England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

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England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 10:21 am

England 1 Alastair Cook (capt), 2 Alex Hales, 3 Joe Root, 4 James Vince, 5 Gary Ballance, 6 Jonny Bairstow (wk), 7 Moeen Ali, 8 Chris Woakes, 9 Stuart Broad, 10 Steven Finn, 11 James Anderson

Pakistan 1 Mohammad Hafeez, 2 Sami Aslam, 3 Azhar Ali, 4 Younis Khan, 5 Misbah-ul-Haq (capt), 6 Asad Shafiq, 7 Sarfraz Ahmed (wk), 8 Yasir Shah, Sohail Khan, 10 Mohammad Amir, 11 Rahat Ali


Last edited by VTR on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 10:33 am

Pakistan win the toss and elect to field.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 10:38 am

Thanks, VTR.

This thread's been up more than 15 minutes and still no dig by Gooseberry at Moeen. Patience the art of so many things to do with Test cricket. Wink

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 10:40 am

By the way, no team that has batted first has won a Test at Edgbaston since 2005. Pakistan have been looking at the history books.

Edgbaston 2005? Can't say I remember...

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 10:47 am

Duty281 wrote:Pakistan win the toss and elect to field.

Not what I would have done but I suppose the significant of that is lessened by me not being a Test captain. Do believe though that Pakistan will need to take at least two wickets in the opening session to justify the decision.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 10:58 am

Surprised imran Khan hasn't come in for Pakistan
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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 11:04 am

Interesting call from Misbah, particularly in light of his comments after the previous game where he indicated that Pakistan were much happier batting first and setting a score for the other side to chase. Still, as pointed out, history is on their side I guess. Edgbaston is usually a pretty decent cricket wicket, so should be some encouragement for the bowlers early on.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 11:06 am

Pakistan would have been skittled for sub-150 if they batted first, with this much cloud and swing.

Bowling first allows them to delay the inevitable, and perhaps land a punch or two.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 11:30 am

So, you've won the toss, bowled first, and within half-an-hour with England going at little over three runs per over you've put back a deep square leg (to both batsmen) as a run saving option? Slightly negative captaincy that...

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 11:42 am

The pitch is doing a bit. Enough in it for Pakistan to properly profit if they bowl consistently.

There we go, Hales gets a thin nick - no footwork.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 11:49 am

Cook looking good. Timing excellent. Leaving well when required. Already had a dollop of luck when he narrowly avoided chopping on.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 11:52 am

funny old morning so far, pitch seemed to do very little in the first seven overs or so, but since then the ball has been nibbling around a bit. Cook a little fortunate to survive against Rahat. Hales has been a little unfortunate in this series, he's generally got out to some cracking deliveries, but his footwork is still a bit indecisive.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 11:55 am

poor shot from Root that, England in a spot of early bother here.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 11:55 am

Root plays a poor shot and departs.

Disappointing. 48/2.

This isn't the best situation for Vince to find himself in.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:14 pm

Interesting start with the man who Pakistan didn't look like they had a clue how to bowl to out for 3 already


The pitch will probably do a bit for the whole match, as Edgbaston tends to, so 300 would likely be a competitive score

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:18 pm

Cook's got a nailed-on ton here. Playing so beautifully.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:19 pm

Is that enough to justify fielding first? Was it more out of fear of what Anderson/Broad /Woakes could do with the conditions to them that they bowled?

When you have the only decent spinner in the game its a huge call to make.

Time for Vince and Ballance to save their careers

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:22 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Pakistan win the toss and elect to field.

Not what I would have done but I suppose the significant of that is lessened by me not being a Test captain. Do believe though that Pakistan will need to take at least two wickets in the opening session to justify the decision.

Justified already then Smile

I have to say I thought the commentators were a bit quick to say the send in was a misjudgment ...Seemed to me Pakistan - Amir in particular - didn't actually bowl very well at first. Once Rahat produced a few good deliveries and Sohail settled down they began to look quite dangerous , apart from the actual wickets.
OK I think this is a pitch on which runs will be available , especially later on today : but given England's rather "front-loaded" batting lineup , and their own top order frailties , I can see why Pakistan might feel it is a reasonable choice. Shouldn't think it will be one to turn square later on , so not having Yasir bowling last may not be a big loss either.

Now whether this will make up for giving England the chance to score first depends on how they manage to deal with the rest of the England bats as the day wears on ; but I think we all agree there are some doubts over one or two of the middle order - so we shall see...

Brisk scoring rate ! The new-speed version of Cook still playing then ...

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:23 pm

Cricinfo fact of the day

14.6 : Hales' series average, 2nd lowest for an England opener in a Test series v Pakistan (min 5 innings); lowest is Moeen Ali's 14 in 2015

Cooks current average for the series is 103.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:26 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Cricinfo fact of the day

14.6 : Hales' series average, 2nd lowest for an England opener in a Test series v Pakistan (min 5 innings); lowest is Moeen Ali's 14 in 2015

Cooks current average for the series is 103.

Surely that stat just shows that England's second opener is improving vs Pakistan! Smile

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:28 pm

Duty281 wrote:Root plays a poor shot and departs.

Disappointing. 48/2.

This isn't the best situation for Vince to find himself in.

That of course is the other side to having your top player in at three : great if he gets in ; bit of a risk to the stability of the order if he comes out early...

And now Cook has gone and England are in trouble .

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:28 pm

Oh Alastair.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:31 pm

OK game changer there...the two big wickets gone. Good call to bowl first? Still cant be sure but they cant havehoped for much more than getting those two out cheaply. The other 3 pure bats are walkig wickets in any conditions for them.

Again its really an excellent opportunity for Ballance and Vince to prove what they can do after lunch ( assuming they make it that far)

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:34 pm

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Root plays a poor shot and departs.

Disappointing. 48/2.

This isn't the best situation for Vince to find himself in.

That of course is the other side to having your top player in at three : great if he gets in ; bit of a risk to the stability of the order if he comes out early...

And now Cook has gone and England are in trouble .

Thing is Root very rarely doesnt get in. His number of sub 30 scores is much lower than most other batsmen, even the greats. Thats how hes sustained an average well above 50 despite not making many centuries.

The othe roption is to bring in a morningwatchamn for Cook and Root and see England 5 down by lunch.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:37 pm

Quite a close thing that decision ...couple of millimeters further across and he's outside the line , so worth querying it. Cook had played really well so that is a very big wicket for Pakistan.

I see Vince is still happy to go for those cover drives...they always look good ; but so far have been fraught with danger for him. I guess I'd sooner he was ready to try and score than go completely passive. Will be getting plenty of balls pitched there , I fancy Smile

Hope he judges the length right.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:45 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Root plays a poor shot and departs.

Disappointing. 48/2.

This isn't the best situation for Vince to find himself in.

That of course is the other side to having your top player in at three : great if he gets in ; bit of a risk to the stability of the order if he comes out early...

And now Cook has gone and England are in trouble .

Thing is Root very rarely doesnt get in. His number of sub 30 scores is much lower than most other batsmen, even the greats. Thats how hes sustained an average well above 50 despite not making many centuries.

The othe roption is to bring in a morningwatchamn for Cook and Root and see England 5 down by lunch.

Oh I wasn't meaning to complain about the order : Root at three has more or less won me over , at least in the absence of another credible number three (not Vince or Ballance !). I agree it was the right decision ; but we have to acknowledge it comes with a risk.
The degree of risk varies with the fortunes of the later middle order ...

Shall we say , they're due Smile

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 12:46 pm

Well this is the chance for Vince/Ballance to cement a spot in the side for a bit yet
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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 1:10 pm

So Pakistan's session at 100/3

But England have scored at about 4 per over so they have at least a decent base for a score provided a couple of players can get set after lunch.

Slowish pitch but the ball did a bit ; and will probably continue to do so throughout . Which could make this quite an interesting game - and unlikely to be drawn unless the weather intervenes.

Some Pakistan fans weren't too keen on Sohail's selection , I gather...not too surprising given his previous figures. But he bowled pretty well , I thought : his pace seemed about right for the conditions , and he got the results. Rahat provided a few loose balls , but also a few excellent deliveries. Amir I thought was not quite right this morning...perhaps trying a bit too hard ? He didn't seem to have his length sorted out ; but he might regroup and be a danger after lunch.

First hour after could be rather important.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 1:14 pm

Excellent morning.

Think 325 is a good score to aim for. The ball is doing enough to excite the English seamers.

If Pakistan can maintain better consistency with line and length, shooting England out for sub-200 isn't beyond reason.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 1:17 pm

Kiss of death but Ballance has looked decent so far, and I think he's been looking more comfortable at 5 since coming back in than he was at 3 - hoping he will backup my faith with a score today...
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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 1:55 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Kiss of death but Ballance has looked decent so far, and I think he's been looking more comfortable at 5 since coming back in than he was at 3 - hoping he will backup my faith with a score today...

To be fair , Ballance can play : he has made a number of good scores , hence his highly respectable average. The trouble is he still has that weakness on off stump from his indecisive footwork and the best fast bowlers can exploit that especially early on with a newish ball. Five really ought to be his place ; and I think if he can perhaps develop a method of moving through the gears a bit quicker he might yet make it his.
The Indian tour will be a test for his ability against spin ; and he will need to do well there if England are to prosper.

The big problem looming in the future is the Australian trip - but that is a long way off yet and too soon to be worrying about : you have to concentrate on winning the series at hand.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 1:59 pm

Australia's a long way off.

England have got South Africa coming over next summer before that - revenge must be sought for the last series played over here against them.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:02 pm

What if Vince and Ballance both score hundreds? WHAT THEN
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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by jimbohammers on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:03 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Time for Vince and Ballance to save their careers

Lol

Ballance 26 years old
Vince 25 years old

'Saving their careers' bit extreme

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by jimbohammers on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:04 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:What if Vince and Ballance both score hundreds? WHAT THEN

Many keyboard warriors will be looking stupid

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:06 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:What if Vince and Ballance both score hundreds? WHAT THEN

England will win the Test.

Pakistan bowling so much rubbish in amongst the goodness - 21 boundaries already.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:16 pm

jimbohammers wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:What if Vince and Ballance both score hundreds? WHAT THEN

Many keyboard warriors will be looking stupid

I'm dining out on the Chris Woakes bandwagon forever
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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:33 pm

Vince is playing the Ian Bell role.

Get in, score some runs, and get out in the 30-50 range.

144/4.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:35 pm

No hundred for Vince , alas...

Was looking good ; but again he hasn't gone past a modest thirty- odd.

When he plays those nice shots you can see why they want to give him a good go ; but how many chances does he get before the need to get a solid number four in place forces them to look elsewhere ? Before this match I wanted him dropped while staying in the white ball squad ...he gained a little today , in my eyes. But I'm still leaning towards letting him return to his county and work on his game. Will see how the second innings goes...

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:36 pm

James Vince caught in the slips?

Well I for one am shocked
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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:41 pm

Duty281 wrote:Vince is playing the Ian Bell role.

Get in, score some runs, and get out in the 30-50 range.

144/4.

When Bell was playing well , he often got in and went on to big hundreds. They haven't looked like replacing him yet.
Think Ballance is the intended ; but he has some way to go yet.

Vince is playing the Mark Ramprakash role Smile

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:44 pm

Not really good enough from Vince. He has played 6 Tests and hasn't even scored a 50 yet, let alone a hundred. Got out when well set today. He has two chances of playing the next Test:

1) Does something unexpected in the second innings
2) He has an unconvincing second innings but England win anyway

If he's poor in the second innings of an England loss, I can't see him playing the final Test

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:54 pm

England in trouble now. The idea of valuing their wickets and not throwing the bat around at everything seems to have lasted all of one match.....

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:54 pm

No Bairstow to the rescue today Sad

Careless dismissal...just bounced a bit more than he thought I suppose ; in the form he's been in the shot was probably on.

But England innings is tottering now. I'd think they'd want 300 ; and that is a long way off at the moment.

Sohail must think its his birthday...

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 2:59 pm

VTR wrote:England in trouble now. The idea of valuing their wickets and not throwing the bat around at everything seems to have lasted all of one match.....

Only really Bairstow threw the bat though. Granted Root and Vince didn't have to play at the ones they nicked ; but you couldn't say they were going hard at it. Mostly just decent bowling from Sohail and misjudgment from the bats. And Pakistan have held their catches for a change.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 3:27 pm

Run rate has dropped away as these two try to right the ship...

Still a chance to turn this into a decent score if they can exploit the Pakistan reliance on just four bowlers. So a bit of consolidation makes sense. Moeen unusually watchful against the spinner. Ballance somewhat stuck on 49...

Overrate is pretty lousy. Could be a bit of overtime if the light holds up.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by alfie on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 3:42 pm

Atherton on the ball there : this has been a fine pressure-building spell from the Amir/Yasir pairing clap

Can the batsmen last through it to tea ?

Yes . But Ballance will have to wait for his fifty...well played nonetheless.

184/5 and another interesting session coming up : though its a bit late for me , have to work tomorrow. You chaps keep an eye on it for me , eh ?
'Night all.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 3:56 pm

141 runs needed, and England will be confident.

Anderson must be anticipating bowling with absolute relish.

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by VTR on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 4:17 pm

Gritty and vital 50 from Ballance. Hasn't looked out of place on his return to the team. Playing the Collingwood role quite nicely

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Re: England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Aug 2016, 5:41 pm

Good innings from Ballance - he doesn't look in top form, but is showing good grit and determination

Moeen also playing well here

You have to wonder how many more chances Vince will get
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