England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

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England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 21 Jul 2016, 10:05 am

First topic message reminder :

Location:

Old Trafford (Manchester)


Date:

22nd to 26th July 2016


Officials:

Match Umpires: Rod Tucker (Aus), Kumar Dharmasena (SL)
3rd Umpire: Joel Wilson (WI)
Referee: Richie Richardson (WI)



Media Coverage

TV Live: Sky Sports 2 from 10am daily.
TV Highlights: 1 hour shou Channel 5 20:00 daily. 2 hour show Sky Sports various times and channels
Radio: 5L Sports Extra and BBC Website links



Weather Forecast




Teams:

England:
Alastair Cook (capt), Alex Hales, Joe Root, James Vince, Gary Ballance, Ben Stokes, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Moeen Ali, Chris Woakes, Stuart Broad, James Anderson


Pakistan:
Mohammad Hafeez, Shan Masood, Azhar Ali, Younus Khan, Misbah-ul-Haq (capt), Asad Shafiq, Sarfraz Ahmed (wk), Wahab Riaz, Mohammad Amir, Rahat Ali, Yasir Shah.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 10:55 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Finn and Ball removed)

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 4:24 pm

Of course Vince then unfurls two lovely shots for boundaries Smile

He does look good when he plays those cover drives : it's his shot selection and length judgement that lets him down .

Entertaining cricket today - hope the weather holds as I see its getting darker...

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 4:35 pm

Root looking very cagey in the Nervous Nineties now.
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 4:37 pm

Vince just isn't good enough
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 4:42 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Vince just isn't good enough

To be honest , I have thought that from the start. I think that's the last we will see of him at this level. (Barring a hundred in the second innings - rather unlikely !)

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 4:43 pm

Oh lordy that was poor...pretty much a carbon copy of his dismissal at Lords. Rolling Eyes

He'll be lucky to see the end of the series at this rate.

Lets hope Ballance is in better shape.


-----------------------
EDIT: nice work Rooty! Congrats on 10th Test ton. clap
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 4:46 pm

Well done Joe Root - tenth hundred in Tests clap

Bit more restrained than normal : perhaps compensating after throwing away a few good starts recently . He wanted that century.

Funny thought : at times today it almost looked as if Cook and Root had swapped batting personalities. Worked for both of them thumbsup

Now to see if Ballance can contribute ...

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 4:58 pm

Yasir becomes the third centurion of the innings...

Perhaps he hasn't bowled as well as at Lord's . But England have unquestionably played him better.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by VTR on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 5:34 pm

Cook and Root doing what we know they can. Really need some other higher order players to step up when we play someone decent. Obviously the lower middle order is strong

As a non cricketing aside, this site is now so spammy on mobiles its almost impossible to use

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 6:01 pm

Just seen the score, good good. (Though inwardly I'm thinking, why didn't Cook and Root score this much in the second innings in the last Test?!)

Vince may be running out of lives.

No mercy, England. 450 minimum.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 6:42 pm

I've seen it all now; Woakes being used as a nightwatchmen for a player he has a higher first class average than.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 6:48 pm

A good day for England but not yet decisively so. Pakistan can still harbour hopes of getting us all out for under 400 which would certainly keep them in the game. Very difficult for them and I don't think it likely but not impossible.

At least, KP_f gets to see Woakes batting at 6 as he wanted last time. Smile

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by KP_fan on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 7:25 pm

good news for Eng.....they are ahead in the game ...but if root goes early a 400ish collapse is still possible

bad news....it took their top two players to score really big to get into a position of some strength and these two aren't gonna score each time.

for eng to feel good someone else needs to score...
it's a blessing in disguise.....that Woakes has gotten a promotion....he has looked technically most apt after Root and cook

it would be heartening for Eng if Stokes and / or Bairstow can show ability to counter Pakistani bowling tomm

unfortunately not able to watch highlights....rather fixed on Ind-WI game ongoing
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by GSC on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 7:37 pm

Way England play is pretty similar to ODIs, hope Bairstow, Stokes, Balance, Vince or Ali come off on the day. Not one I'm a great fan of, but it is what it is.
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dummy_half on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 8:12 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I've seen it all now; Woakes being used as a nightwatchmen for a player he has a higher first class average than.

I suspect that when asking for volunteers, Woakes was much more keen than Broad or Jimmy. He'll be fancying a decent score, especially batting with Root who has a bit of history of guiding lower order players to career bests.

Anyway, clearly England's day, but they aren't out of sight yet, especially given Root has a tendency to get out at the start of the 2nd day of his innings. He should though be thinking 'same again', just batting sensibly for as long as he can, as the other end is likely to score quickly.

Easy goals for tomorrow - Pakistan to take wickets regularly through the morning and restrict England to 400-450. England just to bat big - Root to convert the 100 into a double or more and the rest to chip in to a 550+ score by tea (and maybe some quick runs thereafter).

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 8:22 pm

If Woakes/Root an see us through the first hour, with Stokes, Bairstow and Ali to come and only four bowlers - things could get out of hand very quickly for Pakistan
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 9:14 pm

Broad doesn't strike me as a nightwatchman TBH. He's not really technically sound enough and his issues against the bouncer-yorker ploy are also a problem for that role. Anderson used to be England's nightwatchman of course, but clearly doesn't fancy the role anymore, and having Woakes bat at 10 - with Moeen at 9 and Broad at 11 - feels a bit of a waste in that scenario. Woakes the logical choice for me.

Good day for England, though Pakistan will take heart from picking up 3/100 or so in the last session + one ball. Cook and Root both played very nicely, interestingly I felt Root played within himself a little, he basically left the cover drive in the locker (at least until he was well on his way) and only drove down the ground when the ball was straighter, leaving the wider ones or punching off the back foot when it was short enough. Gameplan worked. Vince is starting to annoy me, looks a top player but every time gets out to a loose shot when well set. If he can find the right balance I reckon he could be a fine player, so worth persevering with for now IMO.

Was disappointed with Pakistan TBH, Yasir didn't bowl well (though England played him better), and the seamers didn't put enough balls in the right areas. Think Misbah's captaincy can be a bit too passive at times, and this afternoon it was certainly that. Root and Cook will happily knock the singles around if you let them...

Lastly I see that guildford flagged up the overrate pre-lunch as decent (they only got 27 overs in in the end, though that was due to some timewasting from England), but when your spinners bowl 33 overs in the day you shouldn't really be struggling (and failing) to bowl the 90 overs in the day. Still I think I've given up on banging that particular drum...

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dummy_half on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 1:02 am

Having just watched the highlights, I thought Cook played really well, particularly push-driving straight as well as his usual scoring areas. Was unlucky to get one of very few balls that mis-behaved. Root so far looks almost untroubled, especially now in 3 figures after his failures to convert a few recently.

Hales beaten by a bowler who was too good for him (at least early on with the ball swinging).

Vince and Balance were in a way similar dismissals, in misjudging deliveries that they were playing favoured run-scoring shots off once played in but not having made a score. Vince again looked fluent for a little cameo but can't resist the wide half volley, while Balance was more scratchy to start but was starting to open up when he tried to run / cut one that was too close and got a bit high.

Amir looked the only Pakistan bowler that could really pose a threat on the (day 1) surface. Shah not as effective with the ball bouncing up rather than skidding through

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 5:36 am

I don't see Woakes as a night watchman in the normal sense.

Of the four all rounder types , he is probably the best suited , technically and temperamentally , to the role that was required last night : face a few overs at the end of the day , and a renewed new ball assault in the morning ; with the intention of building a steady innings ...as opposed to stepping on the accelerator sometime on the second day - a role for which the other three are better qualified.
In short : switching a potentially very flexible order around to suit the situation made good sense. And will in the future , should the team structure remain similar.

I know some batsmen get uncomfortable if their position in the order is not solidly fixed (although few object when a traditional night watchman is inserted) ; but I have long held the view that cricket teams ought to be flexible enough to move things around to suit the state of the game ( as many do in the limited over game)
So well done Bayliss/Cook whoever thought of this one. thumbsup

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 8:23 am

alfie wrote:I know some batsmen get uncomfortable if their position in the order is not solidly fixed (although few object when a traditional night watchman is inserted) ; but I have long held the view that cricket teams ought to be flexible enough to move things around to suit the state of the game ( as many do in the limited over game)
So well done Bayliss/Cook whoever thought of this one. thumbsup

I know this was in reference to Woakes, but I thought they could have done something similar at the second wicket down and replaced Cook with another lefty, but as you say batters seem to like the certainty of where they will bat.

This could be a real opportunity for Woakes. Up until this season I have always felt that batting was actually his stronger suit - but his bowling has improved beyond recognition. The chance to bat at No6 with genuine batters could provide him with the chance of a significant score. I hope he gets it, even if it does require me to eat yet another slice of humble pie.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 10:59 am

Morning / Evening all - interesting comments about Woakes as nightwatchman or middle order batsman. Although I'm pretty (some would say extremely) old school, I've never been much fond of the nightwatchman role. I feel the captain should back his batsman and the batsman should back up his team. Too often, the nightwatchman goes early the next morning (if not the same evening) to give the bowling side a lift. Following on from an MfC comment, it can also hasten a recognised batsman running out of partners.

That said, I follow and like Alfie's comment that Woakes wasn't really a nightwatchman but a late middle order batsman going in earlier due to match circumstances and illustrating good use of flexibility in the order. Since being tipped off about 3 or 4 years ago by friends and family in the Midlands, I've always had hopes for Woakes' batting (more at that time than for his bowling) and looked out for it. Probably fair to say, it hasn't quite developed as much as some around Warks expected but the guy can still definitely bat. Hope we see it this morning.

England, I guess, looking for 500 whilst Pakistan would be delighted to keep us under 400.

Btw, MfC, I only meant that 28 (which, as you say, was actually 27) overs in the first session was reasonable by usual current Test standards. Certainly not something to wildly celebrate!

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 12:36 pm

Serene progress by England this morning. Root will be thinking about his 200 and Woakes makes his second Test 50.

Seeing England reach 400-4 must be pretty demoralising for Pakistan.

Would have thought Cook will want to declare around the 550-600 mark...assuming no calamitous collapse.
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 12:43 pm

England going along nicely this morning ; promotion of Woakes has paid off , Root after a subdued start has begun to move through the gears ; should be looking at 550-600 and a bowl at Pakistan this evening with the intention of batting only once .
Some considerable spin from Yasir this morning : think batting later in this match will not be easy.  Key to the match will be whether England can get through Pakistan top seven in their first innings.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 12:51 pm

And Yasir gets Woakes ...mistimed , back to the bowler...

Relief for Pakistan and their key bowler ; but Woakes has done his job with a very nice 55 clap

Has set it up for the aggressive players to come. Hope Stokes can get going ; though he might find it tricky against Yasir for a start.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 12:55 pm

If Stokes/Bairstow/Ali really get going we should be aiming for 650+ here
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 12:58 pm

Excellent stuff from Root and Woakes this morning.

Onwards with Stokes and Root brilliantly poised.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 1:01 pm

28 overs this morning...113/1

As ordered thumbsup

Might be some fireworks in the afternoon...

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 1:02 pm

Good job by Woakes - kept the scoreboard going and kept Root company. Think he might be asking the coaches if he can move up a couple of places. Didn't seem out of place batting at 6.

As Olly said, if Stokes and Bairstow can have good innings, England should hit 600 quite easily.

Just wonder how much longer Root can keep going...he must be starting to feel the hours at the crease now.
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 1:03 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:If Stokes/Bairstow/Ali really get going we should be aiming for 650+ here

Think they'd declare south of that. But yeah , if a couple of them are on song runs might come very quickly.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 1:06 pm

alfie wrote:England going along nicely this morning ; promotion of Woakes has paid off , Root after a subdued start has begun to move through the gears ; should be looking at 550-600 and a bowl at Pakistan this evening with the intention of batting only once .
Some considerable spin from Yasir this morning : think batting later in this match will not be easy.  Key to the match will be whether England can get through Pakistan top seven in their first innings.

5 down so I'm not sure if they'll get as high as 550. If they can get to 500 though then I think they have set a good total.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 1:37 pm

If we do declare, I would expect that to be as much (or even more) influenced by time factors as runs on the board. Keep Pakistan out in the field throughout all of the middle session to wear them down further and then again for some of the final session to deny their openers having the tea break and 20 minutes to compose and prepare themselves. We certainly have some biffers to get the score above 600 in that time.

That said, a couple of quick wickets after lunch and the picture would look very different.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 1:37 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:
alfie wrote:England going along nicely this morning ; promotion of Woakes has paid off , Root after a subdued start has begun to move through the gears ; should be looking at 550-600 and a bowl at Pakistan this evening with the intention of batting only once .
Some considerable spin from Yasir this morning : think batting later in this match will not be easy.  Key to the match will be whether England can get through Pakistan top seven in their first innings.

5 down so I'm not sure if they'll get as high as 550.  If they can get to 500 though then I think they have set a good total.


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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 2:26 pm

Very handy 50 partnership between Root and Stokes. I would expect them to up the pace if/when Root goes past 200.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 2:30 pm

Rooooot! Yahoo Yahoo clap clap

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by compelling and rich on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 2:39 pm

anyone see anything in that stokes dismissal then? i couldn't, certainly not enough to overturn the on field decision

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 2:40 pm

Cannot believe that 3rd umpire decision to give Stokes out ! Don't think he touched it at all. The hot spot mark was there before the ball arrived : the umpire even thought that himself at first ! How on earth did he talk himself into that ?
Even if there was a touch (which I strongly doubt) there was certainly not conclusive evidence to overturn the not out on field.

A truly shocking decision. The sort of call which gives drs a bad name . steam

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 2:41 pm

Herculean innings from Root - absolutely fantastic! clap Bubbly

Shame - Stokes goes with just a modest score, but helps England towards the 500 mark. Looks to be unlucky with the umpiring.

Pakistan will still have a formidable total to overcome, with Bairstow and Ali still to come.


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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by msp83 on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 2:41 pm

Double ton up for Root, But Wahab gets Stokes. 600+ very much within England's reach even now. as Bairstow, Ali and even Broad for that matter are there. Think England should bat on and go pass 650 if possible.
Other than Younis and Misbah, the Pakistan batting unit lacks class. Shafiq and Sarfraz do belong to this level, and Azhar Ali is capable. But can they score the big tons that can salvage these situations? That is a big question.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 2:43 pm

Anyway , congrats to Root on the double ton clap

From his reaction , I reckon he really wanted that 200. Has been fairly circumspect ; might cut loose a bit now...

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 2:47 pm

Time to bin DRS, it's improved bugger all.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by msp83 on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 2:52 pm

Pakistan fielders not really supporting Yasir during his hour of crisis. Bairstow dropped by the wicketkeeper.......

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 2:55 pm

Well done Root.

And yes indeed Wolfie. As ever.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 3:16 pm

Root still dealing mainly in singles ...leaving the aggression to Bairstow - the net result is quite satisfactory as that is 200 for today off just fifty overs...OK , actually just 199 , but still...

Clearly looking to bat an hour after tea ...which , if they can , should be over six hundred. And then have a go with the ball against tired batsmen.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 3:18 pm

Seeing lots of tweets from Pakistan fans on Twitter complaining it's a flat dead pitch. I guess we'll know for sure after both have batted.

Someone also called root boring and that's just stupid.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by compelling and rich on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 3:22 pm

hypocrisy of subcontinent teams complaining about dead pitches

this pakistan battling line up isnt all that, 600 then declare. we'll do it by a innings

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 3:25 pm

Apparently it is due to rain over the next two days, they're already praising allah for it lol.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by msp83 on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 3:25 pm

England in absolute control. Pitch offering not a lot to the Pak bowlers. Will be interesting to see how James Anderson would go about on this track. Will he manage to get some significant swing on this track?

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by compelling and rich on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 3:29 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:Apparently it is due to rain over the next two days, they're already praising allah for it lol.

weather forecast for here isnt great in the afternoon on sunday, but its been like that for a while and the rain has kept away for the most part. should have enough time to wrap this up

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by msp83 on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 3:30 pm

With Hafeez not permited to bowl, Pakistan really don't have any semi decent parttime options with the ball. Azhar Ali has had a bowl, but that just shows the issue that Pakistan have.......

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 3:33 pm

Don't think the England bowlers will find a lot from this pitch either - but scoreboard pressure will be a help...

Reckon the pitch will get tricky later on though ; the odd ball has jumped or kept low (like the one that bowled Cook) already so I'd expect a bit of up and down over the last couple of days ; and there is spin.
Pakistan need to bat long in their first innings to have a decent chance of saving the game. They do have players who can do that ; so we shall see by and by...

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 3:36 pm

compelling and rich wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:Apparently it is due to rain over the next two days, they're already praising allah for it lol.

weather forecast for here isnt great in the afternoon on sunday, but its been like that for a while and the rain has kept away for the most part. should have enough time to wrap this up
Good stuff. Let's hope it holds off enough to get a result.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

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