Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

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Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Kingshu on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:02 pm

http://www.the42.ie/pro12-transfers-201617-signings-2899807-Jul2016/

Cardiff
Powerhouse number eight Nick Williams has left Irish shores for the Welsh capital club, with the exciting out-half/fullback Matthew Morgan joining him after two seasons in England with Bristol.
Morgan is not the only Wales international returning to his native land from England, with loosehead prop Rhys Gill a good signing for the Blues from Saracens.
Hooker Kirby Myhill, out-half Steven Shingler, and South African lock George Earle all join from the Scarlets, while Willis Halaholo is perhaps the most interesting signing of all for Cardiff.
The 26-year-old Kiwi centre has been impressive across 13 appearances for the Hurricanes in Super Rugby this season and will add linebreaking ability when he arrives in Wales in October or November, following Waikato’s Mitre 10 Cup campaign. A three-year deal means Halaholo could qualify to play for Wales under current residency rules.

Connacht
The reigning champions have not recruited extensively, with once-capped Springbok out-half Marnitz Boshoff coming in after the departure of AJ MacGinty to Sale Sharks.
Outside centre Eoin Griffin returns to his native province following two frustrating years with London Irish. Versatile back Cian Kelleher is another who provides Pat Lam with options behind the scrum, having joined from Leinster on a two-year deal.
24-year-old tighthead prop Conor Carey is an interesting addition, having initially come through Ulster’s underage system. The Ireland U20 international shifted to the Championship in 2013, playing for Ealing Trailfinders and then Nottingham.
Connacht’s recruitment also sees two New Zealand-born, Irish-qualified players come on board, in 22-year-old prop Dominic Robertson-McCoy and 27-year-old outside back Josh Rowland. Both have ITM Cup experience, while Rowland is already an Ireland 7s international.

Dragons
The Welsh region haven’t managed to attract a big-name signing from the Southern Hemisphere, but Kiwi centre Sam Beard joins from Edinburgh.
There are three new faces who have made the moved from Cardiff in props Tom Davies, Craig Mitchell and Sam Hobbs.
South African centre Pat Howard will be familiar to Munster fans after his loan spell at the province during the 2014/15 season. The 24-year-old joins from Northampton Saints, while experienced out-half/fullback Nick Macleod has moved from Sale.

Edinburgh
Alan Solomons’ men have lured promising Irish wing Rory Scholes to Scotland from Ulster ahead of the new season, while Scottish international out-half Duncan Weir is another addition.
Out-half Jason Tovey is a permanent signing following his loan spell from the Dragons last season, while brothers Kevin and Glenn Bryce join from Glasgow Warriors.
The 6’5″ Fiji 7s international Viliame Mata is set to sign on after the Olympics [the move has not been official confirmed yet], and would bring dynamism, handling skill and intelligence to the back row or second row.
Tongan international back row Viliami Fihaki has been confirmed after leaving Sale this summer, while former Australia 7s international Solomoni ‘Junior’ Rasolea bolsters the midfield.
Pacy ex-Australia U20 wing Alex Northam joins after a loan spell at La Rochelle last season, and Samoan centre Sasa Tofilau has signed on the back of his impressive performances in Scottish club rugby.

Glasgow
Gregor Townsend’s men have compensated for the departure of Taqele Naiyarovoro by bringing in elusive Italy wing Leonardo Sarto from Zebre.
35-year-old ex-All Black hooker Corey Flynn has brought huge experience from Toulouse, while fellow Kiwi and tighthead prop Jarrod Firth comes on board after featuring for the Chiefs in the 2015 Super Rugby season.
Completing the trio of New Zealanders joining is out-half Hagen Schulte, who had a trial spell in Glasgow last season and qualifies to play for Scotland through one of his grandparents.
England Saxons-capped Rory Clegg comes on board from Oyonnax in France, while Canada international prop Djustice Sears-Duru - who played against Ireland at the World Cup last year – has also signed.
Namibian lock Tjiuee Uanivi, who was also at the 2015 RWC, has the task of replacing Leone Nakarawa, and Fiji international Nemia Kenatale provides a new option at scrum-half.

Leinster
Ireland international centre Robbie Henshaw is among the best signings in the league this summer, although his plan for an early impact has been ruined by a knee injury.
Kiwi native Jamison Gibson-Park had been due to arrive earlier this month, but the scrum-half has been playing impressive cameo roles off the bench for the Hurricanes in their drive to the Super Rugby semi-finals and remains in New Zealand.
He has again been named on the bench for the Canes’ semi-final against the Chiefs on Saturday [KO 8.35am Irish time, Sky Sports 1].
Returning to Leinster on a short-term deal is Niall Morris, who won a Premiership title with Leicester Tigers but had last season ruined by injury. Finally, returning to professional rugby is former Munster lock Ian Nagle.

Munster
David Nucifora’s plans for more inter-provincial transfer movement have seen the highly-promising centre Sam Arnold move south from Ulster this summer, bringing with him impressive athletic ability.
32-year-old tighthead prop John Andress returns to Ireland following his nine-year stint abroad, while lock Darren O’Shea is back with his home province after two seasons of gaining valuable experience with Worcester in England.
Munster’s most recent signing is the 22-year-old South African lock Jean Kleyn, who looks like a very strong addition.

Ospreys
Kiwi centre Kieran Fonotia is an excellent signing for the Ospreys, after a strong Super Rugby season with the Crusaders. A tiler before turning professional in rugby, the 28-year-old will bring power to the Welsh side’s midfield this season.
The signing of 56-times capped Wales lock Bradley Davies is another impressive piece of transfer business for Steve Tandy’s outfit, as he makes the move back to home soil from Wasps.
Wales international tighthead Rhodri Jones, still only 24, has moved from the Scarlets and hooker Hugh Gustafson joins from the Dragons.

Scarlets
The Scarlets have seen many players depart, but their recruitment has been highly positive in the off-season.
Wales and Lions centre Jonathan Davies is back after two seasons with Clermont in the Top 14, while 25-year-old Kiwi wing Johnny McNicholl will be an excellent addition later this season. A three-year deal may put him in line for Welsh caps.
23-year-old Wales international fullback/out-half Rhys Patchell makes the move from Cardiff, as centre Richard Smith and wing Tom Williams join him in moving from the capital.
Experienced South African tighthead Werner Kruger, who has four Springbok caps, should strengthen the set-piece, with his compatriot Rynier Bernardo moving from the Ospreys to compete for a second row place.
Irishman Tadhg Beirne will be doing the same following his transfer from Leinster. The 24-year-old lock was capped by Ireland at U19 and U20 levels before making four senior appearances for the eastern province.
Scrum-half Jonathan Evans moves back to Wales after a year with Bath.

Treviso
The big Southern Hemisphere signing of the season for Treviso is Marty Banks, the Highlanders’ back-up out-half, who should prove to be a superb acquisition.
Italy international out-half Tommaso Allan has also joined from Perpignan, while he is joined by fellow Test players in outside back Tommaso Benvenuti, wing David Odiete and scrum-half Tito Tebaldi.
22-year-old prop Tiziano Pasquali moves home to Italy after attending school in Scotland and coming through the Leicester academy, as 31-year-old Kiwi wing Michael Tagicakibau joins from the Scarlets.
Of most interest to Irish rugby fans is Treviso’s signing of out-half Ian McKinley, who featured for Zebreon permit terms in the Pro12 last season. His progress will be followed closely.

Ulster
The capture of All Blacks-capped fullback Charles Piutau is surely the most exciting inbound transfer of any in the Pro12 this summer, with his dangerous running game certain to thrill fans at the Kingspan Stadium.
Springboks back row Marcell Coetzee is another big-name signing for the northern province, although he suffered a serious knee injury following confirmation of the move.
Imposing lock Kieran Treadwell is a clever addition from Harlequins and looks like a potential future international, while Ireland-capped tighthead Rodney Ah You shifts up from Connacht.
Brett Herron has landed in to provide an option at out-half behind Paddy Jackson, while Ireland Clubs scrum-half Angus Lloyd has earned a contract on the back of his impressive form for Trinity in the Ulster Bank League.

Zebre
The Italian side’s biggest signing of the summer is New Zealand sevens international Kurt Baker, who previously played Super Rugby with the Highlanders.
There are four new South African faces in the shape of ex-Lions back row Derick Minnie, 22-year-old prop Bart le Roux, former Baby Boks wing Lloyd Greeff, and scrum-half Carlo Engelbrecht from the Blue Bulls.
Four incoming Italy internationals should boost the club’s quality, with second row Josh Furno, experienced hooker Carlo Festuccia and 36-times capped outside back Giovanbattista Venditti all signing.
22-year-old wing Mattia Bellini, capped five times already, is also on board on a permanent deal after playing on permit terms last season.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 04 Aug 2016, 11:50 pm

Interesting interview with Conor O'Shea on coaching Italy, and his immediate building of links with the two coaches of Treviso and Zebre to develop fitness levels of approx 30% of the Italian squad players.

He has a hard task ahead of him, but the influx of players and larger squads for the two teams might help them last the season better, particularly during the November and Six Nations windows.

Looking forward to the opening weeks to see how the various teams go.


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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 04 Aug 2016, 11:55 pm

Here's one summary of high-profile signings coming into the PRO12 this season.


Charles Piutau, Ulster

Not too much explanation needed here. The All Black full-back was in excellent form for Wasps last season and was one of the larger contributing factors in their march to the semi-finals of both the Premiership and Champions Cup. In addition to his obvious class, Piutau will also give Ulster greater flexibility in their back-line, capable of lining up across the back three or at outside centre. He should combine well with Jared Payne, the man he replaced in the Blues team following Payne’s move north in 2011, and will bring incision and the ability to keep plays alive to the province’s backfield.

Marcell Coetzee, Ulster

Having already recruited Piutau, Ulster’s luring of Coetzee to Belfast should go down as one of the best one-two punch pieces of rugby business in recent years. Unfortunately, a serious knee injury will delay the South African’s Ulster debut but once he returns to full fitness, a date which looks likely to be early in the new year, he will add plenty of workrate, breakdown expertise and physical edge to the Ulster back row. He brings test-calibre attributes to the unit and that has been something the men from Northern Ireland have been missing of late.

Johnny McNicholl, Scarlets

Much of the attention in West Wales may be on the return of prodigal son Jonathan Davies but in McNicholl the Scarlets have added a winger whose play over the last five months has been as good as any wing in the world. Although his consistency has been at times questioned during his stint with the Crusaders, his pace, power and support running have always been beyond reproach. Alongside dynamic full-back Liam Williams and playing in the Scarlets’ ambitious system, McNicholl is a more than solid bet to trouble the PRO12 top try scorers’ table this season, even with his arrival delayed by domestic duties in New Zealand.

Willis Halaholo, Cardiff Blues

Another Kiwi to have had a stellar season, Halaholo has filled the Ma’a Nonu and Conrad Smith-shaped voids in the Hurricanes midfield with aplomb over the last few months. His lines and powerful carrying have split many a Super Rugby defence asunder this season and he will be hoping to replicate that form this weekend in the tournament final. As good a player as Halaholo is, he is not enough to singlehandedly put the Blues back into contention at the right end of the Pro12, but he is certainly a significant step in the right direction for the region.


Jamison Gibson-Park, Leinster

Halaholo’s Hurricanes team-mate Gibson-Park is also moving north this summer, linking up with Leinster, where he will attempt to replace the retiring Eoin Reddan and the departing Isaac Boss. The scrum-half has been largely limited to bench appearances during the 2016 Super Rugby season but with TJ Perenara entrenched ahead of him, that is not an indicator of any lack of ability on Gibson-Park’s part. His void of International caps make him appealing to the Ireland Rugby Football Union, whilst his Super Rugby experience will endear him to Leinster, who only have one other senior scrum-half on their books, Luke McGrath.

Leonardo Sarto, Glasgow Warriors

Glasgow have replaced the hammer of Taqele Naiyaravoro with the rapier of Sarto. Since making his Azzurri debut in 2013, Sarto has been one of the more consistent players in Italian rugby, despite playing in international and club (Zebre) teams that have struggled overall. A move to Glasgow should see him given more front-foot ball and the opportunity to play with players of a higher calibre and that could be the making of Sarto. Mark Bennett’s star continues to rise and defenders are becoming more and more drawn to him, potentially creating plenty of space for the Italian to operate in out wide.

Marnitz Boshoff, Connacht

AJ MacGinty, star of the USA’s Rugby World Cup campaign, had a profound impact in Connacht last season, helping them to a maiden Pro12 title with his control and playmaking in the ten jersey. He has since departed for Sale Sharks and that same responsibility will now fall on Boshoff’s shoulders. The South African soared to prominence with a stellar campaign in the 2014 Super Rugby season, shining for the Lions in their return to the competition, but he has since been usurped by Elton Jantjies in the pecking order. Pat Lam will be hopeful he can unearth the 2014 Boshoff and if the South African can replicate the kind of control he exhibited that season, Connacht’s fortunes in the Champions Cup could look relatively favourable this season.

David Odiete, Benetton Treviso

The balance of power in Italy seems to see-saw on an almost yearly basis but luring Odiete over from Zebre has to be seen as a real coup for Treviso. The young full-back/wing impressed in his debut campaign for the Azzurri last season and looked like one of the most threatening Italian backs of the last ten years. His counter-attacking ability will be invaluable for a club that is likely to find itself on the back-foot for much of the season and his form will of no doubt be of considerable interest to new Italy boss Conor O’Shea.


People got others to add for their team or another?

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by George Carlin on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 7:11 pm

Really good thread, Kingshu - will try to bump it up a bit.

Some very good signings - the sort of  high quality, lower hype players that I enjoy seeing explode into the league. Bundee Aki shows what sort of impact you can make as a backline player with Super Rugby chops. Piutau and Coetzee are the really big names, but I think that some of the lesser known players will make a splash.

In terms of who will make a big impact, I have a sneaky suspicion that the big Namibian Tjiuee Uanivi will be a star for Glasgow by the end of the season. A big rangy fecker with a massive engine and full of the joys. Looking forward to seeing the artificial pitch go in at Glasgow - plays to our offloading style nicely.

Should be a good league this year.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 10:48 am

I think Ulster have probably made the best signings, their match day 23 looks very impressive. Glasgow also seem to have made some interesting signings, as in bringing in good players without breaking the bank - it could be a good year for them in Europe as well as the Pro12 hopefully.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Kingshu on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 10:40 am

Last year the Pro 12 was very close, one win or lose did have a big effect, and there wasn't any one or two teams that where miles better than anyone else.

That said the table did split into a top 6, middle 3 and bottom 3.
It appears the middle 3 will have improved/will do better for this season (Ospreys, Cardiff Blues, Edinburgh)
Which should make it close between 1-9

The question marks are have the bottom 3 improved, enough so there isn't a split in the table.
But the looks of it they have improved, which is great, but I do not think they have improved enough to close up on th e28 point gap that they finished off the pace last season.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by George Carlin on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 2:02 pm

Kingshu wrote:Last year the Pro 12 was very close, one win or lose did have a big effect, and there wasn't any one or two teams that where miles better than anyone else.

That said the table did split into a top 6, middle 3 and bottom 3.
It appears the middle 3 will have improved/will do better for this season (Ospreys, Cardiff Blues, Edinburgh)
Which should make it close between 1-9

The question marks are have the bottom 3 improved, enough so there isn't a split in the table.
But the looks of it they have improved, which is great, but I do not think they have improved enough to close up on th e28 point gap that they finished off the pace last season.
I actually think that having 6 teams who are properly competitive means that this is a very good league.

In the Jeff, there were only 3 teams in the hunt for the last third of the season (Sarries, Chiefs and Wasps). Snoresville. Run

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 2:09 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:I think Ulster have probably made the best signings, their match day 23 looks very impressive.

Do you think so ? I agree that their match day 23 does look pretty impressive, but for me Scarlets have made the best signings.

Jonathan Davies
Rhys Patchell
Johnny McNicholl
Richard Smith(very underrated player)
Werner Kruger
Jonathan Evans(Dragons should have fought tooth and nail to keep him)

These are all very good signings.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Kingshu on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 9:15 am

George Carlin wrote:
Kingshu wrote:Last year the Pro 12 was very close, one win or lose did have a big effect, and there wasn't any one or two teams that where miles better than anyone else.

That said the table did split into a top 6, middle 3 and bottom 3.
It appears the middle 3 will have improved/will do better for this season (Ospreys, Cardiff Blues, Edinburgh)
Which should make it close between 1-9

The question marks are have the bottom 3 improved, enough so there isn't a split in the table.
But the looks of it they have improved, which is great, but I do not think they have improved enough to close up on th e28 point gap that they finished off the pace last season.
I actually think that having 6 teams who are properly competitive means that this is a very good league.

In the Jeff, there were only 3 teams in the hunt for the last third of the season (Sarries, Chiefs and Wasps). Snoresville. Run

I agree having 6 teams that are fighting out for top 4 was great this year it could be top 9.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 10:48 am

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I think Ulster have probably made the best signings, their match day 23 looks very impressive.

Do you think so ? I agree that their match day 23 does look pretty impressive, but for me Scarlets have made the best signings.

Jonathan Davies
Rhys Patchell
Johnny McNicholl
Richard Smith(very underrated player)
Werner Kruger
Jonathan Evans(Dragons should have fought tooth and nail to keep him)

These are all very good signings.

Richard Smith laughing, but yeah I believe it is Ulster. They're bringing in an All Black and ex-Bok.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Hazel Sapling on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 12:25 pm

Scarlets have recruited well and have an argument considering Coetzee (at least for next year) is healing up from an ACL so is more a signing for 2017-2018. I think the additions that Scarlets have made are, in combination, the best with upgrades at the back-up tighthead, starting fly half, inside centre and wing slots.

They are still behind Ulster, Leinster and Glasgow for the time being until we see how they gel. Definitely in the contest for the play-offs.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 12:50 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Richard Smith laughing

mikey, you do not go and watch Cardiff Blues, I have seen them a lot and Smith never lets the side down. He can cover wing and center and was ever present in the Wales 7's circuit. He is very underrated, as Scarlets fans will see next season.

mikey_dragon wrote:They're bringing in an All Black and ex-Bok.

Scarlets are bringing in Johnny McNicholl and Kruger.


Uslter have the better side, no doubt, they started on a better side before any signings were made, and they have strengthened as well. But for me, for overall best signings, as a collective, Scarlets have made the best recruitments, they have upgraded on a center, fly half, replacement scrum half, replacement prop, and winger.

I do not think Scarlets will struggle as much with their strength in depth as they did last year with the additions they have made.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by BamBam on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 4:53 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:They're bringing in an All Black and ex-Bok.

Scarlets are bringing in Johnny McNicholl and Kruger.


Johnny McNicholl and Werner Kruger = Charles Piutau and Marcel Coetzee

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 5:00 pm

BamBam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:They're bringing in an All Black and ex-Bok.

Scarlets are bringing in Johnny McNicholl and Kruger.


Johnny McNicholl and Werner Kruger = Charles Piutau and Marcel Coetzee

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

Give it a rest BamBam. You are testing my patience lately.OK



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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by BamBam on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 5:18 pm

Laugh Laugh Laugh

I suppose I should be terrified

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by RiscaGame on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 9:50 pm

That is very funny laughing

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:45 pm

Fair to say every team has improved their squad? The Italians look to have made some decent signings.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 8:49 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Fair to say every team has improved their squad? The Italians look to have made some decent signings.

Perhaps, but I think Glasgow's title winning squad was both stronger than last year's and this year's squad.

They were always going to struggle to replace Leone Nakarawa, Niko Matawalu and DTH Van Der Merve

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 11:16 am

BamBam and Risca, continually following me around this forum to troll me, seriously, the pair of you need to grow up. OK

You are spoiling a decent debate with your nonsense.

I will ask you both politely, please leave me alone. OK

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by RiscaGame on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 11:35 am

laughing

Or you'll threaten people again?

God forbid I read a pro 12 thread. You know I actually support a pro 12 team right? I'm not like you, who doesn't. Well in fact, you actually don't even like the competition and constantly slate the Welsh teams in it, unless it suits your agenda not to.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 11:56 am

I think it would be best if certain posters on here put each other on their foe list - it will save the constant bickering and future bans that may come about because of it.

I'm sure you all think that you are right and they are in the wrong so the foe button is the best way of making things more pleasant on here.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 12:18 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think it would be best if certain posters on here put each other on their foe list - it will save the constant bickering and future bans that may come about because of it.

I'm sure you all think that you are right and they are in the wrong so the foe button is the best way of making things more pleasant on here.

clap

I second this motion. OK

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by RiscaGame on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 12:39 pm

Rolling Eyes

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Kingshu on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 1:28 pm

Trying to guess who has improved or not

To win grand final

Leinster 2/1 = 33%
Glasgow 11/4 = 26%
Ulster 9/2 = 18%
Scarlets 7/1 = 12.5%
Munster 8/1 = 11%
Connacht 12/1 = 7.6%
Ospreys 16/1 = 5.8%
Cardiff blues 50/1 = 2%
Edinburgh 66/1 = 1.5%
Dragons 150/1 = 0.66%
Treviso 500/1 = 0.2%
Zebre 500/1 = 0.2%

Using the estimates total 110%

Looks like prediction of Leinster Glasgow, Ulster, Scarlets and Munster fighting for a top four place.
Connacht, Ospreys maybe in the mix for top four and getting European places.
Cardiff Blues and Edinburgh mid table and fighting for European places.
Dragons fighting to join top 10
Travis and zebra fighting to avoid bottom

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by profitius on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 1:48 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:Fair to say every team has improved their squad? The Italians look to have made some decent signings.

Perhaps, but I think Glasgow's title winning squad was both stronger than last year's and this year's squad.

They were always going to struggle to replace  Leone Nakarawa, Niko Matawalu and DTH Van Der Merve


They've lost some players but the key for Glasgow is how they play. They'll be there or thereabouts again.
Are Edinburgh under pressure to close the gap on Glasgow?

Leinsterfan, I'd agree that most teams do look better this season. Standouts in that regard would be Treviso but Scarlets and one or two others have recruited well.

I'll make my usual predictions thread before the season starts but thinking about it now, its going to be very difficult to predict who'll be in the top 4 or 6 in the league. Scarlets have recruited well, Munster have a highly rated new coach, Ospreys can't be written off either and Cardiff and Edinburgh can make the top 6.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 3:52 pm

Kingshu wrote:Trying to guess who has improved or not

To win grand final

Leinster 2/1 = 33%
Glasgow 11/4 = 26%
Ulster 9/2 = 18%
Scarlets 7/1 = 12.5%
Munster 8/1 = 11%
Connacht 12/1 = 7.6%
Ospreys 16/1 = 5.8%
Cardiff blues 50/1 = 2%
Edinburgh 66/1 = 1.5%
Dragons 150/1 = 0.66%
Treviso 500/1 = 0.2%
Zebre 500/1 = 0.2%

Using the estimates total 110%

Looks like prediction of Leinster Glasgow, Ulster, Scarlets and Munster fighting for a top four place.
Connacht, Ospreys maybe in the mix for top four and getting European places.
Cardiff Blues and Edinburgh mid table and fighting for European places.
Dragons fighting to join top 10
Travis and zebra fighting to avoid bottom

Very interesting odds there alright. Appears to be a definitive gap between Ospreys and Blues, a top 7 and bottom 5.
Even as a Leinster fan I wouldn't have Leinster that high. The value seems to be in Ospreys rebounded somewhat this year and also Connacht (current champions) should have better odds.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Kingshu on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 4:56 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Kingshu wrote:Trying to guess who has improved or not

To win grand final

Leinster 2/1 = 33%
Glasgow 11/4 = 26%
Ulster 9/2 = 18%
Scarlets 7/1 = 12.5%
Munster 8/1 = 11%
Connacht 12/1 = 7.6%
Ospreys 16/1 = 5.8%
Cardiff blues 50/1 = 2%
Edinburgh 66/1 = 1.5%
Dragons 150/1 = 0.66%
Treviso 500/1 = 0.2%
Zebre 500/1 = 0.2%

Using the estimates total 110%

Looks like prediction of Leinster Glasgow, Ulster, Scarlets and Munster fighting for a top four place.
Connacht, Ospreys maybe in the mix for top four and getting European places.
Cardiff Blues and Edinburgh mid table and fighting for European places.
Dragons fighting to join top 10
Travis and zebra fighting to avoid bottom

Very interesting odds there alright.  Appears to be a definitive gap between Ospreys and Blues, a top 7 and bottom 5.
Even as a Leinster fan I wouldn't have Leinster that high.  The value seems to be in Ospreys rebounded somewhat this year and also Connacht (current champions) should have better odds.

From a betting perspective where we look for value, i.e. odds are bigger than what we think they should be (called value). I.e Leinster odds 2/1 = 33% chance of winning the league, if we though they had a 50% chance (evens), we should bet on it, as the odds are higher than our estimate, 2/1 < Evns.

Leinster 2/1 = 33% Think odds are about right, it will be a close league this year, Leinster are startling with a lot of players injured and out, may be a slow start which can make it difficult.
Glasgow 11/4 = 26% Think its about right or a bit high, no bet
Ulster 9/2 = 18% Think this has value.
Scarlets 7/1 = 12.5% think odds are about right
Munster 8/1 = 11% think odds are about right
Connacht 12/1 = 7.6% think odds maybe slightly low, but not enough to make it a viable bet.
Ospreys 16/1 = 5.8% Think Ospreys have value.
Cardiff blues 50/1 = 2% Does have value, but is a long shot.
Edinburgh 66/1 = 1.5% No Point
Dragons 150/1 = 0.66% No Point
Treviso 500/1 = 0.2% No Point
Zebre 500/1 = 0.2% No Point


Bets to consider Ulster, Ospreys and outsider Cardiff Blues. While someone else may win the league, I don't think their odds make it worthwhile

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 7:39 pm

Squad sizes have changed.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by profitius on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 8:52 pm

Walesonline held a prediction pole. The results are

1 Glasgow
2 Scarlets
3 Cardiff
4 Ospreys
5 Leinster
6 Ulster
7 Munster
8 Connacht
9 Dragons
10 Edinburgh
11 Zebre
12 Treviso

Whistle
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/predict-how-guinness-pro12-table-11755469

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:12 am

profitius wrote:Walesonline held a prediction pole. The results are

1 Glasgow
2 Scarlets
3 Cardiff
4 Ospreys
5 Leinster
6 Ulster
7 Munster
8 Connacht
9 Dragons
10 Edinburgh
11 Zebre
12 Treviso

Whistle
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/predict-how-guinness-pro12-table-11755469

I'm surprised the Irish provinces are so high up the table.

Leinster still have a fairly lengthy injury list including Henshaw and O'Brien still out. Healy has joined training apparently. And defence coach Kurt McQuilkin has had to return home to NZ for family reasons.
Ulster are without Coetzee for a few months. Dave McSharry has had to retire from rugby altogether at Connacht at just 26 from concussion. Munster have lost Saili for a few months.

I reckon the Welsh regions are going to come roaring back this season after their poor showing last year.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:13 am

profitius wrote:Walesonline held a prediction pole. The results are

1 Glasgow
2 Scarlets
3 Cardiff
4 Ospreys
5 Leinster
6 Ulster
7 Munster
8 Connacht
9 Dragons
10 Edinburgh
11 Zebre
12 Treviso

Whistle
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/predict-how-guinness-pro12-table-11755469

Good grief.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by PhilBB on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:15 am

Pot Hale wrote:
I reckon the Welsh regions are going to come roaring back this season after their poor showing last year.

Sorry, what poor showing?

If you produced a league table by playing budget (i.e. salaries) then it would play out pretty much how it did last season. The anomaly being that Connacht did better because of the longer international windows but even they are now royally pumped by the IRFU's wage team.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Hazel Sapling on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:33 am

Be interesting if there was a clear salary table for total player spend. Probably not going to happen.

As for 4 Irish regions following one another I doubt it. NGD will almost certainly fall behind Edinburgh who have strengthened well in the Scarlets mould (good players brought in for key positions that were previously lacking).

I think Glasgow, Ulster and Leinster are almost dead certs for the top 4 (Glasgow will be heavily improved as they lost the most players to internationals (I think it was 21 in the end with a couple of more injured long term), Leinster the same, Ulster could do with some pack help but are still really good).

Scarlets, if they avoid injuries, are the best Welsh region for me and pre-season favourites for 4th. Connacht are around there with Osprey's, Cardiff, Munster and Edinburgh. Pick the order depending on whom you fancy.

Treviso or Zebre will win 6-8 games outside of the 2 against each other and 1 of them will finish ahead of NGD is my prediction (NGD are the only Welsh side I would support but they are really struggling to hold onto their best players or have the budget to recruit sadly; think COS will improve the Italian's COS and will start to turn a corner).

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:39 am

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
I reckon the Welsh regions are going to come roaring back this season after their poor showing last year.

Sorry, what poor showing?

If you produced a league table by playing budget (i.e. salaries) then it would play out pretty much how it did last season. The anomaly being that Connacht did better because of the longer international windows but even they are now royally pumped by the IRFU's wage team.

Budgets or spreadsheets don't play matches, players do.

Let's wait and see how things are at Christmas/New Year.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by PhilBB on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:45 am

Pot Hale wrote:

Budgets or spreadsheets don't play matches, players do.

Let's wait and see how things are at Christmas/New Year.  

Players don't get on the pitch without being paid, so budgets come first. The higher the budget, the better the player, the more strength in depth, the better the expected performance.

Therefore, the question remains. What poor showing?

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:45 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:Be interesting if there was a clear salary table for total player spend. Probably not going to happen.

As for 4 Irish regions following one another I doubt it. NGD will almost certainly fall behind Edinburgh who have strengthened well in the Scarlets mould (good players brought in for key positions that were previously lacking).

I think Glasgow, Ulster and Leinster are almost dead certs for the top 4 (Glasgow will be heavily improved as they lost the most players to internationals (I think it was 21 in the end with a couple of more injured long term), Leinster the same, Ulster could do with some pack help but are still really good).

Scarlets, if they avoid injuries, are the best Welsh region for me and pre-season favourites for 4th. Connacht are around there with Osprey's, Cardiff, Munster and Edinburgh. Pick the order depending on whom you fancy.

Treviso or Zebre will win 6-8 games outside of the 2 against each other and 1 of them will finish ahead of NGD is my prediction (NGD are the only Welsh side I would support but they are really struggling to hold onto their best players or have the budget to recruit sadly; think COS will improve the Italian's COS and will start to turn a corner).

Agree with you about Scarlets. They look promising for this season. Ospreys won't have such a poor showing as last season.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:46 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:Be interesting if there was a clear salary table for total player spend. Probably not going to happen.

As for 4 Irish regions following one another I doubt it. NGD will almost certainly fall behind Edinburgh who have strengthened well in the Scarlets mould (good players brought in for key positions that were previously lacking).

I think Glasgow, Ulster and Leinster are almost dead certs for the top 4 (Glasgow will be heavily improved as they lost the most players to internationals (I think it was 21 in the end with a couple of more injured long term), Leinster the same, Ulster could do with some pack help but are still really good).

Scarlets, if they avoid injuries, are the best Welsh region for me and pre-season favourites for 4th. Connacht are around there with Osprey's, Cardiff, Munster and Edinburgh. Pick the order depending on whom you fancy.

Treviso or Zebre will win 6-8 games outside of the 2 against each other and 1 of them will finish ahead of NGD is my prediction (NGD are the only Welsh side I would support but they are really struggling to hold onto their best players or have the budget to recruit sadly; think COS will improve the Italian's COS and will start to turn a corner).

Agree with you about Scarlets. They look promising for this season. Ospreys won't have such a poor showing as last season.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:49 am

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

Budgets or spreadsheets don't play matches, players do.

Let's wait and see how things are at Christmas/New Year.  

Players don't get on the pitch without being paid, so budgets come first. The higher the budget, the better the player, the more strength in depth, the better the expected performance.

Therefore, the question remains. What poor showing?

Yes you're absolutely right. Couldn't agree with you more.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by PhilBB on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:49 am

Pot Hale wrote:

Yes you're absolutely right.  Couldn't agree with you more.

Great.

So what poor showing?

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:56 am

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

Yes you're absolutely right.  Couldn't agree with you more.

Great.

So what poor showing?

None whatsoever. On reflection, the Welsh regions were brilliant last season given the restrictions, hardships and inequities they face every week.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Dai Llewod on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:01 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

Yes you're absolutely right.  Couldn't agree with you more.

Great.

So what poor showing?

None whatsoever.  On reflection, the Welsh regions were brilliant last season given the restrictions, hardships and inequities they face every week.  

Interesting that when called out on an inaccuracy, you resort to facetious behaviour.

This place would be alot easier to stomach if posters showed a bit of humility once in a while when they're shown up.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by PhilBB on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:02 pm

Pot Hale wrote:

So what poor showing?

None whatsoever.  On reflection, the Welsh regions were brilliant last season given the restrictions, hardships and inequities they face every week.   [/quote]

This isn't scumv, mate. If you write something, at least try to have some logic behind it.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:12 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

Yes you're absolutely right.  Couldn't agree with you more.

Great.

So what poor showing?

None whatsoever.  On reflection, the Welsh regions were brilliant last season given the restrictions, hardships and inequities they face every week.  

Interesting that when called out on an inaccuracy, you resort to facetious behaviour.

This place would be alot easier to stomach if posters showed a bit of humility once in a while when they're shown up.

What inaccuracy are you referring to?

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by PhilBB on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:14 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
What inaccuracy are you referring to?

Are you going to play silly buggers or are you going to address your comment about the alleged poor showing?

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:18 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

So what poor showing?

None whatsoever.  On reflection, the Welsh regions were brilliant last season given the restrictions, hardships and inequities they face every week.  

Dai Llewod/PhillBB wrote:
This isn't scumv, mate. If you write something, at least try to have some logic behind it.

I'm not your mate.   I'll write whatever I wish to write within forum guidelines.  I have debated with you previously on other issues.   I don't get into seeking apologies or humility from you.  
You made your argument, I agreed with it.  Don't go looking for the whipped cream with a cherry on top - you'll be disappointed.


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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:21 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
What inaccuracy are you referring to?

Are you going to play silly buggers or are you going to address your comment about the alleged poor showing?

See above.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Dai Llewod on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:27 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

Yes you're absolutely right.  Couldn't agree with you more.

Great.

So what poor showing?

None whatsoever.  On reflection, the Welsh regions were brilliant last season given the restrictions, hardships and inequities they face every week.  

Interesting that when called out on an inaccuracy, you resort to facetious behaviour.

This place would be alot easier to stomach if posters showed a bit of humility once in a while when they're shown up.

What inaccuracy are you referring to?

Your tripe about the Welsh regions poor showing. It's inline with an Andy Howell article. This is the misconception of Pro12 logic that we see time and time again. It doesn't address the relative resources of each team in the league. Misinformed posters just "expect" the Welsh pro teams to come in the top 4 or 5 of the league. Nobody would expect Brive or Pau to come in the top 4 of the Top 14, so why would you expect the welsh teams to do the same. It's just a lazy stick to beat them with. That's your inaccuracy.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:34 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

Yes you're absolutely right.  Couldn't agree with you more.

Great.

So what poor showing?

None whatsoever.  On reflection, the Welsh regions were brilliant last season given the restrictions, hardships and inequities they face every week.  

Interesting that when called out on an inaccuracy, you resort to facetious behaviour.

This place would be alot easier to stomach if posters showed a bit of humility once in a while when they're shown up.

What inaccuracy are you referring to?

Your tripe about the Welsh regions poor showing. It's inline with an Andy Howell article. This is the misconception of Pro12 logic that we see time and time again. It doesn't address the relative resources of each team in the league. Misinformed posters just "expect" the Welsh pro teams to come in the top 4 or 5 of the league. Nobody would expect Brive or Pau to come in the top 4 of the Top 14, so why would you expect the welsh teams to do the same. It's just a lazy stick to beat them with. That's your inaccuracy.

Who is Andy Howell?  Who is 'we'?

What are the league placings for the four regions over the last five years?


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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:35 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:It's just a lazy stick to beat them with.

As opposed to a really energetic stick.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

Post by Dai Llewod on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:39 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Who is Andy Howell?

A terrible excuse for a journalist that writes lazy misconceptions similar to yours above.

 Who is 'we'?

Anybody that reads the misconceptions noted above.

What are the league placings for the four regions over the last five years?

I'm sure you have the internet.

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Re: Here’s who the Pro12 clubs have signed for the 2016/17 season

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