England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

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England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 13 Jul 2016, 1:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

It has been confirmed that Jake Ball will make his debut tomorrow so England line up as

Cook
Hales
Root
Vince
Ballance
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Ball
Finn
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 1:33 pm

Andy Zaltzman
ZaltzCricket
OBSCURE STAT ALERT: Pakistan 1st inns lead: 67. England after conceding a 1st-inns lead of 60-70 runs since 1995: Won 6, Drawn 1, Lost 0.


All that matters. thumbsup

England need to wrap this second innings up by early tomorrow morning - I'd feel confident of England chasing anything up to 325.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 1:48 pm

Good, good. Cook snaffles an edge off Woakes' bowling.

Two down. Could be a damaging mini-session for Pakistan.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by GSC on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 2:45 pm

Misbah follows Ali with a soft dismissal to Englands Ali. Game on.
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 2:46 pm

And the much reviled Moeen strikes a major blow as Misbah attempts to hit him out of London and succeeds only in finding Hales on the cow corner boundary ; excellent catch.

Pakistan effectively 127/4 and game is well alive...

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 2:56 pm

Can't say I share Duty's optimism about chasing a suggested 325.

Reckon even 225 would be a nervy sort of chase. But with four wickets taken already , and the long Pakistan tail , the home team will be feeling they are right in this now. Younus probably the key now , though Shafiq could take the game away quickly if he gets in.

Agh . England waste their second review...not getting these calls right in this match at all. Though I guess without the little edge that was going to be stone dead. Hope they don't have a clear wicket turned down later...

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 3:10 pm

Nearly another one...Finn thought he had one at last but the review shows that to have been a poor call by the umpire. Looked a bit high to me first off , to be honest.

Encouragement for Finn , though. And England continuing to press. You feel another wicket now could bring the Pakistan house down quite quickly. Important half hour to tea now...

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 3:29 pm

Hi again Alfie - thought maybe you and others had disappeared to watch Greenidge & Gomes on youtube. Wink

Be very interesting to see what sort of total we'll be chasing. A couple of quick wickets and it could be under 200. However, if these two can keep going to tea and beyond it could be a lot more. Certainly wouldn't fancy us to get 325 on a day 4 and a half / day 5 pitch, even at Lord's, against Yasir who now has the psychological edge.

Like you, thought Finn's 'lbw' was too high and so it proved.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 4:13 pm

Hi guildford

Not much traffic on here today/tonight , for some reason - quite an interesting Test.

Pakistan edged away a bit in the forty minutes before tea...couple of close shaves , but this partnership has calmed nerves in the dressing room , I should think ; and England really need to break it soon or things might get away from them.
Not sure how many they can chase , as I don't actually think the pitch will get substantially harder to bat on until Monday ...even so , they will have to work out a better plan against Yasir . One or two of them just didn't have much clue against him ; and those that did seemed to overdo the aggression and paid for it...need to strike a balance between care and passivity.

Not much on offer for the pace men now. At least Moeen has kept decent control in this innings - aided by some over cautious batting by Pakistan - but England need a wicket from somewhere...

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 4:27 pm

And there it is ! A timely wicket for Moeen as the very patient Younus gets out in a similar manner to Jonny Bairstow's dismissal yesterday. To be fair to the batsman it did turn in ; but I don't think it was a a good choice to attempt a cut to that.

Shafiq now the key man ; he's set , scores quite quickly ...get him now and England will fancy this...

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 4:42 pm

Lead stretched to 210 now and these two tend to score quite briskly ; so next wicket (and the Door to the Tail) needs to come soon...

Broad bowling an excellent tight spell but he can't go forever. Moeen is a two edged sword at present : is probably the best chance of wickets , but can leak runs. I'd be tempted to rest him for a couple of overs and try a bit of pace from both ends , just to tighten it up.

Woakes back for Broad.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 5:06 pm

We definitely needed that - good bowling again by Woakes as he gets Shafiq for 49. Pakistan lead by 235 with the long tail now starting. Important we don't let it wag.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 6:40 pm

Should be a cracking day tomorrow.

Meanwhile, just to emphasise that Woakes has massively improved over the last year or so. Bowling here with more pace and considerable nous.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by kingraf on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 6:42 pm

England are pretty far behind the eight ball here. Not yet out of reach, but its already in "special knock" territory
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 7:31 pm

Yeah struggling to see us chase these down without a special knock from either Cook or Root

Woakes again brilliant - have to think his spot in the side is cemented for a while to come
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 7:49 pm

--well Pak will go into D4 quite clearly ahead in the game....and another 20 to 30 runs will all but put it in the bag for Pak.

--the theme continues.....Pak medicore batting struggled against moderate Eng bowling on what in subcontinent will be called a sporitng pitch...swing, seam, some bounce, some spin.....dunno why some call this placid.

And Eng's good, deep batting came second to pak's mercurial bowling.....and that's likely to continue.

--the onLY outside chance is if Cook anchors the inning and hold one ends almost until the end of the chase
AND
Root plays a meaningful inning...if not a hundred atleats a big 50

Pak get these two and the game is in the bag for sure.

--I would tomm give Woakes to bat at 4 or 5 ...he is a correct staright batted, batsman.....in high confidence and has few times been wasted coming too low and going n.o

It's not a gamble....Eng lose nothing but a steady 70 odd from him might change the game for Eng....
BUT it's too radical for Eng.
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:59 am

England will have the game all-but won this time tomorrow, mark my words!

They'll want to chase fewer than 300, though - psychology, old chap - and are well placed to do so.

I remember the agony of England chasing 340 to beat Sri Lanka four years ago - they had the game surely won at 233/4, but collapsed to 264 all out (and I'm still not sure how).

Redemption, please, with the odd lashing of hope and glory.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:20 am

Really could still go either way . Rather have Pakistan's position - chases around 300 are never easy - but I don't think England are out of it at all.
There wasn't much there for the pace bowlers once the shine went off , save for the odd ball keeping a touch low. You could see from the ease with which even Yasir was able to keep the bowling out late in the day that sensible patient batting will yield runs , albeit more slowly than earlier in the game : I'd expect this to still be the case tomorrow.
Obviously Yasir , and the way England play him , is the key. Here I am a little less inclined to despair than some : I thought he bowled very well in the first innings ; but that he was aided by some poor judgement from some of the batsmen. Notably Root and Bairstow , but also Ali : they all fell playing shots that really were not needed in the circumstances , and presumably were motivated out of an urge to dominate the spinner - when really all that was required was a bit of patience ...if it isn't easy to "milk" Yasir , it is still possible to keep the score moving with singles and the odd boundary from the loose balls that any spin merchant supplies from time to time. And at the same time , keep the pressure on the other bowlers - remembering there are only three and if they have to keep coming back tiredness will play a part...
It will require a bit of a tweak to the current mindset of "attack at all cost " that seems to rule the England batting plan ; but if they can keep their heads , and keep their heads down , long enough (they should not be under any time pressure) then I believe a chase even of around 300 is at least possible.
Of course they still have to take two more wickets. Woakes and Broad with a night's sleep will fancy their chances of that I think - but it still needs doing. The last thing they want is a frisky 30 from the rabbits ; so I hope they are on the ball from the off.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:49 am

As to the day just gone : some good performances : both Sarfraz and Shafiq played well , at a time when Pakistan were arguably only a couple more wickets away from complete collapse...and Younus , although practically strokeless , played his part in wearing the edge off the England attack. A word for Yasir , too : he isn't much of a batsman ; but he batted it out quite determinedly and prevented England from having the target set before the close , when it had begun to look as if they'd be starting to chase something like 260 late last night.
On the England side Woakes continued to be the standout ; another top bowling performance , to follow some solid batting. (To be honest , I am just a little critical of his batting , sound though it was : I felt he could have shown rather more intent in the morning , and looked to score while taking the bulk of the strike. As it was he basically just outlasted his tailend partners , but to no useful purpose : even a few frisky thumps might have brought more than the 19 runs yielded by the last three wickets. But I suppose that is a little harsh)
Broad also bowled rather well , I thought. Dried up the runs and in doing so helped Moeen to break through with his second vital wicket , though he was somewhat short of direct rewards himself. Ball once again looked distinctly useful , without actually getting a result ; and both Moeen and Finn (who was most unlucky late in the day ) were a big improvement on recent efforts.
That brings me to the inevitable recurring issue of Bairstow and missed chances. Once again he managed to put down an apparently easy chance - ironically moments after the commentators had - quite rightly - drawn attention to the fact that he had been keeping extremely well throughout a match in which taking low balls had proved difficult for both wicketkeepers and slips alike. Was it tiredness ? A momentary loss of focus as the game appeared to be drifting ? Or just a little misjudgement ...whatever , it is bound to keep the doubters on his case - reasonably enough.
A pity ; because right now I think the England batting remains too fragile to allow a less able batsman to be installed in the keepers spot . It may well be that Stokes returns in place of Vince or Ballance ; so England are risking having about half a dozen ideal number sevens and a distinct lack of fours and fives. And at the same time I do agree that Jonny actually is improving with the gloves - just has this maddening habit of shelling that one important chance. Suspect this argument will run a while yet.
Apart from that , it is clear that England have a big advantage in the fielding area : this Pakistan side has a few camels...

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by robbo277 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 8:03 am

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, but England would need a very special 4th innings to reach this total. The first two partnerships will need to put on around 150 between them to help settle any nerves, and then whoever is left standing when we're two down will need to go on and bat through the chase.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by msp83 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 8:05 am

A terrific test match so far. Pakistan just ahead, but England are very much in it. Yasir,  and Cook and Root, and England's batting depth are going to be the key from now on.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 11:04 am

Wicket in the first over! Short stuff from Broad gets Yasir.

One more.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 11:11 am

And there's the second of the day. Nothing shot. Well done Broad.

283 to get.

England all the way.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 11:19 am

So looking at England's batting:

Cook and Root are the high-class pair.
Vince and Ballance need a good score.
Hales has the ability to score a quick-fire 50+ which may put the opposition on the defensive.
Bairstow is very talented.
Ali, Woakes and Broad can chip in if required.

Essentially, England will likely need one (or both) of Cook/Root to score a ton plus, with a couple of half-centuries from Hales/Vince/Ballance/Bairstow, and they should be fine.

England by five wickets.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 11:19 am

First part of the job done exactly as required clap Well bowled S Broad.

Now for the tricky bit Smile

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 11:21 am

Four off the first ball!

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 11:38 am

19/1 - Cook departs after an excellent ball (poor footwork though).

Pakistan's bowling very inconsistent.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 11:55 am

What is this foolish mentality that England choose to employ?

Going after every ball as though today is the last day?

Don't p!ss this game away.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 11:59 am

.
Eng gave themself a sniff with a sub-300 chase....

But 2 down and it wasn't gonna be easy

Cook was 1/3rd battle won....and when they get Root it would be 2/3rd game won....

rest are filling in places.....20s and 30s at best......confronted with quality bowling, deteriorating pitch and pressure of 4th inning chase / defeat after a long time.

although it's still not completely lost for Eng yet
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:04 pm

You underestimate England's batting and, in turn, overestimate the quality of Pakistan's highly inconsistent bowling.

The game is, broadly speaking, perfectly balanced.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:06 pm

*Jinx alert*

Vince looking good. Picking his shots well early on (pay attention, Mr. Hales!).

Even money that England triumph = I like.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:20 pm

Brilliant effort from Younis, but he just squanders the chance to snaffle Vince.

46/2.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by JDizzle on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:27 pm

Genuinely awful shot from Root. No attempt to either keep it down or go over the top for 6. Simple catch for Yasir. And that is the game, barring anything ridiculous.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:27 pm

47/3, Root mistimes a pull.

England wobbling dangerously, but not out of it.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:30 pm

Well played Pakistan. All over bar the shouting, I'm afraid.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:33 pm

Duty281 wrote:You underestimate England's batting and, in turn, overestimate the quality of Pakistan's highly inconsistent bowling.

The game is, broadly speaking, perfectly balanced.

I am more likely to under/ overestimate situations with India is playing....not in a neutral game....

Eng is a brilliant side but are up and against it unfortunately in my fair view...even with Yasir having bowled just one over.

2/3rd game in the bag for Pak, with Root holding out
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:35 pm

Cook was unlucky to get a good ball, but Hales and Root gifted their wickets.

At 47-3 England will be lucky to get much past 200, given their notoriously useless middle order. Even the tail doesn't fill you with much confidence lately.

Rahat pretty well owning England at the moment.


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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:36 pm

230 to get.

Astounded at claims that England are out of it. Not so.

Highly-skilled and talented batsmen are still there for the English.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:38 pm

Go away for forty five minutes and all hell breaks loose...

All unravelled pretty quickly it seems . Good bowling or bad shots ?

England will have some thinking to do before Friday. I guess if they can win the toss at Old Trafford they may turn things around. But I hope they are practical enough to reverse decisions that just haven't worked...ie get Root back to four. Then they can rearrange the batting around him. These two now at the crease are surely playing for their places...or ought to be.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:38 pm

Duty281 wrote:230 to get.

Astounded at claims that England are out of it. Not so.

Highly-skilled and talented batsmen are still there for the English.


Depends which England you're talking about. Did you mean the women's team or the U-21s?
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:43 pm

Duty281 wrote:230 to get.

Astounded at claims that England are out of it. Not so.

Highly-skilled and talented batsmen are still there for the English.

I do admire your optimism , Duty. (You are maintaining it far better than you managed at the football recently Smile

But it is going to take a minor miracle from here. Not impossible ; but very unlikely.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:49 pm

Eek! Vince riding his luck, but playing some good shots too and most importantly getting runs on the board.

Feel like anything can happen right now.
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:52 pm

how long can Vince go trading in boundaries like he is Shocked
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 1:01 pm

Here comes the rain...

Thought this was supposed to be a beautiful sunny day ?  At least it is coinciding with lunch in a few balls...hopefully will go away soon.

Edit ...doesn't look like much rain to me . What are the commentators on about ?


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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 1:02 pm

Under 200 now. 193.

The folly of England's earlier mentality, which the Sky commentators foolishly supported, has been replaced by a more watchful outlook by Vince and Ballance which is yielding a far richer fruit.

While Vince remains, I am confident. He appears to have in his possession for this innings the most cherished combination: luck and ability.

Still baffled by anyone counting England out - they only have to bat for another two sessions and they are victorious. The new ball has lost its potency, and she won't be reversing with menace for another hour or so yet.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 1:09 pm

Vince has been playing pretty well since I've been watching. If he can ward off the curse of The Praise from Shane Warne he might play a place saving hand here ?
A team saving hand would be even nicer Smile

The speed with which this game is advancing suggests we are looking at a result today. Likely ten wickets ; but if not , I guess England will be hitting the winning runs in the extra half hour !


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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 1:48 pm

Vince goes, and my confidence takes a brutal hit.

Poor shot selection as the ball angled away. He didn't play himself in after the interval.

When will England learn - there is no rush!!!!!!

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 1:50 pm

on a lucky day.... when you chance your arm so often...and yet get the career highest 40odd....doesn't prognose well for the longevity of your career Crying or Very sad
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 1:52 pm

Vince gone .

42 enough to save his spot for Old Trafford ? I'm not sure it should be ; but suspect they will persevere with him.

Can be stubborn , the England management . Probably will persist with Root at three , also. Bayliss seems to think this is the way of the future : it may be. May also lose them this series while experimenting...

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 1:58 pm

Safe to say one of these two will need to go big for England to have a chance.

I'm still of a positive mind of England's chances. Pakistan lacking full confidence/aggression in their field placings...and it's only 180 runs.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:05 pm

Duty281 wrote:Safe to say one of these two will need to go big for England to have a chance.

I'm still of a positive mind of England's chances. Pakistan lacking full confidence/aggression in their field placings...and it's only 180 runs.

So near...yet so far... Wink
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

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