England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

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England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 10:05 am

Location:

Old Trafford (Manchester)


Date:

22nd to 26th July 2016


Officials:

Match Umpires: Rod Tucker (Aus), Kumar Dharmasena (SL)
3rd Umpire: Joel Wilson (WI)
Referee: Richie Richardson (WI)



Media Coverage

TV Live: Sky Sports 2 from 10am daily.
TV Highlights: 1 hour shou Channel 5 20:00 daily. 2 hour show Sky Sports various times and channels
Radio: 5L Sports Extra and BBC Website links



Weather Forecast




Teams:

England:
Alastair Cook (capt), Alex Hales, Joe Root, James Vince, Gary Ballance, Ben Stokes, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Moeen Ali, Chris Woakes, Stuart Broad, James Anderson


Pakistan:
Mohammad Hafeez, Shan Masood, Azhar Ali, Younus Khan, Misbah-ul-Haq (capt), Asad Shafiq, Sarfraz Ahmed (wk), Wahab Riaz, Mohammad Amir, Rahat Ali, Yasir Shah.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 10:55 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Finn and Ball removed)

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by sirfredperry on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 11:07 am

Stokes' return will strengthen a batting line-up as weak as I can recall in recent years. After the ghastly selections and underperformances of the 80s and 90s, we have been perhaps spoiled in recent years by the sheer number of England players who came into the side and clicked straightaway (Tresco, Strauss, Vaughan, Trott, Cook, Pietersen to name a few).
In contrast, there is now no settled opener for Cook, although no doubt Hales will be persevered with. The selectors can't seem to make their minds up about Ballance, Vince looks good and then gets out, and Bairstow should NOT be keeping (although with Buttler injured there seems little alternative).
As for this 2nd Test, England can win, especially if they can bat first.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 12:05 pm

Sir Fred - your post rather reflects my thoughts that a Test team comprising those who can bat decently at 8, 9 and perhaps even 10 is not necessarily a strong batting side. It's clearly a useful bonus if they can do so. However, they should not be seen as rectifying weaknesses in the top 6 which should be the first and main measure of batting strength.

On the keeper alternative, I don't know if you go to any county games in London but, if you do, I would suggest that Foakes is worth keeping an eye on.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by KP_fan on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 1:01 pm

sirfredperry wrote:
  As for this 2nd Test, England can win, especially ONLY if they can bat first.
Smile
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 1:04 pm

Finn and Ball dropped from the squad so Anderson and Stokes will play

Seems like it'll be a decision between Rashid/Ali for the final spot
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 1:11 pm

England to come roaring back after losing the First Test. They (nearly) always react well.

Innings victory, Anderson with 10+.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by sirfredperry on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 1:18 pm

Duty281 wrote:England to come roaring back after losing the First Test. They (nearly) always react well.

Innings victory, Anderson with 10+.

Yes, it's remarkable how confident we often are following a bad defeat. It's because England have bounced back so often in recent series. Still think we could have won at Lord's if Root had not played such a stupid shot when we were 118 for one in the first innings.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 1:39 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Finn and Ball dropped from the squad so Anderson and Stokes will play

Seems like it'll be a decision between Rashid/Ali for the final spot

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/21/jake-ball-steven-finn-england-squad-second-test-pakistan-cricket


Thoughthey seem to suggest that if Rashid plays it will be with Ali not instead of. If so that would mean Vince or Ballance dropping out I guess.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 1:53 pm

Interesting thanks Tiger - so the options appear to be

Cook, Hales, Root, Vince, Ballance, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson

Or

Cook, Hales, Root, Ballance, Bairstow, Stokes, Ali, Woakes, Rashid, Broad, Anderson

(I presume they would drop Vince not Ballance)

I must admit I think the XI with Rashid in looks stronger to me
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 2:24 pm

There has been a lot of talk in the press surmising that Bayliss was unhappy with certain selectorial decisions foisted on him - including Ballance's recall. It will be interesting to see who drops out if they do play two spinners.

The batting order will be interesting too - will they really move Bairstow up to 5? I guess we shall see soon enough, but hoping the forecast for tomorrow I pasted up top is not accurate.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by msp83 on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 5:36 pm

Hope to see them going for Rashid, but can't see that happening. Old habits die slow!!
I have never been a fan of Moeen Ali, but he has had the happy nack of picking up some wickets. But this year he has been pretty poor with the ball and has only one innings of note with the bat. Even if he plays as he is very likely to be, then he should come up with a career saving performance pretty soon.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by KP_fan on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 6:44 pm

ali, rashid, ansari.....hmm....seems British paksitanis fancy spin as a trade Shocked
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by GSC on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 10:29 am

Sounds like no Rashid, Stokes and Anderson for Finn and Ball is my guess
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by GSC on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 10:34 am

that is confirmed, Cook wins the toss and has a bat
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by KP_fan on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 10:39 am

They have their star bowler back, bat deeper....and won the toss , puts Eng 70-30 ahead at the start Shocked

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by sirfredperry on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 10:41 am

GSC wrote:that is confirmed, Cook wins the toss and has a bat

Batting first is good news for England. I'm expecting a much better batting performance in this Test. Didn't really think they would play Rashid. Pretty dreadful that there are so few to choose from when it comes to slow bowlers.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by GSC on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 10:41 am

Ball probably a tad unlucky, didn't bowl badly at Lords without reward. Finn had to go, liability when he's in this form.
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by KP_fan on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 11:11 am

Amer has to get one to angle into cooks pads
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 11:31 am

Phwoar what a ripper from Amir
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by JDizzle on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 11:35 am

Hales set up and done like an absolute kipper. Amir - too good for him.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 12:09 pm

Fine bit of swing bowling from Amir to get Hales. Think he should have been playing forward though to counter that. Not suggesting it is easy to keep those out , but the footwork was indecisive. Hales doesn't look confident at present - slightly surprised after his good series against Sri Lanka.
Jury still out.

Apart from that a good session for England , against some handy bowling with the new ball.

Team as expected. They often discuss two spinners , but very rarely indulge in them.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 12:21 pm

GSC wrote:Ball probably a tad unlucky, didn't bowl badly at Lords without reward. Finn had to go, liability when he's in this form.

Agree Ball bowled better than his figures at Lord's. was always likely to miss out anyway , with Anderson/Stokes returning. But I think he showed enough to maintain his place in the "reserve" list. (which is looking quite robust at present , with Wood , Finn , Plunkett , and now Ball. Good to have with the amount of cricket played now)
Finn will probably sort things out and be back . Odd the way he goes "off" from time to time. I fear he will never become the consistently good bowler we hoped for , though he will have his high points - just have to make sure to pick him on those good days !
Will be interesting to see how many quicks they take to India...they won't find too many tracks to their liking there , I think Smile

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 12:46 pm

alfie wrote:
GSC wrote:Ball probably a tad unlucky, didn't bowl badly at Lords without reward. Finn had to go, liability when he's in this form.

Agree Ball bowled better than his figures at Lord's.  was always likely to miss out anyway , with Anderson/Stokes returning.  But I think he showed enough to maintain his place in the "reserve" list.  (which is looking quite robust at present , with Wood , Finn  , Plunkett , and now Ball. Good to have with the amount of cricket played now)
Finn will probably sort things out and be back . Odd the way he goes "off" from time to time. I fear he will never become the consistently good bowler we hoped for , though he will have his high points - just have to make sure to pick him on those good days !
Will be interesting to see how many quicks they take to India...they won't find too many tracks to their liking there , I think Smile

Yes, encouragingly quite a few pushing to be in contention. Upon behalf of the Surrey mafia, I'll flag that Tom Curran is coming up on the outside whilst Meaker is back amongst the wickets and bowling faster than at any time in the last two years. The one I'm yet to be convinced by is Footitt who was a leading England ''reserve'' not very long ago.

Anyway, just seen Hales' dismissal. Cracker of a delivery.

Important now that Cook and Root see us through to lunch, Assuming they do, it'll be our morning in my book.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dummy_half on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 12:52 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:
GSC wrote:Ball probably a tad unlucky, didn't bowl badly at Lords without reward. Finn had to go, liability when he's in this form.

Agree Ball bowled better than his figures at Lord's.  was always likely to miss out anyway , with Anderson/Stokes returning.  But I think he showed enough to maintain his place in the "reserve" list.  (which is looking quite robust at present , with Wood , Finn  , Plunkett , and now Ball. Good to have with the amount of cricket played now)
Finn will probably sort things out and be back . Odd the way he goes "off" from time to time. I fear he will never become the consistently good bowler we hoped for , though he will have his high points - just have to make sure to pick him on those good days !
Will be interesting to see how many quicks they take to India...they won't find too many tracks to their liking there , I think Smile

Yes, encouragingly quite a few pushing to be in contention. Upon behalf of the Surrey mafia, I'll flag that Tom Curran is coming up on the outside whilst Meaker is back amongst the wickets and bowling faster than at any time in the last two years. The one I'm yet to be convinced by is Footitt who was a leading England ''reserve'' not very long ago.

Anyway, just seen Hales' dismissal. Cracker of a delivery.

Important now that Cook and Root see us through to lunch, Assuming they do, it'll be our morning in my book.

Didn't play it very well, in that the footwork was poor and there was a big gap between bat and pad. However, it was such a good ball that the only difference was he was out bowled rather than LBW...

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 12:55 pm

Dummy - yes, Hales was all at sea although he probably needed to face the ball in slow motion to get his footwork right. Smile

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by KP_fan on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 12:57 pm

Ball's not doing much in the air or off the pitch ...and Eng is on top.
Another fact...it's Eng's two best batsman who are also among world's topmost test batsman are out there......making it look easy.
Pak need to break throuhg this stand......and then the game may be more open for them
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 12:57 pm

Should get 28 overs in the first session - MfC won't be grumbling too much at that. Wink

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 1:05 pm

Good session for England clap

Pakistan quicks bowled quite well ; perhaps ended up a little short at times. Yasir not quite in Lord's form yet ; a few loose deliveries - and Root cashed in.
Cook was actually out scoring his partner earlier on ; but as Root settled in he started playing some very sweetly time cover punches and rather took over the run making. Or perhaps he just got more loose balls...

Good toss to win ?

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 1:09 pm

Hi guildford

Yes , I note your man Curran senior has been putting in some useful performances - seems he can bat as well as bowl so he will fit the new template for England bowlers ...

Bit of a queue at the moment ; but I guess time is on his side. And the young brother ? Later , perhaps ?

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 1:51 pm

Alfie - young Sam is actually the better bat and always keen to keep the scoreboard moving. Unlike brother Tom, he's a left armer. Since making his Surrey debut last year has taken a few batsmen by surprise with lovely deliveries almost whipped in and keeping low. However, this season he's found Division One batsmen more resilient and capable of punishing a poor ball. I feel he tries the short ball a bit too much, not having his brother's pace for it to come off effectively. Definitely a lot of potential there and highly viewed by the Oval's senior players; recognising he only left school in the last month, probably not surprising he still needs imo to get more streetwise amongst seasoned professionals.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 2:01 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Alfie - young Sam is actually the better bat and always keen to keep the scoreboard moving. Unlike brother Tom, he's a left armer. Since making his Surrey debut last year has taken a few batsmen by surprise with lovely deliveries almost whipped in and keeping low. However, this season he's found Division One batsmen more resilient and capable of punishing a poor ball. I feel he tries the short ball a bit too much, not having his brother's pace for it to come off effectively. Definitely a lot of potential there and highly viewed by the Oval's senior players; recognising he only left school in the last month, probably not surprising he still needs imo to get more streetwise amongst seasoned professionals.

He's only 17, so a lot of physical growth and development to happen for him as well. I think he'll become a better bat than bowler over time
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by msp83 on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 2:09 pm

Looks like the makings of a pretty big first innings here. Nothing much from the pitch, and England's 2 best batsmen are absolutely in and looking set for far more. Pakistan needs a wicket, and need it real soon. Otherwise, their day is going to be longer and harder.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by GSC on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 2:41 pm

Pakistan look a bit flat. Have to keep the energy high on a pitch like this.
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by msp83 on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 2:53 pm

England almost always performs well after a loss, and here they are repeating the pattern yet again.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by msp83 on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 3:04 pm

Things have reached that stage for Pakistan wherein either Amir or Wahab will have to bowl one of those spells that takes the pitch out of the equation. Else, England are pretty much on course for 450.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by GSC on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 3:09 pm

Aye, conditions are great and these are two class players, but not sure Pakistan have bowled particularly well bar Amir first up.
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 3:16 pm

What's happened to Cook so far in this series, he's had two scores of over 80 at a strike rate of over 60, unheard of from him.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by GSC on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 3:26 pm

Century for Cook as he leads the fightback after Lords. Shows some in the dressing room the value of just not giving your wicket away with silly shots.
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 3:28 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Alfie - young Sam is actually the better bat and always keen to keep the scoreboard moving. Unlike brother Tom, he's a left armer. Since making his Surrey debut last year has taken a few batsmen by surprise with lovely deliveries almost whipped in and keeping low. However, this season he's found Division One batsmen more resilient and capable of punishing a poor ball. I feel he tries the short ball a bit too much, not having his brother's pace for it to come off effectively. Definitely a lot of potential there and highly viewed by the Oval's senior players; recognising he only left school in the last month, probably not surprising he still needs imo to get more streetwise amongst seasoned professionals.

He's only 17, so a lot of physical growth and development to happen for him as well. I think he'll become a better bat than bowler over time

One of the reasons for my uncertainty as to how far Sam Curran will advance is that we don't know how much he will grow and develop together with how much and in what way it will impact him. He's actually 18 now so there might not be that much more growth and development. There again, he still looks very young so could still considerably change in build over the next couple of years.

Meanwhile, looking very good for England. 190/1 going at nicely above 3 and a half an over with no silly risks (that I've seen anyway) being taken. Cook with an assured century and Root seeming like he'll also get there today on 73. IF (big 'if') Pakistan can get these two soon, the scoreboard won't be so intimidating but that doesn't appear likely atm.


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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by JDizzle on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 3:30 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:What's happened to Cook so far in this series, he's had two scores of over 80 at a strike rate of over 60, unheard of from him.

Not been able to watch this afternoon, but don't suppose they have mentioned what Cook's fastest Test ton is anyone? Guessing 160 balls won't be far off!

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 3:38 pm

Cook has really been playing superbly today. Unusually fluent in front of the wicket - several very nice drives , straight and cover. And typically efficient on anything short.
Was tested by Yasir with his leg stump line there for a while ; but he found a way through.
And he and Root are batting England into a very handy position. Pakistan having to resort to the very part time bowling of Azhar...

They may pay for the lack of a fifth bowler here.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 3:39 pm

Cook and Root scoring all the runs - good idea imo
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by GSC on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 3:44 pm

Amir keeps Pakistan in it, removes Cook just before tea
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 3:46 pm

And a wicket on the stroke of tea !

Out of the blue...Cook bowled by Amir.

But that ball seemed to scoot through very low ! About the first ball to misbehave all day - as you'd expect on day one.
Will give Pakistan a lift.

Vince to start after tea in what ought to be as good a chance as he'll get to make a score for himself. Pressure of a different sort...

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by GSC on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 3:47 pm

Pressure now on England's middle order that has a tendency to crumble playing brainless shots. Something in this for Pakistan if they can bowl well after tea.
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 3:51 pm

Pakistan will enjoy their tea a lot more now. Not sure that Vince will.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 4:12 pm

Great stand by Cook and Root...best ever 2nd wicket partnership by England @ OT apparently clap

Amir showing that England still need to treat the Pakistan bowling with some respect though.

C'mon Vincey Wincey Spider...time to show you can bat at Test level.

Make a nice 50 or so...not too much to ask, is it?


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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 4:13 pm

Vince dropped on 6 off Amir
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 4:20 pm

Amir bowling a beautiful spell here - shame his fielders can't back him up
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 4:21 pm

Vince really struggling at this level...was lucky then , but hard to see him lasting. I suspect he will need to go away and work on his game .
In fairness , Amir is bowling a very tasty spell at the moment.

I watched that Cook dismissal again : ball really did scuttle through very low. England won't mind that with Pakistan batting last.

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