The Final Smackdown - South Africa v Ireland 25 June 2016

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Post by Pot Hale on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 5:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

It's the one we all secretly hoped for - winning a test and being in with a chance to win the series.

The Boks transformed and then re-transformed somewhere in the middle of the second half of the second test. Ireland blew it.

Now there's a chance for Redemption or Ridicule.

At least Bok fans can't say Ireland haven't won a test away in South Africa anymore.....

Or when Irish fans point out after Saturday that the head-to-head record since 2000 is P 12, W 5 L 7, Bok fans won't say yeah but those wins were all at home, and Ireland haven't played in SA since 2004.

Small victories.....

In fact, come to think of it, when was the last time that South Africa toured Ireland, eh? Let's get the re-match set up now. November 2019, three-test tour by SA in Ireland, NZ can take on England, Argentina in Wales and Australia in Scotland. I'd buy tickets for those.

Meanwhile, there's a match on Saturday - same time, same place - different result??

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Post by eirebilly on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 5:45 pm

Well done to SA and their fans. Hell of a comeback after the first 1 1/2 tests.

Fair result in the end but Ireland will be kicking themselves at this missed opportunity.

Did appreciate the way Ireland approached this series, may not have won it but showed some great enterprise and I pretty much enjoyed every match.
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Post by Engine#4 on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 5:46 pm

That standing start one out runner rubbish was never going to cut it at the end. Terrible from Ireland. South Africa deserve the win. Congratulations.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 5:46 pm

Bad decision at he ennd should have been a pen the other way but I only saw las 5 min.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 5:46 pm

marty2086 wrote:Where exactly was De Klerks realise and roll away on the last tackle?

Sums up the game for me, although I don't think we were going to score anyway.

Congrats SA.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 5:47 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Bad decision at he ennd should have been a pen the other way but I only saw las 5 min.

Again, sums up the game. Not sure why SH referees get a good rep.

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Post by marty2086 on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 5:49 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Where exactly was De Klerks realise and roll away on the last tackle?

Sums up the game for me, although I don't think we were going to score anyway.

Congrats SA.

Only seen the second half but Jackson seemed inconsistent with his reffing of the breakdown from what I seen and the last tackle summed it up.

Ireland were too static though and when you are going at a big strong defence like SA from a standing start you get stopped or driven back[/quote]


Last edited by marty2086 on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 5:50 pm

Sickened by that,really annoyed that SA weren't required to release in the tackle at crucial times.More annoyed that Marshall butchered the try at the end of the first half which would have seen us go in 11 points up instead of 3 down.That and Jackson missing the pass which de Klerk intercepted were missed sitters.


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Post by eirebilly on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 5:53 pm

It is what it is lads but credit to SA, the looked out for the count after loosing the first test and at half time in the second but they stood up and out played Ireland. regardless of what can be seen as inconsistent refereeing, that was a fantastic comeback by them thumbsup

On to the U20 final now, hopefully Deegan can bring the boys home.
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Post by carpet baboon on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 5:57 pm

Tired minds cost is that game

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Post by Biltong on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 6:50 pm

Commisserations to the Irish, the Springboks did not deserve to win the test nor the series.

I am embarressed. Such inept performances are not deserved of victory.
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Post by JmD on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 11:22 pm

Was travelling all day so only just watched the highlights of the match, congrats to South Africa on coming away with the series.

On the topic of the refereeing, it's disappointing to see how Glen Jackson has been fast-tracked to the top level despite proving time and time again that he is an amateur when it comes to all things forwards-related. World rugby has gifted him too many important matches based solely on name value.

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Post by Exiledinborders on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 8:38 am

JmD wrote:Was travelling all day so only just watched the highlights of the match, congrats to South Africa on coming away with the series.

On the topic of the refereeing, it's disappointing to see how Glen Jackson has been fast-tracked to the top level despite proving time and time again that he is an amateur when it comes to all things forwards-related. World rugby has gifted him too many important matches based solely on name value.
Jackson has certainly disproved the notion that ex players necessarily make good players.

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 9:28 am

Exiledinborders wrote:
JmD wrote:Was travelling all day so only just watched the highlights of the match, congrats to South Africa on coming away with the series.

On the topic of the refereeing, it's disappointing to see how Glen Jackson has been fast-tracked to the top level despite proving time and time again that he is an amateur when it comes to all things forwards-related. World rugby has gifted him too many important matches based solely on name value.

Jackson has certainly disproved the notion that ex players necessarily make good players.

He was a good enough player to make the Maoris.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 9:57 am

Biltong wrote:Commisserations to the Irish, the Springboks did not deserve to win the test nor the series.

I am embarressed. Such inept performances are not deserved of victory.

Congratulations to the Springboks, they deserved to win.

This series was only close because SA had a rookie team and coach. Some performances may have been inept but they still won so they were less inept than Ireland. In many positions the Bok third or fourth pick is still better or equal to an Ireland first choice. There has been an improvement game by game and by next year's RC they will be a force to be reckoned with.

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Post by eirebilly on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 11:30 am

Biltong wrote:Commisserations to the Irish, the Springboks did not deserve to win the test nor the series.

I am embarressed. Such inept performances are not deserved of victory.

Yeah because this series was only close due to SA's inept performances. Ireland did not play well in any of the tests at all did they. Nor did SA play some inspirational rugby in the second half of the second test which turned the series. This series will only be remembered for SA's inept performances...

Get a grip man.
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Post by eirebilly on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 11:43 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
JmD wrote:Was travelling all day so only just watched the highlights of the match, congrats to South Africa on coming away with the series.

On the topic of the refereeing, it's disappointing to see how Glen Jackson has been fast-tracked to the top level despite proving time and time again that he is an amateur when it comes to all things forwards-related. World rugby has gifted him too many important matches based solely on name value.

Jackson has certainly disproved the notion that ex players necessarily make good players.

He was a good enough player to make the Maoris.

I actually don't thing Jackson had a bad game myself, I think the inconsistencies in refereeing has counted against him. He got the Yellow card call right but it looked bad because of the red card in the first test.
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Post by Biltong on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 11:46 am

eirebilly wrote:
Biltong wrote:Commisserations to the Irish, the Springboks did not deserve to win the test nor the series.

I am embarressed. Such inept performances are not deserved of victory.

Yeah because this series was only close due to SA's inept performances. Ireland did not play well in any of the tests at all did they. Nor did SA play some inspirational rugby in the second half of the second test which turned the series. This series will only be remembered for SA's inept performances...

Get a grip man.

Why do you have to look at my comment in a way that denies Ireland any credit?

Why does my opinion of our performance have to be seen in a light that makes you over react?

I would suggest you should be less sensitive and accept my commisserations rather than read in between the kines whatever you want.

Not every comment is made to belittle another team or player.

Hell I remember there was a time when we could have a decent conversation rather than assaulting another's opinion
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Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 11:47 am

Caulm down everyone. The world is going bazookas enough without rugby and/or football results adding to it.............


Ireland gave it their best shot with the players they had. Great experience for many of them to get that run of games in such a difficult environment. I hope Joe stays. Ireland, with Provinces getting some good additions now next year, we have more to hope for than to be worried about..................................

...............em.... I must include a very Iris "I hope" though - just to cover my tracks.

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Post by Biltong on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 11:49 am

No fly, I am tired of relaxing, every Frak comment I make turns into a stretched out yaka yaka.

I think I am done with this Frak site
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Post by Engine#4 on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 11:50 am

Le Roux has been cited. I think a yellow card was right too but the reasoning was nonsensical. The officials decided that he had no chance of getting the ball but only received a yellow because O'Halloran landed on the top of his shoulders. How you can fall upside down onto the 'top of the shoulders' without landing on your head/neck is beyond me.

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Post by eirebilly on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 11:53 am

Biltong wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Biltong wrote:Commisserations to the Irish, the Springboks did not deserve to win the test nor the series.

I am embarressed. Such inept performances are not deserved of victory.

Yeah because this series was only close due to SA's inept performances. Ireland did not play well in any of the tests at all did they. Nor did SA play some inspirational rugby in the second half of the second test which turned the series. This series will only be remembered for SA's inept performances...

Get a grip man.

Why do you have to look at my comment in a way that denies Ireland any credit?

Why does my opinion of our performance have to be seen in a light that makes you over react?

I would suggest you should be less sensitive and accept my commisserations rather than read in between the kines whatever you want.

Not every comment is made to belittle another team or player.

Hell I remember there was a time when we could have a decent conversation rather than assaulting another's opinion

There was a time when we could have a decent conversation but through this whole series you have been a bore and constantly being negative about South African rugby.

I honestly believe that SA played some very good rugby, especially in the second half of the second test, you can see this series as inept performances from SA but I chose to see this series as one in which Ireland played some excellent rugby and took it to SA and SA responded in kind by going up a level. It was a very good series for me.
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Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 11:56 am

Biltong wrote:No fly, I am tired of relaxing, every Frak comment I make turns into a stretched out yaka yaka.

I think I am done with this Frak site

I understand the frustration... like I say, the world seems to be in a state of meltdown of norms right now with dramatic changes taking place daily, led a lot now I might add by this wild and intolerant place called social media.

People are letting their frustrations about many things feed into their behaviour online. I guess we all have to struggle through the period and perhaps find a more peaceful mood later down the line sometime.

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Post by eirebilly on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:21 pm

I am actually very happy with Ireland after that series. Before this series I felt that Ireland were stagnant and predictable but during this series, Ireland have transformed.

The players who I felt were the best options were being selected and players played in their best positions and as a result, Ireland looked a lot more balanced. May have lost the series but a hell of a lot was learnt and I feel that a few of the incumbents that were out injured may be seeing the end of their international careers.

I was also very much against Farrell joining the Irish setup but I am incredibly wrong there, it was clear to see what he has brought to the side. If Schmidt stays and continues to select the best players in their best positions and play the same style then I can see a very bright future for Ireland.
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Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:45 pm

eirebilly wrote:I am actually very happy with Ireland after that series. Before this series I felt that Ireland were stagnant and predictable but during this series, Ireland have transformed.

The players who I felt were the best options were being selected and players played in their best positions and as a result, Ireland looked a lot more balanced. May have lost the series but a hell of a lot was learnt and I feel that a few of the incumbents that were out injured may be seeing the end of their international careers.

I was also very much against Farrell joining the Irish setup but I am incredibly wrong there, it was clear to see what he has brought to the side. If Schmidt stays and continues to select the best players in their best positions and play the same style then I can see a very bright future for Ireland.

careful, billy - I'm going to have to start disagreeing with you here Wink

The players did great but they lost a series and often inexperience showed. We might have won this series had other options been available to Joe. Not a grump but simply stating an alternative view of what might have been.
The great thing is that this tour served as a great and steep learning curve for players that will be more central later - not necessarily central at present with all players being fit and ready to serve. Whistle

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Post by eirebilly on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:54 pm

I think that Ireland are developing good strength in depth Fly, strength in depth that I have not seen for a long time in Ireland.

Inexperience is naturally going to show in the first few tests new players play in.

For me, I thought that Payne showed everyone just how good he is at 15 and Ireland certainly missed him in the third test. Jackson had an excellent series and proved that he is more than up to International standard. Marshall and Olding (especially Olding) slotted in perfectly.

Good days ahead for Ireland.
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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 2:39 pm

There were a lot of reasons to feel encouraged during this tour and I think Schmidt did a fantastic job for the most part. My main criticism would be his use of substitutions in the final game. We had the chance to see a lot of new players blooded into the system and most of them took their opportunities well.

Jackson, Marshall, Olding and Furlong in particular shown us what they can bring to this future Irish team. It will be very interesting to see what happens when the absentees return. The competition is huge now.

It would be interesting to see what team people on here would like to see when everyone is fit and firing. Some very hard choices. Especially in the back row and centres.

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 12:09 am

A crap Sa team beat us. Nuff said.

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Post by rodders on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 9:14 am

Gawd have mercy, that was the week from hell! Where will it end!

Very disappointed with that performance and result. I think Ireland can take a lot of positives from the tour but that was one that got away.

Schmidt is putting a very positive spin but really that was pretty poor - scrum was destroyed, we lost the contact area and far too many individual errors, and not just from the inexperienced players - Reddan panicked at the end by shifting the ball wide.

It has to be said that Schmidt got it wrong last week, if we'd have sent a stronger team out we may well have closed out the series, instead of allowing the boks a foothold and momentum going in to the final test.
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Post by eirebilly on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 10:10 am

How did Schmidt get it wrong rodders? You know that I am not a fan of his but I thought that he was very positive this series and Ireland competed very well. SA just got stronger towards the end but I don't see that much between the two sides if I am honest.

I actually felt the loss of Payne at 15 for the final test had a big impact on the counter attack and that was were Irelands strength was in the first two tests (well 1 and a half tests).

I think a lot of credit has to go to SA for their fight back, they were down and out at half time in the second test and just came out and blew Ireland away. That is not a Schmidt error.
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Post by rodders on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 10:47 am

eirebilly wrote:How did Schmidt get it wrong rodders?

I think he clearly fielded a weakened team in the second test. If we'd have gone with a full strength side we could well have closed that one out.

It depends what the main objective of the tour was - if it was to blood players, it was extremely successful. If it was results then we let two very winnable tests slip.

Performance wise there are plenty of individual successes but overall it wasn't great. Once the springboks worked out our defensive patterns (see Pietersons try) they exposed us fairly easily. I think we showed a tactical naivety and failure to adapt after the first test.

The springboks were very poor over the 3 games but for a 30 minute burst in the second test, I think this was a really disappointing tour and think Schmidt should consider his position.
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Post by Sin é on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 10:52 am

rodders wrote:Gawd have mercy, that was the week from hell! Where will it end!.

+1000 Very Happy
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Post by Golden on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 10:56 am

Im with Rodders to a degree. We could have won all 3 of those tests. I dont understand Joes reluctance in using his bench but in both games the subs should have been introduced at least 15 minutes earlier. Every other team seems to understand its a 23 man game except us.  

Ruddock and Dillane made a big impact when they came on and the momentum shifted towards us. Dont mean to sound arrogant but I firmly believe we should have won all 3 tests.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 11:05 am

Golden wrote:Im with Rodders to a degree. We could have won all 3 of those tests. I dont understand Joes reluctance in using his bench but in both games the subs should have been introduced at least 15 minutes earlier. Every other team seems to understand its a 23 man game except us.  

Ruddock and Dillane made a big impact when they came on and the momentum shifted towards us. Dont mean to sound arrogant but I firmly believe we should have won all 3 tests.


OK

Damn it, even Martin O'Neill resisted for too long in that other damn ball game.  What the hell is wrong with coaches? - if players are wilting, they're wilting and need replacing.

Maybe it is a hard as nails development procedure to push as much stress and effort onto players as possible to see how deep they go for those reserves of greatness.  I can live with these kinds of practices and thinking if it leads to us getting much better.  

We have to wait to find out.  For now this really is the first steps of a squad genuinely moving on from the more familiar Irish sides.  Time will tell where we're getting.  I think we're looking good for a more meaty future.... but time will tell.

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Post by rodders on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 11:18 am

But yet all these sides will get a heroes welcome home and all be in thr running for RTE awards in the end of the year?

It's the pygmalian effect - Low expectations = low results,

This has been a disaster few days for Irish sport. We shouldn't bury the head in the sand.

The whole country is going down the pan.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 11:22 am

The Only Way is Up!!!!!!


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Post by eirebilly on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 11:39 am

rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:How did Schmidt get it wrong rodders?

I think he clearly fielded a weakened team in the second test. If we'd have gone with a full strength side we could well have closed that one out.

It depends what the main objective of the tour was - if it was to blood players, it was extremely successful. If it was results then we let two very winnable tests slip.

Performance wise there are plenty of individual successes but overall it wasn't great. Once the springboks worked out our defensive patterns (see Pietersons try) they exposed us fairly easily. I think we showed a tactical naivety and failure to adapt after the first test.

The springboks were very poor over the 3 games but for a 30 minute burst in the second test, I think this was a really disappointing tour and think Schmidt should consider his position.

I don't agree that Ireland sent out a weakened side for the second test myself rodders, thought it was a fairly strong team. The only issues I had in the second test was the lateness of the replacements.

I am very quick to jump on Schmidt's back if I feel the things he is doing are wrong but I really thought that the approach to this series was good. It showed me a pretty clear direction that Schmidt is taking and I am more than happy with how Ireland performed. They will only get better.
Don't forget that this series was in SA which is an incredibly hard place to come away with a series win, still gutted they didn't but that's the way things go. Had this series been played in Ireland then I firmly believe that Ireland would have won all 3 tests.
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The Final Smackdown - South Africa v Ireland 25 June 2016 - Page 5 Empty Re: The Final Smackdown - South Africa v Ireland 25 June 2016

Post by rodders on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 11:54 am

eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:How did Schmidt get it wrong rodders?

I think he clearly fielded a weakened team in the second test. If we'd have gone with a full strength side we could well have closed that one out.

It depends what the main objective of the tour was - if it was to blood players, it was extremely successful. If it was results then we let two very winnable tests slip.

Performance wise there are plenty of individual successes but overall it wasn't great. Once the springboks worked out our defensive patterns (see Pietersons try) they exposed us fairly easily. I think we showed a tactical naivety and failure to adapt after the first test.

The springboks were very poor over the 3 games but for a 30 minute burst in the second test, I think this was a really disappointing tour and think Schmidt should consider his position.

I don't agree that Ireland sent out a weakened side for the second test myself rodders, thought it was a fairly strong team. The only issues I had in the second test was the lateness of the replacements.

Come on Billser, he had the likes of Kilcoyne, Strauss and Reidy on the bench and started 3rd-4th string guys like Gilroy and Roux.

The weaknesses of the bench, versus South Africa's was a big factor in that game as much as the altitude was.

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Post by Golden on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 12:35 pm

rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:How did Schmidt get it wrong rodders?

I think he clearly fielded a weakened team in the second test. If we'd have gone with a full strength side we could well have closed that one out.

It depends what the main objective of the tour was - if it was to blood players, it was extremely successful. If it was results then we let two very winnable tests slip.

Performance wise there are plenty of individual successes but overall it wasn't great. Once the springboks worked out our defensive patterns (see Pietersons try) they exposed us fairly easily. I think we showed a tactical naivety and failure to adapt after the first test.

The springboks were very poor over the 3 games but for a 30 minute burst in the second test, I think this was a really disappointing tour and think Schmidt should consider his position.

I don't agree that Ireland sent out a weakened side for the second test myself rodders, thought it was a fairly strong team. The only issues I had in the second test was the lateness of the replacements.

Come on Billser, he had the likes of Kilcoyne, Strauss and Reidy on the bench and started 3rd-4th string guys like Gilroy and Roux.

The weaknesses of the bench, versus South Africa's was a big factor in that game as much as the altitude was.


TBF I thought Roux had a good game and actually could have stayed on the pitch a bit longer. Ryan didnt add much when he came on. The rest of that bench should have been emptied by 60 mins. If its a case of the players not been good enough. They should not have been on the bench.

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Post by Don Alfonso on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 12:39 pm

rodders wrote:But yet all these sides will get a heroes welcome home and all be in thr running for RTE awards in the end of the year?

It's the pygmalian effect - Low expectations = low results,

This has been a disaster few days for Irish sport. We shouldn't bury the head in the sand.

The whole country is going down the pan.

The "Pygmalion Effect" is the opposite - higher expectorations mean better results. I think you mean the "golem effect".

I have nothing of actual substance to add to any analysis of what has been a wilting week of Irish sports results.

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Post by rodders on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 12:41 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:
The "Pygmalion Effect" is the opposite - higher expectorations mean better results. I think you mean the "golem effect".

Indeed!
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 12:45 pm

That's how fecked we are....we can't even rumble up an agreed definition of the Pygmalian Effect.

Send on the 606 subs, we usual suspects are f**king exhausted talking shyte!

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