The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll)

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Post by Guest on Wed 22 Jun 2016, 3:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:I may have missed it on this thread but what are peoples thoughts on TTIP? Personally I think TTIP would be a a disaster for the EU, but can we fight it off?

Broadly negative but largely irrelevant as the UK would sign up to it in a flash with or without the EU.

Of course it's negative. It's a warning against TTIP and from a Nobel Prize winning economist. Strange that some here complain about the a lack of attention to 'financial experts' yet seem to brush aside the warnings of one on the worlds leading economists.

You say the UK will accept it in a flash, even if Brexit win. Why? I know Cameron will be quick to sell the UK to the highest bidder, but there are plenty of voices against TTIP, including the leader of the opposition. It would also be very doubtful that Cameron will be in power if Brexit do win.

I haven't got around to reading all the comments in reply to the TTIP article, very busy, but will once I get a break.


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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:11 am

Nore Staat wrote:What a weak loser our PM was.  Reminds me of the way Ed Milliband left labour in the lurch when he couldn't hack it.

He led Britain into this referendum, conducted it disastrously and now quits.

I suspected these politicians were the weakest we have ever had and I have been proved right.
Sorry. I must be missing something. Why the Hell would he stick around?? Let Gove et al sort out the mess - they've caused it.

In addition, I hope every over 65 who voted 'out' chokes on their cereal this morning. Damned retirees who've now helped to screw over those who have to work to fund their pensions. They must think it's still pre-Suez...
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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:12 am

Nore Staat wrote:A British truck driver thanking EC Leader Mr Jean-Claude Juncker for his speech two days ago saying that there would be no further deals with Britain - for persuading him and others to vote leave.

At least he told the truth. Would you prefer he lied then reneged?

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:13 am

Ent wrote:There are years of uncertainty ahead.

Yes, that we can all agree on. But uncertainty does not mean a bad thing, we should embrace this, we should show the world now what we can do, other countries will stand up and look at us and think, why can't we be doing this ? We are GREAT Britain, lets be it again.

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Post by Guest on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:13 am

Seems like we have quite a few gloaters this morning who would be happy to see Britain sink.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:13 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:Still, thank goodness the Leave team were correct after all, and that a vote to Leave won't have a negative affect on the economy. FTSE and pound relatively unaffected.
Laugh Seen the FTSE 250? You have to laugh...
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Post by GSC on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:15 am

Nobody would be happy to see England sink. People legitimately believe we will emerge stronger however, in fact the majority of people who voted do
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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:16 am

Nore Staat wrote:Seems like we have quite a few gloaters this morning who would be happy to see Britain sink.
Seriously? You want 'grafters' to fix this? There wouldn't be anything to 'fix' if the vote went the other way.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:21 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Ent wrote:There are years of uncertainty ahead.

Yes, that we can all agree on. But uncertainty does not mean a bad thing, we should embrace this, we should show the world now what we can do, other countries will stand up and look at us and think, why can't we be doing this ? We are GREAT Britain, lets be it again.
Honestly? Listen to yourself. We don't have an Empire to rip resources out of anymore I'm afraid and we've just left one of the main players as a trading block. All nicely dressed up under 'immigration'. By 2030 we might be back where we are today. Well done.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:23 am

Duty my fellow sophisticated friend, happy days thumbsup

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:24 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Ent wrote:There are years of uncertainty ahead.

Yes, that we can all agree on. But uncertainty does not mean a bad thing, we should embrace this, we should show the world now what we can do, other countries will stand up and look at us and think, why can't we be doing this ? We are GREAT Britain, lets be it again.
Honestly? Listen to yourself. We don't have an Empire to rip resources out of anymore I'm afraid and we've just left one of the main players as a trading block. All nicely dressed up under 'immigration'. By 2030 we might be back where we are today. Well done.

Isn't that EU business rates guy? Laugh

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:25 am

First potential job losses announced. Gee, and I thought it was just scare-mongering.
http://www.efinancialnews.com/story/2016-06-24/jp-morgan-moves-brexit?mod=home-top

Happy days mikey? Tell that to the people losing their jobs - I'm sure it will cheer them up.

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:26 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Seems like we have quite a few gloaters this morning who would be happy to see Britain sink.
Seriously? You want 'grafters' to fix this? There wouldn't be anything to 'fix' if the vote went the other way.

 Gloaters versus The Doom Merchants.


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Post by Alex_Germany on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:32 am

Well, thanks for all the debate. At least it's been quite civilised here.

Pound down about 10% - admittedly less than I feared. This must be the first time a population has actually voted for a 10% pay cut. I was very surprised when Sunderland came in, like: "urine off Nissan, we prefer Government handouts".

I suspect Scotland will get it's independence now and remain in the EU on the UK's terms. Gibraltar might then apply to stay with Scotland.

The EU will offer a "Norway package" to the UK, which should limit the economic damage:
- Similar levels of net payment as now
- Access to the single market
- Freedom of movement of labour
- Full acceptance of EU standards and regulations as applied to the single market (I believe the UKEngland and Wales will be able to send observers to comment on the standards
- UK passports won't have the EU mentioned on the front

Anyway, my flight out is booked for tomorrow. The UK won't be leaving for 3 years by which time I'll be eligible for a German passport. Good luck to all you remaining.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:32 am

Farage just been on TV saying the £350 million a week for the NHS claim was 'a mistake'.
You couldn't make this stuff up!

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:34 am

navyblueshorts wrote:We don't have an Empire to rip resources out of anymore I'm afraid

We did not rip them out of the EU either. So what point are you trying to make ?

The UK now needs to be focusing on China, USA, India and all the other massively growing economies. Not the lame duck that is the EU. How many countries within the EU are buggered ? Spain, Greece, Ireland, Portugal, how many more bailouts are there going to be ?


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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:35 am

Doesnt matter - the ones who voted for leave will suffer the most as a broad demographic. It's been done, no matter what lie convinced who to vote for what. I suspect wales is going to regret it the most.

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Post by GSC on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:35 am

There's an element of self correction, the markets bet heavily on remain in the run up.
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Post by aucklandlaurie on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:38 am

LordDowlais wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:We don't have an Empire to rip resources out of anymore I'm afraid

We did not rip them out of the EU either. So what point are you trying to make ?

The UK now needs to be focusing on China, USA, India and all the other massively growing economies. Not the lame duck that is the EU. How many countries within the EU are buggered ? Spain, Greece, Ireland, Portugal, how many more bailouts are there going to be ?


LD you could even resume trade with New Zealand, we sell you some good rugby players and you could sell us Morris Marinas.....only joking.

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:39 am

GSC wrote:There's an element of self correction, the markets bet heavily on remain in the run up.

Shows how smart the economists/analysts are.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:43 am

LordDowlais wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:We don't have an Empire to rip resources out of anymore I'm afraid

We did not rip them out of the EU either. So what point are you trying to make ?

The UK now needs to be focusing on China, USA, India and all the other massively growing economies. Not the lame duck that is the EU. How many countries within the EU are buggered ? Spain, Greece, Ireland, Portugal, how many more bailouts are there going to be ?

Thanks awfully, Lord. Wink I personally blame the Pro12 for our current buggerdness.

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:43 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:LD you could even resume trade with New Zealand, we sell you some good rugby players and you could sell us Morris Marinas.....only joking.

That would cost us a fortune in Morris Marinas. Laugh

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:45 am

SecretFly wrote:Thanks awfully, Lord. I personally blame the Pro12 for our current buggerdness.

I blame the refs. Wink

But seriously, how much did it cost to get your country out of trouble ? Your'e OK now, but it was a very expensive repair job.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:46 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:Farage just been on TV saying the £350 million a week for the NHS claim was 'a mistake'.
You couldn't make this stuff up!

I know. They have a lot of back tracking to do now.

We must move on and accept the outcome, but I maintain that the people of the UK will live to regret this decision.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:47 am

ShahenshahG wrote:Doesnt matter - the ones who voted for leave will suffer the most as a broad demographic. It's been done, no matter what lie convinced who to vote for what. I suspect wales is going to regret it the most.
Well, I certainly hope all those pensioners who voted 'out' suffer a financial hit. Sorry, shouldn't say that, but I'm afraid I don't have a lot of charity for their input into this at the moment I'm afraid.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:49 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Doesnt matter - the ones who voted for leave will suffer the most as a broad demographic. It's been done, no matter what lie convinced who to vote for what. I suspect wales is going to regret it the most.
Well, I certainly hope all those pensioners who voted 'out' suffer a financial hit. Sorry, shouldn't say that, but I'm afraid I don't have a lot of charity for their input into this at the moment I'm afraid.

Classless ****

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:51 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Doesnt matter - the ones who voted for leave will suffer the most as a broad demographic. It's been done, no matter what lie convinced who to vote for what. I suspect wales is going to regret it the most.
Well, I certainly hope all those pensioners who voted 'out' suffer a financial hit. Sorry, shouldn't say that, but I'm afraid I don't have a lot of charity for their input into this at the moment I'm afraid.


Why not just not count their votes, or just shoot them, they are a big drain on the health system anyway.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:53 am

Yeah me too. I've always thought politicians were embittered men and women having wasted their physical primes butting heads against a system that doesnt work starting wars/rushing to wars in a midlife crisis way. Trying to achieve glory on the back of the young. This is similar, embittered old men and women who reaped all the benefits, had the best of life and now deny it to the next generation because they want to feel important. P*ss on them. Except Julius.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:57 am

Good to see the Remainers are still dignified. I've had a few school friends all ready fall out with me because they know I was in the Leave camp laughing. If we voted remain I bet the other said would have said "ah well" and that's it. Boris has he car vandalised already. Right now is the time to support one another in our GREAT BRITAIN and build a peaceful, prosperous future for all...

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:57 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Doesnt matter - the ones who voted for leave will suffer the most as a broad demographic. It's been done, no matter what lie convinced who to vote for what. I suspect wales is going to regret it the most.
Well, I certainly hope all those pensioners who voted 'out' suffer a financial hit. Sorry, shouldn't say that, but I'm afraid I don't have a lot of charity for their input into this at the moment I'm afraid.

Classless ****
Up yours too mate and thanks for your demonstration of 'class'. I accept their right to vote, but I hope they're proud of what they've now precipitated.
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 9:59 am

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Thanks awfully, Lord. I personally blame the Pro12 for our current buggerdness.

I blame the refs. Wink

But seriously, how much did it cost to get your country out of trouble ? Your'e OK now, but it was a very expensive repair job.

Maybe you didn't get it...but the Irish tax payers are paying for it. So thanks for the bail out Europe but it had interest rates attached. Frankly, the Irish tax payer has given losing gamblers (EU protected bond holders) their full winnings even though they bet on a dud horse. All Hail Europe! - and 'Yes, sir, Mr Juncker, sir" say I.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:01 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Good to see the Remainers are still dignified. I've had a few school friends all ready fall out with me because they know I was in the Leave camp laughing. If we voted remain I bet the other said would have said "ah well" and that's it. Boris has he car vandalised already. Right now is the time to support one another in our GREAT BRITAIN and build a peaceful, prosperous future for all...
Good point re. the dignity. Too angry just now to post sensibly. Ciao...
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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:02 am

SecretFly, if Ireland had a vote now like we have just had, in or out, what would you vote for ?

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:07 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Still, thank goodness the Leave team were correct after all, and that a vote to Leave won't have a negative affect on the economy. FTSE and pound relatively unaffected.
Laugh Seen the FTSE 250? You have to laugh...

Really looking forward to checking my pension/ISA on Monday! Should have just spent the money irresponsibly and wracked up debt!

Still, if you actually look at the markets from the beginning of the year, we are pretty much as we were. Worth remembering that the collapse of the indices overnight was from an artificially high starting point, as the markets had incorrectly banked on a Remain vote.

Still, scrambling around for very small crumbs of comfort.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:10 am

LordDowlais wrote:SecretFly, if Ireland had a vote now like we have just had, in or out, what would you vote for ?

We did.  Referendums are new to you...I'm very familiar with them.  We did say NO to Europe - or at least one of the most invidious treaties that gave it oodles more power and say.  Unfortunately, when looking in hindsight, had other nations being as democratic and allowed their citizens to vote on that treaty too in a Referendum, then perhaps the recent UK referendum would never have happened.  We'd all have stalled the more ambitious notions of this EU.

But we did vote on Europe - I think the percentages for and against were around about the same as the UK one now...go check out what happened after that.


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Post by whocares on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:10 am

Well... Time to embrace market volatility and buy cheap stocks I guess.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:12 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Doesnt matter - the ones who voted for leave will suffer the most as a broad demographic. It's been done, no matter what lie convinced who to vote for what. I suspect wales is going to regret it the most.
Well, I certainly hope all those pensioners who voted 'out' suffer a financial hit. Sorry, shouldn't say that, but I'm afraid I don't have a lot of charity for their input into this at the moment I'm afraid.

Classless ****
Up yours too mate and thanks for your demonstration of 'class'. I accept their right to vote, but I hope they're proud of what they've now precipitated.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't have empathy for anyone

They were his exact words.  I haven't changed that in anyway.  It was in the context of Syrian refugees fleeing the civil war.

He has no right to call anyone a classless c*nt.  He is the very embodiment of it.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Sin é on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:12 am

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Thanks awfully, Lord. I personally blame the Pro12 for our current buggerdness.

I blame the refs. Wink

But seriously, how much did it cost to get your country out of trouble ? Your'e OK now, but it was a very expensive repair job.

Don't be under an illusion that Britain was bailing Ireland out with a LOAN. London was bailing out all its own companies here based in Ireland. UK has huge investments in Ireland. As for the loan, I believe Ireland has repaid something like 150m in interest so far!

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:13 am

I must have the missed the part where it was a democratic vote where everyone had an equal say.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:16 am

Nore Staat wrote:
Ent wrote:I don't like Cameron but he should lead Britain through this period and go when he loses an election.

I'd guess the split in the Tory party has made his position unteneble.
No I think most wanting him to stay to see Britain through this period, which includes trying to keep Scotland and possibly N.I. in the Union.  I am not sure Britain is ready for Boris Johnson as leader.

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree. Cameron's position is untenable. He called this referendum, fought tooth and nail for a Remain vote and lost. He now has zero credibility from which to campaign to save the UK - trust me, if he comes near Scotland during IndyRef II he will single-handedly guarantee Scottish independence. He was pretty toxic up here last time, now he is both toxic and incompetent.

He had to resign and had no choice. It's nothing to do with being weak. His weakness was calling the referendum in the first place to placate UKIP voters and secure a majority, and the ridiculous concessions he made to the Yes campaign prior to IndyRef I. His legacy is in ruins and he'll go down as once of the worst PMs of all time - precipitating Black Friday, Brexit, resumption of hostilities in NI and Scottish Independence. He knows it as well, his body language and the look on SamCam's face this morning told 1000 words.

Whilst I think Boris Johnson will be a hopeless PM and is completely unsuitable for the job, it was clear as crystal to anyone who knows anything that a Brexit vote would mean Boris becoming PM, with cabinet roles for Grayling, Duncan-Smith and Gove.

You made your bed. Now lie in it!

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:17 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I must have the missed the part where it was a democratic vote where everyone had an equal say.

You need a democratic vote to feel empathy for Syrians refugees?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:18 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Good to see the Remainers are still dignified. I've had a few school friends all ready fall out with me because they know I was in the Leave camp laughing. If we voted remain I bet the other said would have said "ah well" and that's it. Boris has he car vandalised already. Right now is the time to support one another in our GREAT BRITAIN and build a peaceful, prosperous future for all...
Good point re. the dignity. Too angry just now to post sensibly. Ciao...

Fair enough. This wasn't aimed at you... I know many other people who could do with some time away from social media now though... I'm very embarrassed to say that I know them. They want to fall out with me and slag me off because they believed i voted differently to them, get a grip and move on, is what Mikey says!

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:19 am

Sin é wrote:I believe Ireland has repaid something like 150m in interest so far!

That, in itself is one of the reasons why I wanted out of the EU, who is policing this kind of extortion ?

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:21 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:I believe Ireland has repaid something like 150m in interest so far!

That, in itself is one of the reasons why I wanted out of the EU, who is policing this kind of extortion ?

Did Ireland have to take the money and agree to the terms? Genuine question.

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:23 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Did Ireland have to take the money and agree to the terms?

I think they were between a rock and a hard place. They had no choice because they were buggered.

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Post by BamBam on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:25 am

75% of 18-25s apparently wanted to remain, its lucky for them that there's so many over 65s who'll be dead in 10 years looking out for their best interests

In my lifetime, I doubt that I'll ever see one generation screw another as badly as the baby boomers have done to those born in the mid - late 90s


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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:26 am

LordDowlais wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Did Ireland have to take the money and agree to the terms?

I think they were between a rock and a hard place. They had no choice because they were buggered.
Why was that the fault of the EU?

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:27 am

BamBam wrote:75% of 18-25s apparently wanted to remain, its lucky for them that there's so many over 65s who'll be dead in 10 years looking out for their best interests

In my lifetime, I doubt that I'll ever see one generation screw another as badly as the baby boomers have done to those born in the mid - late 90s 1980s and 1990s

Just one edit. As generations go, the Boomers have played a blinder.

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:27 am

BamBam wrote:75% of 18-25s apparently wanted to remain, its lucky for them that there's so many over 65s who'll be dead in 10 years looking out for their best interests

In my lifetime, I doubt that I'll ever see one generation screw another as badly as the baby boomers have done to those born in the mid - late 90s


You will.........when you turn 66.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:30 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:I believe Ireland has repaid something like 150m in interest so far!

That, in itself is one of the reasons why I wanted out of the EU, who is policing this kind of extortion ?

Did Ireland have to take the money and agree to the terms? Genuine question.

Well they were thinking seriously about burning the bond holders - but bond holders have friends obviously - in high places and plush offices, many of them political - in the money market capitals of the world and in Brussels.  So when that was on the cards......  the EU heavy hitters rolled in and threatened our Government with the same SKY WILL FALL threats that the UK were faced with through the course of your Referendum.  When the going gets tough, the EU threatens.  Nice place again.  Nice homely joint.

So, a population of 4ish million against all you guys - saving the EU from meltdown.............  yeah, we didn't have much choice.  The EU - Home of the Bully Bootboy class.

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:35 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Why was that the fault of the EU?

Come on. I know what you are doing here. Of course it's the fault of the EU. It's the old, you can have whatever you want, as long as we agree to it, line.

Ireland were fecked, and the EU loaned them money with massive interest rates, they are no better than loan sharks.

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