Toronto Masters

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Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Tue 19 Jul 2016, 10:32 pm

Federer pulls out and not a single post? This sites dying quickly! Murray and Fed already pulled out, as the power of the Olympics decimates Toronto. Suggestions are that Rafa will also withdraw, leaving it as Novak against the field. 

Will we finally have a Masters winner younger than Novak or will he cruise to the title?

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Tue 19 Jul 2016, 11:06 pm

Actually only heard about Federer pulling out from your post. Looks like the Olympics is killing Toronto. Looks like top tennis stars feel differently about the Olympics than top golf stars - at least to the extent that they rate the Olympics above a masters anyway. I assume they are pulling out because the schedule is so heavy this year. Never seen Canada masters hit by this many withdrawals before in any normal year.

This makes the event a big opportunity not just in terms of winning a title but in collecting prize money and ranking points, which of course are the same. Everyone will want to avoid Djokovic's section of the draw though.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by banbrotam on Wed 20 Jul 2016, 12:24 am

I posted about Fed earlier today,  but must not have hit the send button  Rolling Eyes

Certainly supports those of us who insist that The Olympics is now up there in status with the slams or rather, just behind it

Be good to see the top 3 at the top of their game, fighting it out for the medals

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Guest82 on Wed 20 Jul 2016, 9:18 am

Stan no 2 seed? Nishikori & Raonic make up the top four.

What odds for a Djokovic v Raonic final?

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by TRuffin on Wed 20 Jul 2016, 4:08 pm

banbrotam wrote:I posted about Fed earlier today,  but must not have hit the send button  Rolling Eyes

Certainly supports those of us who insist that The Olympics is now up there in status with the slams or rather, just behind it

Be good to see the top 3 at the top of their game, fighting it out for the medals

Lots of players withdrawing from the Olympics too though. The Olympic field will be fairly depleted. I think it's more the scheduling in relation to the paid tournaments more than anything... but certainly uber rich Federer, Djoko, or Nadal are going to care more about an Olympic Gold than another Montreal title. Close to a slam though? no.......

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Guest on Wed 20 Jul 2016, 6:56 pm

banbrotam wrote:I posted about Fed earlier today,  but must not have hit the send button  Rolling Eyes

Certainly supports those of us who insist that The Olympics is now up there in status with the slams or rather, just behind it

Be good to see the top 3 at the top of their game, fighting it out for the medals

No, not even close

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by socal1976 on Wed 20 Jul 2016, 11:32 pm

I did worry about Novak pushing it to hard with match play going into wimby, but then he lost early and got an extra week or ten day of rest. I think I'd like to see if he can lay down his marker again and refocus on the two big titles he can win this summer. The biggest of course being the open. I think Toronto with a depleted field needs to be the place where he gets his groove back. He hasn't played well since the French with two early losses on grass.

As for Murray he has to be coming into this hardcourt swing and Olympics feeling flush and confident. Andy won a Masters on clay and got to the finals of RG, and now wins his third slam with his favorite coach. I think Murray has to be feeling that this is his best chance to finally turn the tide in his one sided rivalry with Novak. He is the form horse right now on tour and Novak isn't he has to build on that and get some wins against his rival.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by TRuffin on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 6:45 pm

emancipator wrote:
banbrotam wrote:I posted about Fed earlier today,  but must not have hit the send button  Rolling Eyes

Certainly supports those of us who insist that The Olympics is now up there in status with the slams or rather, just behind it

Be good to see the top 3 at the top of their game, fighting it out for the medals

No, not even close

10 out of the top 30 players have pulled out of the Olympics.. 30+ percent. clearly not a big priority to much of the tour.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 8:09 pm

A big enough priority for Roger Federer though. Big enough for him to earmark Rio 2014 even four years ago.In any case those players withdrawing a lot are citing fears about the virus.
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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by TRuffin on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 9:01 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:A big enough priority for Roger Federer though. Big enough for him to earmark Rio 2014 even four years ago.In any case those players withdrawing a lot are citing fears about the virus.

Like I said the big guys still care to add any well known title to the glittering resume.. of course they'll trade an Olympic medal for a montreal title, but the rank and file would much rather have the money and points a montreal can provide.

Federer has stated he wants to win medals (whatever color) for his country- if singles gold was his big priority he wouldn't be playing mixed and doubles- all within a week.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 10:30 pm

Of course he is playing doubles as three chances of medals are better than one but let's not pretend that singles gold is not what he wants most of the three.
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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 11:42 pm

It ay be what he wants most - but he is deliberately reducing his chances of winning it by playing in 2 other events, indicating it is hardly top of his 'must win' list.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 11:46 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:It ay be what he wants most - but he is deliberately reducing his chances of winning it by playing in 2 other events, indicating it is hardly top of his 'must win' list.

Obviously, he'd take any medal but as his post-2012 London defeat comments showed it is the singles gold that drives him on. I am certain if he had not played the singles he would have not played the doubles. The reverse cannot be said.
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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by slashermcguirk on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 4:34 pm

I just cannot understand this tennis in the Olympics business, absolute nonsense. I love the game of tennis but it has no place at the Olympic games!! I know if I was a tennis player I would far rather win a grand slam or a world tour finals than an Olympic medal. It just doesn't seem right to be in there in my opinion.

Golf inclusion is also farcical

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by banbrotam on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 6:56 pm

TRuffin wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:A big enough priority for Roger Federer though. Big enough for him to earmark Rio 2014 even four years ago.In any case those players withdrawing a lot are citing fears about the virus.

Like I said the big guys still care to add any well known title to the glittering resume.. of course they'll trade an Olympic medal for a montreal title, but the rank and file would much rather have the money and points a montreal can provide.

Federer has stated he wants to win medals (whatever color) for his country-   if singles gold was his big priority he wouldn't be playing mixed and doubles- all within a week.

Spot on. Interestingly the four best players in the world for the past 6 years, actually get why The Olympics is special. Maybe they simply have a bit more character and see what is more important and hence prioritise better than the others

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by socal1976 on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 8:15 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:I just cannot understand this tennis in the Olympics business, absolute nonsense. I love the game of tennis but it has no place at the Olympic games!! I know if I was a tennis player I would far rather win a grand slam or a world tour finals than an Olympic medal. It just doesn't seem right to be in there in my opinion.

Golf inclusion is also farcical


Why? by any criteria of a sport for inclusion tennis would qualify. It certainly has wider participation and fan base than any other sport. Why should they be banned because their is a pro tour? I mean there is pro track, pro basketball, pro baseball, pro football etc. I just don't understand why the existence of the tour should nullify tennis as an Olympic sport. If that was the case you would be left with rhythmic dancing and synchronized swimming every four years.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 12:19 am

10 out of 30 pulling out is more than I thought for the Olympics. Have you got a source/list of players that have withdrawn/declared that they are playing.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by TRuffin on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 6:20 pm

Henman Bill wrote:10 out of 30 pulling out is more than I thought for the Olympics. Have you got a source/list of players that have withdrawn/declared that they are playing.

This is the list I saw on another site- i assume it's accurate.

With all the players withdrawing and the limitations to how many players can compete per country (reducing some quality players from countries with a deep field)- it's a pretty reduced quality of field



Out from top 10
#7 - Raonic
#8 - Berdych
#9 - Thiem

Out from 11 - 20
#14 - Gasquet (also out of RC with injury)
#16 - Isner
#18 - Kyrgios
#19 - Tomic

Out from 21 - 30
#21 - F Lopez
#22 - Pouille
#29 - Querrey

Out from 31 - 40
#33 - Anderson
#35 - Karlovic
#37 - Dolgopolov
#38 - Chardy

Saw this quote from ISner on why he's not playing

“Tennis is not really a traditional Olympic sport,” Isner said in our interview. “If you ask Roger [Federer], I don’t think he dreamed of winning Olympic gold. He probably dreamed of winning Wimbledon seven times, like he has. …Our biggest events are the Grand Slams and are always going to be the Grand Slams.”

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Calder106 on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 7:13 pm

TRuffin wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:10 out of 30 pulling out is more than I thought for the Olympics. Have you got a source/list of players that have withdrawn/declared that they are playing.

This is the list I saw on another site- i assume it's accurate.

With all the players withdrawing and the limitations to how many players can compete per country (reducing some quality players from countries with a deep field)- it's a pretty reduced quality of field



Out from top 10
#7 - Raonic
#8 - Berdych
#9 - Thiem

Out from 11 - 20
#14 - Gasquet (also out of RC with injury)
#16 - Isner
#18 - Kyrgios
#19 - Tomic

Out from 21 - 30
#21 - F Lopez
#22 - Pouille
#29 - Querrey

Out from 31 - 40
#33 - Anderson
#35 - Karlovic
#37 - Dolgopolov
#38 - Chardy

Saw this quote from ISner on why he's not playing

“Tennis is not really a traditional Olympic sport,” Isner said in our interview. “If you ask Roger [Federer], I don’t think he dreamed of winning Olympic gold. He probably dreamed of winning Wimbledon seven times, like he has. …Our biggest events are the Grand Slams and are always going to be the Grand Slams.”

Think that out of that list Raonic, Berdych,Thiem,Gasquet, Inser, Kyrgios, Tomic, Querrey and Dolgopolov met the rules to qualify and could be considered as withdrawals. As you say Gasquet is injured and not playing Toronto either. Krygios fell out with the AOC and asked not to be considered. Tomic much the same but is playing elsewhere. Dolgo has well documented health issues and can see why he did want to go.

Still think the field is pretty strong though and none of the absentees have ever won a Masters 1000 if I am correct so it is not that greatly weakened. Surely Toronto without Federer, Nadal, and Murray is a weaker field. No issues with players making their choice and can see why some would rather play for cash and points while others who have won more in their careers are going for the Olympics.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 24 Jul 2016, 12:02 am

It's a very weakened field from #7 to #40. I can't recall ever seeing that many withdrawals at a masters. Not sure how many are due to Zika (Berdych was one I saw), and how many would just prefer to play a tour event.

However, with no withdrawals from the top #6, the prestige of the event remains fairly high.

As long as Novak, Roger and Andy do not withdraw, that is the most important. Rafa I don't think would be such a big deal, as he has been injured and missed several events before anyway and likely wouldn't be able to win gold.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Calder106 on Sun 24 Jul 2016, 9:00 am

I would suspect that either tournament (Toronto or Olympics) would rather have an under prepared Rafa on their entry list than some of those who have withdrawn from the Olympics.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Mon 25 Jul 2016, 2:16 pm

Suggestions that Novak has been struggling with his shoulder in practice before Toronto. If so, he's surely not going to push too hard with the Olympics and US Open upcoming.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Mon 25 Jul 2016, 2:22 pm

As for the Olympics field, it's a non-mandatory event with no ranking points or prize money, being held in a Zika infected part of the world. The fact 20 of the top 30 are playing is astonishing. No other tournament, outside the slams, would get anywhere near that buy-in if ranking points and prize money were removed.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by socal1976 on Mon 25 Jul 2016, 3:55 pm

Born Slippy wrote:As for the Olympics field, it's a non-mandatory event with no ranking points or prize money, being held in a Zika infected part of the world. The fact 20 of the top 30 are playing is astonishing. No other tournament, outside the slams, would get anywhere near that buy-in if ranking points and prize money were removed.


Fully agree Bs, you see it just like I do. NO points, Zika virus, Brazil in turmoil, no money and still solely on the prestige of the Olympics two thirds of the best players go to the event. This undercuts everything that the people who think the Olympics don't matter crowd feels.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Mon 25 Jul 2016, 8:12 pm

I see the news that Edmund lost to someone I've never heard of ranked way outside top 100 (Diez). Predictable let down result. Not too worrying in itself.

Although it does seem that this has been going on for at least 20 years our players often can put together a result or two at Wimbledon, the Davis Cup, or a home tournament, but can't seem to put results together on the tour much outside of the UK (with the exception of a few really top players).

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Mon 25 Jul 2016, 10:28 pm

That's an awful result for Kyle. Great chance to get some decent points wasted. He's out of the automatic Masters entry rankings currently so needs to take advantage when he gets in.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Tue 26 Jul 2016, 12:50 am

Kyrgios looks like he's been playing too much Pokemon Go. First set to the 17 year old. Shapovalov looking a class act so far.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Tue 26 Jul 2016, 10:16 am

Great win for Shapovalov. Only just turned 17 and picks up his first top 20 win. Will propel him up about a hundred places. Faces Dimitrov next, who dug out a gritty victory in the end from a set down and 1-4 in the second set tiebreak.

As for Kyrgios, I thought he looked to be maturing this year. However, his efforts yesterday were extremely poor. He looked like he didn't want to be there and was just hitting every serve (first and second) as hard as possible - leading to 18 double faults. He's going nowhere with his current attitude.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Tue 26 Jul 2016, 10:19 am

First time I've seen Shapovalov play. He's a real shotmaker. Has a big lefty forehand and he hit a couple of phenomenal one handed backhands. He's still erratic but he's going to have a lot of fans as he makes his way up the rankings.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Guest82 on Tue 26 Jul 2016, 10:31 am

Kyrgios tweeted that he had spent more time playing Pokémon than tennis in the last few weeks.

Don't know if he's trying to be funny or being serious.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by dummy_half on Tue 26 Jul 2016, 12:27 pm

Born Slippy wrote:That's an awful result for Kyle. Great chance to get some decent points wasted. He's out of the automatic Masters entry rankings currently so needs to take advantage when he gets in.


To be fair, I think it's only the 2nd time he's lost to someone ranked lower than him this season, and I suspect the DC and subsequent travelling has made for less than ideal preparation. Is he in the Cinci draw by right, or will he have to qualify (noting your comment above, I don't know when the entry cut-off is for MS1000 events)?

I do fee Kyle is struggling a bit with the transition between being a big contender and sometime winner on the Challenger Tour and being something of an also-ran in the main ATP events. Has had a few good wins, and has performed creditably when against proper big names, but has fallen short a few times now against players ranked only a bit above him that look potentially beatable (e.g. Mannarino at Wimbledon, Dzumhir at the AO).

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Tue 26 Jul 2016, 5:04 pm

It's only the top 45 or so who get direct entry to Cincy (and Canada). There were a colossal number of dropouts to enable him to get in to Toronto, which is why it's a real shame he couldn't take advantage of a favourable draw.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Thu 28 Jul 2016, 10:11 pm

Dimitrov playing very well against Karlovic. Best I've seen him play for a while. Returning has been excellent. A set up but still on serve in the 2nd.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Sat 30 Jul 2016, 9:16 pm

Very intriguing first set between Stan and Kei. Stan served for it at 5-3 and then had set points at 6-5 and at 6-4 up in the tiebreak. Great fight from Kei to come through.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Sat 30 Jul 2016, 9:33 pm

Hmm, Kei cruising through the second set. Stan with a contender for worse ever miss by a professional player on the way to losing his serve to go down 4-0.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Sat 30 Jul 2016, 9:41 pm

Excellent from Kei. Toughed out the first set and then ran away from Stan. 6-1 second set.

Novak v Monfils should be good later as well!

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 10:35 pm

Novak wins the title without getting out of 3rd gear. Only saw the last couple of games but Nish seemed to be making a lot of errors.

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:38 am

Watched some highlights and I agree Novak, at least in the final, did not seem to need top gear and did not look to be at his very best. There were indeed some errors in the match.

Djokovic now moves onto 30 masters, 1 clear of Rafa.

1. Serbia Novak Djokovic 30
2. Spain Rafael Nadal 28
3. Switzerland Roger Federer 24
4. Czechoslovakia/United States Ivan Lendl 22
5. United States John McEnroe 19
6. United States Jimmy Connors 17
United States Andre Agassi
8. Sweden Björn Borg 15
9. Germany Boris Becker 13
10. United Kingdom Andy Murray 12

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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by lydian on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 10:08 am

The numbers are racking up for sure.

By next Sept. he'll overtake Jimmy Connors weeks #1...which isn't that far away....a year...who will stop him?

Then its not that far towards Federer's 302...

And slams and Masters surely...and YE #1s...WTFs...

He could end up with a very hefty haul indeed.
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Re: Toronto Masters

Post by slashermcguirk on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 12:46 pm

Great to see Djokovic win his 30th masters title, some achievement! I didn't get to see much of it but he does seem to be struggling with his serve a bit which is a concern. However the fact that he was able to win the tournament without losing a set suggests he cannot be playing too badly. Obviously no murray, Federer or nadal there but as they say you can only beat what is in front of you.

I wonder will nishikori will push on now and win a slam. He has the game but still not sure about his physicality. Strangely he has a very good 5 set record but at the same time his body does seem to break down quite frequently.

On now to the Olympics, not really that bothered who wins gold to be honest. Would be nice for Novak to get it but I would take a cincinatti title (only masters novak has not won) over Olympic gold. I think the Olympics and tennis is mickey mouse stuff though I know some on here disagree.

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