England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

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England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 13 Jul 2016, 1:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

It has been confirmed that Jake Ball will make his debut tomorrow so England line up as

Cook
Hales
Root
Vince
Ballance
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Ball
Finn
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by msp83 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:06 pm

Pakistan ahead for sure, but England bat down to 9 and that means they aren't out of it yet. If these can put together a 50+ partnership, Pakistan will be back under pressure.
England are 4 down, but Yasir hasn't got a wicket yet. Is the pressure of expectation getting to him? He's been bowling a bit flat for my liking.......

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:08 pm

Pakistan getting away with their persistent running on the wicket. Poor umpiring.

*Jinx alert* Ballance/Bairstow using their feet well against Yasir.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:08 pm

50 from SuperWoakes to win the match?

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:12 pm

Yeah one good partnership would put pressure back on Pakistan...and they don't always handle pressure well.
But it is getting to the point where one mistake and its curtains for England . And with Pakistan essentially on top throughout this match , if never by much , you can't help getting the feeling that they are eventually destined to win this match...even if England force them to work for the win.
To be honest , they haven't made them work too much today so far : lots of frisky boundary hitting but not really a sense of permanence . Seems as if England are sticking to their preferred game plan of aggression pretty well whatever the situation...which is entertaining ; but may be a little beyond their capabilities with the current lineup , against a strong opponent - certainly when having to bat last.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by alfie on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:13 pm

Duty281 wrote:Pakistan getting away with their persistent running on the wicket. Poor umpiring.

*Jinx alert* Ballance/Bairstow using their feet well against Yasir.

All these "jinx alerts " , Duty ?

You haven't placed a bet on Pakistan by any chance ?

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:16 pm

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Pakistan getting away with their persistent running on the wicket. Poor umpiring.

*Jinx alert* Ballance/Bairstow using their feet well against Yasir.

All these "jinx alerts " , Duty ?

You haven't placed a bet on Pakistan by any chance ?

Never, never, never!

I'm still backing England. 168 to go (this WinViz graphic by Sky is rubbish).

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:21 pm

Bairstow nicks a four. Pakistan strangely reluctant to have a third slip.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by msp83 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:29 pm

Amir takes over from Yasir. Yasir wasn't really threatening that much and I think its the right call from Misbah to give him a bit of time off.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by msp83 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:39 pm

Another 20 runs more from these 2, and Pakistan will be rather concerned. They haven't looked all that settled, but it is the runs that matter, and the fact that they are there.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:42 pm

Now this is how England should have been playing from the start - block, block, nudge, block, block, nurdle.

152 to get. The next hour will probably get the required number close to/into double digits.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:53 pm

Ballance bowled by an excellent delivery - reminded me of Warne v Strauss.

Still 147 to get.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by msp83 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 2:59 pm

Wow! What has Yasir done there??! Legspin is a wonderful art!

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 3:00 pm

England right up against it. 139 - 6. Looks like we will lose quite comfortably....  Sad


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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 3:01 pm

The height of idiocy from Moeen Ali.

Absolutely braindead.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by msp83 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 3:03 pm

Well, Woakes will now have to finish it off for England with the bat too, as Yasir gets Moeen!

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 3:08 pm

England cross the halfway mark. Every cloud and that.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 3:13 pm

50% runs done...and 4 wickets in hand
and Pak one wkt away from Tail...that can be initimidated by this bowling
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 3:16 pm

All over bar the crying.

England's batting has been truly pathetic.
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 3:19 pm

England have played well below their ability in this test.

The batting in this chase has been rather strange - they started as though it was a One-Day game and they needed to knock off the 283 in 50 overs.

Ballance showed the way with a watchful approach, and if others had played like that the outlook could be fundamentally different.

England's hopes of completing the chance rely predominantly on Bairstow, who is slowly growing in confidence.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 3:46 pm

Bairstow and Woakes see it through to tea.

128 still required. Inspiration sorely required.

I think I am of the calm and measured opinion that Moeen Ali should be dropped for indulging in such a pathetic shot.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by msp83 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 3:50 pm

Can Bairstow and Woakes perform a minor miracle to save England here?

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 4:05 pm

Atherton and Botham favouring the 'Woakes is destined to lead England to a famous victory'.

Hmmmm.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 4:19 pm

It's down to 122 to win.

Just bat, and bat, and bat.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 4:26 pm

Playing for the draw?

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 4:34 pm

Poor old Woakesy.

Expected to keep England in the game with both his bowling AND batting.

Lets hope he and JB are still at the crease at the close of play. We may just have a chance then.
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 5:17 pm

Wow - life there for Woakes! Yasir thought he had him lbw...umpire gave it...overturned on appeal.

Not much left of my fingernails now.

Bairstow continuing his Leonidas-like stand.
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 5:31 pm

Excellent, disciplined 50 partnership. clap

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 5:43 pm

Duty281 wrote:
alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Pakistan getting away with their persistent running on the wicket. Poor umpiring.

*Jinx alert* Ballance/Bairstow using their feet well against Yasir.

All these "jinx alerts " , Duty ?

You haven't placed a bet on Pakistan by any chance ?

Never, never, never!

I'm still backing England. 168 to go (this WinViz graphic by Sky is rubbish).

Firmly agree with that. Has it replaced the WASP thing? That was utter garbage too.

Meanwhile, England are almost at the end of the road. Only 2 wickets left and 87 needed - sorry, Duty, but that's far too many.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 5:46 pm

England collapsing like a stack of Jenga blocks.

Bairstow missing a short one, Broad a full one and Finn barely survives a big lbw shout.
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 5:47 pm

Finn has hit a half-century before!

We shall go on to the end.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 5:47 pm

Far from convinced anyone knew what they were doing with the lbw review of Finn.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 5:50 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Pakistan getting away with their persistent running on the wicket. Poor umpiring.

*Jinx alert* Ballance/Bairstow using their feet well against Yasir.

All these "jinx alerts " , Duty ?

You haven't placed a bet on Pakistan by any chance ?

Never, never, never!

I'm still backing England. 168 to go (this WinViz graphic by Sky is rubbish).

Firmly agree with that. Has it replaced the WASP thing? That was utter garbage too.

Meanwhile, England are almost at the end of the road. Only 2 wickets left and 87 needed - sorry, Duty, but that's far too many.

Well..."the future of in-play cricket analytics. Cricket intelligence at the next level. #WinViz" Shocked

https://twitter.com/cricprof


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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 5:51 pm

I'm firmly of the belief that Woakes should swing the bat, rather than defend, as Finn and Ball are wickets waiting to happen.


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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 6:02 pm

Duty281 wrote:I'm firmly of the believe that Woakes should swing the bat, rather than defend, as Finn and Ball are wickets waiting to happen.

Too late

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 6:02 pm

Duty281 wrote:I'm firmly of the believe that Woakes should swing the bat, rather than defend, as Finn and Ball are wickets waiting to happen.

You just said Finn has hit a half-century before...make your mind up laddie! Wink

Question is whether Ball can defend long enough for him to do it again. Laugh


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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by GSC on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 6:02 pm

Decent effort by England but flaky top order cost us again.
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 6:04 pm

GSC wrote:Decent effort by England but flaky top order cost us again.

Top order definitely guilty but you also have to question why none of the middle order could get past 50.

Interesting to note the top order were all undone by Rahat, while the middle order (all but one) succumbed to Yasir. Something for the coaching staff to work on?
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by trebellbobaggins on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 6:10 pm

Great Pakistan bowling but in the end it comes down to poor batting t the top in both innings losing it for England.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by msp83 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 6:54 pm

Excellent win for Pakistan. They continue to be a fine bowling side. And this time, their batsman managed enough runs for the bowlers to get into the game.
Yasir was truly outstanding, and Amir, Rahat and Wahab all had their moments. Terrific captain's knock from Misbah in the first innings and valuable contributions in both innings from Asad Shafiq.
For England, the top order didn't quite do the job, with Hales failing in both innings, Cook failing to convert his multiple letoffs into a big score and Root giving it away with a rather over aggressive stroke in the first innings. Bairstow scored a few runs and toughed it out in particular in the 2nd innings, so did Ballance. Vince tried to hit his way out of trouble in the 2nd innings. But that middle order just doesn't look all that solid.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 7:06 pm

--So I had granted 220 as the limit of what Eng could compete in a chase....a bit on the charitable side ( to Eng) but close

--bowlers win test matches was proven yet again by this below pak team with below par batting...and as long as their 20 wickets scramble and combine to give 500 runs or more per test...they will be competitive.

not necessarily win all with 500 minimum but will win some and come close to winning remaining games even with 500.

--and I feel the best of Amir and Wahab is yet to come.....90+mph reverse swinging furious spell from each that will turn around the game once or twice in this series each.

and much as they appeared to be loose...Pak bowlers were actually bowling test match attacking lengths....on the fuller side and sucking the batsmen into mistakes of the front foot.

and this was deemed a placid pitch so they can be getting more potent from here not less.

replace Vince ( with Butler)... and off course anderson comes in in next game .

and somehow get woakes to bat higher
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 7:19 pm

and off course it's a mistake to send Root at No.3 Wink

Don't try to fix what ain't broke

now will they fix it immediately or spend 8 innings too justify a mistake Smile
and when they do bring him down again to 4 eventually...what's the risk that the up-n-down the order will invoke bad form of root and that too just before the next ashes Smile
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by msp83 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 7:22 pm

Wahab showed his mercurial side in an old ball spell to Woakes and Bairstow. They were just lucky to survive that....... This is what we are more likely to get from Whab, a some loose stuff, a bit of inconsistency, and then a spell worth remembering, all within a day's work.
Amir kept things tight even when he wasn't getting too many wickets and did not look on top rhythm. Surely nowhere near his peak I felt.
Rahat I haven't been sure and still not quite so despite that decisive opening spell in England 2nd innings. But he's not a bad bet at all.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 7:26 pm

Stokes in for Finn and Anderson in for Ball? Bad luck for both players left out, but that would probably improve the team at this moment in time.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 7:27 pm

Buttler has a broken finger KP_F, so won't be available probably for the rest of the summer

Stokes for Vince and Anderson for Finn the changes in my book - even if Stokes can't bowl
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by msp83 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 7:31 pm

Root was playing some fabulous cricket in the middle order. He might well be able to do a job at 3, but England would been better of leaving him where he was. Compton deserved his chance, got it and failed to take it. Ballance isn't the man to be a number 3 with his technical issues. Perhaps England could have tried out someone new. Read Scot Borthwick being considered. His original England selection as the English Shane Warne was ridiculous, but it seems he's come a long way as a batter.......
And who would Ben Stokes replace in the playing 11 for the next game? Anderson will come in for Ball, but who will make way for Stokes? Vince? Ballance? Finn? Ali? Ballance is unlikely to be dropped 1 test into his recall. and doesn't deserve it either. If they are to drop Ali, then there has to be a restructuring of the side to bring in a spinner in Rashid. Which again means both Ali and Finn will have to sit out. If they replace Stokes with Vince, how would the batting order look like?

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by msp83 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 7:33 pm

Think they should not rush Stokes if he's not fit enough to bowl.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 7:35 pm

msp83 wrote:Think they should not rush Stokes if he's not fit enough to bowl.

Stokes has been bowling for Durham.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 7:45 pm

Cook, Hales, Root, Ballance, Bairstow, Stokes, Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson, Ball

Would be my side for the 2nd test

Harsh on Vince, and maybe you could take Ball out for Stokes (and go with Woakes as the 3rd seamer), but I prefer that side
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by KP_fan on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 7:46 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Buttler has a broken finger KP_F, so won't be available probably for the rest of the summer

Stokes for Vince and Anderson for Finn the changes in my book - even if Stokes can't bowl

Roy then it should be or Stokes as a batsman

anyone who has shown the ability to score big runs in an international game deserves a look in
instead of a technically correct county batsman , unproven at international level
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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

Post by James100 on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 10:01 pm

For me the easy calls are Anderson and Stokes in for Finn and Ball.

The tough choice is whether to keep Moeen and Vince, I reckon they will given that there are already 2 changes being made and they won't want to give an impression of an unsettled side. The two of them will have to perform well at old Trafford though to justify their positions.

I'm still banging the "Bairstow will never be an international standard keeper" drum, but it's looking like they'll only realise that once he has an absolute horror series.

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Re: England vs Pakistan, 1st Test, Lords (14th-18th July)

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