp last year. All they've done is their old mate Moon a favour as he has organised this game with Bath.

I'm genuinely interested in how you've arrived at this thought process simply because of one game. What am I missing? Are you thinking that the Turks will buy RGC1404 from the WRU?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:44 am

NO. It is quotse like this :-

"THE Scarlets are aiming to rekindle their relationship with North Wales"

"Scarlets bosses are keen to develop a relationship with the the area's rugby community"

This is what I am on about. None of you other links say how Ospreys want to do this in Belgium, or that the English clubs want to do this with New Jersey.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by TJ on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:45 am

PhilBB wrote:a) We can't 'scrap a region'
b) For RGC to become professional would require them to be sold off.

b) no it wouldn't. all that it would require is for the players to be paid - or are you saying the Irish and Scottish teams are not professional?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:46 am

LordDowlais wrote:NO. It is quotse like this :-

"THE Scarlets are aiming to rekindle their relationship with North Wales"

"Scarlets bosses are keen to develop a relationship with the the area's rugby community"

This is what I am on about. None of you other links say how Ospreys want to do this in Belgium, or that the English clubs want to do this with New Jersey.

You missed the bit about the club in Belgium being an 'Ospreys sister club'?

"The Ospreys and ASUB have enjoyed a formal sister club relationship since the start of 2014, with both parties already working together commercially."

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/News/Article/45318

Also, can we address that the Turks did their training camp in North Wales last year, too?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:49 am

TJ wrote:
b) no it wouldn't.  all that it would require is for the players to be paid - or are you saying the Irish and Scottish teams are not professional?

I'm noting that the WRU can't own a pro team.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by TJ on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:50 am

Phill - you spout utter drivel all the time about the pro 12.  We know you hate it.  You have said nothing new for a long time and then you take umbrage at being called out on the utter drivel you post.

Lets get it clear.

The welsh regions are not underfunded, they underperform
The Pro 12 is not biased towards the Irish
No one hates the welsh
A british and Irish league is not going to happen
Welsh regions will not join the aviva and if they did would be humped every game

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:53 am

TJ wrote:
The welsh regions are not underfunded, they underperform
The Pro 12 is not biased towards the Irish
No one hates the welsh
A british and Irish league is not going to happen
Welsh regions will not join the aviva and if they did would be humped every game

1. They receive less for the services they provide than do teams in Scotland, Ireland, England and France. That's the definition of underfunded.
2. Where have I made a claim that the PrO'12 is biased towards the Irish? Other than it being hosted in Dublin, of course.
3. Where did I write that the Welsh are 'hated'?
4. We shall see.
5. Well, results prove otherwise on the 'humping' and, again, we shall see.

So, well done. You claim that I write drivel and then proceeded with that diatribe of ignorance. Well done you.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by TJ on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:55 am

And once again with the nonsense. Take some advice - invoke Hattersleys rule - when in a hole stop digging

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by PhilBB on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:56 am

TJ wrote:And once again with the nonsense.  Take some advice - invoke Hattersleys rule - when in a hole stop digging

Ok, champ, where's the nonsense?

Do tell.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 12:28 pm

PhilBB wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
As usual, I'll bite to this true region horse muck.  The west region of Wales, formally known as Dyfyd, has had a regional team since 2003.

Has it drivel.

There's no representation. There's no input from any junior clubs, no limitation on support. In 2003, the team had a responsibility for North Wales.

The name of the team? The same Llanelli club name that has been in place for 140 years. Run by the same people as ran Llanelli, owned by the same people as ran Llanelli and, ultimately, exactly the same as Llanelli.

That's why they stood alone.

Your right the team had to take over the north, and that was split by mutual consent.

But as far as what is a region, the local teams from village/town level all are involved with them. These towns and villages are represented by them, and if you went to PYS you will see the names of all the clubs in the region proudly displayed in the bar, and on some of the hoardings. I guess you are right to a point that it has been similar with Llanelli RFC pre-regionalism, however doesn't that just strengthen the point that there has always been a region in the west?

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 12:31 pm

TJ wrote:Phill - you spout utter drivel all the time about the pro 12.  We know you hate it.  You have said nothing new for a long time and then you take umbrage at being called out on the utter drivel you post.

Lets get it clear.

The welsh regions are not underfunded, they underperform
The Pro 12 is not biased towards the Irish
No one hates the welsh
A british and Irish league is not going to happen
Welsh regions will not join the aviva and if they did would be humped every game

What the frack does this have to do about whether RGC1404 is a region, and if they are the first real region on not? This is the sort of out right wumming you usually abhor and moan about.

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Re: RGC1404 region or club ?

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