The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll)

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Post by Electric Demon on Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:17 pm

First topic message reminder :

It's not Labour or Corbyn's fault either

In this age of entitlement, "the workers" who traditionally voted Labour take the welfare state for granted and are now bizarrely right wing, even though they rely on the welfare policies of the left. (I am aware this is generalisation - but hey, that seems to be the crux of the thread)

The left and the working classes are completely at odds with each other now - which is a massive problem for Labour. It has to become 2 different parties because it won't be able to unite those 2 forces when there is a rejection of experts. But when that happens then there will be no party remotely able to challenge the Conservatives.


Last edited by Cassius Zhi on Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Changes "intelligence" to "experts" as that was very poor choice of words)

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Post by Ent on Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:58 am

OBR To Slash Forecast For Rescued Bank Stakes - Sky News
https://apple.news/AgwCiJ--6SDKUjITZCC1XnA

Didn't even consider this.

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Post by milkyboy on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:02 pm

SecretFly wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:

I'm also not sure who you think Corbyn is embarrassing? The "elite boys" are the ones who paid £3 to join the Labour Party and vote him in. Whilst Corbyn is leader we are guaranteed a Tory government, and for our Prime Minister whoever it happens to be the Tories decide should lead them (Johnson or May almost inevitably). The joke is very much on Corbyn and those who elected him. His election was the greatest act of political self-harm I've could recall until last Thursday.  

You still don't get my point.  Labour (the 'elite' side of it) wants to be Conservative.  But they still don't want to vote Conservative because it's a football game.

I like observing that kind of stuff.  You keep talking about getting 'elected' and yet Labour stood side by side with the Conservatives in campaigning for Remain.  The only Labour man that seemed to be ideologically in tune with the people that voted Leave (we're being told the vast majority were from Labour heartlands/persuasions etc) and therefore ideologically opposite to the Conservatives, was Mr Leader Corbyn.

So what is the point in always talking about getting Labour 'elected'?  Let the Labour voters who want Conservative values simply vote Conservative...and get them.  Let New Labour MPs become Conservatives.  The differences between New Labour and Conservative are minute.  But that's still the 'alternative' to Conservatives that is being championed by those Labour people embarrassed by crumpled-jacket Corby?

Fly, that's the great paradox of the labour party. The ideology is unelectable. For years the party has battled with this. Wilson and Blair understood/believed that you had water everything down to be electable and do what you can when in power... in between times a bunch of well meaning idealists have floundered in opposition. So what do you want to be... in power with a 'central' position or just a pressure group acting as the social conscience of the country? Among the PLP, the NEC, members, unions and voters... there's perennail conflict of agendas

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:03 pm

Ent wrote:OBR To Slash Forecast For Rescued Bank Stakes - Sky News
https://apple.news/AgwCiJ--6SDKUjITZCC1XnA

Didn't even consider this.

Scaremonger.

Or is it Doom Merchant, post-vote?

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:03 pm

Ent wrote:OBR To Slash Forecast For Rescued Bank Stakes - Sky News
https://apple.news/AgwCiJ--6SDKUjITZCC1XnA

Didn't even consider this.
Of course this was going to happen. Banks were always going to be some of the hardest hit, with the commensurate drop in the value of Government stakes. Don't recall 'Remain' flagging this as an issue but it wouldn't have mattered anyway as the Brexiteers were all done with 'experts'.
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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:10 pm

SecretFly wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:

I'm also not sure who you think Corbyn is embarrassing? The "elite boys" are the ones who paid £3 to join the Labour Party and vote him in. Whilst Corbyn is leader we are guaranteed a Tory government, and for our Prime Minister whoever it happens to be the Tories decide should lead them (Johnson or May almost inevitably). The joke is very much on Corbyn and those who elected him. His election was the greatest act of political self-harm I've could recall until last Thursday.  

You still don't get my point.  Labour (the 'elite' side of it) wants to be Conservative.  But they still don't want to vote Conservative because it's a football game.

I like observing that kind of stuff.  You keep talking about getting 'elected' and yet Labour stood side by side with the Conservatives in campaigning for Remain.  The only Labour man that seemed to be ideologically in tune with the people that voted Leave (we're being told the vast majority were from Labour heartlands/persuasions etc) and therefore ideologically opposite to the Conservatives, was Mr Leader Corbyn.

So what is the point in always talking about getting Labour 'elected'?  Let the Labour voters who want Conservative values simply vote Conservative...and get them.  Let New Labour MPs become Conservatives.  The differences between New Labour and Conservative are minute.  But that's still the 'alternative' to Conservatives that is being championed by those Labour people embarrassed by crumpled-jacket Corby?


I do get your point, it's just that you're wrong. There are big differences between New Labour and the Conservatives:

New Labour: taxes up, investment in public services up, NHS protected, devolution supported, minimum/living wage introduced and pro-European.

Conservatives: taxes down, investment in public services wiped out, NHS open to privatisation, devolution opposed, minimum/living wage tolerated but only increased with commensurate cuts to tax credits and party split on Europe.

Also, Labour did not stand "side by side with the Conservatives in campaigning for Remain". That's the whole point behind the withdrawal of support for Corbyn. He sort of campaigned for Remain, but did in his usual weak and ineffective manner. I asked the question above and no-one has been able to answer: why did he campaign for Remain if he wanted Leave? He's either a useless politician and incompetent campaigner, or fundamentally dishonest and disingenuous.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:16 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Ent wrote:OBR To Slash Forecast For Rescued Bank Stakes - Sky News
https://apple.news/AgwCiJ--6SDKUjITZCC1XnA

Didn't even consider this.
Of course this was going to happen. Banks were always going to be some of the hardest hit, with the commensurate drop in the value of Government stakes. Don't recall 'Remain' flagging this as an issue but it wouldn't have mattered anyway as the Brexiteers were all done with 'experts'.

All this has shown politicians at their worst but I found something i kinda admire - how experts and politicians deal with sh*t and ignorance from voters. The third stupid c*nt who accused me of scaremongering would get slapped while being told between slaps that it's. your. f*cking. money. you. stupid. c*nt. Then i'd tear out his f*cking throat with my teeth then urine on his still twitching body.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:18 pm

milkyboy wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:

I'm also not sure who you think Corbyn is embarrassing? The "elite boys" are the ones who paid £3 to join the Labour Party and vote him in. Whilst Corbyn is leader we are guaranteed a Tory government, and for our Prime Minister whoever it happens to be the Tories decide should lead them (Johnson or May almost inevitably). The joke is very much on Corbyn and those who elected him. His election was the greatest act of political self-harm I've could recall until last Thursday.  

You still don't get my point.  Labour (the 'elite' side of it) wants to be Conservative.  But they still don't want to vote Conservative because it's a football game.

I like observing that kind of stuff.  You keep talking about getting 'elected' and yet Labour stood side by side with the Conservatives in campaigning for Remain.  The only Labour man that seemed to be ideologically in tune with the people that voted Leave (we're being told the vast majority were from Labour heartlands/persuasions etc) and therefore ideologically opposite to the Conservatives, was Mr Leader Corbyn.

So what is the point in always talking about getting Labour 'elected'?  Let the Labour voters who want Conservative values simply vote Conservative...and get them.  Let New Labour MPs become Conservatives.  The differences between New Labour and Conservative are minute.  But that's still the 'alternative' to Conservatives that is being championed by those Labour people embarrassed by crumpled-jacket Corby?

Fly, that's the great paradox of the labour party. The ideology is unelectable. For years the party has battled with this. Wilson and Blair understood/believed that you had water everything down to be electable and do what you can when in power... in between times a bunch of well meaning idealists have floundered in opposition. So what do you want to be... in power with a 'central' position or just a pressure group acting as the social conscience of the country? Among the PLP, the NEC, members, unions and voters... there's perennail conflict of agendas


Pretty good summary. Do you want to influence politics and make a positive impact on people's lives, or do you want to just read out other people's questions for 30 minutes each Wednesday and watch the Conservative Party cut public services to the bone so that inheritance tax can be slashed?

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:20 pm

milkyboy wrote:Exile, re corbyn and brexit. I think the guardian readership, labour intellectuals wanted remain but the working class historical core labour voter's turned to brexit... split loyalties within the party and within the voters... confused and ineffectual leadership from a stubborn man. It's a bizarre state of affairs when you have the government voluntarily putting brexit to a public vote and  then requiring party politics to be put on hold... you can see why an unholy alliance sits uncomfortably for some.

Forgive me for the GCSE grade politics lesson, but I've been reflecting on what I consider the ironies of brexit.

Holding a referendum is a controversial tool in UK politics, the government can pick and choose. It goes against the grain of how our political system works, where we elect representatives to take decisions for us, rather than delegates doing what we tell them. With the first past the post electoral system we end up with a government that most people didn't vote for making their own decisions about what we do.  On the face of it, a referendum on a key issue seems far more democratic, but here's the rub...  when you actually let the man in the street make a decision he's not 'qualified' to make it reminds you how high risk it is. We just let the great british public vote for membership of something, that most don't really understand, with many seemingly voting on little snippets of information they've been fed by their daily rag or heard down the pub. When I say 'we let', I mean Cameron let. And why? Because he wanted to strengthen his position in the tory party and the party's chances for the next election... and see off the threat of UKIP. Not because he felt it had been 40 years since the last one, and we were due it. A more charitable perspective would be to say, that UKIP's arrival on the scene made immigration such a hot potato he wanted to cool it down while he still could.

Who knows whether britain, if it still exists as britain, will end up in a better place in 5 or 10 years time, it's hard to predict, and we may never know for sure, because much of that depends on what we may have just triggered in the world order. I have my views on that, but they're just views. Short to mid-term economic woes though, were pretty much a nailed on certainty.  On the one hand it's a victory for democracy, but the biggest irony to me in all of this is that the most dissatisfied groups in society tipped this vote for leave, and they were the ones with the most to lose.  Sending us into recession isn't helping the pensioners with their pension pots and savings accounts, and the disillusioned working class communities who aren't happy with immigrants taking their jobs and benefits are going to wish there were more jobs to compete for and less austerity measures coming their way.

The public wanted to give one in the eye to the establishment. But the establishment will take their licks, and the politicians they hate will be replaced by more politicians they hate. Cameron gambled on the future of the country he loves by calling a referendum. In both cases you could argue, the turkeys voted for christmas.

Yep, agree with pretty much all of that. I firmly believe that the people who will lose the most here are the people that voted Leave.

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Post by milkyboy on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:21 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Ent wrote:OBR To Slash Forecast For Rescued Bank Stakes - Sky News
https://apple.news/AgwCiJ--6SDKUjITZCC1XnA

Didn't even consider this.
Of course this was going to happen. Banks were always going to be some of the hardest hit, with the commensurate drop in the value of Government stakes. Don't recall 'Remain' flagging this as an issue but it wouldn't have mattered anyway as the Brexiteers were all done with 'experts'.

All this has shown politicians at their worst but I found something i kinda admire - how experts and politicians deal with sh*t and ignorance from voters. The third stupid c*nt who accused me of scaremongering would get slapped while being told between slaps that it's. your. f*cking. money. you. stupid. c*nt. Then i'd  tear out his f*cking throat with my teeth then urine on his still twitching body.

but then you've always been a wishy-washy liberal shah

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Post by lostinwales on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:22 pm

So much in economics is dependent on confidence. With no effective leadership and an uncertain future nobody has confidence in where the UK is going. Scary times.

It would have been so easy for the right kind of labour leader to have made huge political capital out of the conservative implosion. A little bit of sanity, a little bit of presence and an aura of reliability. All that was needed. Corbyn showed none of these things. Have to wonder how many shadow cabinet ministers need to resign for him to realise this. Rights/wrongs whatever every hour he stays causes his labour party more damage

As for the local party that used to be a national party I had to look up who the current leader is. I do think Tim Farron has an excuse for not being so visible- as the lib dems are europhile yet his constituency very firmly voted out - but still..

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Post by SecretFly on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:22 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote: why did he campaign for Remain if he wanted Leave? He's either a useless politician and incompetent campaigner, or fundamentally dishonest and disingenuous.

He always had the air of someone that was 'encouraged' to campaign for Remain because let's face it, most observers felt Remain would win.  Always back a winner.  But anyway, I think when looking at the lines he was using in his speech, he was virtually telling the public, 'Yeah, if I look lukewarm on the idea it's because I am - read what you like from it".

So maybe we should go back to those Turkey posters.  The Leave Lies?  There is maybe the Remain camp's biggest Lie - Corbyn saying he was a Remain guy.  Maybe he himself even voted Leave.  So there you go, seismic juicy lies from both sides? Wink

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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:25 pm

milkyboy wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Ent wrote:OBR To Slash Forecast For Rescued Bank Stakes - Sky News
https://apple.news/AgwCiJ--6SDKUjITZCC1XnA

Didn't even consider this.
Of course this was going to happen. Banks were always going to be some of the hardest hit, with the commensurate drop in the value of Government stakes. Don't recall 'Remain' flagging this as an issue but it wouldn't have mattered anyway as the Brexiteers were all done with 'experts'.

All this has shown politicians at their worst but I found something i kinda admire - how experts and politicians deal with sh*t and ignorance from voters. The third stupid c*nt who accused me of scaremongering would get slapped while being told between slaps that it's. your. f*cking. money. you. stupid. c*nt. Then i'd  tear out his f*cking throat with my teeth then urine on his still twitching body.

but then you've always been a wishy-washy liberal shah

It's true, my slaves are always telling me how much they love me and my gentle ways.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:30 pm

SecretFly wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote: why did he campaign for Remain if he wanted Leave? He's either a useless politician and incompetent campaigner, or fundamentally dishonest and disingenuous.

He always had the air of someone that was 'encouraged' to campaign for Remain because let's face it, most observers felt Remain would win.  Always back a winner.  But anyway, I think when looking at the lines he was using in his speech, he was virtually telling the public, 'Yeah, if I look lukewarm on the idea it's because I am - read what you like from it".

So maybe we should go back to those Turkey posters.  The Leave Lies?  There is maybe the Remain camp's biggest Lie - Corbyn saying he was a Remain guy.  Maybe he himself even voted Leave.  So there you go, seismic juicy lies from both sides? Wink

He's not exactly Churchill is he??

I just think the Leader of the Opposition needs to be a Leader. He needs to pick a position on important issues and lead his party towards achieving that result. I think Corbyn is a dishonest weasel and whilst it would fit my narrative to paint him as incompetent on this issue (which would chime with his performance throughout his leadership) I actually think he was dishonest first and foremost. I think he and his advisers will now be kicking themselves that they didn't campaign with their convictions.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:38 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
He's not exactly Churchill is he??

I just think the Leader of the Opposition needs to be a Leader. He needs to pick a position on important issues and lead his party towards achieving that result. I think Corbyn is a dishonest weasel and whilst it would fit my narrative to paint him as incompetent on this issue (which would chime with his performance throughout his leadership) I actually think he was dishonest first and foremost. I think he and his advisers will now be kicking themselves that they didn't campaign with their convictions.

He's not Churchill. But then neither is Boris, and neither is a man I personally like, Cameron. Just when the country needs a Leader to step up and steady the ship, the candidates have either jumped ship completely or have ran away to the sleeping quarters when they've been asked to take over the bridge.

I wouldn't isolate Corbyn for the comparison.

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:39 pm

Do you know what, I am getting a little bit sick to the back teeth with all these tantrums coming from the remain camp.

Look, the voting is over now. The majority voted to leave the EU. Instead of throwing all these toys out of the pram, and telling us all what a mistake we have made, and how bad it is going to be. Why don't we all now club together and to do whats best for GB going forward ?

The voting is all over now. It's done, we are where we are, we should now try and make a fist of it.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:41 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Do you know what, I am getting a little bit sick to the back teeth with all these tantrums coming from the remain camp.

Look, the voting is over now. The majority voted to leave the EU. Instead of throwing all these toys out of the pram, and telling us all what a mistake we have made, and how bad it is going to be. Why don't we all now club together and to do whats best for GB going forward ?

The voting is all over now. It's done, we are where we are, we should now try and make a fist of it.

Because no one knows what to do.

Edit: Please keep the direct, aggressive insults out of this.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:43 pm

I don't blame Cameron for resigning, but the silence and inaction from Johnson and Gove these last few days has been shocking. Is Gove actually hiding under his mattress?? Do we need to commission a search party?

This is a man who couldn't stay away from the camera and the media last week. A man who was talking about the Remain experts, Nazis and Einstein (with himself in that role, obviously). Where is he now??

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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:44 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I don't blame Cameron for resigning, but the silence and inaction from Johnson and Gove these last few days has been shocking. Is Gove actually hiding under his mattress?? Do we need to commission a search party?

This is a man who couldn't stay away from the camera and the media last week. A man who was talking about the Remain experts, Nazis and Einstein (with himself in that role, obviously). Where is he now??

Dolphin must have finally snapped.

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:46 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:Because you stupid waster c*nt, no one knows what the f*ck to do

Classy.

This is the attitude of the remain camp all along. Did you not see George Osborne this morning ? They planned for an EU exit. As did the bank of England. FFS stop panicking everybody.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:49 pm

Would Churchill have voted to Remain, btw?

Yes.  I believe he would have.... but only if the Germans surrendered first.... Wink

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:49 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Do you know what, I am getting a little bit sick to the back teeth with all these tantrums coming from the remain camp.

Pathetic aren't they.

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Post by Hero on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:50 pm

After my facebook feed was littered with stupid Winnie the Pooh and Piglet pictures asking if they'll still be friends after voting differently I did like this one:

"How did you vote?" said Pooh.

"Leave," said Piglet.

"I voted remain," said Pooh.

"Are we still friends?" said Piglet.

"Well to be honest, I'm not really sure" said Pooh, uncharacteristically thoughtfully. "It's a complex issue and not really one that can be reduced to seven lines of text for the purposes of a rather twee meme.

"On the one hand, a belief in unity, that we're stronger together, and that when we work as a team we both benefit, was one of the main reasons why I voted as I did.

"On the other hand, whilst I appreciate that, just as I did, you chose your vote based on what you thought was for the best, you have precipitated a huge financial collapse, destabilised my country, and threatened the future of my children, and it's hard for me to forget that, especially within a matter of hours.

"It's entirely possible that we're going to end up with a very much depleted Sixty Acre Wood, and while you might have no issue with the other animals who live here, you sided with those who did. As of yesterday, Kanga's had to go into hiding, Rabbit's marching to Christopher Robin's house demanding her immediate repatriation, and Tigger's had donkey sh1t shoved through his letterbox. While you might not have wanted that, you legitimised it, and decided that other animals' lives and security were collateral damage.

"It's true that you're still the small, massively overmarketed stuffed animal that you were before, but realistically I've seen another side of you that I hadn't before and it's going to take me some time to process that.

"And whenever I tried to discuss this with you beforehand, you either accused me of scaremongering or insisted on ignoring me and showing me pictures of cats instead.

"So rather than pressing me for assurances I'm in no position to make right now, I'd appreciate it if you could give me some space and allow me to get off my face on honey and grieve the future that I thought I had, which has been destroyed in the favour of the one that you've dragged me into.

"And if you don't, I'll post you to Cameron. All right?"

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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:50 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Because you stupid waster c*nt, no one knows what the f*ck to do

Classy.

This is the attitude of the remain camp all along. Did you not see George Osborne this morning ? They planned for an EU exit. As did the bank of England. FFS stop panicking everybody.

You are the epitome of the idiot voter - Blaming europe for business rates - something that's set by the treasury then enforced/collected by our councils. Essentially you've stuck a dagger in your own inflatable boat, watched it sink and expect to be taken seriously rather than the silly sod that you are.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:51 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I don't blame Cameron for resigning, but the silence and inaction from Johnson and Gove these last few days has been shocking. Is Gove actually hiding under his mattress?? Do we need to commission a search party?

This is a man who couldn't stay away from the camera and the media last week. A man who was talking about the Remain experts, Nazis and Einstein (with himself in that role, obviously). Where is he now??

Dolphin must have finally snapped.

There's a teaching strike on Thursday. He'll be hiding till after that I'm sure

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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:54 pm

Hero wrote:After my facebook feed was littered with stupid Winnie the Pooh and Piglet pictures asking if they'll still be friends after voting differently I did like this one:

"How did you vote?" said Pooh.

"Leave," said Piglet.

"I voted remain," said Pooh.

"Are we still friends?" said Piglet.

"Well to be honest, I'm not really sure" said Pooh, uncharacteristically thoughtfully. "It's a complex issue and not really one that can be reduced to seven lines of text for the purposes of a rather twee meme.

"On the one hand, a belief in unity, that we're stronger together, and that when we work as a team we both benefit, was one of the main reasons why I voted as I did.

"On the other hand, whilst I appreciate that, just as I did, you chose your vote based on what you thought was for the best, you have precipitated a huge financial collapse, destabilised my country, and threatened the future of my children, and it's hard for me to forget that, especially within a matter of hours.

"It's entirely possible that we're going to end up with a very much depleted Sixty Acre Wood, and while you might have no issue with the other animals who live here, you sided with those who did. As of yesterday, Kanga's had to go into hiding, Rabbit's marching to Christopher Robin's house demanding her immediate repatriation, and Tigger's had donkey sh1t shoved through his letterbox. While you might not have wanted that, you legitimised it, and decided that other animals' lives and security were collateral damage.

"It's true that you're still the small, massively overmarketed stuffed animal that you were before, but realistically I've seen another side of you that I hadn't before and it's going to take me some time to process that.

"And whenever I tried to discuss this with you beforehand, you either accused me of scaremongering or insisted on ignoring me and showing me pictures of cats instead.

"So rather than pressing me for assurances I'm in no position to make right now, I'd appreciate it if you could give me some space and allow me to get off my face on honey and grieve the future that I thought I had, which has been destroyed in the favour of the one that you've dragged me into.

"And if you don't, I'll post you to Cameron. All right?"

laughing

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:56 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Do you know what, I am getting a little bit sick to the back teeth with all these tantrums coming from the remain camp.

Look, the voting is over now. The majority voted to leave the EU. Instead of throwing all these toys out of the pram, and telling us all what a mistake we have made, and how bad it is going to be. Why don't we all now club together and to do whats best for GB going forward ?

The voting is all over now. It's done, we are where we are, we should now try and make a fist of it.

Good idea. Problem is the Leavers have all gone AWOL. There's a power vacuum and no-one is really stepping up to the plate to take ownership.

As for what's best for GB going forward - this is the problem. No-one knows. Those of us who voted Remain do and did know what to do, but we're still waiting for a coherent picture to come from Leave, who seem divided already over the best vision for a UK outside of the EU.

All we've had from Boris so far is that he wants to build bridges (a metaphor I presume but you never know with him - does he not conversely want to close tunnels??), that we'll definitely have free trade and maintain the single market (has he completed negotiations already??), continue to be part of Europe (I assume he means geographically, unless the aforementioned negotiations were completed over the weekend),  that the £ is stable (it isn't), that markets are stable (they aren't) and that "Project Fear" was over (I don't know what this means).

That's it, unless you count IDS, Farage and Hannan performing spectacular U-Turns on Leave policies an example of us "pulling together".

I'm sorry, but if you're "getting a little bit sick" of Remainers expressing frustrations, I'm sure you can only imagine how we feel watching those who drove us out of the EU now hiding away from the decision and making a dog's breakfast of the aftermath.


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Post by Ent on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:56 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Because you stupid waster c*nt, no one knows what the f*ck to do

Classy.

This is the attitude of the remain camp all along. Did you not see George Osborne this morning ? They planned for an EU exit. As did the bank of England. FFS stop panicking everybody.

He's trying to reassure the markets and minimise the fallout. He's the chancellor, can't exactly say we're all Frak can he?

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Post by SecretFly on Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:59 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Because you stupid waster c*nt, no one knows what the f*ck to do

Classy.

This is the attitude of the remain camp all along. Did you not see George Osborne this morning ? They planned for an EU exit. As did the bank of England. FFS stop panicking everybody.

Osborne has thrown away the Dark Clouds and Maelstrom speeches.  He's had them shredded, then burned, then the ashes buried 50 feet underground.

He's opened his special Safe in the Wall, with his Golden key.  He removes his envelope: "Only to be Opened When David has been successfully dispatched and when Boris blinks under Pressure."


AHA!  We may have another Corby in our midst.  A 'Remain' man that voted Leave!

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Post by Coxy001 on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:00 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Because you stupid waster c*nt, no one knows what the f*ck to do

Classy.

This is the attitude of the remain camp all along. Did you not see George Osborne this morning ? They planned for an EU exit. As did the bank of England. FFS stop panicking everybody.

At least one side of the argument actually had a plan though. Effing leavers haven't got a clue other than Boris looking like he's shi*tting himself and muttering "informal talks, erm, yeah" when Germany have now come out saying "nein, vee vill do faaack all vith you until you sign ze article 50".

Leave... What's your plan? You haven't effing got one!!!! The ball is in your side of the court and you're looking at it like it's a fuc*king 5 legged donkey with Merkel's strapons shoved in every orifice!!!! It's only the fuc*king remainers who are doing anything to try and calm down what is a monster clusterf*ck of a situation, your guys are too busy going "no, I never said we'd spend £350m on blah blah blah" and backtracking so fast they'd break Bolt's 100m record going backwards!

Boris you blonde haired fuc*king rambling effing git. You want to be PM so fuc*king open your mouth and lets all hope and prey together in Trafalgar fuc*king Square that something that comes out isn't the stinking brown pile of diaharrea sh*t that was flowing out during your leave campaign but has suddenly dried up now you've won.

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:04 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:You are the epitome of the idiot voter - Blaming europe for business rates - something that's set by the treasury then enforced/collected by our councils. Essentially you've stuck a dagger in your own inflatable boat, watched it sink and expect to be taken seriously rather than the silly sod that you are.


Look, I took my fight to the highest authority, I suggest you do some research. There are masses of red tape surrounding business rates and everything associated with it. When you have learned a little more about it, then you can shout me down on here.

This is not something I have blindly walked into.

But haters are going to hate. You are no better than the far right wing idiots who want to deport everybody with a middle eastern sounding name.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:10 pm

Hero wrote:After my facebook feed was littered with stupid Winnie the Pooh and Piglet pictures asking if they'll still be friends after voting differently I did like this one:

"How did you vote?" said Pooh.

"Leave," said Piglet.

"I voted remain," said Pooh.

"Are we still friends?" said Piglet.

"Well to be honest, I'm not really sure" said Pooh, uncharacteristically thoughtfully. "It's a complex issue and not really one that can be reduced to seven lines of text for the purposes of a rather twee meme.

"On the one hand, a belief in unity, that we're stronger together, and that when we work as a team we both benefit, was one of the main reasons why I voted as I did.

"On the other hand, whilst I appreciate that, just as I did, you chose your vote based on what you thought was for the best, you have precipitated a huge financial collapse, destabilised my country, and threatened the future of my children, and it's hard for me to forget that, especially within a matter of hours.

"It's entirely possible that we're going to end up with a very much depleted Sixty Acre Wood, and while you might have no issue with the other animals who live here, you sided with those who did. As of yesterday, Kanga's had to go into hiding, Rabbit's marching to Christopher Robin's house demanding her immediate repatriation, and Tigger's had donkey sh1t shoved through his letterbox. While you might not have wanted that, you legitimised it, and decided that other animals' lives and security were collateral damage.

"It's true that you're still the small, massively overmarketed stuffed animal that you were before, but realistically I've seen another side of you that I hadn't before and it's going to take me some time to process that.

"And whenever I tried to discuss this with you beforehand, you either accused me of scaremongering or insisted on ignoring me and showing me pictures of cats instead.

"So rather than pressing me for assurances I'm in no position to make right now, I'd appreciate it if you could give me some space and allow me to get off my face on honey and grieve the future that I thought I had, which has been destroyed in the favour of the one that you've dragged me into.

"And if you don't, I'll post you to Cameron. All right?"

Piglet: Were you the Pooh piling the donkey sh*t through Tigger's letterbox? I'm amazed you have so much left over.

Wink

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:11 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Because no one knows what to do

Classy.

This is the attitude of the remain camp all along. Did you not see George Osborne this morning ? They planned for an EU exit. As did the bank of England. FFS stop panicking everybody.
Duh! Of course Osborne would say that. You think he wan't any more market panic than is already apparent?
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Post by Ent on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:12 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Because no one knows what to do

Classy.

This is the attitude of the remain camp all along. Did you not see George Osborne this morning ? They planned for an EU exit. As did the bank of England. FFS stop panicking everybody.
Duh! Of course Osborne would say that. You think he wan't any more market panic than is already apparent?

Come on, clearly everything is fine....

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:17 pm

Couple of things:

1) Cut out the overly aggressive, potty mouthed personal insults.
2) Stop thinking it's clever to insert asterisks into swearwords so that the filter misses them.


Be passionate and argumentative, but I'm not sure any of us needs any of the above.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:19 pm

Can we use '1' instead of an *?


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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:21 pm

SecretFly wrote:Can we use '1' instead of an *?

You can SF; as you're the epitome of cleverness...
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Post by Hero on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:21 pm

I concur, I've fallen foul of it myself during heated moments over the past few days to which I apologize to all and sundry and have at times made myself step away from the board, attack the comments not the poster.


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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:22 pm

Alright, apologies to the mods for all the extra work but not to the recipient of the well earned abuse. I think i'll withdraw from here till i'm a little more relaxed.

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Post by Hero on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:23 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Can we use '1' instead of an *?

You can SF; as you're the epitome of cleverness...

I presume that's in reference to my comment, yes I shouldn't have done it.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:25 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Couple of things:

1) Cut out the overly aggressive, potty mouthed personal insults.
2) Stop thinking it's clever to insert asterisks into swearwords so that the filter misses them.


Be passionate and argumentative, but I'm not sure any of us needs any of the above.

One of the mods in here finally doing their job clap. coffee

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:25 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Couple of things:

1) Cut out the overly aggressive, potty mouthed personal insults.
2) Stop thinking it's clever to insert asterisks into swearwords so that the filter misses them.


Be passionate and argumentative, but I'm not sure any of us needs any of the above.

thumbsup

Although it's worth noting the pound is now only worth 1 dollar and 30 c*nts.

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Post by Coxy001 on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:25 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Couple of things:

1) Cut out the overly aggressive, potty mouthed personal insults.
2) Stop thinking it's clever to insert asterisks into swearwords so that the filter misses them.


Be passionate and argumentative, but I'm not sure any of us needs any of the above.

To be fair the thought never entered my mind that I was being a ruddy genius in doing so.

Hero did it, he told me to do the same. Blame him.

I'm starting to think if we'll ever sign Article 50 and BoJo/Gove thought that everyone might just forget about this whole referendum malarky.


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Post by JuliusHMarx on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:27 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Couple of things:

1) Cut out the overly aggressive, potty mouthed personal insults.
2) Stop thinking it's clever to insert asterisks into swearwords so that the filter misses them.


Be passionate and argumentative, but I'm not sure any of us needs any of the above.

One of the mods in here finally doing their job clap. coffee

It's not a job - it's voluntary and takes up our free time. If you don't like the forum, you don't have to be here.

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Post by Ent on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:28 pm

Story just on bbc news there (no link on site sadly).

Lots of nasty things said to immigrants.

Sikh radiographer told by patient "shouldn't you be on plane to Pakistan, we voted you out"

"White power shouted at immigrant waiting on bus"

"XXXX go back to Romania" written on school wall, xxxx being a little girls name.

Think the leave campaigners need to come out and hit this hard, nip it in the bud.

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Post by GSC on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:31 pm

Ent wrote:Story just on bbc news there (no link on site sadly).

Lots of nasty things said to immigrants.

Sikh radiographer told by patient "shouldn't you be on plane to Pakistan, we voted you out"

"White power shouted at immigrant waiting on bus"

"XXXX go back to Romania" written on school wall, xxxx being a little girls name.

Think the leave campaigners need to come out and hit this hard, nip it in the bud.

This kind of thing is disgusting, using it for petty points scoring however is pretty poor.
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Post by Ent on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:33 pm

GSC wrote:
Ent wrote:Story just on bbc news there (no link on site sadly).

Lots of nasty things said to immigrants.

Sikh radiographer told by patient "shouldn't you be on plane to Pakistan, we voted you out"

"White power shouted at immigrant waiting on bus"

"XXXX go back to Romania" written on school wall, xxxx being a little girls name.

Think the leave campaigners need to come out and hit this hard, nip it in the bud.

This kind of thing is disgusting, using it for petty points scoring however is pretty poor.

Good no body is doing that then isn't it.

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Post by GSC on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:37 pm

Frankly, if you weren't, there'd be no point posting about individual incidents.
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Post by lostinwales on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:37 pm

This site has been a useful outlet. Guess what, a lot of us do feel strongly about this.

People are entitled to opinions and I am happy that some, with a clear head, voted with their conscience to leave when I myself voted to remain. It also drives me potty that others are crowing about a victory when they did not understand what they were voting for and one that in all likelihood will make their lives harder and not address their concerns.

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Post by Ent on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:40 pm

GSC wrote:Frankly, if you weren't, there'd be no point posting about individual incidents.

It's the second news story in 2 days about that kind of thing.

I'm not sure how it is point scoring to mention stories on national news outlets highlighting abuse received by immigrants since the referendum.

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Post by Rowley on Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:41 pm

The problem for the leavers is most of them have one eye on the Tory Leadership as well. The first person who sticks his head above the parapet in terms of the way forward has to answer a lot of the questions that have cropped up post decision. Firstly they will again have to acknowledge the NHS thing was basically drivel, all are guilty of pedalling this particular lie, but you don’t want to be the guy holding the parcel when the music stops.

Also whoever comes out of hiding first has to acknowledge the increasing likelihood that free movement is likely to stay in place, and by dint Thursday’s decision will have no impact whatsoever on net migration. Whoever breaks that news is pretty much ruling themselves out of the leadership running. It matters little that everyone on the Leave campaign knows this is the case, all that matters to the runners and riders now is they can stick someone else with the blame for it.

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