The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll)

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Post by Guest on Wed 22 Jun 2016, 3:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:I may have missed it on this thread but what are peoples thoughts on TTIP? Personally I think TTIP would be a a disaster for the EU, but can we fight it off?

Broadly negative but largely irrelevant as the UK would sign up to it in a flash with or without the EU.

Of course it's negative. It's a warning against TTIP and from a Nobel Prize winning economist. Strange that some here complain about the a lack of attention to 'financial experts' yet seem to brush aside the warnings of one on the worlds leading economists.

You say the UK will accept it in a flash, even if Brexit win. Why? I know Cameron will be quick to sell the UK to the highest bidder, but there are plenty of voices against TTIP, including the leader of the opposition. It would also be very doubtful that Cameron will be in power if Brexit do win.

I haven't got around to reading all the comments in reply to the TTIP article, very busy, but will once I get a break.


Last edited by Munchkin on Wed 22 Jun 2016, 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by ShahenshahG on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:20 pm

Nore Staat wrote:Are Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson really evil?  And is it a reasonable argument to be against everything they might be for?

Did you know that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian?  If one adopted the same "logic" - would that mean you should not be a vegetarian and all vegetarians are no different from Hitler?

Leave this sort of stuff to secretfly, he's good at it. You still haven't explained what particular losses of sovereignty made you vote out?

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:23 pm

Farage may not be evil, but his prime stance is one of intolerance and racism, so it's difficult to sign up to anything he feels passionate about politically, even if we were to share the same eating habits.

I'm sure there's one or two things about Donald Trump that people would find reasonable as well.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:24 pm

Coxy001 wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:I've kind of been wondering whether there was no prospect of brexit at all and some b*stards have been manipulating polls so they can make money. C*nts like Nutless Tino.

C'mon Shah, let's not be nice to Tina eh? Far too kinder words Wink

I'm giving you information, that's all! Give me a f*cking break.

Anyway, down to 1.485 from 1.495.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:25 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Are Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson really evil?  And is it a reasonable argument to be against everything they might be for?

Did you know that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian?  If one adopted the same "logic" - would that mean you should not be a vegetarian and all vegetarians are no different from Hitler?

I didn't, but that's another good reason to dislike him.

He wasn't really, though he may have become one (or at least stopped eating most meats) later on

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler_and_vegetarianism

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Post by Coxy001 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:26 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:I've kind of been wondering whether there was no prospect of brexit at all and some b*stards have been manipulating polls so they can make money. C*nts like Nutless Tino.

C'mon Shah, let's not be nice to Tina eh? Far too kinder words Wink

I'm giving you information, that's all!  Give me a f*cking break.

Anyway, down to 1.485 from 1.495.

Better than giving me HIV I suppose.

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Post by Guest on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:27 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Farage may not be evil, but his prime stance is one of intolerance and racism, so it's difficult to sign up to anything he feels passionate about politically, even if we were to share the same eating habits.

I'm sure there's one or two things about Donald Trump that people would find reasonable as well.

I would think the majority of Leave voters are not taking their lead from Farage. Being a Leave supporter does not make you a Farage supporter.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:27 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Are Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson really evil?  And is it a reasonable argument to be against everything they might be for?

Did you know that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian?  If one adopted the same "logic" - would that mean you should not be a vegetarian and all vegetarians are no different from Hitler?

I didn't, but that's another good reason to dislike him.

He wasn't really, though he may have become one (or at least stopped eating most meats) later on

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler_and_vegetarianism

Thanks for clearing that up!

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:32 pm

Nore Staat wrote:Are Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson really evil?  And is it a reasonable argument to be against everything they might be for?

Did you know that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian?  If one adopted the same "logic" - would that mean you should not be a vegetarian and all vegetarians are no different from Hitler?

On a more serious not, people are rarely all good or all evil. It's not - despite my flippant post from earlier - a sensible choice to vote Remain on the basis that you want Gove to resign, or Leave if you think it will force Cameron to do so. However, what you have is a party - UKIP - that is fundamentally racist and xenophobic, whose raison-d'etre has been this referendum for a bit, and whose very rise in the polls prior to the GE made Cameron somewhat rashly promise this recourse. I do think that merits consideration, as does the - largely - xenophobic, racist and bitterly divisive tone of the Leave campaign, full of lies and misleading statements, and conducted in what I saw as a hostile and downright nasty way. A campaign that has refused to so much as acknowledge any of the benefits of the EU - despite the fact that its leader, Boris Johnson, used to be full of praise for it, and instead relied on stoking fears of Britain being somehow overrun by migrants, while shouting down any of the sensible discussions on the risks of leaving as scaremongering.

If, in light of that, you vote for Leave, it's of course up to you.

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Post by Guest on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:35 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Are Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson really evil?  And is it a reasonable argument to be against everything they might be for?

Did you know that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian?  If one adopted the same "logic" - would that mean you should not be a vegetarian and all vegetarians are no different from Hitler?

On a more serious not, people are rarely all good or all evil. It's not - despite my flippant post from earlier - a sensible choice to vote Remain on the basis that you want Gove to resign, or Leave if you think it will force Cameron to do so. However, what you have is a party - UKIP - that is fundamentally racist and xenophobic, whose raison-d'etre has been this referendum for a bit, and whose very rise in the polls prior to the GE made Cameron somewhat rashly promise this recourse. I do think that merits consideration, as does the - largely - xenophobic, racist and bitterly divisive tone of the Leave campaign, full of lies and misleading statements, and conducted in what I saw as a hostile and downright nasty way. A campaign that has refused to so much as acknowledge any of the benefits of the EU - despite the fact that its leader, Boris Johnson, used to be full of praise for it, and instead relied on stoking fears of Britain being somehow overrun by migrants, while shouting down any of the sensible discussions on the risks of leaving as scaremongering.

If, in light of that, you vote for Leave, it's of course up to you.

Nonsense, just nonsense and hypocritical.

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Post by Guest on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:35 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Are Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson really evil?  And is it a reasonable argument to be against everything they might be for?

Did you know that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian?  If one adopted the same "logic" - would that mean you should not be a vegetarian and all vegetarians are no different from Hitler?

Leave this sort of stuff to secretfly, he's good at it. You still haven't explained what particular losses of sovereignty made you vote out?
Like I explain something to a school kid or provide a link or a reference but then they continue to feign ignorance - just so they can act all gestapo like. Now then what's all this nonsense young gertrude I shall have to get my big stick out if you don't answer the question you have already answered.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:38 pm

Munchkin wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Farage may not be evil, but his prime stance is one of intolerance and racism, so it's difficult to sign up to anything he feels passionate about politically, even if we were to share the same eating habits.

I'm sure there's one or two things about Donald Trump that people would find reasonable as well.

I would think the majority of Leave voters are not taking their lead from Farage. Being a Leave supporter does not make you a Farage supporter.

Wasn't suggesting that. I'm sure lots of Leave voters also think he's a deplorable racist.

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Post by Guest on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:39 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Farage may not be evil, but his prime stance is one of intolerance and racism, so it's difficult to sign up to anything he feels passionate about politically, even if we were to share the same eating habits.

I'm sure there's one or two things about Donald Trump that people would find reasonable as well.

I would think the majority of Leave voters are not taking their lead from Farage. Being a Leave supporter does not make you a Farage supporter.

Wasn't suggesting that. I'm sure lots of Leave voters also think he's a deplorable racist.

I'm sure lots of people think lots of things about both sides of the debate.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:41 pm

Coxy001 wrote:Not sure what you've been looking at Duty but odds for leave are drifting :

https://m.oddschecker.com/m/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

(Look at the colour codes)

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result/bet-history/remain/today

It was 1/12 on Betfair until 13:29, then it was 1/8 by 13:56.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:41 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Are Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson really evil?  And is it a reasonable argument to be against everything they might be for?

Did you know that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian?  If one adopted the same "logic" - would that mean you should not be a vegetarian and all vegetarians are no different from Hitler?

On a more serious not, people are rarely all good or all evil. It's not - despite my flippant post from earlier - a sensible choice to vote Remain on the basis that you want Gove to resign, or Leave if you think it will force Cameron to do so. However, what you have is a party - UKIP - that is fundamentally racist and xenophobic, whose raison-d'etre has been this referendum for a bit, and whose very rise in the polls prior to the GE made Cameron somewhat rashly promise this recourse. I do think that merits consideration, as does the - largely - xenophobic, racist and bitterly divisive tone of the Leave campaign, full of lies and misleading statements, and conducted in what I saw as a hostile and downright nasty way. A campaign that has refused to so much as acknowledge any of the benefits of the EU - despite the fact that its leader, Boris Johnson, used to be full of praise for it, and instead relied on stoking fears of Britain being somehow overrun by migrants, while shouting down any of the sensible discussions on the risks of leaving as scaremongering.

If, in light of that, you vote for Leave, it's of course up to you.

Nonsense, just nonsense and hypocritical.

It really isn't. Every debate I've watched has been forced onto the topic of immigration by the Leave campaign. Why? Because they know it's the only area they can get an edge, by appealing to people's basest instincts, which is a distrust of "the other". They know that on the economy, the NHS (the lies they continue to tell), Universities, etc. they are well beaten, so they bring it back to foreigners apparently abusing our resources. I would have been willing to listen - if not, probably, to change my mind - to a positive campaign emphasising how much more Britain could do for its own people and the world by leaving the EU, but there's been no such campaign.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:43 pm

Munchkin wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Farage may not be evil, but his prime stance is one of intolerance and racism, so it's difficult to sign up to anything he feels passionate about politically, even if we were to share the same eating habits.

I'm sure there's one or two things about Donald Trump that people would find reasonable as well.

I would think the majority of Leave voters are not taking their lead from Farage. Being a Leave supporter does not make you a Farage supporter.

Wasn't suggesting that. I'm sure lots of Leave voters also think he's a deplorable racist.

I'm sure lots of people think lots of things about both sides of the debate.

Obviously. But someone asked about Farage, so I answered. Pardon me for being unreasonable.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:44 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:However, what you have is a party - UKIP - that is fundamentally racist and xenophobic,

Absolute idiocy.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:49 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:However, what you have is a party - UKIP - that is fundamentally racist and xenophobic,

Absolute idiocy.

It's a hard slog not to be a fundamentally racist and xenophobic party when the party leader is fundamentally racist and xenophobic.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:53 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:However, what you have is a party - UKIP - that is fundamentally racist and xenophobic,

Absolute idiocy.

It's a hard slog not to be a fundamentally racist and xenophobic party when the party leader is fundamentally racist and xenophobic.

On the first page of their manifesto for the local elections, the words "immigration, immigrants, migrants" are mentioned seven times, the word "foreign" three times, all with a negative connotation. The case is clear, they believe that "foreigners" and "immigrants" are bad, or at least inferior to proper British people. That's surely the very definition of xenophobia?

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:54 pm

Sterling's getting hammered.

Back below 1.48 now......

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:55 pm

Yeah, that old bas*ard Nigel. Married to a German, and being the first party leader in this country to say we should take in Syrian refugees.

Bloody xenophobe. He should stop working with the Europe for Freedom and Direct Democracy group, as well!

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Post by Guest on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:56 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Are Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson really evil?  And is it a reasonable argument to be against everything they might be for?

Did you know that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian?  If one adopted the same "logic" - would that mean you should not be a vegetarian and all vegetarians are no different from Hitler?

On a more serious not, people are rarely all good or all evil. It's not - despite my flippant post from earlier - a sensible choice to vote Remain on the basis that you want Gove to resign, or Leave if you think it will force Cameron to do so. However, what you have is a party - UKIP - that is fundamentally racist and xenophobic, whose raison-d'etre has been this referendum for a bit, and whose very rise in the polls prior to the GE made Cameron somewhat rashly promise this recourse. I do think that merits consideration, as does the - largely - xenophobic, racist and bitterly divisive tone of the Leave campaign, full of lies and misleading statements, and conducted in what I saw as a hostile and downright nasty way. A campaign that has refused to so much as acknowledge any of the benefits of the EU - despite the fact that its leader, Boris Johnson, used to be full of praise for it, and instead relied on stoking fears of Britain being somehow overrun by migrants, while shouting down any of the sensible discussions on the risks of leaving as scaremongering.

If, in light of that, you vote for Leave, it's of course up to you.

Nonsense, just nonsense and hypocritical.

It really isn't. Every debate I've watched has been forced onto the topic of immigration by the Leave campaign. Why? Because they know it's the only area they can get an edge, by appealing to people's basest instincts, which is a distrust of "the other". They know that on the economy, the NHS (the lies they continue to tell), Universities, etc. they are well beaten, so they bring it back to foreigners apparently abusing our resources. I would have been willing to listen - if not, probably, to change my mind - to a positive campaign emphasising how much more Britain could do for its own people and the world by leaving the EU, but there's been no such campaign.

It really is.

Arguing against the current EU policy doesn't make one a racist. That's blatant nonsense. As someone who has voted Remain (I feel grubby for doing so, but the lesser of two evils, methinks) I have very real concerns about the EU open door policy. I'm not close to being a racist, and I don't take issue with the number of migrants. I do have concerns about migrant exploitation.

There are reasoned economic arguments against remaining within the EU, and one that I have seen by a Nobel Prize winning, world leading, economist. The only reason I support staying in is because I don't trust that the UK will recover quickly from an economic slump, post Brexit. There isn't much I like about the EU and if I believed the UK's economy would quickly recover any loses in the event of a Brexit, I would have voted out.

Both sides in this debate have behaved terribly and is indicative of just how low UK politics have sank.


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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:56 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Sterling's getting hammered.

Back below 1.48 now......

Oh yes, Betfair down to 9/2 now. Remain down to 1/6, from 1/12 a couple of hours ago.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:59 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Sterling's getting hammered.

Back below 1.48 now......

Oh yes, Betfair down to 9/2 now. Remain down to 1/6, from 1/12 a couple of hours ago.

Gold is getting bought as well. Safe-haven.

Maybe someone knows something.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:01 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Sterling's getting hammered.

Back below 1.48 now......

Oh yes, Betfair down to 9/2 now. Remain down to 1/6, from 1/12 a couple of hours ago.

Gold is getting bought as well.  Safe-haven.

Maybe someone knows something.

Don't torture me with false hope! Very Happy

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:03 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Sterling's getting hammered.

Back below 1.48 now......

Oh yes, Betfair down to 9/2 now. Remain down to 1/6, from 1/12 a couple of hours ago.

Gold is getting bought as well.  Safe-haven.

Maybe someone knows something.

Don't torture me with false hope! Very Happy

It's all over the place now. Back to 1.4835.

It's up and down like you on Tom Daley.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:07 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Sterling's getting hammered.

Back below 1.48 now......

Oh yes, Betfair down to 9/2 now. Remain down to 1/6, from 1/12 a couple of hours ago.

Gold is getting bought as well.  Safe-haven.

Maybe someone knows something.

Don't torture me with false hope! Very Happy

It's all over the place now.  Back to 1.4835.

It's up and down like you on Tom Daley.

Hmmm...I'm so selfish I think I'd trade an independent Britain for one night with Master Daley!

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Post by dyrewolfe on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:17 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Sterling's getting hammered.

Back below 1.48 now......

Oh yes, Betfair down to 9/2 now. Remain down to 1/6, from 1/12 a couple of hours ago.

Gold is getting bought as well.  Safe-haven.

Maybe someone knows something.

Don't torture me with false hope! Very Happy

It's all over the place now.  Back to 1.4835.

It's up and down like you on Tom Daley.

Hmmm...I'm so selfish I think I'd trade an independent Britain for one night with Master Daley!


I'm so unselfish I'd be prepared to do (my) Duty for an independent Britain. drumroll
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Post by ShahenshahG on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:18 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Sterling's getting hammered.

Back below 1.48 now......

Oh yes, Betfair down to 9/2 now. Remain down to 1/6, from 1/12 a couple of hours ago.

Gold is getting bought as well.  Safe-haven.

Maybe someone knows something.

Don't torture me with false hope! Very Happy

It's all over the place now.  Back to 1.4835.

It's up and down like you on Tom Daley.

Hmmm...I'm so selfish I think I'd trade an independent Britain for one night with Master Daley!


I'm so unselfish I'd be prepared to do (my) Duty for an independent Britain. drumroll

That'd be like duty having his cake and eating it too.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:22 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Sterling's getting hammered.

Back below 1.48 now......

Oh yes, Betfair down to 9/2 now. Remain down to 1/6, from 1/12 a couple of hours ago.

Gold is getting bought as well.  Safe-haven.

Maybe someone knows something.

Don't torture me with false hope! Very Happy

It's all over the place now.  Back to 1.4835.

It's up and down like you on Tom Daley.

Hmmm...I'm so selfish I think I'd trade an independent Britain for one night with Master Daley!


I'm so unselfish I'd be prepared to do (my) Duty for an independent Britain. drumroll

That'd be like duty having his cake and eating it too.


Also gives "playing Call of Duty" a whole new meaning. Shocked

Still, I have cake too, if that helps.
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Post by Guest on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:24 pm

So both here at home and at England's training camp in France, no-one has a f*cking clue what Sterling is doing!

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:25 pm

DAVE667 wrote:So both here at home and at England's training camp in France, no-one has a f*cking clue what Sterling is doing!

l*l out loud.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Alex_Germany on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:25 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
I'm so unselfish I'd be prepared to do (my) Duty for an independent Britain. drumroll
That's a Remain then?

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:26 pm

Duty281 wrote:Yeah, that old bas*ard Nigel. Married to a German, and being the first party leader in this country to say we should take in Syrian refugees.

Bloody xenophobe. He should stop working with the Europe for Freedom and Direct Democracy group, as well!

Oh please!! Firstly he refused to put a number of the refugees that Britain should accept, rendering his sentiment a completely meaningless act of political tokenism, and then several years later, he had the gall to criticise Europe for taking too many. He called Europe "mad" for sheltering the refugees, and his MEPs heckled Juncker for suggesting that it was a matter of "humanity and human dignity". Juncker even had to interrupt his speech because of Farage and Coburn trying to shout him down.

Farage's solution was to "stop the boats coming" and have offshore reception centres to assess the claims of each and every refugee to ensure that they are the right sort (i.e. fleeing their country for fear of their lives) rather than bad economic migrants (i.e. fleeing their country due to extreme poverty in the hope of a better life). It sounds like one of these dystopian novels - Orwell and Huxley would be proud.

We should, as a country, have fully participated in the EU quota system and taken our share. Cameron was weak. Farage was a disgrace.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:33 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Yeah, that old bas*ard Nigel. Married to a German, and being the first party leader in this country to say we should take in Syrian refugees.

Bloody xenophobe. He should stop working with the Europe for Freedom and Direct Democracy group, as well!

Oh please!! Firstly he refused to put a number of the refugees that Britain should accept, rendering his sentiment a completely meaningless act of political tokenism, and then several years later, he had the gall to criticise Europe for taking too many. He called Europe "mad" for sheltering the refugees, and his MEPs heckled Juncker for suggesting that it was a matter of "humanity and human dignity". Juncker even had to interrupt his speech because of Farage and Coburn trying to shout him down.

Farage's solution was to "stop the boats coming" and have offshore reception centres to assess the claims of each and every refugee to ensure that they are the right sort (i.e. fleeing their country for fear of their lives) rather than bad economic migrants (i.e. fleeing their country due to extreme poverty in the hope of a better life). It sounds like one of these dystopian novels - Orwell and Huxley would be proud.

We should, as a country, have fully participated in the EU quota system and taken our share. Cameron was weak. Farage was a disgrace.

We should have stopped the boats coming. Inviting anyone over (refugee or economic migrant), as Merkel did, led to a multitude of needless and tragic deaths.

Also, as Farage correctly pointed out, there were many other countries - such as Saudi Arabia - who didn't take any refugees when they should have been expected to.

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Post by Coxy001 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:35 pm

Guys, no offence but no amount of bickering now of which way to vote is going to solve much.

We should instead now focus on bickering about the various clues and hints we could find from the bookies/sterling/rumour mill over the next coming hours.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:36 pm

Coxy001 wrote:

We should instead now focus on bickering about the various clues and hints we could find from the bookies/sterling/rumour mill over the next coming hours.

1.4760. Down from a high of 1.4950.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by ShahenshahG on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:36 pm

Duty281 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Yeah, that old bas*ard Nigel. Married to a German, and being the first party leader in this country to say we should take in Syrian refugees.

Bloody xenophobe. He should stop working with the Europe for Freedom and Direct Democracy group, as well!

Oh please!! Firstly he refused to put a number of the refugees that Britain should accept, rendering his sentiment a completely meaningless act of political tokenism, and then several years later, he had the gall to criticise Europe for taking too many. He called Europe "mad" for sheltering the refugees, and his MEPs heckled Juncker for suggesting that it was a matter of "humanity and human dignity". Juncker even had to interrupt his speech because of Farage and Coburn trying to shout him down.

Farage's solution was to "stop the boats coming" and have offshore reception centres to assess the claims of each and every refugee to ensure that they are the right sort (i.e. fleeing their country for fear of their lives) rather than bad economic migrants (i.e. fleeing their country due to extreme poverty in the hope of a better life). It sounds like one of these dystopian novels - Orwell and Huxley would be proud.

We should, as a country, have fully participated in the EU quota system and taken our share. Cameron was weak. Farage was a disgrace.

We should have stopped the boats coming. Inviting anyone over (refugee or economic migrant), as Merkel did, led to a multitude of needless and tragic deaths.

Also, as Farage correctly pointed out, there were many other countries - such as Saudi Arabia - who didn't take any refugees when they should have been expected to.

You sure about that Duty? Look it up properly

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:38 pm

Coxy001 wrote:Guys, no offence but no amount of bickering now of which way to vote is going to solve much.

We should instead now focus on bickering about the various clues and hints we could find from the bookies/sterling/rumour mill over the next coming hours.

Remain will win. 53.5-46.5 final prediction.

But we will vote for Leave in my town - does that mean we can claim independence?! I'll ask Ms. Sturgeon...

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:38 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Yeah, that old bas*ard Nigel. Married to a German, and being the first party leader in this country to say we should take in Syrian refugees.

Bloody xenophobe. He should stop working with the Europe for Freedom and Direct Democracy group, as well!

Oh please!! Firstly he refused to put a number of the refugees that Britain should accept, rendering his sentiment a completely meaningless act of political tokenism, and then several years later, he had the gall to criticise Europe for taking too many. He called Europe "mad" for sheltering the refugees, and his MEPs heckled Juncker for suggesting that it was a matter of "humanity and human dignity". Juncker even had to interrupt his speech because of Farage and Coburn trying to shout him down.

Farage's solution was to "stop the boats coming" and have offshore reception centres to assess the claims of each and every refugee to ensure that they are the right sort (i.e. fleeing their country for fear of their lives) rather than bad economic migrants (i.e. fleeing their country due to extreme poverty in the hope of a better life). It sounds like one of these dystopian novels - Orwell and Huxley would be proud.

We should, as a country, have fully participated in the EU quota system and taken our share. Cameron was weak. Farage was a disgrace.

We should have stopped the boats coming. Inviting anyone over (refugee or economic migrant), as Merkel did, led to a multitude of needless and tragic deaths.

Also, as Farage correctly pointed out, there were many other countries - such as Saudi Arabia - who didn't take any refugees when they should have been expected to.

You sure about that Duty? Look it up properly

About which claim?

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:45 pm

Duty281 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Yeah, that old bas*ard Nigel. Married to a German, and being the first party leader in this country to say we should take in Syrian refugees.

Bloody xenophobe. He should stop working with the Europe for Freedom and Direct Democracy group, as well!

Oh please!! Firstly he refused to put a number of the refugees that Britain should accept, rendering his sentiment a completely meaningless act of political tokenism, and then several years later, he had the gall to criticise Europe for taking too many. He called Europe "mad" for sheltering the refugees, and his MEPs heckled Juncker for suggesting that it was a matter of "humanity and human dignity". Juncker even had to interrupt his speech because of Farage and Coburn trying to shout him down.

Farage's solution was to "stop the boats coming" and have offshore reception centres to assess the claims of each and every refugee to ensure that they are the right sort (i.e. fleeing their country for fear of their lives) rather than bad economic migrants (i.e. fleeing their country due to extreme poverty in the hope of a better life). It sounds like one of these dystopian novels - Orwell and Huxley would be proud.

We should, as a country, have fully participated in the EU quota system and taken our share. Cameron was weak. Farage was a disgrace.

We should have stopped the boats coming. Inviting anyone over (refugee or economic migrant), as Merkel did, led to a multitude of needless and tragic deaths.

Also, as Farage correctly pointed out, there were many other countries - such as Saudi Arabia - who didn't take any refugees when they should have been expected to.

Ah, the Katy Hopkins position - stop the cockroaches with gun boats!

I also find the point about Saudi Arabia frankly deplorable, and exactly the sort of race to the moral doldrums that UKIP seem promote. Why on earth should Britain think that the behaviour of a place like Saudi Arabia serves as a benchmark for how we behave?? This is a country in which public executions are frequently performed, which openly endorses discrimination at a variety of levels and which imprisons people for exercising free speech. We are nothing like Saudi Arabia, and its disgusting behaviour as a country should not be used as a yardstick for the UK to also behave in a deplorable and inhumane way. North Korea didn't take refugees either.

Merkel has been an outstanding leader throughout this tragic crisis. She has been a beacon in these dark political times.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:46 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:

We should instead now focus on bickering about the various clues and hints we could find from the bookies/sterling/rumour mill over the next coming hours.

1.4760.  Down from a high of 1.4950.

Back through 1.48 now. Volatility has definitely moved up a notch.

Could just be the septics second guessing things. It's much more choppy than this morning though.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:47 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:Guys, no offence but no amount of bickering now of which way to vote is going to solve much.

We should instead now focus on bickering about the various clues and hints we could find from the bookies/sterling/rumour mill over the next coming hours.

Remain will win. 53.5-46.5 final prediction.

But we will vote for Leave in my town - does that mean we can claim independence?! I'll ask Ms. Sturgeon...

She'd tell you that it entitles you to a referendum, but haven't Yorkshire been wanting one of those for some time anyway??

Not sure how the rUK would cope without you.....less good at cricket I suppose.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:48 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Yeah, that old bas*ard Nigel. Married to a German, and being the first party leader in this country to say we should take in Syrian refugees.

Bloody xenophobe. He should stop working with the Europe for Freedom and Direct Democracy group, as well!

Oh please!! Firstly he refused to put a number of the refugees that Britain should accept, rendering his sentiment a completely meaningless act of political tokenism, and then several years later, he had the gall to criticise Europe for taking too many. He called Europe "mad" for sheltering the refugees, and his MEPs heckled Juncker for suggesting that it was a matter of "humanity and human dignity". Juncker even had to interrupt his speech because of Farage and Coburn trying to shout him down.

Farage's solution was to "stop the boats coming" and have offshore reception centres to assess the claims of each and every refugee to ensure that they are the right sort (i.e. fleeing their country for fear of their lives) rather than bad economic migrants (i.e. fleeing their country due to extreme poverty in the hope of a better life). It sounds like one of these dystopian novels - Orwell and Huxley would be proud.

We should, as a country, have fully participated in the EU quota system and taken our share. Cameron was weak. Farage was a disgrace.

We should have stopped the boats coming. Inviting anyone over (refugee or economic migrant), as Merkel did, led to a multitude of needless and tragic deaths.

Also, as Farage correctly pointed out, there were many other countries - such as Saudi Arabia - who didn't take any refugees when they should have been expected to.

Ah, the Katy Hopkins position - stop the cockroaches with gun boats!

I also find the point about Saudi Arabia frankly deplorable, and exactly the sort of race to the moral doldrums that UKIP seem promote. Why on earth should Britain think that the behaviour of a place like Saudi Arabia serves as a benchmark for how we behave?? This is a country in which public executions are frequently performed, which openly endorses discrimination at a variety of levels and which imprisons people for exercising free speech. We are nothing like Saudi Arabia, and its disgusting behaviour as a country should not be used as a yardstick for the UK to also behave in a deplorable and inhumane way. North Korea didn't take refugees either.

Merkel has been an outstanding leader throughout this tragic crisis. She has been a beacon in these dark political times.

We should take refugees. We are taking refugees. UKIP support this, Farage supports this, I support it.

Tell the victims in Cologne, and other parts of Germany, that Merkel has been an outstanding leader.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:49 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:

We should instead now focus on bickering about the various clues and hints we could find from the bookies/sterling/rumour mill over the next coming hours.

1.4760.  Down from a high of 1.4950.

Back through 1.48 now.  Volatility has definitely moved up a notch.

Could just be the septics second guessing things.  It's much more choppy than this morning though.

Most bookmakers have it at 4s or 9/2s that Leave will win, which is an improvement (for me!) from this morning.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:56 pm

Duty281 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Yeah, that old bas*ard Nigel. Married to a German, and being the first party leader in this country to say we should take in Syrian refugees.

Bloody xenophobe. He should stop working with the Europe for Freedom and Direct Democracy group, as well!

Oh please!! Firstly he refused to put a number of the refugees that Britain should accept, rendering his sentiment a completely meaningless act of political tokenism, and then several years later, he had the gall to criticise Europe for taking too many. He called Europe "mad" for sheltering the refugees, and his MEPs heckled Juncker for suggesting that it was a matter of "humanity and human dignity". Juncker even had to interrupt his speech because of Farage and Coburn trying to shout him down.

Farage's solution was to "stop the boats coming" and have offshore reception centres to assess the claims of each and every refugee to ensure that they are the right sort (i.e. fleeing their country for fear of their lives) rather than bad economic migrants (i.e. fleeing their country due to extreme poverty in the hope of a better life). It sounds like one of these dystopian novels - Orwell and Huxley would be proud.

We should, as a country, have fully participated in the EU quota system and taken our share. Cameron was weak. Farage was a disgrace.

We should have stopped the boats coming. Inviting anyone over (refugee or economic migrant), as Merkel did, led to a multitude of needless and tragic deaths.

Also, as Farage correctly pointed out, there were many other countries - such as Saudi Arabia - who didn't take any refugees when they should have been expected to.

Ah, the Katy Hopkins position - stop the cockroaches with gun boats!

I also find the point about Saudi Arabia frankly deplorable, and exactly the sort of race to the moral doldrums that UKIP seem promote. Why on earth should Britain think that the behaviour of a place like Saudi Arabia serves as a benchmark for how we behave?? This is a country in which public executions are frequently performed, which openly endorses discrimination at a variety of levels and which imprisons people for exercising free speech. We are nothing like Saudi Arabia, and its disgusting behaviour as a country should not be used as a yardstick for the UK to also behave in a deplorable and inhumane way. North Korea didn't take refugees either.

Merkel has been an outstanding leader throughout this tragic crisis. She has been a beacon in these dark political times.

We should take refugees. We are taking refugees. UKIP support this, Farage supports this, I support it.

Tell the victims in Cologne, and other parts of Germany, that Merkel has been an outstanding leader.

Not enough, and nowhere near our share as compared to other EU member states. We should be taking more, but Cameron opposes it, Farage opposes it, UKIP opposes it and, I would suspect, you oppose it.

I think Farage made his views pretty clear with his poster. What did you make of that? I personally thought it was gut-wrenchingly sad that a party with 12.4% of the vote at the General Election would have sad down and thought that image was acceptable (I also think it was a massive political own goal). At least Gove had the sense to call it out.

I will tell anyone who cares to listen that Merkel has been an outstanding leader.

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Post by Guest on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:58 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:So both here at home and at England's training camp in France, no-one has a f*cking clue what Sterling is doing!

l*l out loud.
Cheers Tina, glad someone appreciated it...

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 4:07 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Yeah, that old bas*ard Nigel. Married to a German, and being the first party leader in this country to say we should take in Syrian refugees.

Bloody xenophobe. He should stop working with the Europe for Freedom and Direct Democracy group, as well!

Oh please!! Firstly he refused to put a number of the refugees that Britain should accept, rendering his sentiment a completely meaningless act of political tokenism, and then several years later, he had the gall to criticise Europe for taking too many. He called Europe "mad" for sheltering the refugees, and his MEPs heckled Juncker for suggesting that it was a matter of "humanity and human dignity". Juncker even had to interrupt his speech because of Farage and Coburn trying to shout him down.

Farage's solution was to "stop the boats coming" and have offshore reception centres to assess the claims of each and every refugee to ensure that they are the right sort (i.e. fleeing their country for fear of their lives) rather than bad economic migrants (i.e. fleeing their country due to extreme poverty in the hope of a better life). It sounds like one of these dystopian novels - Orwell and Huxley would be proud.

We should, as a country, have fully participated in the EU quota system and taken our share. Cameron was weak. Farage was a disgrace.

We should have stopped the boats coming. Inviting anyone over (refugee or economic migrant), as Merkel did, led to a multitude of needless and tragic deaths.

Also, as Farage correctly pointed out, there were many other countries - such as Saudi Arabia - who didn't take any refugees when they should have been expected to.

Ah, the Katy Hopkins position - stop the cockroaches with gun boats!

I also find the point about Saudi Arabia frankly deplorable, and exactly the sort of race to the moral doldrums that UKIP seem promote. Why on earth should Britain think that the behaviour of a place like Saudi Arabia serves as a benchmark for how we behave?? This is a country in which public executions are frequently performed, which openly endorses discrimination at a variety of levels and which imprisons people for exercising free speech. We are nothing like Saudi Arabia, and its disgusting behaviour as a country should not be used as a yardstick for the UK to also behave in a deplorable and inhumane way. North Korea didn't take refugees either.

Merkel has been an outstanding leader throughout this tragic crisis. She has been a beacon in these dark political times.

We should take refugees. We are taking refugees. UKIP support this, Farage supports this, I support it.

Tell the victims in Cologne, and other parts of Germany, that Merkel has been an outstanding leader.

Not enough, and nowhere near our share as compared to other EU member states. We should be taking more, but Cameron opposes it, Farage opposes it, UKIP opposes it and, I would suspect, you oppose it.

I think Farage made his views pretty clear with his poster. What did you make of that? I personally thought it was gut-wrenchingly sad that a party with 12.4% of the vote at the General Election would have sad down and thought that image was acceptable (I also think it was a massive political own goal). At least Gove had the sense to call it out.

I will tell anyone who cares to listen that Merkel has been an outstanding leader.

We have to take as many as we can manage and we must recognise that our infrastructure is more stretched than other nations. I'm not sure what that number would be, but we must do our duty towards refugees. It would, however, be counter-productive to take more than we can manage.

I think the poster is partly there to show the complete failure by the EU of the migrant crisis, and partly as a 'shock' to ensure that it becomes headline news and gets greater visibility in the process. Either way, I believe it to be ill-advised.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 4:28 pm

Hitler was also a drug addict. But he had impeccably neat hair. And a great public speaker.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 4:30 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:Guys, no offence but no amount of bickering now of which way to vote is going to solve much.

We should instead now focus on bickering about the various clues and hints we could find from the bookies/sterling/rumour mill over the next coming hours.

Remain will win. 53.5-46.5 final prediction.

But we will vote for Leave in my town - does that mean we can claim independence?! I'll ask Ms. Sturgeon...

You could. In theory, there is no reason why independence should stop at arbitrary geographical boundaries. If I felt strongly enough that the identity of the West Midlands was being diluted by smelly Northerners, I ought to be able to campaign for WMexit from GB. Why not?

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 4:30 pm

Sterling now lower than at the start of the day.

It's all this rain in the South-East, the London Remainians don't like getting their hair wet!

Odds - 1/6 Remain. 9/2 Leave.

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