PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

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PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 5:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).Hey, Didn't we just have a Major?
Here we go again, the PGA Championship on Tillinghast's Baltusrol in Northern New Jersey. The PGA used to be known as Glory's Last Shot until the PGA Tour interfered and suggested the PGA Of America change their slogan as the FedEx Cup was really the pros' last chance at "Glory".
Yeah, yeah.
But we're in New Jersey, Springsteen's manor, so let's just celebrate four Glory Days, even though the "speedball" will be rocketing off the face of a golf club rather than from the hand of a baseball pitcher.

2).It's perhaps unrealistic to expect a repeat of the thrilling duel between Stenson and Mickelson but a great field should produce its own thrills and spills as most of the players compete in the USA for the first time in a month.
As for Henrik's and Phil's reactions to Troon:
Henrik: "It's a boyhood dream come true, and something I wanted to achieve all my life, and then it finally happened."
Phil: "It's the first time in my career that I have played that level of golf and not had it be enough to win a tournament."

3).Half a dozen golfers left Glen Abbey thinking they gifted Jhonny Vegas the Canadian Open win - happy to see Martin Laird secure his card and fleetingly stick his nose in front before treading water for his final few holes; and Kuchar & Snedeker will feel they squandered golden opportunities to wrap up their automatic Ryder Cup Team place. Kuchar, Fowler and Reed are all headed to Rio (for eleven days according to Rickie) so the guess here is that Davis Love has tipped all three the wink that their RC participation is assured.

4).After this week, the Tour visits Hartford, the Quad Cities and Greensboro and anyone out of the FedEx Top 125 points placings after that lot loses their chance at a Barclays tee-time, and possibly their Tour card for next season as well.
Including Jamie Donaldson and it's looking increasingly as if he's given up on his PGA Tour membership - whether it's his schedule, his game or both, things don't seem to have worked out for him, professionally at least, so for him this possibly really his "last shot".

5).Phil has history on his side as he looks to get right back on his horse to "defend" the PGA Championship he won at Baltusrol in 2005; he then went on to win the very next Major, at Augusta in April, 2006, so he should relish the chance to go from disappointment to a relative comfort zone.

6).Top 50 finishers among the 24 playing tomorrow who finished behind Phil that week include:
T10: Vijay, Toms
T17: Zach, Westwood
T23: Sergio
T28: Vaughn Taylor
T34: Bohn, Furyk, Freddie Jac
T40: Scott, KJ Choi
T47: Ryan Palmer, Stenson, Yang
Not much course form to go by there.

7).Baltusrol has the reputation as a bit of a tree-lined snoozer, all Par-3's and 4's except the Par-5's 17th and 18th: The 18th was the easiest hole in 2005, a reachable Par-5 but it has now been lengthened with a narrow driving area dominated by water alongside the fairway. Unless there's a following wind, only the longest/most reckless will go for the green in two, so effectively making it a lay-up off the tee, lay-up second shot, wedge, putt putt. Not guaranteed to stir too much excitement but perhaps the PGA can liven it up a tad?

8).I'm interested to see how the nouveau British contingent fares, Hatton and Johnston, Fitzpatrick (lousy form since Sweden) and Sullivan (has promised more than he's delivered this summer). And what about Willett (quiet summer for him) and Wood (beware the injured golfer?)?
Of the continental Europeans, my each-way choice is Molinari, quietly having a fine summer and perhaps the sort of golfer that will play within himself, fairways and greens, and suddenly find himself in contention.

9).It's been hot and muggy in the New York area but temps are forecast to moderate to the mid-80's most of the week, with thunderstorms possible especially on Friday and Sunday. Hopefully the modest rainfall recently has been enough to ensure we won't have a repeat of Glen Abbey's brown out.
Day, McIlroy and Spieth are Major-less this year; sounds like Day has had his practice restricted by family health concerns, but that change could be as good as a rest for him. Can't fancy Spieth but hopefully Rory will be somewhere close to his best.

10).Willett, Dustin Johnson, Stenson. Who's next in line as we seem to be enjoying a near epidemic of first-time Major winners? Answers please.
The PGA Championship may be the Fourth Major in almost every respect, but it's still more important in our review of a golfer's legacy than the FedEx and WGC action. Hope the golfers feel the same.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 3:22 pm

GPB,
They say Rickie's a great locker-room presence, but given his RC record that must be the European locker-room.

Tyrrell Hatton playing Hartford. Good move by him, would think his game might play well at River Highlands.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 3:57 pm

Kwini, its not like Rickie is losing a lot of matches in the RC.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 4:22 pm

True enough, but zero wins in eight matches is a record Europe would like to see sustained!


I thought we'd see wholesale withdrawals from this week's Travelers, but nothing so far. princedrac is projecting Travelers winner to harvest 50 owgr points. That looks more like it.

princedrac also shows Jason Day has a higher %age of Major Top Ten finishes per Majors played than Tiger Woods.
Wins? Not so much.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 4:23 pm

Kwini

Surprised that you are shocked about Jimmy Walker winning a major, especially that it was the PGA. If anything it was a surprise that he hadn't performed better in majors so far.
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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 4:37 pm

Walker seems to me to be another McDowell, Rev Webb, Dufner etc in being a one major wonder.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 4:39 pm

Super

Really? He has now won 6 PGAT events since the end of 2013. Not many with a better record over that period.
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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 4:40 pm

Winning Travelers (projected at 50 pts per PD) would put Hatton ahead of Sullivan and possilby ahead of Fitzpatrick who is playing Lawrie Match Play.

A Top 10 at Travelers could put Hatton ahead of Kjeldson and #10 on the World point list.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 4:57 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

Really?  He has now won 6 PGAT events since the end of 2013.  Not many with a better record over that period.

Yes Mac, Had he been in his 20's I might have thought he would "step on", but at 37, he's a bit of a johnny come lately when it comes to reaching the top echelons of the game. Seems a bit of a stretch that he could continue to be at a top level after having spent so much of his career in relative doldrums. Doesn't seem to have much more in his repertoire than the likes of Dufner, Bradley, Rev Webb, Fat accountant etc.

Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 5:48 pm

In case you missed it, Phil Mickelson is leading the Vardon Trophy Scoring Average rankings.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 6:15 pm

GPB wrote:In case you missed it, Phil Mickelson is leading the Vardon Trophy Scoring Average rankings.

I had missed that. Pretty interesting.

I find Phils career extraordinary, He was around about 5-6 years before Tiger (Phil won 91 Tuscon open) and is still going strong years after Tiger burned out. Tiger literally limped just over extending his career beyond 10 years but phil is going strong after 25 years.
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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 6:56 pm

Mac,
Walker has under-achieved for a year and endured a horrible Presidents Cup. No Top 3's since last May (15 months ago) and really hasn't been at the races for a long time.

He played great last week but imagine Butch Harmon was the only one to see it coming.

Four first-time Major winners this year, who will be the next?

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by I'm never wrong on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 7:01 pm

McLaren wrote:I find Phils career extraordinary, He was around about 5-6 years before Tiger (Phil won 91 Tuscon open) and is still going strong years after Tiger burned out.  Tiger literally limped just over extending his career beyond 10 years but phil is going strong after 25 years.

Putting aside your self confessed love of the Tiger, if they both stopped now, which career would you have preferred to have had Mac? Short and all flashing lights, or a slow and steady burn?

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by sirbenson on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 7:07 pm

Is there anyone who is in steadier decline than Hunter Mahan? Was once a certainty to make every major, fed ex cup event etc....important week this one considering his success at the Travelers before

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by sirbenson on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 7:11 pm

If you'd said sometime last year Walker was to win a major in 2015, I wouldn't have been shocked but like Kwini said he has had a poor season up until last night! Incredible display last night! Well deserved, didn't miss a short putt at all in the final round! Clutch stuff

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 7:16 pm

sirbenson wrote:Is there anyone who is in steadier decline than Hunter Mahan? Was once a certainty to make every major, fed ex cup event etc....important week this one considering his success at the Travelers before

It's been steady ever since he bottled it at the Ryder Cup at Celtic Manor. Looks like a hapless goon.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 7:33 pm

FWIW, I picked Walker for my Yahoo Fantasy team. I was the only one in my two leagues to pick him.

Came in T1st in one league and Solo 2nd in the other. Mainly because I was trying conserve J-Day picks for the playoffs (you are only allowed 10) and I got on the Dustin Johnson train.

Walker had four solid rounds in Canada the week prior and I thought he was good for a flyer.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 7:52 pm

Its basically a two man race for the PGAofA Player of the year

Pts - Player - (A + B + C + D + E + F)
76 - Jason Day - (0 + 20 + 20 + 16 + 20 + 0)
76 - Dustin Johnson - (30 + 0 + 10 + 18 + 18 + 0)
48 - Adam Scott - (0 + 0 + 20 + 12 + 16 + 0)
48 - Jordan Spieth - (0 + 0 + 20 + 14 + 14 + 0)
48 - Henrik Stenson - (30 + 0 + 0 + 10 + 8 + 0)
32 - Phil Mickelson - (0 + 0 + 0 + 20 + 12 + 0)
30 - Danny Willett - (30 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0)
30 - Jimmy Walker - (30 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0)


- - - -
Standings are based on:

A - Major Championships = 30 points
B - PLAYERS Championship = 20 points
C - All other official PGAT wins = 10 points
D - Scoring Average = 20 pts for 1st, 18 for 2nd, continuing to decline by 2 points down to 10th place.
E - Money list = Same point distribution as Scoring average
F - Bonus for 2nd major in a year = 50 points, 3rd = 75, 4th = 100

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 8:49 pm

super,
You may think Hunner "looks like a hapless goon" but he'd played well since Celtic Manor and, despite his ill-advised attempts at facial hair, he's a good guy to follow.
Agree w/sirbenson that his decline is a mystery - hopefully we'll see a renaissance this week; he certainly needs it.

Looks like Lowry's got over his evening w/Carl Frampton and heading to Hartford.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 9:24 pm

He is currently out with an injury but another golfer with a similar slide in the rankings as Mahan is Nick Watney. He was ranked at #122 at the beginning of the year before he went out with an herniated disc in his lower back

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 9:32 pm

GPB wrote:Its basically a two man race for the PGAofA Player of the year

Pts - Player     - (A + B + C + D + E + F)
76 - Jason Day - (0 + 20 + 20 + 16 + 20 + 0)
76 - Dustin Johnson - (30 + 0 + 10 + 18 + 18 + 0)
48 - Adam Scott - (0 + 0 + 20 + 12 + 16 + 0)
48 - Jordan Spieth - (0 + 0 + 20 + 14 + 14 + 0)
48 - Henrik Stenson - (30 + 0 + 0 + 10 + 8 + 0)
32 - Phil Mickelson - (0 + 0 + 0 + 20 + 12 + 0)
30 - Danny Willett - (30 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0)
30 - Jimmy Walker - (30 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0)


- - - -
Standings are based on:

A - Major Championships = 30 points
B - PLAYERS Championship = 20 points
C - All other official PGAT wins = 10 points
D - Scoring Average = 20 pts for 1st, 18 for 2nd, continuing to decline by 2 points down to 10th place.
E - Money list = Same point distribution as Scoring average
F - Bonus for 2nd major in a year = 50 points, 3rd = 75, 4th = 100
So far it's DJ for me.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 9:36 pm

Doubt they'd vote for anyone without a major, so that rules Day out.
Can't see past Dustbin, saying that, not been a stellar year where anyone has really set the heather on fire, but Johnson is the best of the bunch in a forgettable year.

How is Lowry's ranking looking? Must be due a bit of a drop, unlike his waistline.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 10:07 pm

sirB/Kwini

I just think Walker had already proved that he can be a cut above the rest if he plays to his best. You can't say that about all players.

Jimmy Walker has had major written all over him for a year or two now, even with a little dip in form.
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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 10:53 pm

Mac,
Can't agree at all with your Walker assertion; his success hitherto have been relatively geographical localized, and apart from his purple patch in 2014 (a 7th, 8th & 9th) has never had a Top 20 in a Major, missed the cut in the last two.
What shouts "Major" about that?

DJ for POTY for me!

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 2:21 am

The "hapless decline" #1 for me has to be Lukey. Gets to that VERY rare air that is #1 in the world (something FIGJAM has and will never see), then changes his swing to win that elusive first major and has seen very little success since then.

Not great for Hunter to be sure, but he was never the #1 player in the world.

POTY ... DJ, but not if Day wins the Fed Ex.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 2:51 am

Has any decline ever been as hapless as that of Mr.Woods? 'Course, he started his fall at a stratospheric level, but really . . . . . .

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 9:54 am

Who knows, maybe I just overrated Walker but he seemed an obvious Major candidate to me. I place a lot of value on PGAT wins. Anyone with 5+ wins on the PGAT is primed to win a major by calculations.

Walker a far superior player to the likes of Gmac, Hamilton, Curtis, Glover and Yang.
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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 10:41 am

Mac,
You were certainly correct about Walker's "Major" credentials . . . . . . surprising he'd largely kept them hidden all year.


Hadn't realized that Soren Kjeldsen is playing at this week's Travelers. Molinari's there too and he played well in Hartford last year.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 11:14 am

kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
You were certainly correct about Walker's "Major" credentials . . . . . . surprising he'd largely kept them hidden all year.


Hadn't realized that Soren Kjeldsen is playing at this week's Travelers. Molinari's there too and he played well in Hartford last year.

Kjeldsen is a balls hair from RC qualification so he's probably trying to garner enough points, if not, he's deserving of a pick in my opinion.

My question mark over Walker is why it took him from turning pro in 2001 to 2013 to "announce" himself on the golfing world. Anyone who takes that long to forge a career doesn't seem to me the sort of person who could possibly sustain it.
He makes a shed load of birdies, but I just can't see him being a mainstay like countless other one major winners who have gone before him. Of course, I could be wrong, but I can't think of anyone who has taken that long to win a major, and then goes on to win many more.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 11:20 am

Super

Pea brain "announced" himself nearly 20 years ago, I bet he would take Walker's major record.
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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 11:25 am

McLaren wrote:Super

Pea brain "announced" himself nearly 20 years ago, I bet he would take Walker's major record.

He hasn't won a major though Mac, that's what I mean by "announced", the issue with Walker is he's 37 and only just won. How many others have taken that long to win one and then gone on to win more? Cabrera maybe? Even Vijay was younger.
I bet Walker would love Garcia's PGA wins too.

I actually just looked up Cabrera, I literally cannot believe that he is only 46. I thought he was close to 60.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 11:35 am

super_realist wrote:...My question mark over Walker is why it took him from turning pro in 2001 to 2013 to "announce" himself on the golfing world. Anyone who takes that long to forge a career doesn't seem to me the sort of person who could possibly sustain it....
Alternatively, here's a man who's worked his way up, improving his game and swing, determined to make a name for himself. The fact he's been a bit of a journeyman may make him all the more determined to stay there now he's reached these dizzy heights. Also, he's no spring chicken so he might well know he's got to make as much of this as he can, while he can.
His game certainly looks solid enough.
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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 11:44 am

super,
Jimmy Walker had a very tough time with injuries; he was Player of the Year on the old Nationwide Tour in 2004, then could only play a few PGA tournaments and had to work his way from injuries through the Nationwide ranks until getting his card for good in 2009. Only really broke through after joining Butch Harmon about four years ago.

Agree about Kjeldsen, but he needs to maximize his diminishing opportunities pretty bl00dy quickly. A win wouldn't hurt, a la Donaldson in 2014.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 12:00 pm

Golfers with persistent injuries rarely make a long career at the top. I'd like to be proven wrong, but if your body is so weak you can't cope with playing golf, it's hardly likely to get better with age.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 12:09 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Has any decline ever been as hapless as that of Mr.Woods? 'Course, he started his fall at a stratospheric level, but really  . . . . . .

Probably not, but no one else ever reached the same height from which they could fall. As I pointed out earlier Mickelson has been at the top of the game for 25 years, he could retire at some point in the next year and never have suffered a major dip in form. I could be wrong but I think Phil has been in the top 50 since 1993? Given the era he competed in I am not sure phil gets placed in the correct tier of golf history. If someone wanted to argue Phil was one of the top 5 players of all time I wouldn't offer up too much of a fight to counter that.


Back to Tigers demise, is it better to look at it as an inevitable loss of form late in his career, or should he have been more competitive in the majors post his shagging incident?


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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 12:24 pm

Mac, he hasn't a brain in his head, so it's entirely his own fault. Good riddance to the C.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by raycastleunited on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 1:38 pm

I'm with shotrock - got to go with Luke for hapless decline. Tiger's woes mainly down to injury, very different to just forgetting how to be good at golf.

The only other explanation for Luke's fall is that maybe everyone else has got better but he has stood still?




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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 1:50 pm

Nah,
Lukey tried to hit it further, changed his teacher, yada yada yada, but forgot what brung him, his short game which was best in the world for two or three years.
Back to Pat Goss, but still short and crooked (185th "strokes gained off the tee) without recapturing his putting touch (69th "strokes gained putting"). Only one Top Ten all season tells the rest of the story.
Hopefully the friendly confines of TPC River Highlands will get him back in his comfort zone.

None of which diminishes what he achieved five years ago. (And I'm not talking #1.)

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 9:28 pm

Kjeldsen still has the Dennark tournament to play before the RC qualification ends. The tourney is being staged in his home town, so I'd be surprised if he didn't bag a top result to at least justify a pick.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by raycastleunited on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:54 pm

I know it keeps everyone interested, but why have a qualification process for a team event? Surely it would be better for the captain to make 12 picks.

What other team sport operates such a regimented selection process?

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 3:11 pm

Ray, I think at least part of the "qualification" is to ensure that at least some of the players on the Europe side at least are playing in Euro competitions. If this wasn't mandatory, I think we'd see fewer players stay on European tour.

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 6:37 pm

In fact it isn't USA vs Europe, it's the PGAT vs the ET, with only American and European players eligable to play. 30 years ago that was the same thing, but obviously it isn't today.

pedro

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Re: PGA Tour: PGA Championship - Glory Days: Notes from the Ballwasher

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