5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 12:47 am

First topic message reminder :

The other thread is coming to an end and I think it's nice to have a new memory to take us through this year.

And with the new season starting today, what better time to refresh things and start again. The preamble of pre-season is over: 2016/17 LETS BE AVIN YA

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Post by Guest on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 5:19 pm

Born Slippy - okay.

Maybe the Man Utd players are tired - this being their third match of the week.

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Post by Ent on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 5:20 pm

That's why mata has no place in an elite side either.


Team full of terrible brain dead players.

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Post by Guest on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 5:24 pm

I miss Louis Van Gaal's antics and after match interviews. "... he cannot do that on the football pitch. He grabbed his hair and pulled his head down. Did you see? It is not allowed, only in sex masochism is it allowed ..."

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 5:27 pm

laughing

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Post by Crimey on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 5:30 pm

Biggest humiliation of Mourinho's career?

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Post by owen10ozzy on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 5:33 pm

Shows can have any manager in the world with trophies and experience to their name...but if you can't address problems in the team then same thing will occur..

Utd look horrendous defensively (against the smaller teams it can stand up)..and the midfield just hasn't been sorted for years!

Lingard?! Really...in an area where you used to have the likes of Giggs and etc..! For what they spent Pogba really was a waste of money, especially factoring in the fact they let him go for free! Just doesn't address the midfield problems they have. Less said about Fellaine the better and whilst I do think Carrick was underrated..he doesn't provide anything at all to the side apart from slowing games down and moving ball sideways (perfect fit for an England team Wink ).

Smalling...looked great in last year in a mediocre side..being shown up in this game hugely!

When you consider the vast Sums of money spent on transfers and wages (£500,000 minimum per week on Rooney/Ibra) this Utd team is an absolute shambles..plain and simple!

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Post by Ent on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 5:37 pm

Just sums it up, kante whilst effective is a clogged:destroyer he can barely play football yet he skins half our defence and scores.


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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 5:41 pm

owen10ozzy wrote:Carrick...doesn't provide anything at all to the side apart from slowing games down and moving ball sideways !

Dont think I know where to start with that

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Post by Crimey on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 5:42 pm

5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread - Page 17 Gudjoh10

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 5:43 pm

I will say that Jose does deserve time to make this his side.

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Post by Guest on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 5:55 pm

This could be the most interesting Premiership season ever:
.......... games played, goal difference, points
1  Man City ...9 11 20
2  Arsenal ....9 10 20
3  Liverpool ..9   9 20
4  Chelsea ... 9 10 19
5  Tottenham 9 . 9 19

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Post by Ent on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 6:11 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I will say that Jose does deserve time to make this his side.

Yes he should, but he Should be doing better than he has so far.

His team selection is baffling, defensively the side is crap, midfield is awfyl and there is no creativity-just crosses lumped in to ibra - it's like lvg never left.

The players embarrassed him in an important game for him, he will have learned a lot about certain players today.

Club is a mess at the minute, need to gut the squad.

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Post by Guest on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 6:40 pm

Everybody said it would be impossible to replace Alex Ferguson and they were right.  How Ferguson managed to win the 2012/2013 Premiership is difficult to work out as his players were aging and looked past it.  He had aging Ryan Giggs, Paul Scoles, Rio Ferdinand, Robbie Van Persie.  When Moyes came in he was unable to imbue the magic into the players and he really had to be given time to replace key players - but he was too lax at the beginning sacking Ferguson's back room staff to bring in his own support team.  He said he recognised the magnitude of the task facing him but said he was working towards a three to five year plan.  His signing of an overpriced Fellaini seemed an act of desperation, while giving Rooney a £300,000 a week new contract suggested he was perhaps weak minded.  LVG spent and spent and many of his signings he soon showed the door to - and now he has been replaced by Mourinho he has also spent and spent ...  It does seem Man Utd have lost their way. But it is not like ALex Ferguson has disappeared. He is still with the club to provide advice etc.

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Post by owen10ozzy on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 6:57 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
owen10ozzy wrote:Carrick...doesn't provide anything at all to the side apart from slowing games down and moving ball sideways !

Dont think I know where to start with that

Start where you like Dolph - are you telling me that had he started he would have changed any aspect of the game today?! 5 years ago when he was more mobile and tactically more in tune with the game (lest we forget he has barely played last 3 years) then perhaps..but now..not a chance. He would still have been a bystander in the Kante show (and as pointed out already much of his game was just physically shutting the door on the midfield)

Only reason I mentioned Carrick is not for criticism of him per se but because he is often the first to be thrown up despite the fact the game has moved on 5 years since he was a major influence in games and to play him requires a different outlet further up to what Utd are trying to play. Interested to see how you feel he fits and what he would bring to the side...

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Post by Crimey on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 7:09 pm

Mourinho has started his reign as Manchester United manager worse than David Moyes.

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Post by Nico the gman on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 7:16 pm

What words of wisdom will come from the Portuguese sulk after this performance.

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Post by Holymiky on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 7:30 pm

Ent wrote:Just sums it up, kante whilst effective is a clogged:destroyer he can barely play football yet he skins half our defence and scores.


This makes me laugh, he is one of the main reasons Leicester won the title last season.

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Post by Ent on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 7:36 pm

Holymiky wrote:
Ent wrote:Just sums it up, kante whilst effective is a clogged:destroyer he can barely play football yet he skins half our defence and scores.


This makes me laugh, he is one of the main reasons Leicester won the title last season.

Very effective and important but not a technical or skilful player. Shouldn't be waltzing past 3 players and scoring. Very embarrassing.

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Post by Hero on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 7:59 pm

Someone missed the 40 yard forward pass from Carrick against Fenerbache the other night then that led to one of the goals.
Pogba will come good, but it will take time and a midfield partner for him that isn't Fellaini. He was the stand out player for Juve in a midfield that contained Vidal and Pirlo, and when they both left the team still went onto win the title with him again the figurehead.
Mata an unintelligent player? I think I've heard it all now, probably the most intelligent footballer in the Premier League.


Last edited by Hero on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by GSC on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 8:14 pm

While Ent is frustrated his point on Kante is fair.

United and Jose just don't seem a match. This is more like the Chelsea of last year.
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Post by Ent on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 8:31 pm

Hero wrote:Someone missed the 40 yard forward pass from Carrick against Fenerbache the other night then that led to one of the goals.
Pogba will come good, but it will take time and a midfield partner for him that isn't Fellaini. He was the stand out player for Juve in a midfield that contained Vidal and Pirlo, and when they both left the team still went onto win the title with him again the figurehead.
Mata an unintelligent player? I think I've heard it all now, probably the most intelligent footballer in the Premier League.

Pogba is a YouTube player, he'll never come good. The guys behind him were controlling and doing the defensive work. But he'll score the odd screamer, dab, post on instagram and sell merchandise.

Mata is a genius, leaving hazard free in the box and standing in no mans land.

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Post by Hero on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 8:54 pm

Yeah all those fellow pros must have only seen him on YouTube when he was voted by them into the World Team of the Year last year.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 8:55 pm

Herrera was worse today. No interest, didnt say boo to a goose, was just there to touch it along.

Mata being responsible for Hazard there is another sign of Smalling's weakness. England's centre back was the worst player on the pitch today

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Post by Hero on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 9:00 pm

Smalling had the turning circle of a London bus today.

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Post by Ent on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 9:03 pm

Hero wrote:Yeah all those fellow pros must have only seen him on YouTube when he was voted by them into the World Team of the Year last year.

Because footballers are known for their intelligence.

Smalling was terrible today but mata and Valencia left hazard alone in the box for some unknown reason.


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Post by Hero on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 9:28 pm

Footballers are known though for playing football, I'd trust their opinion over yours on who else is a good footballer.

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Post by Fernando on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 9:39 pm

True but footballers vote for teammates & national teammates only.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 10:02 pm

So we reckon it must have been 40 votes for Pogba?

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Post by Hero on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 10:06 pm

Fernando wrote:True but footballers vote for teammates & national teammates only.

If that was the case then every international player would have pretty much the same number of votes.

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Post by Ent on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 10:09 pm

Maybe watch him play and see what you think of him instead of looking at the fifpro 11.

He's a nothing player, no substance to him. Will do flicks and score the odd spectacular goal whilst the others do the defensive and controlling work game after game season after season.

It's the modern world, no idea why he is so hyped - he's never done anything of note to warrant it.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 10:31 pm

Pogba at the moment is basically playing the same as or above some other Man United players, but gets a -2/-3 on that score in every performance cos he cost loads of money

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 10:45 pm

Just have to say a big congrats to Boro for their epic display at Arsenal.

Defensively we were mostly sound (few jittery moments) and for the first time I can remember this season we actually looked dangerous going forward. Created more and better chances than the Gunners and I reckon we were unlucky not to nick a win.

Karanka rang the changes, reverting to a 4-1-4-1 formation and giving Traore a start. Home side dominated the opening 15 minutes of each half, but Boro were equal to them for the rest of the match.

Adama Traore - what a revelation! Most dangerous player on the pitch...almost single-handedly led our attack.

Is there anything this lad can't do? He scared the Gunners defence with his pace, turned them inside out with his trickery and boy can he deliver a good cross as well.

Only thing he didn't do, in fact, was score (not for lack of trying though).

Notable mentions also to Gaston Ramirez who was also lively in the attack and Ben Gibson who was a rock in defence and even made some forays into midfield.


I think Boro proved with this display that they can hang with the best. All they need to do now is earn their right to stay up by delivering performances like this week in, week out.
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Post by GSC on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 11:18 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Pogba at the moment is basically playing the same as or above some other Man United players, but gets a -2/-3 on that score in every performance cos he cost loads of money

I mean, that's kinda fair. You expect a superstar not a squad player for that expenditure.
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Post by Fernando on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 11:28 pm

If you paid 89m for someone who plays like Youssef Mulumbu you'd be disappointed. For that kind of outlay you'd want a Griezmann,Ronaldo,Bale not someone who neglects their midfield duties and occasionally pops in a goal.

*Shirt sales is not a valid excuse - Mesut Ozil cost half of Pogba and generated more so far in his 1st season.


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Post by Born Slippy on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 12:36 am

The idea of Pogba is a Keane type player with added goal threat. That player would be worth the money. However, whilst I think he has the talent to be that player, it's highly questionable whether he has the application. Needs more discipline. He isn't a number 10 so far as I can tell.

What's happened to Mkhitaryan? I thought he was meant to be the creative genius but he didn't even make the squad today - despite Rooney's injury.

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Post by Ent on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 12:40 am

He doesn't have it in him, just jogs around waiting for someone to give him he ball so he can try a trick or shoot from 40 yards.

Dunno what's going on with mkihtaryan, he was extremely lazy in the derby defeat and hasn't featured since. He is a lovely player going forward but everyone has to close down and work hard for mourinho and he doesn't do it. I'd like to see him given a chance in the side as we have zero creativity at the moment but that would require dropping of zlatan or pogba imo.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 3:18 am

GSC wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Pogba at the moment is basically playing the same as or above some other Man United players, but gets a -2/-3 on that score in every performance cos he cost loads of money

I mean, that's kinda fair. You expect a superstar not a squad player for that expenditure.

Does it really matter? You expect him to be putting in more 8's than 6's, but that doesn't mean his 5 is a 3.

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Post by Atila on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 8:24 am

Fernando wrote:If you paid 89m for someone who plays like  Youssef Mulumbu you'd be disappointed.  For that kind of outlay you'd want a Griezmann,Ronaldo,Bale not someone who neglects their midfield duties and occasionally pops in a goal.

*Shirt sales is not a valid excuse - Mesut Ozil cost half of Pogba and generated more so far in his 1st season.

Ozil is a good example of why Pogba should be given more time to settle. Ozil received plenty of criticism when he first arrived at Arsenal. But now he seems like a good deal.

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Post by compelling and rich on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 8:53 am

carrick is one of our best forward passers, everytime he's played this season hes been our best player. we should be protecting him and rolling him out for the chelsea/liverpool games not wasting him on a Thursday night.

mourinho deserves a fair bit of criticism, schneiderlin would be a much better at screening and give protection for pogbas lack of tracking back. yet he keeps playing fellaini with him despite it not working once this season. you also telling me lingard is a better player than mkihtaryan? he plays him just because he runs around abit more? stupid

do think we have to stick with it for the time being, but i do worry that mourinho has become stuck too much in a defensive mind set. his first stint at chelsea wasnt like this, now he would have dropped robben for not tracking back!

willing to give pogba time, just hope he's got the right attitude to improve and get over this start, i have my doubts but we will see

finally, the sooner we get shaw back the better. we dont have a left sided player (majority of them are all cutting inside). and shaws getting forward is the only bit of width we get on that side

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Post by GSC on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 9:45 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
GSC wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Pogba at the moment is basically playing the same as or above some other Man United players, but gets a -2/-3 on that score in every performance cos he cost loads of money

I mean, that's kinda fair. You expect a superstar not a squad player for that expenditure.

Does it really matter? You expect him to be putting in more 8's than 6's, but that doesn't mean his 5 is a 3.

He'll always be judged against his price tag. He has greater expectations than a Herrera or Fellaini so when he underperforms he gets more criticism.
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Post by dyrewolfe on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 12:35 pm

Crimey wrote:5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread - Page 17 Gudjoh10

laughing

Excellent!
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Post by lfc91 on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 12:43 pm

Thoroughly enjoyed the weekends football.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 2:40 pm

Manchester United are a conundrum. Schneiderlin or Carrick seem totally necessary for Herrera and Pogba to work. I then think Lingard just has to go. If you're playing 3 in the middle then you don't need a workhorse wide man. Mikhitaryan and Martial are desperately needed. Mata's passing is missed too.

Ibra a flat track bully?

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Post by Ent on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 2:46 pm

I would have thought mourinho would be going for a holding midfielder, a box to box and an attacker/goal scorer the way he did at Chelsea first time round.

Schneiderlein, Herrera, pogba made sense to me but who knows what's going on.

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Post by Just John on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 2:56 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Ibra a flat track bully?

evidently in decline now. you can't even say he's been starved of service, as he's had great opportunities in both away games, a player of his supposed calibre should be putting away. no chance of him extending that one year deal as it stands, if anything, he should be benched & Rashford playing up front

exodus needs to be depay, rooney, ibra, fellaini, rojo, jones, darmian.........it's pretty ridiculous the job that needs to be done here, in terms of squad overhaul.

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Post by Hero on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 3:14 pm

I'd be looking to play longterm:

-----------Schneiderlin---------
-------Herrera------Pogba------
Mkhitaryan----------------Martial
-------------Rashford----------

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Post by Crimey on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 3:59 pm

What is actually happening with Schneiderlin?

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Post by Ent on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 4:01 pm

Banging mourinhos wife?

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Post by Just John on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 4:16 pm

Crimey wrote:What is actually happening with Schneiderlin?

Pretty happy to sit on his £100k, most likely. Must of been poor in training, to have been given such limited time. Not overly convinced he's the answer, seems it's just come to the point for United fans to go looking for answers & he seems to be next in line. Great at Southampton, but then so were many Southampton players, until they had to step up levels & were exposed.

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Post by Hero on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 4:27 pm

I'm not saying he's the perfect answer, but to accommodate Pogba into his best position (left side of a 3 man midfield) then he's the best of the current crop.

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