Rio Olympic Sevens Womens August 6-8th Mens 9-11th

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 29 Jun 2016, 2:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

Men’s draw

Pool A: Fiji, USA, Argentina, Brazil

Pool B: South Africa, Australia, France, Spain

Pool C: New Zealand, Great Britain, Kenya, Japan

Women’s draw

Pool A: Australia, USA, Fiji, Colombia

Pool B: New Zealand, France, Spain, Kenya

Pool C: Canada, Great Britain, Brazil, Japan

Twelve teams start the tournament, and pool play reduces this to eight for a quarter final round. The top two teams automatically qualify, along with the two best losers.

In the Men's draw, Brazil, Spain and Japan look most likely to finish out of the running but Spain did beat Samoa, so a turn-up is very possible. NZ, Fiji and South Africa will almost certainly qualify, but the other team to miss the cut could be any of the other six

The quarter finals will match up as follows for both Mens and Womens:

Winner pool A vs Second best 3rd place finish
Runner-up pool B vs Runner-up pool C
Winner pool B vs Best 3rd place finish
Winner pool C vs Runner-up pool A

If you go by form, that could look something like this in the Mens:

Fiji vs Argentina
Australia vs Great Britain
South Africa vs Kenya
New Zealand vs USA

The quarters, semis and final will all be played on the 11th August.


Last edited by Rugby Fan on Fri 05 Aug 2016, 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 5:04 pm

Another Woodwardism: "I think we'll kick to Rodwell"

That's what we do, for goodness sake. It's not a secret. If he's on the pitch, we kick to him, because he's our specialist.

It's like saying "I think Wilkinson might be the one to take this penalty" during his heyday.

Very occasionally, we try a trick move but only when we are streets ahead, or Rodwell has a run of bad challenges.


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Post by yappysnap on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 5:04 pm

So did GB switch off? Or were they focusing on slowing down the game and just defending their lead?

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Post by whocares on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 5:10 pm

yeah France Japan is confirmed. I assume GB will play either Australia or USA with SA in the semi ?

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Post by yappysnap on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 5:11 pm

Any one see Sally Conway in the Judo? Totally O/T but what an impressive win to make the final

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 5:14 pm

If Fiji beat USA, then Australia will be the best 3rd place finisher, with two wins, and I think that means they will face South Africa again in one of the quarter finals.

If Fiji beat USA by too much, then they will end up facing NZ in a quarter final! That would be a horrible prospect because a loss would mean no medal at all for Fiji.

If Ben Ryan knows that, then he might want his team to ensure that USA go through instead, by letting them win...


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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 5:17 pm

whocares wrote:yeah France Japan is confirmed. I assume GB will play either Australia or USA with SA in the semi ?

GB plays the 2nd placed team in pool A. If Fiji beats USA, then that will be Argentina. Then again, I've just noted that Fiji might have an incentive to lose to USA.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 5:31 pm

Current Group A points difference:

Fiji + 35
Argentina + 35
USA +23

So...I think Fiji are in a bind here.

A normal win or loss against USA means they end up facing either NZ, South Africa, or GB in a QF, depending on points difference.

Another strategy would be to engineer a heavy, heavy defeat to USA, which would probably see them face the Americans again in the QF.

Who would you rather face? Maybe GB if you are Fiji.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 5:38 pm

Well, I don't get the impression Fiji are trying to engineer a particular result. Then again a draw here would see USA progress at the expense of NZ.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 5:47 pm

USA leading Fiji 14-12

"Big five minutes now for Fijian rugby," says Woodward. Hasn't he looked at the permutations?

While I'm sneering, Fiji score themselves. 19-14 to Fiji.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 5:52 pm

Fiji win. I think they might have just guaranteed a QF against NZ.

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Post by RDW on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 5:53 pm

Just watched the game back - we were very lucky not to get a yellow card in the 2nd half given all the penalties we gave away. Outstanding defence to hold them out for so long though - it was an awful last restart from NZ that basically gave us an easy end to the game.

So why do we struggle so much closing out games? Is it fitness, bad tactics, concentration?

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 5:54 pm

Quarter Finals might be like this:

Fiji vs NZ
France vs Japan
South Africa vs Australia
GB vs Argentina

If so, then two sides strongly tipped to get a medal of one colour or another (Fiji, SA, Aus, NZ) will get nothing.

EDIT: That quarter final line-up is now confirmed.

https://twitter.com/UR7s/status/763417899402944512

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Post by RDW on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 6:02 pm

What about the semis?

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Post by RDW on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 6:05 pm

Just found it myself - SA or Aus in semis.

Lose that and probably France or Japan in the 3rd place playoff.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 6:10 pm

So Team GB face Argentina in the quarter final.

If you'd offered us that at the start of the Olympics, we'd have taken it. However, Argentina have looked like a decent unit, and won't have suffered much of a toll by facing Brazil today. They ran Fiji close, so I'm worried we're facing one of the in-form teams.

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Post by yappysnap on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 9:33 pm

Hopefully in four years time the rugby 7's coverage will get some proper 7's specialists to commentate, the two commentating right now are barely rugby specialists.

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 9:35 pm

Thought Cler knocked on with his first carry up the wing

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Post by whocares on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 9:44 pm

Wow that was quite dumb from the French defence. Tuqiri scored but missed conversion. 7-5 still for France with rain pouring. Japan dominating so should score soon I guess

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Post by whocares on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 9:50 pm

And they scored just at the end... 12-7 Japan win :/

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Post by whocares on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 9:55 pm

Watching Fiji 1st try against NZ cheered me up a bit. Some crazy passing to set it up!

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Post by RDW on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 10:31 pm

That has got to be one of the most ridiculous game of 7s I've ever seen - incredible drama!

I thought the ref's high tackle interpretation was utterly pedantic and killed any kind of momentum to the game.

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Post by yappysnap on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 10:31 pm

Wow a tense game from GB! Davis and Bibi the heroes of the game there

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 10:32 pm

Some crazy calls by that ref there. Yellowed Cubby for a high, but bottled the one on Norton.

Really thought GB were going to blow that. Fair play to them for digging it out.

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Post by RDW on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 10:34 pm

The one on Norton was a clear yellow and probably penalty try too.

Very poor reffing!

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Post by yappysnap on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 11:01 pm

High tackles have been very strictly policed all comp, and more prominent then usual I swear

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 11:12 pm

Well, I thought GB would finish second in their pool, and we finished first. I suspected we would face Australia in the quarter final, and we played Argentina.

Apart from that, we've made the semi finals, just as my optimistic scenario anticipated (my pessimistic ones have been quietly set aside).

We now face South Africa, who handily defeated Australia 22-5, to avenge their defeat earlier today. I did get the impression South Africa weren't trying in the pool match when they met. They weren't looking to throw the game, but didn't want to expend any unnecessary energy.

Fiji face Japan in the other semi-final. Superb performance by Japan, who were almost just supposed to be making up the numbers. The Asia qualification route looked like a soft way to get to the Olympics, but they've shown they deserve to be there.

Pleased for Fiji too. To win all their pool games, and yet face a heavyweight quarter final looked a cruel turn of fate but they never looked overawed. Along with GB, they remain unbeaten.

England don't have a great recent record against South Africa, so the odds are stacked against us for tomorrow. Still, we are where we wanted to be, while other favoured teams are out. Argentina were a tough opponent, and could easily have sent us home.

A bad Olympics for Kenya, USA and NZ. Australia will also be disappointed but that poor start against France did for them, and after that, it was the luck of the draw.

From World Rugby's perspective, USA have been a let down. There was real hope they would take some big scalps and raise the profile of the sport in America.

France and Argentina looked very fluent at times but France eventually faltered, while Argentina and GB were closely matched in the end.


Last edited by Rugby Fan on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 12:59 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 12:41 am

A lot of recriminations in New Zealand over the sevens performance.

A few years ago, NZRU extended the All Blacks name to include the sevens team, so there are concerns that an early Olympic exit might have damaged the brand.

Not sure how much of a concern that really is. I often use the 15s nicknames for the sevens sides, knowing full well they are different. I just haven't got the hang of calling South Africa the Blitzbokke rather than just the Boks.

Still, the difference is probably not clear to non-rugby fans.

Coach Gordon Tietjens is copping a lot of stick, along with the NZRU for not moving him on earlier. It's true that NZ sevens performances have fallen short over the last two years, so there may be something in that criticism, not withstanding all he's done for the code in NZ over his career.

Oddly, there are a few NZ tweets congratulating Fiji on winning a medal. You don't get a medal for beating NZ, otherwise GB and Japan would have one already too.

Certainly, Fiji ought to beat Japan, and guarantee at least a silver, but the match has yet to be played. It seems disrespectful to assume its a foregone conclusion. Especially, when Japan have already beaten NZ and France, and were a missed conversion away from drawing with GB.

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Post by George Carlin on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 6:07 am

Rugby Fan wrote:A lot of recriminations in New Zealand over the sevens performance.

A few years ago, NZRU extended the All Blacks name to include the sevens team, so there are concerns that an early Olympic exit might have damaged the brand.

Not sure how much of a concern that really is. I often use the 15s nicknames for the sevens sides, knowing full well they are different. I just haven't got the hang of calling South Africa the Blitzbokke rather than just the Boks.

Still, the difference is probably not clear to non-rugby fans.

Coach Gordon Tietjens is copping a lot of stick, along with the NZRU for not moving him on earlier. It's true that NZ sevens performances have fallen short over the last two years, so there may be something in that criticism, not withstanding all he's done for the code in NZ over his career.

Oddly, there are a few NZ tweets congratulating Fiji on winning a medal. You don't get a medal for beating NZ, otherwise GB and Japan would have one already too.
Laugh Post of the day for me.
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Post by RDW on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 6:37 am

That's 3 games in a row now that we've had very little possession and have pretty much held on by the skin of our teeth.

Surely we can't win a meddle if we carry on like that??

We desperately need to work out a way to get sustained possesion. Gonna be difficult against a very physical SA team.

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Post by George Carlin on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 8:39 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:That's 3 games in a row now that we've had very little possession and have pretty much held on by the skin of our teeth.

Surely we can't win a meddle if we carry on like that??
You're right. The best that we can hope for is a medal. Run
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Post by RDW on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 8:40 am

Headscratch

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Post by George Carlin on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 9:43 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Headscratch
It's a spelling joke. And, well, you know. Funniness ensued. Maybe. Tumbleweed
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Post by RDW on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 9:45 am

Ah I see - the perils of writing on my phone on a shoogly bus with Auto correct!

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 10:40 am

George is just medaling...

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Post by RDW on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 10:44 am

drumroll

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Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 12:43 pm

Interesting to read some of the post-mortems from New Zealand and Australia.

One of the early conclusions to draw is that, even if you have international players centrally contracted, it's hard for a union to plan an effective strategy for both sevens and 15-a-side.

Some New Zealanders are now saying top players should have been made to play sevens, for the benefit of the country. Hansen seems to have come out against this, arguing you shouldn't force anyone to play a game they don't want to play.

Hansen thinks it's good that players value their Super Rugby teams, and the chance to earn a full All Black shirt, that they would turn down the chance to commit to sevens. However, he also seems to concede that this leaves the shorter code as a poor cousin, when the Olympics is a major shop window to the world for the sport.

I'm struck by how different the Olympics feels to a round of HSBC sevens. Certainly, turn-ups happen there too, but it's rare to have so many favoured teams look leaden-footed. The Olympics appears to have taken regular players out of their comfort zone, and not allowed them to find a rhythm.

If we don't see a medal for Team GB, then it'll be a disappointment, but we've performed slightly above expectations so far, which is preet good given the preparation.


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Post by No9 on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 1:04 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:What is the point of Bibby? Useless

Think the point was clearly demonstrated last night...

James Davies was tremendous last night and hard done by with the yellow. clap

Been a great competition and the GB teams (Women and Men) have really stood up to the mark and done Britain proud. Fingers crossed the men go further than the woman and land a medal tonight (hopefully Gold).

Anyone think the 15 man game could make a come back in the Olympics (used to be there of course, 1924). Not sure the Unions would want to see that happen, as they'd lose control once ever 4 years to the IOC, and I'm sure more players would want to be put forward for it.

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Post by RDW on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 1:16 pm

No9 wrote:
Anyone think the 15 man game could make a come back in the Olympics (used to be there of course, 1924). Not sure the Unions would want to see that happen, as they'd lose control once ever 4 years to the IOC, and I'm sure more players would want to be put forward for it.

Given the heated debate about the Lions and a very crowded season you're opening up a whole new can of worms there!

You're not going to get 7s and 15s at the Olympics and I think 7s is much better suited.

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 1:17 pm

No9 wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:What is the point of Bibby? Useless

Think the point was clearly demonstrated last night...

James Davies was tremendous last night and hard done by with the yellow. clap

Been a great competition and the GB teams (Women and Men) have really stood up to the mark and done Britain proud. Fingers crossed the men go further than the woman and land a medal tonight (hopefully Gold).

Anyone think the 15 man game could make a come back in the Olympics (used to be there of course, 1924). Not sure the Unions would want to see that happen, as they'd lose control once ever 4 years to the IOC, and I'm sure more players would want to be put forward for it.

I think 7's is a very good fit for the olympics, not least because you can fit a tournament into a couple of days and its relatively easy to understand what is going on. You also have a lot more nations being able to put together competitive sides even if its mostly the same old who make it through to the final round. You can't do that with 15 aside.

I don't think football is a good fit either for that matter. (As for golf....)

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Post by Tattie Scones RRN on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 1:20 pm

No9 wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:What is the point of Bibby? Useless

Think the point was clearly demonstrated last night...

James Davies was tremendous last night and hard done by with the yellow. clap

Been a great competition and the GB teams (Women and Men) have really stood up to the mark and done Britain proud. Fingers crossed the men go further than the woman and land a medal tonight (hopefully Gold).

Anyone think the 15 man game could make a come back in the Olympics (used to be there of course, 1924). Not sure the Unions would want to see that happen, as they'd lose control once ever 4 years to the IOC, and I'm sure more players would want to be put forward for it.

Then you'll have seen that Bibby admitted himself in his interview that's he'd been crp all game. He's been, overall, pretty poor compared to the others, but then we all know that there are a few players there that shouldn't be.

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Post by RDW on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 1:25 pm

lostinwales wrote:
No9 wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:What is the point of Bibby? Useless

Think the point was clearly demonstrated last night...

James Davies was tremendous last night and hard done by with the yellow. clap

Been a great competition and the GB teams (Women and Men) have really stood up to the mark and done Britain proud. Fingers crossed the men go further than the woman and land a medal tonight (hopefully Gold).

Anyone think the 15 man game could make a come back in the Olympics (used to be there of course, 1924). Not sure the Unions would want to see that happen, as they'd lose control once ever 4 years to the IOC, and I'm sure more players would want to be put forward for it.

I think 7's is a very good fit for the olympics, not least because you can fit a tournament into a couple of days and its relatively easy to understand what is going on. You also have a lot more nations being able to put together competitive sides even if its mostly the same old who make it through to the final round. You can't do that with 15 aside.

I don't think football is a good fit either for that matter. (As for golf....)

That's a fair point - unless you had a small number of teams (which would render the competition fairly pointless) you'd struggle to fit a 15s tournament in even if you started on day 1 and ended on the final day. Unless you had huge squads and only a few days between games.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 1:38 pm

Stick with the fact Bibby has been the weakest performer. He took his try well at the end but gave away at least 2 (I think it was actually 3 in the end) penalties in the NZ match and was not impressed by him against Kenya, Argentina or Japan. Watson deserves more game time rather than just swapping with Bennett. Need another forward to match (or at least 90%) of what Rodwell brings.

15's should stick with the WC. Football is in the Olympics and it really does not matter to the European nations. I think 5 a side football would be a lot more interesting and, at least for GB, stop the bickering that goes on between England, Wales and Scotland on who gets picked.

On a completely different note, who do you reckon will shift from being a permanent 7s player to the 15s once the Olympics are done?

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Post by TJ on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 2:53 pm

I do enjoy a bit of schadenfreude :-) No Aus and no NZ in the semis? :-) Now don't get me wrong - I greatly admire the countries, the teams and the players and some of my favourite players ever come from these countries but is there anything finer in sport than seeing these guys beaten? :-)

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Post by munkian on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 2:58 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Stick with the fact Bibby has been the weakest performer. He took his try well at the end but gave away at least 2 (I think it was actually 3 in the end) penalties in the NZ match and was not impressed by him against Kenya, Argentina or Japan. Watson deserves more game time rather than just swapping with Bennett. Need another forward to match (or at least 90%) of what Rodwell brings.

15's should stick with the WC. Football is in the Olympics and it really does not matter to the European nations. I think 5 a side football would be a lot more interesting and, at least for GB, stop the bickering that goes on between England, Wales and Scotland on who gets picked.

On a completely different note, who do you reckon will shift from being a permanent 7s player to the 15s once the Olympics are done?

Well Cubby is a 15s player already so I imagine he will.
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Post by RDW on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 3:00 pm

Other than the current 15s players Dan Norton looks like he could be an AP level winger - has he had much 15s experience?

I don't think any of the others could (or should) make the step up. Sam Cross perhaps but he has looked underpowered at 7s level.

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Post by No9 on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 5:22 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
No9 wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:What is the point of Bibby? Useless

Think the point was clearly demonstrated last night...

James Davies was tremendous last night and hard done by with the yellow. clap

Been a great competition and the GB teams (Women and Men) have really stood up to the mark and done Britain proud. Fingers crossed the men go further than the woman and land a medal tonight (hopefully Gold).

Anyone think the 15 man game could make a come back in the Olympics (used to be there of course, 1924). Not sure the Unions would want to see that happen, as they'd lose control once ever 4 years to the IOC, and I'm sure more players would want to be put forward for it.

I think 7's is a very good fit for the olympics, not least because you can fit a tournament into a couple of days and its relatively easy to understand what is going on. You also have a lot more nations being able to put together competitive sides even if its mostly the same old who make it through to the final round. You can't do that with 15 aside.

I don't think football is a good fit either for that matter. (As for golf....)

That's a fair point - unless you had a small number of teams (which would render the competition fairly pointless) you'd struggle to fit a 15s tournament in even if you started on day 1 and ended on the final day.  Unless you had huge squads and only a few days between games.

Fair points.. I actually think (as others) 7s is a great fit for the Olympic format, competition completed in a few days, although would have rather seen the Women's and Mens' played on the same days, don't think there was need splitting them as they did, they could have just split the groups. May have generated more spectator interest, but somehow in Brazil I don't think so, as the fact Rugby isn't a keenly followed sport in Brazil plus the cost I dont think it would ave increased the gates by much. Back to 15 and 7s, as others have said, it takes so long to compete a 15 man tournament that it wouldn't fit as well as 7s in the Olympic structure. Also, agree, football, tennis and golf don't lie well either (imo).

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Post by No9 on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 5:32 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Stick with the fact Bibby has been the weakest performer. He took his try well at the end but gave away at least 2 (I think it was actually 3 in the end) penalties in the NZ match and was not impressed by him against Kenya, Argentina or Japan. Watson deserves more game time rather than just swapping with Bennett. Need another forward to match (or at least 90%) of what Rodwell brings.

Fair enough... guess he's not been firing on all cylinders (it that he said, in so many words, in an interview), but at least he did for the try that counted.

I actually think, as a team, the GB team is a good blend and playing really well. As a Welshman, I want to say, there's too many English and not enough Welsh (or Scots), but in all honesty I can't. I'm not a big follower of 7s, so don't really know which specialist 7s should be there and missed out, but I have enjoyed what I've seen and think the team is working well and playing as a team. Fingers crossed they can win a medal. Fingers Crossed

..... one final thing.

When I watched last night, I couldn't help thinking, pity this wasn't in the Olympics when Shane Williams was playing. I reckon he'd be a shoe in for 7s and would have loved to see him rip up the field on his swerving runs. He didn't have to be asked twice when give the ball and a little space, just imagine what he could have done in a 7s game.. (only ifs and buts I know.. but anyone, from the past 15 game, do you think could have set the 7s game alight).

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 5:42 pm

Williams and Robinson would have been superb, North might have done well too as a prop, leaving room for another flyer without sacrificing size.

If 15s were brought back, I would like to see it at U21 or U23 level, that way not too many clubs wold be affected as certainly at U21, most players are only pushing for the starting 23. Didn't men's football play it at that level or similar?

It also helps that we (England) have a rather good U21 side of course.

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Post by Poorfour on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 6:38 pm

15s could only work with big squads and midweek games for everyone. I don't think it would ever happen, but it would be different enough to be interesting.

As it is, 7s has looked pretty compelling as an Olympic sport and should further extend the popularity of the game. The gold or silver medal, and possibly the bronze, will go to a team from outside the 6N and 4N, which is great.
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Post by yappysnap on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 6:58 pm

Williams and Robinson would have been great in 7's oh what could have been

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