Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

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Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by Sin é on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 2:45 pm

Boudjellal's Toulon vow to contest fine for breaking Top 14 salary cap
The RCT president reacted angrily to the decision against his club.


TOULON SAY THEY will contest a fine imposed on them by the Ligue Nationale de Rugby [LNR] for breaking the Top 14′s salary cap.

The French rugby governing body yesterday announced that the three-time European champions have been fined €100,000 for exceeding the €10 million salary cap during the 2014/15 season.

Mourad Boudjellal Toulon president Boudjellal is a controversial figure. Source: Inpho/Billy Stickland

The LNR’s revelation that Toulon would be punished came after an investigation launched by the Direction Nationale d’Aide et de Contrôle de Gestion [DNACG], French rugby’s financial watchdog.

Mourad Boudjellal’s Toulon have responded by issuing a statement in which they say the club “strongly contests” the decision. In fact, Toulon claim that they were not directly informed of the fine by the LNR or DNACG.

The decision is subject to appeal, and Toulon have indicated their intention to proceed with an appeal.

The DNACG’s investigation was carried out by Deloitte, who Boudjellal called into question in a fiery response to the fine, when speaking to L’Équipe. The RCT owner suggested that Toulon were the targets of a plot by Clermont, the LNR and Deloitte.

“[This decision] blames me, even though the best-paid French players in the Top 14 are Morgan Parra and Aurélien Rougerie, two Clermont players,” Boudjellal told L’Équipe.

“And then Deloitte was the statutory auditor in this case, you know. And they are people of Michelin [the company behind Clermont] paid by the league [LNR]. I’m 1000% sure of it.”

Boudjellal also threatened that Toulon would not take part in the opening round of the new Top 14 season in two weekends’ time if the matter was not resolved to his satisfaction.

“I do not see how Toulon can start the championship,” said Boudjellal.

http://www.the42.ie/toulon-salary-cap-top-14-fine-boudjellal-2922250-Aug2016/

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by Exiledinborders on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 6:03 pm

What a first class arse Boudjellal is. He reminds me of Trump.

Whichever way the appeal goes they will start the championship.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 6:11 pm

Or forfeit the first game which will only make things worse for him.

It's nothing that we don't know already.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by Seagultaf on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 9:35 am

Every competition in sport has its rules, whilst they have to be complied with, it's the nature of sport that these are stretched and bent as far as possible to gain a competitive advantage.

Boudjellal and Toulon have been caught, so their choice is simple: Take the derisory punishment on the chin and trim their playing budget to get back within the rules, or find another competition to play in.

This would be a high risk route as they need the French Leauge to gain their European place, so they could lose all their playing income. I am sure that the English Premiership would welcome them but they have an even smaller player budget cap. So does that just leave the Southern Hemisphere competition?

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by marty2086 on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 10:06 am

Seagultaf wrote:Every competition in sport has its rules, whilst they have to be complied with, it's the nature of sport that these are stretched and bent as far as possible to gain a competitive advantage.

Boudjellal and Toulon have been caught, so their choice is simple: Take the derisory punishment on the chin and trim their playing budget to get back within the rules, or find another competition to play in.

This would be a high risk route as they need the French Leauge to gain their European place, so they could lose all their playing income. I am sure that the English Premiership would welcome them but they have an even smaller player budget cap. So does that just leave the Southern Hemisphere competition?

How would the AP welcome them? He already applied and was rejected

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 10:50 am

Is he claiming that Toulon has not in fact breached the cap, or is he recognising that it has but doesn't think the rules should apply?

A fine is the wrong punishment. They should be docked points.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by lostinwales on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 10:58 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Is he claiming that Toulon has not in fact breached the cap, or is he recognising that it has but doesn't think the rules should apply?

A fine is the wrong punishment. They should be docked points.

Absolutely. Money doesn't seem to be a problem so fining them doesn't have any impact.

The line about the new season starting in 2 weeks seems crazy too. Seems like they have only just finished the last one.


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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by marty2086 on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 10:59 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Is he claiming that Toulon has not in fact breached the cap, or is he recognising that it has but doesn't think the rules should apply?

A fine is the wrong punishment. They should be docked points.

I don't think that he's doing either, just doing what he is usually does and he's throwing his toys out of the pram

You are right though a point deduction is the right way to go, they have cheated and Im sure they gained an advantage from it. Given that the finished top of the Top 14 would they have without spending that extra money

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 12:53 pm

I think it depends on how far over the salary cap they were. A hundred grand fine suggests not very much. In AP terms a 50k overspend would equate to a 100k fine. That could be a simple administration error. That's not really points docking territory.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by munkian on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 1:03 pm

Least the French clubs seem to have actively investigated a possible breach Shocked

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by marty2086 on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 1:30 pm

I know that we were €80,000 below the salary cap, the salaries were inflated without any evidence

Been getting accounting advice from Bath and Sarries by the sounds of it

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by BamBam on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 1:33 pm

What? Announce what punishment a team has gotten for breaking a salary cap, and the degree to which it was broken??!

But, but, what about the bad impression it puts on the Top 14, France, its people ,and the Eiffel Tower???

No no, seal it up, don't release the results of your investigation and accuse anyone who thinks Toulon may have broken the salary cap of having no proof

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 1:45 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:Every competition in sport has its rules, whilst they have to be complied with, it's the nature of sport that these are stretched and bent as far as possible to gain a competitive advantage.

Boudjellal and Toulon have been caught, so their choice is simple: Take the derisory punishment on the chin and trim their playing budget to get back within the rules, or find another competition to play in.

This would be a high risk route as they need the French Leauge to gain their European place, so they could lose all their playing income. I am sure that the English Premiership would welcome them but they have an even smaller player budget cap. So does that just leave the Southern Hemisphere competition?

How would the AP welcome them? He already applied and was rejected

Yeah Saracens and Bath wouldnt be happy with another club that breaks the salary cap at will to compete with them.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by George Carlin on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 5:21 pm

What a catastrophically large bumhole that man is.

The tenet of his complaint seems to be that he doesn't fancy living in the same world as the rest of us.

Seriously - he can only challenge it on the basis that there has been an incorrect valuation and if that's been done by Deloitte on behalf of the league, then that really seems unlikely. More likely that he'd just like his day in a hearing to wear his 15,000 Euro suit and shout at his regulators, whose pesky adherence to rules really gets in the way of him doing exactly what the f#ck he wants at all times.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by yappysnap on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 4:01 pm

BamBam wrote:What? Announce what punishment a team has gotten for breaking a salary cap, and the degree to which it was broken??!

But, but, what about the bad impression it puts on the Top 14, France, its people ,and the Eiffel Tower???

No no, seal it up, don't release the results of your investigation and accuse anyone who thinks Toulon may have broken the salary cap of having no proof

Personally I can now never think of the French T14, French culture or the country as a whole in the same way. If only the authorities had done the honourable thing and kept everything under wraps, for my poor delicate feelings.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by Irish Londoner on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 9:49 am

Well at least that sort of thing would never happen here would it ? Whistle

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 9:54 am

We need to thanks Saracens for saving the World Cup and the honour of the English league by insisting no one was allowed to talk about fight club.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by beshocked on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 10:18 am

One of the best seasons for English rugby and you're still throwing out accusations of breaking the salary cap with no evidence.... sigh.

None of us knows what happened behind the scenes.

Obviously it seems like there's been an agreement between the English clubs.

If Saracens were found guilty with evidence (not just speculation) then I would say fair enough, you were right but with no proof, it's hard to have sympathy with the lynch mob.

This fine for Toulon to me shows that there are more divisions in the Top 14 than in England, certainly on the surface anyhow.

Oh and don't forget that the French cap is much higher.


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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 10:20 am

No, I'm thanking Saracens for burying it til the world cup is over. Should be being released soon?

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by beshocked on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 10:34 am

You can investigate if you want, tell us if you find any evidence.

Sometimes things are best left unsaid. Trust me I know.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 10:40 am

I don't understand beshocked? The investigation is done and they are just waiting til after the world cup in case it harms the look of the event etc. I'm sure it's going to be released any day now, they clearly do not want to cover up cheating.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by yappysnap on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:11 pm

Come on 7&1/2, Saracens won silverware so it instantly nullifies any cheating that went on before that. That's how it works.

And anyway they should be thanked, if they hadn't buried the whole story then it would have ruined the RWC and damaged English rugby...

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by beshocked on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:33 pm

Yappysnap I know you're being sarcastic but yes, English rugby would have been damaged. In terms of team performance in the RWC, Lancaster did sufficient enough damage without more being piled on.

A Quins fan is preaching about cheating..... Shocked Guess you've forgotten about Bloodgate.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by marty2086 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:47 pm

beshocked wrote:One of the best seasons for English rugby and you're still throwing out accusations of breaking the salary cap with no evidence.... sigh.

None of us knows what happened behind the scenes.

Obviously it seems like there's been an agreement between the English clubs.

If Saracens were found guilty with evidence (not just speculation) then I would say fair enough, you were right but with no proof, it's hard to have sympathy with the lynch mob.

This fine for Toulon to me shows that there are more divisions in the Top 14 than in England, certainly on the surface anyhow.

Oh and don't forget that the French cap is much higher.


Yeah its being done with no evidence

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2881134/Saracens-Bath-face-heavy-fines-point-deductions-alleged-breaches-salary-cap-regulations.html

Whistle

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:52 pm

Well said yappy, I'm sure we're all thankful they waitied until after the world cup. Beshocked have you heard when Saracens are allowing the full extent of cheating to come out?

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by yappysnap on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:55 pm

beshocked wrote: A Quins fan is preaching about cheating..... Shocked Guess you've forgotten about Bloodgate.

Bloodgate where the team involved was caught and sanctioned publically, nope couldn't forget about that as it was dealt with correctly, and not hushed up. If only we'd had enough lawyers to make it go away though eh? Think of how much we could helped English rugby.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by beshocked on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 2:25 pm

Yappysnap it's a little thing called evidence, if Saracens are eventually found guilty then I'll hold up my hands and say fair play - you were right but till then..... there's no case to answer.

To be honest the Quins punishment was very light and yet I am sure you'd want to throw the book at any alleged breaching of the salary cap.


Marty You're using the daily mail as a trustworthy source? A newspaper famed for making stories up? There's evidence of them making up stories.

Being investigated is not the same as being found guilty.


I don't think it was dealt with correctly. The media messed around with it, dragged it out, sure it was resolved but the media were the biggest winners.

No 7 & 1/2 there you go with the same old lack of evidence....You can't talk about full extent of cheating when you have nothing to support your wild claims.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by marty2086 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 2:34 pm

I used one article out of many, one that covered quite a bit of detail about the whole thing.

Whatever evidence there is, is concealed under confidentiality agreements so nothing official will ever come out

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 2:37 pm

When are the results coming out beshocked? Presumably seeing as you yourself said they held back to protect the game you weren't expecting the result to be that Saracens weren't cheating? Aren't you a bit annoyed with Saracens for burying it rather than announcing the results wre that they wren or were not cheating? this is rubling on as Saracens have buried it, your own clubs (and Baths ) fault.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by beshocked on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 2:49 pm

no 7 & 1/2 why would I know? Perhaps it needs someone like you to do a private investigation.

I don't know the details. Oh how naive, you think it's just Saracens and Bath who aren't divulging info, that's cute. There must have been an agreement with all the clubs, not just two. The biggest winner would be the media (this something I've always said). It's nice to see the media not tearing into another club (to be honest I didn't particularly enjoy the media milking Bloodgate so much).

I am not bothered to be honest, I am pleased England won the GS and English clubs did well in the European rugby Championship, English rugby is in a good position. I just don't have enough evidence to accuse clubs of allegedly breaching the cap.

If Saracens are eventually found guilty (no proof though) so be it but as of yet they are not and if they are found guilty I don't want it to drag out so long.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 2:55 pm

Well you said at the time that they were delaying to help protext the world cup; a result which found the clubs innocent wouldn't have negatively impacted on the world cup.

No club is divulging as it mean getting sued.

So you're happy that Bath and Saracens cheat as it benefits your club, and knock on effect to country. Fair enough. There is proof by the way and the investigation is done and dusted (and buried) now. Cheats prosper.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 2:58 pm

Incidentally you talk of the biggest winners but discount clubs and their fans who were outperformed and denied opportunities through cheating. Not very fair.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by beshocked on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:13 pm



Stop saying that either club has cheated when there's no proof as of yet.

Are Bath a winner? They didn't do particularly well last season.

Poor coaching and players underperforming cannot be blamed on the salary cap.

If there's proof where is it?

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:16 pm

There is proof, it has been buried never to see the light of day. it was at that point we need to accept they cheated. Don't you feel the slightest bit disappointed for the fans of the teams who were cheated? Or are you just happy your club and the your fellow fans benefited? When will Saracens and Bath allow the result to come out? Probably never, but it's ok the y did it for English rugby!

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by beshocked on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 4:02 pm

Just speculation. Why would I feel disappointed for fans when there's no evidence? There's nothing as of yet to be outraged about.

Merely those who think they know the truth but have insufficient evidence to support the claim. I am not claiming to know the truth.

There's nothing else really to say at the moment - insufficient evidence sums up how I feel.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by marty2086 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 4:09 pm

Talk about burying your head in the sand, there are numerous media reports of the details you say there is no evidence despite numerous statements outlining the evidence?

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 4:40 pm

beshocked is right though. There is NO concrete evidence of any rules being broken or any evidence being covered up. There is not one person on here who can produce this evidence, yet here you all are, on your high horses saying what you think is true.

ONLY ON 606V2. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by beshocked on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 4:50 pm

Thank you Lorddowlais.

Toulon have been found guilty and are being fined - that's different. Obviously sufficient evidence has been found.

Marty outlining the evidence? Where is it then?

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by marty2086 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 4:56 pm

I offered some and you dismissed it Rolling Eyes

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by BamBam on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 4:57 pm

Oh wow, well if Lord Bluster agrees we must all be wrong

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 4:59 pm

It was my view we should wait and see initially too. So when are the results getting released please? I think there comes a time when you ask the question why Saracens aren't releasing the results if they are innocent.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 5:00 pm

marty2086 wrote:I offered some and you dismissed it

BamBam wrote:Oh wow, well if Lord Bluster agrees we must all be wrong

Show us then. Go on. Where are the big headlines that Saracens have cheated ? Where are the big headlines of a cover up ?

You are all so convinced, back it up with actual evidence, not here say and speculation. The arrogance on this forum from some members is astonishing. There is a law in this country. Innocent until proven guilty. But you lot are judge, jury and executioner all in one.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 5:02 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:It was my view we should wait and see initially too. So when are the results getting released please? I think there comes a time when you ask the question why Saracens aren't releasing the results if they are innocent.

Why should they have to ? If Saracens were guilty, there would be a headline like the Toulon one on this thread.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 5:06 pm

There should be headline whether they were found guilty or innocent yet still we wait. You no longer believe this demonstrates clubs holding too much power anyway LD.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 5:10 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:There should be headline whether they were found guilty or innocent yet still we wait. You no longer believe this demonstrates clubs holding too much power anyway LD.

No. It is not about power. It is about the law of the land innocent until proven guilty. End of. OK

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by beshocked on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 5:11 pm

Hug clap Well said Lorddowlais.

no 7 & 1/2 I think there's a time you have to ask the question - where's the evidence that you think there is? You saying it's buried is not proof - it's just speculation.

Using a daily mail link of speculation doesn't count as evidence Marty.

It's an article about Toulon anyway and they have been found guilty and charged. They must have found sufficient evidence to do so.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 5:16 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:There should be headline whether they were found guilty or innocent yet still we wait. You no longer believe this demonstrates clubs holding too much power anyway LD.

No. It is not about power. It is about the law of the land innocent until proven guilty. End of. OK

Like I said you've changed your mind. And its presumed innocent in a court of law alas this is a forum and as its been buried I think speculation as to why is fine (and as to when this will ever see the light of day).

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 5:19 pm

beshocked wrote:Hug clap Well said Lorddowlais.

no 7 & 1/2 I think there's a time you have to ask the question - where's the evidence that you think there is? You saying it's buried is not proof - it's just speculation.

Using a daily mail link of speculation doesn't count as evidence Marty.

It's an article about Toulon anyway and they have been found guilty and charged. They must have found sufficient evidence to do so.


OK, could you just post the link to the results please beshocked. They were waiting til after the wc so as to not humiliate the sport. Should be available? If its not buried you'll easily be able to post it.

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by BamBam on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 5:19 pm

There's no proof and no headlines because big bad Nige and his boys would sue the pants off any media outlet that tried to report the results of a sealed investigation

Doesn't mean the truth isn't obvious to all, obviously not including blinkered Saracens fans and general blustering old fools

The irony of Lord Bluster demanding proof of something, given his general spouting of crap about Irish bias in the Pro12 threads is surely only lost on him

BamBam

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 5:22 pm

Come off it BamBam confidential settlements are always paid by innocent parties!

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Re: Toulon fined 100,000 for exceeding French League salary cap

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