Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

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Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Sin é on Sat 23 Jul 2016, 11:21 am

First topic message reminder :

What it says in the title - a place to put all bits of news not worth starting a thread for the Four Proud Provinces of Ireland such as new signings, interviews that maybe of interest to others etc.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Sin é on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 11:53 am

ROG, Felix Jones & Girvan Dempsey going on Tour of US/Japan (seemingly, not all at the same time).

It looks like Felix Jones is really been fastracked.
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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 11:55 am

Sin é wrote:ROG, Felix Jones & Girvan Dempsey going on Tour of US/Japan (seemingly, not all at the same time).

It looks like Felix Jones is really been fastracked.

?

Explain. As formal coaches? Or as informal observers?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by St John The Enforcer on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 12:00 pm


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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by St John The Enforcer on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 12:00 pm

Dom Ryan maybe

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 12:33 pm

It was interesting to hear the often debated Provincial angle from an outsider perspective.  

Lancaster was interviewed before the weekend's European games on I think it was BBC's 5 Live.  He just said bluntly that 'nobody wants to leave' Leinster.  He said he met with players individually when he came first and he'd ask them about their careers and asked them would they not feel like moving to England or France.  A big 'no' from everyone.  He'd obviously accepted that was how it goes by the time he'd been interviewed but he wasn't asked specifically about it yet put the observation in there anyway when asked about his own opinions of his own time with Leinster.

So two things - Leinster players are a stubborn?/loyal? bunch of buckaroos.  Lancaster was being a sly auld divil with his line of questioning - agenty questions? - in perhaps trying to coax some of the boys over to English sides? Whistle

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by marty2086 on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 12:49 pm

St John The Enforcer wrote:Looks like no Jack Conan to Ulster then.....

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/leinster-rugby-confirm-13-contract-renewals/?FixGuid=16OL7774

We didn't want him anyway Whistle

Think Dougall has been rumoured to be returning to Ulster next season

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 12:59 pm

Pretty delighted to see Conan has decided to stay with Leinster. He is the obvious successor to Heaslip and the only thing preventing him from being well known on the world stage is his injury record. There isn't one weakness in his game as far as I can see and he carries the ball more effectively than CJ Stander.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 1:04 pm

I have high hopes for Jack O'Donoghue as well, but he will be stuck behind CJ Stander and he seems to lack the decision making/confidence to really make a big impact in games. Otherwise, he has all the attributes.

We are back to the old days of our back row options, except now we have amazing options at 7 too.

6) O'Mahony, Ruddock, O'Callaghan, O'Brien MkII...
7) O'Brien, van der Flier, Leavy, Oliver...
8) Heaslip, Stander, Conan, O'Donoghue...

A lot of the above can swap positions (and of course we can bring Henderson in at 6) and there will be plenty more young options coming through as well. Heaslip is by far the oldest and the only player in that list over 30. The future is bright.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Sin é on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 1:10 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:ROG, Felix Jones & Girvan Dempsey going on Tour of US/Japan (seemingly, not all at the same time).

It looks like Felix Jones is really been fastracked.

?

Explain.  As formal coaches?  Or as informal observers?

Skills coaching.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/ronan-ogara-set-to-join-ireland-coaching-staff-for-summer-tour-to-usa-and-japan-35596204.html
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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 1:21 pm

Sin é wrote:ROG, Felix Jones & Girvan Dempsey going on Tour of US/Japan (seemingly, not all at the same time).

It looks like Felix Jones is really been fastracked.

Great to see. Schmidt referred to his Jones' leadership qualities on numerous occasions. Anyone who has come through the injury horror that he has is bound to be quite a resilient character.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 1:22 pm

Shouldn't the coach know a little something about it himself before passing on that knowledge to others?

Or is ROG there specifically to coach the kicking game?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 1:28 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Shouldn't the coach know a little something about it himself before passing on that knowledge to others?

Or is ROG there specifically to coach the kicking game?

It looks more like succession planning to me. A bit like how uncapped players are often included in training squads as observers. These guys are here to get a flavour of how the big boys do the coaching.


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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 1:29 pm

Good to see them all involved. Are there contractual issues though in that kinda set up? The Provincial guys are okay - working for the same company (IRFU) and all that...but O'Gara? He's contractually tied to a French professional and private club - contracts allow for assisting other rugby union outfits off season?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 1:32 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Shouldn't the coach know a little something about it himself before passing on that knowledge to others?

Or is ROG there specifically to coach the kicking game?

I'd assume its the RFU telling Schmidt to give the guys time with the team - in that development of indigenous coaches approach. I'm not suggesting Joe will not want them around but I'd say it's part of the overall IRFU plotting and planning. O'Gara and the others have obviously inferred that they are all interested in future engagement with Ireland International at some point.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 1:33 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Shouldn't the coach know a little something about it himself before passing on that knowledge to others?

Or is ROG there specifically to coach the kicking game?

I'd assume its the RFU telling Schmidt to give the guys time with the team - in that development of indigenous coaches approach.  I'm not suggesting Joe will not want them around but I'd say it's part of the overall IRFU plotting and planning.  O'Gara and the others have obviously inferred that they are all interested in future engagement with Ireland International at some point.

oops Guns already on to it. Apologies for repeat.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by marty2086 on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 1:49 pm

SecretFly wrote:Good to see them all involved.  Are there contractual issues though in that kinda set up?  The Provincial guys are okay - working for the same company (IRFU) and all that...but O'Gara?  He's contractually tied to a French professional and private club - contracts allow for assisting other rugby union outfits off season?

He already does his media work, Im sure he is allowed flexibility to do other things outside of his coaching at Racing. I'm sure everything is done with the clubs blessing though as its good for them if he is developing as a coach

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 1:51 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Shouldn't the coach know a little something about it himself before passing on that knowledge to others?

Or is ROG there specifically to coach the kicking game?

He's been working with Dan Carter for a while now at Racing. He's bound to have picked up a few pointers Wink
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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 1:52 pm

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Yawn, you two really have nothing to add to these forums except to try and invent Munster bias at every given chance. For all the abuse sin gets, you are by far worse than him and bringing provincial bias onto these boards...

I never really give Sin abuse. I like him, he backs up everything he says with some sort of logic.

In general though Munster fans are desperately predictable in their Schmidt bashing and quasi anti-Ireland/Leinster bias you included.

Think I am fairly unbiased myself. I have even said negative things about Munster players when they have had a poor game. You just have a general dislike for Munster and their fans so are simply clouded in your understandings as to what is being said and feebly attempt to create a provincial bias as your counter argument. You, sir, are the most provincially biased poster on here. I will no longer react to your postings as, quite frankly, I prefer to discuss rugby on this forum.

I am not sure why you are explaining yourself to Guns. He is completely biased as am I or Sin or Fly. Ffs guns thinks Daverage, R Kearnage and McFadden are good players and will pull any excuse from his mullingar hole when explaining J'aimes crap games. Plus if you complain about Joe the truth that it was Cheika who did the groundwork in Leinster might come out or that irelands limited game plan is all we have. The only thing he is right about is Barnes ( who Leinster will probably get in the sf) and annoying the English and Welsh

Cheika was the benefit of good fortune also.  I don't think Jonno Gibbes gets much credit for turning the Leinster pack from powderpuff to hard-nosed.  And even he benefited from getting Cullen and Jennings back from Leicester, those two guys got some great education when they were in England and came back as much improved players.  Leinster always had the back line, the hickies, darcy's, horgans, dempseys that would look good on a clear day, but the real change in Leinster was the development of a proper pack.  Cheika gets the credit and is entitled to plenty of it, but he was fortunate with a couple things falling his way in the forwards all the same.

Joe was a great counter-measure when Cheika parted, as the forwards attention left a legacy and he could bring some skill and flair (yes he did bring some skill and flair) to make Leinster a very dangerous side for a number of years.  Both of them benefited from a settled core star player group.  Jonno continued to give the pack the hard edge and provide Joe the platform to work from.

MOC probably did more for blooding the next generation, partially down to retirements and also due to the wear and tear on the star players.  He bemoaned the IRFU though which was never going to be a winner, he saw it as never having his first choice XV.... when to really run an Irish province you need to look at your first choice XV as the non-test-pro12-level and strong-academy players and look at it as getting the added bonus come important matches of springing a number of internationals into the mix.  The man also couldn't diffuse pressure from the medjia and as the pressure built he became more insular.

The most impressive part of Leo so far I think was 'his' move for Lancaster.  He saw the opportunity to get so much experience into a coaching group crying out for experience, he reached out to lancaster and made it happen.  Whether it only ends up being this season or if we get lancaster for another year (some big clubs has to come looking for him?) I'm very impressed that he had the confidence and security in his role to bring what many medjia would call a 'threat to his position' into the coaching ticket.


One final note.  I don't even know if it was one guy, or a team of people.  But a huge credit should go towards whatever was done in the IRFU to sort out props and scrummaging.  How many seasons ago it would be a case of a scrum half trying to crooked feed the ball through the pack at 40mph because the pack would be retreating at 30mph.  Now almost across the board at the provinces and test level (with the exception of Healy... feck sake Healy pay attention to your scrummaging!) we have the nudge and at least parity as part of the natural expectation going into any game!  Arguably the single biggest change in irish rugby since professionalism!

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 1:59 pm

IRFU generally dont get the credit they deserve. Compare Ireland rugby 30 years ago to now. Back then Irish rugby was way behind the curve now a days they are consistently ahead of the curve in so many ways. They deserve enormous credit.

The IRFU is easily the most professional and organised sporting organisation in Ireland and up there with the GAA as the most successful IMO.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 2:04 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Shouldn't the coach know a little something about it himself before passing on that knowledge to others?

Or is ROG there specifically to coach the kicking game?

He's been working with Dan Carter for a while now at Racing. He's bound to have picked up a few pointers Wink

And Dan picked up pointers from O'Gara on letting his hair down, not taking himself so seriously and having a good night out Wink

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by the-goon on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 2:35 pm

eirebilly wrote:
the-goon wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
the-goon wrote:The 2 golden rules for being a munster supporter:

1. No non-munster fan can criticize a munster player, ever.
2. All the failures of the Irish team are due to Leinster in some capacity

Do you not bore yourself with such stupid comments?

I posted this on the back of Fly getting a tirade of abuse for criticzing Murray's passing, and then the Munster supporter having a pop at Joe. These statements seem quite accurate. The abuse Heaslip, Kearneys x2 and McFadden get from Munster fans is outrageous compared to what was said about Murray.

You're not exactly neutral when it comes to Joe either, you blame him when we lose and blame him when we win, no benefit of the doubt, no praise when the team plays well. Saying that you think you are unbiased is quite amusing really.

Think you need to re-read my posts... I also said that Murray's distribution is slower than it could be. I am critical of players regardless of who they play for and equally give credit regardless of who they play for.

I have never been a fan of Schmidt, not disagreeing with that but I keep it factual and about rugby. It's people like yourself who seemingly have no counter arguments that so simply deploy the straw man argument of provincial bias when confronted with such opinions.

Not a fan of our most successful ever coach, also Leinster's most successful coach, and the most successful coach of any provincial team, ever? Why? Do you hate success?
Also, I never claimed you personally never critcized a munster player ever, or for that matter jumped down the throat of a non-munster fan doing so, I don't think you have done so from memory. But that type of bahaviour is more prelevant of (but not exclusive to) Munster fans, on here anyway. Way to create a straw man of what I was saying....
I have read your posts and I have seen your dislike for our most successful ever coach in full display. I don't expect you to agree with every decision, but the fact that you are more than happy to claim/infer bias when you don't agree with a selection call, blame him for a loss, never credit him with a win or give him the benefit of the doubt does point to a lack objectivity in my eyes. Especially when you have defended far less successul coaches in EOS and Kidney. I remember Munster fans (#notall) on here in 2011-13 defending Kidney's every decision as the team plunged to new lows each year. I don't hear the same defence of Schmidt, yet he is far more successful. Strange.

Finally, what I said initially was tongue in cheek, and joke with an element of truth behind it. But seemed to hit a nerve...

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Cyril on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 2:38 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:The IRFU is easily the most professional and organised sporting organisation in Ireland and up there with the GAA as the most successful IMO.
I guess it's all relative Shocked

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39493537

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 2:39 pm

Yeah it is. The FAI are absolutely dire. Im convinced that there is a lot of dodgy dealing and money wasting going on in that organisation.

That said I'm pretty confident that the IRFU is a more progressive organisation that the RFU.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Cyril on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 2:43 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:That said I'm pretty confident that the IRFU is a more progressive organisation that the RFU.
I guess it depends which province you support.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Sin é on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 2:43 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Sin é wrote:ROG, Felix Jones & Girvan Dempsey going on Tour of US/Japan (seemingly, not all at the same time).

It looks like Felix Jones is really been fastracked.

Great to see. Schmidt referred to his Jones' leadership qualities on numerous occasions. Anyone who has come through the injury horror that he has is bound to be quite a resilient character.

Seems he is a very hard worker. Darren Sweetnam singing his praises with the amount of work he does preparing him. Seems to be obsessive with detail which would appeal to Schmidt.
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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Sin é on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 2:47 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Shouldn't the coach know a little something about it himself before passing on that knowledge to others?

Or is ROG there specifically to coach the kicking game?

ROG is Racing's Defence Coach - best defence last year in Top 14.

He could probably fill in for Farrell I suppose who will be with the Lions, but the Tour will nearly be over by the time the Top 14 finishes off (if Racing make the playoffs).

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 2:49 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Shouldn't the coach know a little something about it himself before passing on that knowledge to others?

Or is ROG there specifically to coach the kicking game?

He's been working with Dan Carter for a while now at Racing. He's bound to have picked up a few pointers Wink

And Dan picked up pointers from O'Gara on letting his hair down, not taking himself so seriously and having a good night out Wink
laughing OK
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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 2:55 pm

Sin é wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Sin é wrote:ROG, Felix Jones & Girvan Dempsey going on Tour of US/Japan (seemingly, not all at the same time).

It looks like Felix Jones is really been fastracked.

Great to see. Schmidt referred to his Jones' leadership qualities on numerous occasions. Anyone who has come through the injury horror that he has is bound to be quite a resilient character.

Seems he is a very hard worker. Darren Sweetnam singing his praises with the amount of work he does preparing him. Seems to be obsessive with detail which would appeal to Schmidt.

Warning! Warning! This is NOT a Drill. We repeat: This is NOT a drill. Irish coach exposed as having Joe Schmidt OCD tendancies - from Munster. We repeat - from Munster!


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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Sin é on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 2:58 pm

the-goon wrote:
Not a fan of our most successful ever coach, also Leinster's most successful coach, and the most successful coach of any provincial team, ever? Why? Do you hate success?

Also, I never claimed you personally never critcized a munster player ever, or for that matter jumped down the throat of a non-munster fan doing so, I don't think you have done so from memory. But that type of bahaviour is more prelevant of (but not exclusive to) Munster fans, on here anyway. Way to create a straw man of what I was saying....
I have read your posts and I have seen your dislike for our most successful ever coach in full display. I don't expect you to agree with every decision, but the fact that you are more than happy to claim/infer bias when you don't agree with a selection call, blame him for a loss, never credit him with a win or give him the benefit of the doubt does point to a lack objectivity in my eyes. Especially when you have defended far less successul coaches in EOS and Kidney. I remember Munster fans (#notall) on here in 2011-13 defending Kidney's every decision as the team plunged to new lows each year. I don't hear the same defence of Schmidt, yet he is far more successful. Strange.

Finally, what I said initially was tongue in cheek, and joke with an element of truth behind it. But seemed to hit a nerve...

I think Kidney has a similar club record to Schmidt - 2 H Cups, a couple of league titles etc. Kidney also has the Grand Slam over Schmidt and of course Schmidt has had some very poor losses in the 6Ns without an injury crisis which is what Kidney had to deal with.

My issue with Schmidt (and it has always been a criticism since Ireland) is that Ireland play an awful brand of rugby and he seems to suck the confidence out of players who are not allowed try anything.

I'm sick and tired of listening to the Munster players first comments about Erasmus usually being 'Rassie allows us to try stuff, and if it doesn't work out, don't worry' which seems to imply elsewhere that they are terrified of making a mistake.
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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 2:59 pm

He is really from Leinster but dont tell anyone.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 3:00 pm

Sin é wrote:
the-goon wrote:
Not a fan of our most successful ever coach, also Leinster's most successful coach, and the most successful coach of any provincial team, ever? Why? Do you hate success?

Also, I never claimed you personally never critcized a munster player ever, or for that matter jumped down the throat of a non-munster fan doing so, I don't think you have done so from memory. But that type of bahaviour is more prelevant of (but not exclusive to) Munster fans, on here anyway. Way to create a straw man of what I was saying....
I have read your posts and I have seen your dislike for our most successful ever coach in full display. I don't expect you to agree with every decision, but the fact that you are more than happy to claim/infer bias when you don't agree with a selection call, blame him for a loss, never credit him with a win or give him the benefit of the doubt does point to a lack objectivity in my eyes. Especially when you have defended far less successul coaches in EOS and Kidney. I remember Munster fans (#notall) on here in 2011-13 defending Kidney's every decision as the team plunged to new lows each year. I don't hear the same defence of Schmidt, yet he is far more successful. Strange.

Finally, what I said initially was tongue in cheek, and joke with an element of truth behind it. But seemed to hit a nerve...

I think Kidney has a similar club record to Schmidt - 2 H Cups, a couple of league titles etc. Kidney also has the Grand Slam over Schmidt and of course Schmidt has had some very poor losses in the 6Ns without an injury crisis which is what Kidney had to deal with.

My issue with Schmidt (and it has always been a criticism since Ireland) is that Ireland play an awful brand of rugby and he seems to suck the confidence out of players who are not allowed try anything.

I'm sick and tired of listening to the Munster players first comments about Erasmus usually being 'Rassie allows us to try stuff, and if it doesn't work out, don't worry' which seems to imply elsewhere that they are terrified of making a mistake.

Kidney did have a golden generation at their peak and Schmidt had to deal with the aftermath transition and has a better win loss ratio despite that.

I think Schmidt trumps Kidney every way you look at it really.

It isnt an awful brand of rugby, its winning rugby. You cant expect our back line to play the way they did when we had guys like Drico, Darce, Hickey and Horgan. These guys were special.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 3:03 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:He is really from Leinster but dont tell anyone.

False Alarm, False Alarm! Get back to your desks please. Munster not involved. Munster not involved. Let's hope Felix never gets close to the top job.......

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 3:13 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

It isnt an awful brand of rugby, its winning rugby. You cant expect our back line to play the way they did when we had guys like Drico, Darce, Hickey and Horgan. These guys were special.

But even Sean O'Brien at the weekend said that the Leinster system allows players more latitude to play what they see in front of them and to try things.  Now he also said that International is less forgiving of mistakes but there is no doubt in his tone that he likes having that degree of more creative freedom he gets with Leinster - and boy with that explosive escape and charge of his, it shows (it was like the old days of Cheika's and Joe's Leinster)  Anyway, I think O'Brien is a little happier now that he got to show Gatland something extra at Leinster that he isn't obviously allowed to so freely express at International.

I do wish Joe Schmidt would have a rethink and become even a little bit less rigid in the caution-caution approach - and allow a fair degree more 'offloading' out of trouble and into space at International level.  I think with the basics we have and that bit added.... boom, we really would be a seriously dangerous side.  Joe needs to loosen the grip.


Last edited by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Sin é on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 3:14 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
the-goon wrote:
Not a fan of our most successful ever coach, also Leinster's most successful coach, and the most successful coach of any provincial team, ever? Why? Do you hate success?

Also, I never claimed you personally never critcized a munster player ever, or for that matter jumped down the throat of a non-munster fan doing so, I don't think you have done so from memory. But that type of bahaviour is more prelevant of (but not exclusive to) Munster fans, on here anyway. Way to create a straw man of what I was saying....
I have read your posts and I have seen your dislike for our most successful ever coach in full display. I don't expect you to agree with every decision, but the fact that you are more than happy to claim/infer bias when you don't agree with a selection call, blame him for a loss, never credit him with a win or give him the benefit of the doubt does point to a lack objectivity in my eyes. Especially when you have defended far less successul coaches in EOS and Kidney. I remember Munster fans (#notall) on here in 2011-13 defending Kidney's every decision as the team plunged to new lows each year. I don't hear the same defence of Schmidt, yet he is far more successful. Strange.

Finally, what I said initially was tongue in cheek, and joke with an element of truth behind it. But seemed to hit a nerve...

I think Kidney has a similar club record to Schmidt - 2 H Cups, a couple of league titles etc. Kidney also has the Grand Slam over Schmidt and of course Schmidt has had some very poor losses in the 6Ns without an injury crisis which is what Kidney had to deal with.

My issue with Schmidt (and it has always been a criticism since Ireland) is that Ireland play an awful brand of rugby and he seems to suck the confidence out of players who are not allowed try anything.

I'm sick and tired of listening to the Munster players first comments about Erasmus usually being 'Rassie allows us to try stuff, and if it doesn't work out, don't worry' which seems to imply elsewhere that they are terrified of making a mistake.

Kidney did have a golden generation at their peak and Schmidt had to deal with the aftermath transition and has a better win loss ratio despite that.

I think Schmidt trumps Kidney every way you look at it really.

It isnt an awful brand of rugby, its winning rugby. You cant expect our back line to play the way they did when we had guys like Drico, Darce, Hickey and Horgan. These guys were special.

Lets not forget where Kidney started with Munster. Of the 2006 & 2008 teams, I think Denis Leamy was the only one he didn't cap.

Kidney capped Healy, Cronin, Ross, Toner, Ryan, SOB, (you could say Heaslip & Bowe & Fitzgerald as they didn't really get a look in with EOS), O'Leary, Murray, Sexton, Jackson, Earls, Zebo and Rob Kearney.


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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 3:19 pm

Kidney is responsible for Rob Kearney? Enough said. His record as a coach should be ceremonially burned in O'Connell street right before the public execution Wink

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Kingshu on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 3:36 pm

http://www.the42.ie/leinster-leavy-conan-leinster-contracts-2017-3324869-Apr2017/


Leavy and Conan stay as Leinster announce 13 contract renewals

Contract extensions:
Jack Conan
Dan Leavy
Luke McGrath
Adam Byrne
Jordi Murphy
Richardt Strauss
Jamie Heaslip [IRFU]
Devin Toner [IRFU]
Ian Nagle
Mick Kearney
Noel Reid
Barry Daly
Ed Byrne
Tom Daly
Bryan Byrne....Not on Leinster’s list of renewals are 37-year-old prop Mike Ross, back row Dominic Ryan and Billy Dardis, all of whom are expected to leave this summer.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Kingshu on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 3:37 pm

Is Dominic Ryan coming to Ulster?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by clivemcl on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 3:38 pm

Any of the Leinster boys have any insight on Dom Ryan?Not on the Leinster contract renewal list.
Also... is VDF not out of contract?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by clivemcl on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 3:39 pm

Beat me to it Kingshu!

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 3:42 pm

clivemcl wrote:Any of the Leinster boys have any insight on Dom Ryan?Not on the Leinster contract renewal list.
Also... is VDF not out of contract?

Think he only signed one about a year ago.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by clivemcl on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 3:44 pm

SecretFly wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Any of the Leinster boys have any insight on Dom Ryan?Not on the Leinster contract renewal list.
Also... is VDF not out of contract?

Think he only signed one about a year ago.
Yea true, just found it.

So Dom Ryan is the only one up for grabs by Ulster. Here's hoping!

Less Irish caps than Robbie Diack though... Run

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 4:06 pm

SecretFly wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:

It isnt an awful brand of rugby, its winning rugby. You cant expect our back line to play the way they did when we had guys like Drico, Darce, Hickey and Horgan. These guys were special.

But even Sean O'Brien at the weekend said that the Leinster system allows players more latitude to play what they see in front of them and to try things.  Now he also said that International is less forgiving of mistakes but there is no doubt in his tone that he likes having that degree of more creative freedom he gets with Leinster - and boy with that explosive escape and charge of his, it shows (it was like the old days of Cheika's and Joe's Leinster)  Anyway, I think O'Brien is a little happier now that he got to show Gatland something extra at Leinster that he isn't obviously allowed to so freely express at International.

I do wish Joe Schmidt would have a rethink and become even a little bit less rigid in the caution-caution approach - and allow a fair degree more 'offloading' out of trouble and into space at International level.  I think with the basics we have and that bit added.... boom, we really would be a seriously dangerous side.  Joe needs to loosen the grip.

Its pretty obvious that club rugby is a step down from International rugby.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 4:09 pm

Sin é wrote:

Lets not forget where Kidney started with Munster. Of the 2006 & 2008 teams, I think Denis Leamy was the only one he didn't cap.

Kidney capped Healy, Cronin, Ross, Toner, Ryan, SOB, (you could say Heaslip & Bowe & Fitzgerald as they didn't really get a look in with EOS), O'Leary, Murray, Sexton, Jackson, Earls, Zebo and Rob Kearney.


Kidney had a good year or two at the top but his methods fairly quickly became outdated and he didnt adapt quickly enough. In his last two years in charge his win loss ratio was 41% and we were losing to sides like Italy. He had to go.

Kidney may have capped a lot of new players but didnt manage the transition very well really.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 4:12 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Its pretty obvious that club rugby is a step down from International rugby.

Well O'Brien plays both and that's not what he said or how I'd interpret his tone. Lots of good teams play it more like Leinster at International than Ireland do. It's doable. It's doable with the kinds of players we can now give to such a gameplan too. Loosen up on the caution, lessen the endless running-into-contact stuff and we go up as a threat not down.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by profitius on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 4:18 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Lets not forget where Kidney started with Munster. Of the 2006 & 2008 teams, I think Denis Leamy was the only one he didn't cap.

Kidney capped Healy, Cronin, Ross, Toner, Ryan, SOB, (you could say Heaslip & Bowe & Fitzgerald as they didn't really get a look in with EOS), O'Leary, Murray, Sexton, Jackson, Earls, Zebo and Rob Kearney.


Kidney had a good year or two at the top but his methods fairly quickly became outdated and he didnt adapt quickly enough. In his last two years in charge his win loss ratio was 41% and we were losing to sides like Italy. He had to go.

Kidney may have capped a lot of new players but didnt manage the transition very well really.


The exact same thing is happening with Schmidt. I just hope he sees some sense and takes the shackles off the team. They're capable of playing a better brand of rugby than what we currently have.
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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 5:01 pm

Yeah kidney had a good couple of years in the 6ns, beat one of the sh teams ( in competition) and then lost a qf followed by indifferent results in the 6n with the odd once off win.

Yep. That was deccie

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 5:15 pm

profitius wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Lets not forget where Kidney started with Munster. Of the 2006 & 2008 teams, I think Denis Leamy was the only one he didn't cap.

Kidney capped Healy, Cronin, Ross, Toner, Ryan, SOB, (you could say Heaslip & Bowe & Fitzgerald as they didn't really get a look in with EOS), O'Leary, Murray, Sexton, Jackson, Earls, Zebo and Rob Kearney.


Kidney had a good year or two at the top but his methods fairly quickly became outdated and he didnt adapt quickly enough. In his last two years in charge his win loss ratio was 41% and we were losing to sides like Italy. He had to go.

Kidney may have capped a lot of new players but didnt manage the transition very well really.


The exact same thing is happening with Schmidt. I just hope he sees some sense and takes the shackles off the team. They're capable of playing a better brand of rugby than what we currently have.

No not the exact same. Schmidt's winning ration in the last two years is 55%, unbeaten at home in the 6N. In his last six nations Ireland came second. In Kidney's last six nations Ireland came 5th. The quality of opposition is also superior now.

I think the guys that Schmidt is bringing through are playing at a higher level that the new caps that Kidney brought through. There seems to be more of a process in place which seem to be the case across the board really. We are much more organised now.

We may be playing a little more conservatively than previous Ireland teams but we also have a back line that isnt as good as previous Ireland teams. Its all relative. Not convinced that we play a bad brand of rugby.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 5:21 pm

Stats hunt.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by theslosty on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 5:47 pm

Joe is becoming an increasingly polarising figure on this site however the truth (as always) lies somewhere in the middle. Personally I'd rate his tenure so far at 7/10... results wise he's probably our most successful coach ever but he loses a point for the rather depressing style of rugby we play (although there is a hint of irony in the Munster criticisms, a team not exactly renowned for its attacking enterprise). His team selections can be frustratingly conservative to the extent it takes an injury for the form player to break in (see O'Mahony and Payne vs England).

What I've found particularly difficult as an Irish supporter is that Joe coached one of the most creative teams ever seen in Europe, so it's not like he's incapable of doing it. That Leinster side circa 2010-13 was for me the FC Barcelona of rugby.
Guns reckons Joe is just making the best of what we've got - that this backline doesn't square up to what we had in years past. Clearly this generation has no one in BOD's class and with the turgid stuff the provinces (minus Connacht) were serving up last year, I could accept this argument. However Leinster and Munster have been scoring for fun this season, and given they make up the bulk of the Irish side it's frustrating that this isn't translating to the Test arena. Perhaps the gap between European club rugby and Test rugby is greater than it used to be, in fairness to Joe.

Moving on, the induction of ROG is an interesting move. I haven't seen much of his punditry on RTE, did he ever comment much on Schmidt? Would be particularly interesting if he's made many criticisms in the way Shane Horgan did recently.
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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

Post by SecretFly on Wed 05 Apr 2017, 6:22 pm

You can't blame Horgan for being Horgan. The man gets a microphone and he just can't stop talking. He just can't stop fecking talking... he just can't stop tal.................. shut the f**k up Fly!

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2016-17

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