England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

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England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 13 Jul 2016, 1:14 pm

It has been confirmed that Jake Ball will make his debut tomorrow so England line up as

Cook
Hales
Root
Vince
Ballance
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Ball
Finn
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 13 Jul 2016, 1:28 pm

Not surprised. England are firm believers in a "pecking order", and Ball was clearly established as the next seamer in line, so he plays. Not seen much of him TBH, so won't comment.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 13 Jul 2016, 4:57 pm

I assume that means Woakes passed his fitness test.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 8:37 am

Im not entirely convinced by this line up, it does need some players to step up. On paper it bats very deep but theres a number of question marks.
Bowling they have options but Ali really needs to start taking wickets again, and Finn on a dead wicket? Ball has pretty big shoes to fill in Anderson.
Bairstow with the gloves, meh.

The much vaunted lack of experiecne in english conditions shouldnt hit Pakistan as hard in the test assuming the pitch is as flat as predicted, they should be pretty used to that (slope aside)

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 8:48 am

Seen a lot in the press that Bayliss/Cook were angry that the medical team have ruled Anderson out of this test after he was bowling in the nets the past couple days

Heaven forbid the professionals doing their job - not sure why we'd risk him until he's 100% fine
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 10:45 am

Pakistan win the toss and bowl on a glorious day at Lords

They are of course already 1-0 up in the series due to Misbah's sumptuous beard
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 10:49 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Pakistan win the toss and bowl on a glorious day at Lords

They are of course already 1-0 up in the series due to Misbah's sumptuous beard

Bat not bowl!

I was a bit surprised when I read that at frist, seemed suicidal.

Apparently there is a little green so theres a chance Ball could make a name for himself but most likley Pakistan will post a big score and realy put the pressure on Englands new look batting line up.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 10:54 am

Whoops - glad someone is on the ball goose!
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 11:31 am

Think Vince was distracted by a rogue Jigglypuff there, gotta catch em all

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by GSC on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 11:44 am

Had to make early inroads, hasn't happened yet
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by GSC on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 11:50 am

Tough for Vince, but has to be taken at this level
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 11:59 am

Sir Christopher Woakes has a certain ring to it
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by GSC on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 12:00 pm

Woakes removes Masood for 7
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 12:19 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Sir Christopher Woakes has a certain ring to it
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by GSC on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 12:19 pm

Ball hasn't got his rewards this morning, bowled well with good pace
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 12:58 pm

How things change as you go off battling for a gym.

Couple of wickets looks a lot healthier for england this morninmg but Pakistans have 5 quality bats still to go before the weak tail is exposed. As the ball gets older its hard to see England ripping through them

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 1:08 pm

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by kingraf on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 1:29 pm

Gooseberry wrote:How things change as you go off battling for a gym.

Couple of wickets looks a lot healthier for england this morninmg but Pakistans have 5 quality bats still to go before the weak tail is exposed. As the ball gets older its hard to see England ripping through them
I really, really, really, really hope you're talking about finding an actual gym and not a Pokémon gym
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by GSC on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 1:50 pm

Ball gets Ali lbw, reprieved by a helpful Umpires Call. Deserved that wicket
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 1:54 pm

Misbah easily one of my favourite batsmen in the world
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 2:46 pm

Missed the first hour and a half...seems fairly even : this partnership important for Pakistan.

Quite impressed by what I've seen of Ball : nice action , bit of pace , good line - looks distinctly handy.
Less so Finn who seems to have gone backwards again - far too much sliding down leg. Though he was unlucky when Root failed to hang onto that low chance at slip.

Woakes first two wickets I didn't see : bowled a pretty good first spell ?

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 3:00 pm

Too many dropped catches already.

Up at Scarbrough Finn was probably only Middlesex's 4th best seamer (behind Roly Turban Jones, Murtaugh and even Franklin). Yet when he is good he is very, very good.

Glad that Woakes continues to prove me wrong.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by GSC on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 3:07 pm

Broad removes Younus.

Think Finn has a lot of work to do to keep his place when Anderson returns.
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 3:08 pm

Broad gets a key wicket - rather out of the blue , that .

Thought Younis was settled in , but he rather mistimed that clip ...a welcome break for England.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 5:23 pm

This pitch really is rubbish - 70 overs into day one and you have 6ft 6 Steve Finn bowling 85 mph bouncers that are nearly double bouncing to the keeper

Lords pitches are consistently dull and low and boring
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 5:26 pm

Misbah sweeping >>>>> everything else in cricket
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by kingraf on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 5:52 pm

Moeen is literally leaking runs like a faucet and Cook can't even take him off because he's so far behind the over rate
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 5:53 pm

Misbah heart heart heart heart heart
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 6:19 pm

Is Woakes injured or something?

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 6:21 pm

I thank you.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 9:23 pm

Given the pitch and how Poopie Ali has veen England should be pretty happy with the score. Two good bats left but pakistan will do well to bat much past 350.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 9:26 pm

--Pak are in the game and with their nose ahead I think the end of D1.

I had said in my preview....Pak don't need to get huge scores...but simply ensure they don't get blown away some for 150 odd.
Their very skill full bowling will keep them in the game with score of 250-300ish and they are likely to exceed it here

--Pak's batting ain't as bad as some thought...they are a 250-300 side against a quality bowling on most pitches...actually their batting style takes pitch out of equation.

Misbah, Younis are 100 scoring candidates...supported by Asad, sarfaraz, hafeez, azhar who will score 30s to 70s as support cast and that will remain the general pattern throuhg the series.
Little Asad reminded me of kiran More in stature and stroke play

I heard commentators call this a placid pitch......in the subcontinent, depending on who you talk to this would be called anywhere from sporting to a green pitch...one that seamers would look forward to bowling on.

I expect pak bowlers will get more out of this pitch.

--Eng seamers bowled too full at the start..but did not get the type of swing you'd want with that length
New guy Jake Ball looked like a clumsier but faster version of Broad

Each time I have seen Woakes....I have rated him highly.... for 2 years now..much before he started delivering.
He is living to the potential now with the ball....and once established in the team...will deliver with the bat....and the upside...he has technique of a top 5 batter..and it's a matter of time he works his way up the order.
"Poor man's Kallis" is what I called him not too long back.

--Finn has lost a yard of pace and needs a bit more zip in the pitch to be effective.
Good spin playing sides like Lanka and Pak expose Ali...but Eng don't have anyone really better....so no point in being too critical of him

they still have sarfaraz and Misbah and so 350 is likely and that is a winning score for this pak bowling side......given that Eng would have to contend with Yasir in the 4th inning where even 200 will tricky chase
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 10:55 pm

KP_fan - I see you say about England not really having anyone better than Ali - I think Moeen has to be careful. His bowling really has not progressed at all over the past year or so, and I would argue that guys like Rashid (and at a push Ansari) are really not that much worse (in fact I think I rate Rashid's bowling higher now)

He really needs to put in some good performances with the ball over the coming tests - or else I could see Rashid coming into the side
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 5:08 am

Good day for Pakistan - not too surprised , I didn't think their batting was rubbish , though the tail looks a bit long.
Can't have KP_fan's assertion that their style "takes the pitch out of the equation" : if one or two of the other venues produce "typical English seaming" conditions I'd expect Anderson & co to have some fun with them - though I wouldn't rule out the Pakistan bowlers replying in kind...

Too early to get predictive about this game , I think : pitch suggests the draw should be shorter odds than it was yesterday ; but if Pakistan are dismissed around luncheon (possible , surely ?) there will be time for either side to get a result.
England won't want to be 50/3 again ; but the deep batting lineup gives some comfort. Hope the weather plays fair...

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Mat on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 8:53 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:KP_fan - I see you say about England not really having anyone better than Ali - I think Moeen has to be careful. His bowling really has not progressed at all over the past year or so, and I would argue that guys like Rashid (and at a push Ansari) are really not that much worse (in fact I think I rate Rashid's bowling higher now)

He really needs to put in some good performances with the ball over the coming tests - or else I could see Rashid coming into the side

Blasphemy!

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 9:07 am

Id disgaree that Pakistan are ahead, this is a 400 + pitch and conditions. That said its pretty balanced because they will have the better of it, Im not convinced by Englands batting, and they have the spinners to take cause problems even if theres not much wear. I dont see 350 as a winning score, England can easily match that even if just through th sheer depth of their batting....certainly I dont think Pakistan will be entirely happy. Very much game on.

Anyone that thought Pakistand batting was bad was bonkers. Sure they have one dodgy opener but they still have 6 other guys who can handle a bat, and a middle order oozing quality (if aged). If this had been Trent bridge on a grey day then yeah sure, but then Cook is rubbish in those conditions too.

Finn has never actually been that fast. Its more obvious on slow pitches with no bounce, and really he wasnt a greta pick for this game ...but England do lack many bowlers who would add variety to their attack.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 9:28 am

Mat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:KP_fan - I see you say about England not really having anyone better than Ali - I think Moeen has to be careful. His bowling really has not progressed at all over the past year or so, and I would argue that guys like Rashid (and at a push Ansari) are really not that much worse (in fact I think I rate Rashid's bowling higher now)

He really needs to put in some good performances with the ball over the coming tests - or else I could see Rashid coming into the side

Blasphemy!

Sorry Mat - you know I love Moeen - but his bowling has been tripe so far this summer, he really needs to learn to flight the ball and vary his pace better.
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by VTR on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 10:07 am

Hard to know what to make of that day - the bowling didn't sound too clever but hung in there and every chance of below 350 and being more than in the game.

Does seem like more of a bowling day today, so hopefully England can finish off the tail but will then need to apply themselves well with the bat as I expect Amir to be hooping it round today

I can't believe - and am pleasantly surprised - that Woakes is now miles ahead of Finn on current form. In fact Finn needs to be dropped in all honesty

Agree with Oli re Moeen. If we have the four seamers and want to rotate them in short bursts, we can't have the spinner easily being milked for 6 an over whilst also not looking like taking a wicket. England must be tempted to go for Rashid, who may go for runs but could pick up some wickets (seamers likely to have to still bowl a lot) or Ansari as a holding bowler helping to keep the seamers fresh

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Mat on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 10:15 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Mat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:KP_fan - I see you say about England not really having anyone better than Ali - I think Moeen has to be careful. His bowling really has not progressed at all over the past year or so, and I would argue that guys like Rashid (and at a push Ansari) are really not that much worse (in fact I think I rate Rashid's bowling higher now)

He really needs to put in some good performances with the ball over the coming tests - or else I could see Rashid coming into the side

Blasphemy!

Sorry Mat - you know I love Moeen - but his bowling has been tripe so far this summer, he really needs to learn to flight the ball and vary his pace better.

He's not been great, didn't bowl all that much against Sri Lanka though in fairness.

I'd still have him in the side as a Batsman if Rashid comes in(or a.n other if someone breaks through, Crane looks pretty decent at Hampshire)

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 10:31 am

Mat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Mat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:KP_fan - I see you say about England not really having anyone better than Ali - I think Moeen has to be careful. His bowling really has not progressed at all over the past year or so, and I would argue that guys like Rashid (and at a push Ansari) are really not that much worse (in fact I think I rate Rashid's bowling higher now)

He really needs to put in some good performances with the ball over the coming tests - or else I could see Rashid coming into the side

Blasphemy!

Sorry Mat - you know I love Moeen - but his bowling has been tripe so far this summer, he really needs to learn to flight the ball and vary his pace better.

He's not been great, didn't bowl all that much against Sri Lanka though in fairness.

I'd still have him in the side as a Batsman if Rashid comes in(or a.n other if someone breaks through, Crane looks pretty decent at Hampshire)

I was gonna suggest that if Vince doesn't show something soon and Bairstow keeps up his form you could go with

Cook, Hales, Root, Ballance, Bairstow, Stokes, Ali, Rashid, Woakes, Broad, Anderson

I'd expect something like that for the winter tours
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 11:35 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Sir Christopher Woakes has a certain ring to it

notworthy notworthy notworthy
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 11:38 am

I was just about to post that if Wahab is number 9, it doesn't say much for numbers 10 and 11. Wahab then goes second ball, admittedly a beauty from Olly's pin up.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 11:42 am

Ball is currently swinging for Woakes - will be interesting to see how Amir goes in a bit
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 12:07 pm

the collapse notwithstanding....this is as good a total as Pak batsmen will give to their bowler and with the additional upside of giving Yasir to bowl 4th.

Pak bowling has to stand up and deliver the superiority they represent on paper and overcome the depth of English batting....you can have this eng side 5 down for little and yet the next 5 can get them to a fighting total.

Mooen is a very plucky player....his mediocrity as a spinner notwithstanding...
and it would be a mistake to bring a visibly equally mediocre spinner and with unproven batting skills and unproven big moment temperament in tests.

Eng's weak links are guys called JM Vince and ST Finn in this game.
with the kind of form Roy and Butler have demonstrated in ODIs ....most other teams would have atleast one of them if not both in the test playing 11.
and I am sure that that's what will happen if Vince fails more.

Finn and Ball will make way for Anderson, Wood and Stokes i Believe.....so that isn't a long term issue
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 12:11 pm

guildfordbat wrote:I was just about to post that if Wahab is number 9, it doesn't say much for numbers 10 and 11. Wahab then goes second ball, admittedly a beauty from Olly's pin up.

None of their 4 bowlers can bat for toffee. Its why I thought England should be pretty satisifed with yesterdays play, they only have Misbah and the keeper to worry about, Pakistans tail is a proper old school tail.

339 in these conditions is not great, even if Pakistan do have good bowlers. They will be reliant on a lkot of overs of spin, and whilst they have much better options there than England the pitch wont be much help first innings. With their batting depth England should be looking at a lead here, Amir or not.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 12:20 pm

prodigious inswing to RHB.......at decent but not express pace
and then one that held the line was beyond Hales' skill to handle as he was fully and only prepared to negotiate the inswing
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 12:25 pm

amir isn't getting the one that bends back in to the RHB
that's when he is dangerous.
Rythm not right......when in rythmy he exceeds 90mph
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 12:26 pm

Good comeback from England late yesterday and this morning.  But with one England wicket gone already, it looks like Pakistan bowlers will make life tough for England. Really need a classic captain's innings from Cook. 

Tbh, (as a Surrey supporter) I doubt that Roy would consistently do all that well if he was batting against fresh, top class swing/seam bowling.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 12:30 pm

I see from cricinfo that Cook is now England's leading run scorer in tests against Pakistan, having just overtaken Gower. clap

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 12:31 pm

Cook for the T20 team?

Gooseberry

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Join date : 2015-02-11

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Sponsored content


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