England and Pakistan Test sides

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England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by James100 on Sun 03 Jul 2016, 6:54 pm

The squad for the first test will be announced tomorrow, Anderson looks certainly out, whilst Stokes will not be able to bowl if he does play. Bayliss has thrown around the possibility of Stokes or Buttler playing as specialist bats and Root or Vince moving up to three http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-pakistan-2016/content/story/1031973.html

It's incredibly hard to guess the squad the'll choose, but in my perfect world, England would line up something like

A Cook (c)
A Hales
S Borthwick
J Root
J Bairstow
M Ali
B Foakes (wk)
C Woakes
S Broad
M Wood
S Finn

I haven't heard much about Wood's fitness other than that he would be making a return for Durham, so the first Test may be too soon for him—in which case Jake Ball can come in.

It may seem a bit soon for Foakes (Buttler seems to be regarded as next in line for the gloves) but both Winter tours this year are in the subcontinent and Buttler has glaring weaknesses keeping to spin (to go along with Bairstow's glaring weaknesses keeping to anyone Laugh ). I imagine, he will be the long-Term Test keeper and I'd like to give him a shot against Pakistan.

For Pakistan, I'd imagine they'll pick the same side as they have today, but with Wahab replacing Sohail Khan (anyone know why he's not playing atm?)

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by James100 on Sun 03 Jul 2016, 7:08 pm

With nearly two weeks to go until the first Test, I'd expect a squad of thirteen or fourteen. My guess is Foakes won't be picked and the squad could be

Cook (c)
Ali
Bairstow
Ball
Borthwick
Broad
Buttler
Finn
Hales
Root
Stokes
Vince
Woakes
Wood/Plunikett

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Jul 2016, 12:08 am

Hi James - I particularly note your comment, ''Anderson looks certainly out''. What's the position there please?

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Jetty on Mon 04 Jul 2016, 1:59 am

Anderson is back bowling gently today and will be named in the squad on Thursday. He thinks he will be fine.








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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by alfie on Mon 04 Jul 2016, 6:13 am

I would imagine Anderson will be picked - there will be at least one "spare" fast bowler in the squad in any case so they'd be covered if he failed to come up.
Ball is the current spare so presume he will stay in the squad ; but I was quite impressed by Plunkett in what I saw of the ODIs and wonder if he might get a look in ? (Wood will need to get some cricket in before he is considered again , I think)

Everyone assuming Borthwick taking over at three ? Makes sense if you're going to select on form so he'd be my choice.

I don't expect Foakes , yet at least.

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Jul 2016, 8:37 am

alfie wrote:I would imagine Anderson will be picked - there will be at least one "spare" fast bowler in the squad in any case so they'd be covered if he failed to come up.
Ball is the current spare so presume he will stay in the squad  ; but I was quite impressed by Plunkett in what I saw of the ODIs and wonder if he might get a look in ?  (Wood will need to get some cricket in before he is considered again , I think)

Everyone assuming Borthwick taking over at three ?  Makes sense if you're going to select on form so he'd be my choice.

I don't expect Foakes , yet at least.

Hi Alfie - very much agree with your post including the bit about Foakes. Not yet is my take although his cab is on the rank. Saw him yesterday at Guildford - day 2 of the Championship match against Warks. A very tidy and professional performance with a fine leg side catch - should be on the highlights on Surrey's own website later today.

Btw, probably the best batting performance I've seen this season from an English qualified player came yesterday from Jonathan Trott. Just saying. Smile

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by VTR on Mon 04 Jul 2016, 11:02 am

With the injuries its hard to say how we will line up. Plus doubts over Finn's form, and whether Buttler will be recalled based on ODI form. I could see something like:

Cook
Hales
Borthwick
Root
Bairstow
Ali
Buttler
Woakes
Broad
Finn
Anderson (Ball if Injured)

I am pretty certain England will go with a 5 man attack, and I am not sure Stokes will be recalled as pure batsman having not played much

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Jul 2016, 12:34 pm

Seems very likely Buttler will be in the side with Bairstow as a specialist bat

Meanwhile - Pakistan have Somerset 24-3, with Amir hooping it round corners ( a corker to bowl the right handed opener from round the wicket), Junaid Khan with the other wicket. Younis made a century with the bat

Should be a much tougher test than Sri Lanka - in particular their pace bowling unit (if Amir is anything like he was pre suspension) will be fearsome
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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Jul 2016, 12:37 pm

https://twitter.com/somersetccc/status/749926565077811202

Amir's delivery to dismiss Hose - phwoar
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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by KP_fan on Tue 05 Jul 2016, 8:06 am

Pakistan have a left arm pacer of reportedly as a high quality as seen around since akram and counting Starc also......this guy Amir was unplayable even on the benign pitches of BD in Asia cup in the 20 over version

plus a couple of guys who can hit 150kph

and a genuinely good leggie......albeit having had most of his successes on dry slow pitches of UAE and WI

Pakistan's bowling has an edge over Eng I feel...and significantly so in the game where Anderson is out.

So this should be a very exciting series....far more competitive than the Lankans

Pakistani batting has to hold on.....not necessarily score big ......but just hold on to get to 250-300ish totals....and not be blown away for 140 odd...and we will see an exciting series
A battle between
Depth of English batting vs. the Mercurial Pakistan bowling
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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 05 Jul 2016, 10:00 am

Id expect Buttler over Foakes if they do decide to change the gloves. But I am surprised to see so many people assuming Vince will be dropped. Sure hes struggled but hasnt had much of a chance and got runs in the ODI at least.

Borthwick, has there actually been talk of him from the England camp or is that just coming from pundits and people looking at CC form (which really isnt a great indicator). Id like to see him get a chance if theres room in the side espeically as he offers a support bowling option with an eye to the winter. But Root at 3 is surely still on the table and Bayliss said he sees him there long term.

Spinners...right now I'd have Rashid ahead of Ali whos form has been rank. Although Ali is the better bat of the two he hasnt been delivering in either discipline.

Interesting choices for England despite theri recent success theres a lot of possible changes could be made.




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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 05 Jul 2016, 10:13 am

Real waste of a place giving Buttler the gloves, he simply isn't good enough for test cricket.

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 05 Jul 2016, 10:17 am

Gooseberry wrote:Id expect Buttler over Foakes if they do decide to change the gloves. But I am surprised to see so many people assuming Vince will be dropped. Sure hes struggled but hasnt had much of a chance and got runs in the ODI at least.

Borthwick, has there actually been talk of him from the England camp or is that just coming from pundits and people looking at CC form (which really isnt a great indicator). Id like to see him get a chance if theres room in the side espeically as he offers a support bowling option with an eye to the winter. But Root at 3 is surely still on the table and Bayliss said he sees him there long term.

Spinners...right now I'd have Rashid ahead of Ali whos form has been rank. Although Ali is the better bat of the two he hasnt been delivering in either discipline.

Interesting choices for England despite theri recent success theres a lot of possible changes could be made.




Moeen literally scored 150* two tests ago - not an ideal start to the summer with the ball yes, but harsh to say he hasn't delivered with the bat!
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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 06 Jul 2016, 12:21 am

Trescothick with a hundred on the final day to save a draw for Somerset - his career a huge "what if" he didn't have this illness

Fabulous player
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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 12:24 pm

Ballance replaces Compton, Roland-Jones replaces Anderson

http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/articles/roland-jones-and-ballance-lords-test-squad

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by VTR on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 12:51 pm

So its a shootout between Ball and Roland-Jones for the final spot. Not sure what the batting order will be, though the top 6 is clearly Cook, Hales, Root, Ballance, Vince, Bairstow


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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 1:08 pm

Be interesting to get a peak at life post Anderson - also will it be Woakes or Finn who gets the new ball?

Seems reports of Buttler and Stokes were well wide of the mark

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by VTR on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 3:03 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Be interesting to get a peak at life post Anderson - also will it be Woakes or Finn who gets the new ball?

Seems reports of Buttler and Stokes were well wide of the mark


Interesting, or possibly frightening! Time for Finn to step up, there's a world class bowler in there somewhere. Maybe extra responsibility will bring more out of him

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 3:17 pm

I do wonder if Bayliss just likes toying with the press!
Stokes as a specialist bat never was going to happen, and he did only say he could be considered as one...ditto Buttler. If they played it would be because they could cover two roles.
I did think there was mileage in Buttler with the gloves though, and the reports of Borthwick or Root at 3 seemed realistic. Ballance is a bit of a surprise to me although he has been scoring a few runs theres not been more than passing mention of him in most of the press.

Moeen continuing over Rashid is a thing, but in the absence of Stokes I guess it makes them more secure in the batting depth whilst still having 5 bowlers.

Rolland-Jones seems to have come from nowhere amongst a host of bowlers. It does seem England are fixareted on managing their resources by having a set of seamers for limited overs and another for tests.

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 4:03 pm

Toblerone Jones - as he's known by the Oval faithful - has done well and been remarkably consistent when playing for arch rivals Middlesex against Surrey in recent seasons. Pleased to see someone too often and readily dismissed as little more than 'a good county pro' get an international call up. There's definitely some talent and fight in him. I'm not convinced he'll make the eleven although I suspect many county observes would say he's often outperformed his team mate Finn.

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 6:57 pm

Scott Borthwick has perhaps chosen a dreadful time to stop scoring runs, getting barely more than a handful in recent weeks.

Selection of Ballance does reek a bit of the type of selections we used to get in the 90s where a good performance in front of a selector just before the squad was named got you in the team. (In this case his ton at Scarbrough in front of Fraser and whittaker).

Rowland Jones was far superior to finn in that game.

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 8:03 pm

I suspect they've been waiting for a chance to get Ballance back into the side more than he just scored a ton - he was pretty good first time round, so hopefully he can find that form again
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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 8:14 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I suspect they've been waiting for a chance to get Ballance back into the side more than he just scored a ton - he was pretty good first time round, so hopefully he can find that form again

Feel that's the case and understandably so. Ballance is still only 26 and has a Test average approaching 48 from his 15 matches.

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by alfie on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 11:28 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I suspect they've been waiting for a chance to get Ballance back into the side more than he just scored a ton - he was pretty good first time round, so hopefully he can find that form again

Feel that's the case and understandably so. Ballance is still only 26 and has a Test average approaching 48 from his 15 matches.

I agree with you two great minds Smile

He was always going to have another chance sooner or later : the problem for him is Pakistan have some handy swing bowling so his perceived weaknesses will be well tested...if he hasn't learned to adapt the recall could recoil - if you see what I mean.

Not sure I am happy with Root moving to three : if he were in - and out - early , Vince and Ballance at 4/5 don't inspire confidence...at least Bairstow/Moeen/Woakes are there so some insurance.

Will miss Jimmy (of course)  Chance for Woakes to step up ...and Ball , presumably.   This game will not be a pushover like Sri Lanka.

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Jul 2016, 8:50 am

There has been no change to Ballance's technique, though batting at 5 should suit him more than at 3. Certainly Sri Lanka would have been an easier re-introduction. When he started his first stint for england, he was full of runs and confidence - not sure we can say the same at the moment.

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Fri 08 Jul 2016, 10:37 am

Is Ballance good against spinners? I know he has had his issues with the late, swinging ball but how does he measure up against spin?

Maybe they have an eye on India and the winter? Having his doggedness in the middle order before the stroke makers at 6, 7 and 8 come in could be very useful if he can/has worked out his flaws against good quick bowling.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Jul 2016, 12:43 pm

It does further the point that County runs/wickets counts fairly low down the list of reasons why players get actual test spots rather than just being considered.
And also that theres no point in listening to what Trevor "Root isnt ready to move up to 3 yet" says in press conferences.

I agree that Ballance has always been close to a place, dropping him in the first place was harsh (as with Compton who was given a second bite) . The surprise is to see him back when he hasnt done much in the season except perhaps when it really mattered. Hes a good player with the proven ability to score test runs but its still a slightly controversial pick....maybe even more so looking ahead to winter and how useful Borthwick could be to balance the side.

Root at three...well it had to happen sooner or later. Sure hes not going to be facing the raw agression of Aus at home but it coukd be a stern test.
All in the batting looks a bit of a punt. It could go really well with Cook anchoring a series of destructive scorers and Root able to adapt to how things are going. A less generous assesment would be Hales is a walking wicket to quality test seam, cooks form is patchy, root is being forced to play 3 where hes not comfortable, Vince is yet to show his potential at test level, and ballance has been picked off the back of a single inmings.

12 months ago if youd suggested this as an england line up people wouldve questioned your sanity. Another point here is that England seem much more ready to make changes than they might have been in previous years.

As for honest county pros...thats been levelled at pretty much every England seamer for a long time now. For the test side its only really been Anderson and Broad able to nail down long term places as specilalists...the others have come and gone as often as top 3 batsmen post strauss.
Maybe its a short term pick while they wait for stokes to recover ... home ground and all that. Nothing wrong with that.

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by KP_fan on Fri 08 Jul 2016, 6:21 pm

Ballance is a good selection....relative to the kind of replacements that have been tried.......he has much more to offer and offers at the very least......doughty test match batting

it was harsh to drop him and not Bell when he was dropped......so his return has also to do with someone's guilt compensation also.

Eng is lucky to have a replacement of quality of Woakes  for a mercurial talent like Stokes

People are harsh on Ali too.....he is a game changer......at No. 8 or 9....with the bat largely and is as good a spinner as eng has now.


Minus Anderson Eng do look one notch less with the ball.....and Wood was good too.....thsoe two missing makes Eng bowling just above moderate.
I like Chris Jordan and wonder why he is not in consideration
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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Jetty on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 1:58 am

Cricinfo
Gary Ballance's Test return is in doubt because of a groin injury which caused him to miss Yorkshire's NatWest T20 Blast tie in Derby on Sunday.

He will now be closely monitored by England's medical team ahead of the Test and, although he is making confident noises about his fitness, Yorkshire's director of cricket, Martyn Moxon, warned that his recovery could not entirely be taken for granted.

Moxon said: "Gary's got a bit of a tight groin which he sustained on Friday in the T20 against Birmingham. At this stage, we don't know whether he will be fit for the Test, but he may be okay."

Borthwick? Maybe Stokes.. and he's bowling in the nets again.

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by alfie on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 9:40 am

Bad luck for Ballance if he can't come up in time. But they'd be foolish to take risks with him , with the new rules against runners...

Same applies to Stokes , to a point : you could play him just as a bat ; but there would be the temptation to have him bowl ... I would far rather they make sure he is 100% before coming back in.

Wonder if they will nominate a standby batsman ?

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Duty281 on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 9:51 am

England are 4/11 to win the series.

Super. Smashing. Great. Print as much money as you like.

The 9/1 on England winning 4-0 is a teasing tempter as well.

Cricinfo (below) very kindly inform me that 31 of the last 37 tests Pakistan have played have been in Asia, with another 3 being played in Zimbabwe. This lack of exposure is going to undo them, with only Younis Khan being a serious obstruction to English ambition.



Last edited by Duty281 on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : A picture tells a thousand words)

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 6:19 pm

Misbah, Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq are all good bats too - Sarfraz if in good nick is a dangerous player.

Shah, Amir and Riaz is a top three bowlers, not so sure about Rahat Ali/Imran Khan/Sohail Khan as the 4th bowler/3rd seamer, but conditions should help them

They're a good side are Pakistan, will provide a much sterner test than Sri Lanka for sure. Can see them causing England problems, but ultimately I think we beat them 2-1
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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Duty281 on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 6:59 pm

Apparently, Pakistan only averaged 24 runs per wicket when facing England's seamers in the UAE - in England, how much lower will it be?

Broad is the best in the world; Anderson is still magnificent (though reaching the end); Woakes, Finn, Ball and whoever else will be motivated to prove their worth.

3-0 England, with a draw at Lord's (though I wouldn't rule out Pakistan being caught cold in that one).

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Re: England and Pakistan Test sides

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 12 Jul 2016, 8:33 am

On paper though Pakistan have a stronger top 6, certainly more proven. How much thats buffed up by flat tarcks of course is another matter. But Id expect them to offer more resistance than the shambles they sent over last time, espeically with less "distractions" and likely less extreme pitches.
Its wrong to think that Khan is their only good batsman.
In general they seems more switched on than most of the tourists that have come over in recent years and full of drive and confidence, plus they will get some vocal support from Jeremy Corbyns new cabinet the local communities and travelling fans.

Dont overegg the home field advantage here. Im not denying it exists, and certainly it will be testing for the top order if Broad turns up on a grassy wicket bowling first up .. but that holds equally true for Cook (pretty poor against the moving ball), Hales (is always going to be vulnerable to getting out cheaply) , Root (shoved up to 3 which ruined him before), Vince (yet to make a score at test level), + AN Other to be confirmed

Pakistans seam attack is every bit as capable of making use of the conditions in England as Englands are. And missing Anderson is pretty big.

First up though Lords is likely to be a flat pitch. Whilst England will be helped by having 4 proper seamers, and Pakistan relying on just 3 their spinners could have a big impact. Even if theres no turn England have hibit of imploding against good spin, and their agressive players could easily be drawn into trying to hit the part timers (who are pretty much on a par with Ali) out of the attack.

Englands batting strength is reliant on the all rounders ... having Ali and Woakes gives them some real depth so that is a tick for them, een more so when Stokes returns later in the series.


All in I can see Pakistan being very competitive. Lords gives them a chance of making a confident start. The forecast is pretty mixed so there will be some unpredicatbility in bowling conditions but if it worsens and we lose time to rain with a flat slow pitch and two deep batting line ups a draw is also on the cards.

After that Id expect the series to gradually drift Englands way as the bowling load takes it toll on Pakistans resources. But if we get green wickets and conditiosn to exploit them it does beocme a bit of a lottery so really I wouldnt want to be over confidently predicting England victory.

This has the makings of a great series

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