Cincinnati Masters

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Cincinnati Masters

Post by YvonneT on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 2:18 pm

Men's draw: http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2016/422/mds.pdf

Interesting to see how far Murray and Nadal can progress after their exertions in Rio last week. Murray looked to have a difficult opener in Karlovic but Ivo has also had a busy schedule in the US hard court season and is one game from an exit against Monaco.

Could this be the time for a new Masters winner? Can someone like Raonic or Kyrios take advantage? Or even Monfils?!

Women's draw: http://www.wtatennis.com/SEWTATour-Archive/posting/2016/1017/MDS.pdf

For the first time in a long time, the number one is in play in this tournament. Serena is out with a shoulder issue (after not entering initially to stay longer in Rio, then taking a wildcard last minute) and Kerber needs to win the title to overtake her.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 11:16 pm

Thanks for this. I'll definitely be more focused on the Olympics but I'll keen an eye on this.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 11:17 pm

Cincinatti is going to surely have its viewing figures on TV, and perhaps also its attendance, badly hurt by the clash with the second week of the Olympics.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 12:02 am

Kyrgios totals three racquets in a row after losing the first set on a tiebreak to Coric. Second set could be interesting.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by sirfredperry on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 9:10 am

Kyrgios out. Murray thru in straights. Monfils pulls out thru injury. Rafa wins in straights. Murray says courts much faster than Rio. His winning streak reaches 19 and he now plays Anderson, who beat Gasquet.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by dummy_half on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 10:05 am

sirfredperry wrote:Kyrgios out. Murray thru in straights. Monfils pulls out thru injury. Rafa wins in straights. Murray says courts much faster than Rio. His winning streak reaches 19 and he now plays Anderson, who beat Gasquet.

And (if my count is correct) 30 of the last 31 since the start of the Rome Masters in early May - the only defeat of course being the RG final. Of course, he hasn't played Novak since RG, so it would be an over-statement to say he's currently the best, but his form is certainly excellent and he has a good chance of closing the gap to #1 over the next few weeks partly because he has plenty of scope to gain compared with last year and partly because Novak has a few ?s around him presently.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 10:35 am

Shame for Monfils. Looks likely it will be Thiem v Raonic in one QF then (unless Sugita produces something extraordinary). It will be their first meeting I think. Good test for Thiem's credentials.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by YvonneT on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 10:46 am

Henman Bill wrote:Cincinatti is going to surely have its viewing figures on TV, and perhaps also its attendance, badly hurt by the clash with the second week of the Olympics.
Certainly a tough year for Cincinnati coinciding with the second week of Olympics, missing Federer, Djokovic, both Williams sisters and 2 box-office players they did have, Monfils and Kyrgios, now gone. They'll be hoping Nadal and Murray can go far, but there must be a good chance they lose or withdraw before the weekend.

Here's a strange co-incidence - Murray is aiming for his 600th tour win this evening against Kevin Anderson, who was the player he beat in March last year for his 500th win.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Guest82 on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 11:31 am

Born Slippy wrote:Shame for Monfils. Looks likely it will be Thiem v Raonic in one QF then (unless Sugita produces something extraordinary). It will be their first meeting I think. Good test for Thiem's credentials.

I watched Thiem yesterday, was grinding a bit in set 1, but played a lot better in set 2.

Got to take Raonic to beat him on a fast hardcourt though, especially as Thiem is coming back from injury.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by banbrotam on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 5:21 pm

YvonneT wrote:Here's a strange co-incidence - Murray is aiming for his 600th tour win this evening against Kevin Anderson, who was the player he beat in March last year for his 500th win.    


I think revenge, will yield his 600th win. If you remember Yvonne, it was after last years US Open, some started to ask loudly whether this was the start of his decline Wink

Mustn't be too smug though, don't think he's playing particularly well and it can all end at any time, as Mac showed us in 1984



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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 6:25 pm

Dimitrov convincingly beats Stan. Signs he may be getting back to top 10 shape?

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 7:59 pm

Rafa really struggling. Unforced errors galore and having treatment on his arm. 61 first set to Coric.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 8:43 pm

It says on the website that Thursday day time is sold out. Good result for them. If they can sell out Thursday day time then they can probably sell out the rest of the tournament you would think.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 8:46 pm

And Rafa's gone. What was he thinking jetting straight from Rio after playing singles and doubles.


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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Guest on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 8:49 pm

Coric has beaten both Nadal and Murray in the past.  Will he be the first of the next generation to win a masters or a slam?  Only Ferrer (once), Wawrinka (once), Tsonga (once) have won a masters outside of Djokovic / Murray/ Nadal/ Federer since the start of 2011.

Out of the past 51 master's titles (since start of 2011)
Djokovic: 25 wins
Nadal: 10 wins
Federer: 7 wins
Murray: 6 wins
Wawrinka: 1 win
Tsonga: 1 win
Ferrer: 1 win

ps I see that Del Potro has never won a Masters title - in fact not many people outside of the "big four" have.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Guest on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 9:01 pm

It looks like only Murray is left in Cincinnati who has previously won a Master's tournament. So either Murray wins it or there will be a someone winning a Masters tournament for the first time. Steve Johnson has beaten Tsonga in the third round - he is 26 years old so not really the "next generation" but someone who seems to be in form.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 9:54 pm

Berdych has also won a Masters. Agree though it's a great shot for a new Masters champion. 

I doubt Murray will win here. Kei just lost to Tomic and looked knackered. I can't imagine Andy is feeling great either. The only plus point for him is that Anderson, Tomic and Raonic shouldn't lead to that many long points on a quick hard court. 

The bottom half looks wide open. Unless it's Berdych, it will be a new Masters finalist. Just have a feeling it may be Grigor who comes through.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 11:18 pm

Raonic absolutely owned in the second set by Sugita. Has now taken a toilet break followed by an MTO. Going to be well over 10 minutes since the last point.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 11:26 pm

Yeah, Raonic immediately breaks at the start of the third. Literally zero redeeming features about this guy on a tennis court.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by YvonneT on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:02 am

Raonic through to the QFs to face Tomic. If he gets to the final, he overtakes Nadal & Wawrinka in the rankings, thus getting a top 4 seed at the US Open. Big opportunity for him here then, not just in terms of that first Masters title.

I'm not a fan either, BS, but I can't really think of many players who have never employed that tactic. His "previous" with the net-gate incident with Delpo I'm less forgiving about though.

Curious about how Murray will do tonight against Anderson - he's got to be shattered. Certainly not confident on him coming through that.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:17 am

Earliest rain delay of all time. Murray hit an ace  on the first point, and then I looked up and it was raining.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by summerblues on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:24 am

Henman Bill wrote:Earliest rain delay of all time. Murray hit an ace  on the first point, and then I looked up and it was raining.
Which is very nice, because I am now back from work and catch some of the match.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by summerblues on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:30 am

Murray may end up being the oldest quarterfinalist in Cincy - that would be nice for a change.

Out of the six that qualified so far, Steve Johnson at 26 is the oldest.

If Cilic beats Berdych, then the oldest quarterfinalist will come from Andy vs Kevin match.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by summerblues on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 3:40 am

Indeed, Murray is the oldest man left in the draw. Pretty futuristic line-up in the QF (it would be nicer if most of those guys were in late teens or early twenties, but at least it is not the usual suspects - Berdych/Ferrer/Tsonga/ etc etc).

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 8:30 am

Looks like Murray was playing some decent tennis last night. Bit concerning he is still feeling his shoulder though. Can't see him going much further here. 

I predict the rest of the tournament will play out as:

Murray def Tomic
Raonic def Thiem
Cilic def Coric 
Dimitrov def Johnson

Raonic def Murray
Dimitrov def Cilic

Raonic def Dimitrov

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 8:35 am

YvonneT wrote:Raonic through to the QFs to face Tomic. If he gets to the final, he overtakes Nadal & Wawrinka in the rankings, thus getting a top 4 seed at the US Open. Big opportunity for him here then, not just in terms of that first Masters title.

I'm not a fan either, BS, but I can't really think of many players who have never employed that tactic. His "previous" with the net-gate incident with Delpo I'm less forgiving about though.

Curious about how Murray will do tonight against Anderson - he's got to be shattered. Certainly not confident on him coming through that.
Taking a bathroom break after playing for an hour and then immediately having a massage when he came back is a nice new combination. Players usually choose one or the other! Agree though, not as bad as net-gate.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by YvonneT on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 8:46 am

I was mixed up on the draw in my previous post. Raonic plays Thiem in the quarters and Murray gets Tomic.

So QFs are:
Murray-Tomic
Raonic-Thiem
Cilic-Coric
Johnson-Dimitrov

The finalist from the bottom half will definitely be a first time Masters finalist. Cilic should be favourite there, especially on this surface. Today's fun fact - 3 of the 4 players left in the bottom half are coached by a former coach of Murray's (Bjorkman, Maclagan, Vallverdu).

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Guest82 on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 9:56 am

We all know how fit Murray is. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he won this.

Think Cilic should be favourite to come through bottom half. Actually think Johnson will beat Dimitrov too.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:03 am

Fun fact of the day 2

Marin Cilic first made a Masters QF in 2008, aged 19. He has made 8 Masters QF in total before this tournament. He has never reached a Masters SF.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:03 pm

No Nishikori in the "futuristic" line up. Is he the past, or the future? Has plateued in a big way since beating Djokovic in the US Open semi.

Meanwhile, big chance for Murray to collect some serious points for the rankings. As long as doesn't tire himself out for the US Open.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by banbrotam on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 4:22 pm

I think Nish has gone as far as he can. He simply doesn't have the physique / robustness to compete for slam on a consistent level

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by lydian on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 5:13 pm

I think Kei will have one more good run somewhere but he's never going to be a "tennis disruptor". His frame is too brittle for one thing.

Sadly I think Rafa has gone as far as he can too. Don't know what he was thinking going to Cincy after Rio and the injury. He must have a screw loose. Probably written off any hopes of a good run at US Open too. He's never been smart at scheduling and self-management. In fact he's pretty clueless...this is an area Federer has been infinitely better at.
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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 7:15 pm

Thiem making no impression on Raonic's serve. He's hanging on in the 2nd but currently looks like there will only be one winner.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:21 pm

I have to say Rafa seemed to have improved in recent years with scheduling. This seemed more like the kind of decision he would have taken a few years ago.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by summerblues on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 1:39 am

To me, Rafa's schedule is only problematic if his injury is not quite healed and might still flare up - in that case he should have been more careful.

But beyond that, I do not see any issues.  He has now played one full week (and a couple of matches) after having last played at RG.  Normally players play back-to-back Canada/Cincy, after having gone through Wimbledon and maybe also Halle/Queens prior to that.

If anything, Rafa's problem at the USO will be that he has underplayed this summer.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Guest on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 4:52 am

With regard to Mr Rafael Nadal - yes his scheduling in the past has been foolhardy - but it has been his pushing himself to destruction that has been his "downfall" on numerous occasions. He only seemed to have one switch which was "full on and beyond".

Here he has said he lacks "match sharpness" / "match nous" and that is what he needs heading towards the US Open. So as long as he is now more careful in terms of not overstretching himself in the actual matches he should be fine - and his 6-1 6-3 loss to Coric suggests he didn't overstretch himself physically in the match - just recognised he was tired so maybe just went through the motions and thought about what he was doing on the court without pushing his body to destruction.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Born Slippy on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 8:46 am

Murray now seems to have a stiff back, shoulder issues and a cold. He's done well to make the SF and I'd expect him to bow out now.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 12:40 pm

Born Slippy wrote:Murray now seems to have a stiff back, shoulder issues and a cold. He's done well to make the SF and I'd expect him to bow out now.

I'd heard it was a hip injury rather than his back. I'd sooner he had rested up and basked in his Rio glory and recharged his batteries for bigger challenges that lie ahead. However, if it means he keeps his winning momentum going without compromising himself too much then I will take that. The real worry is though that he'll have one week's rest after 2 weeks of intense play - almost like playing back-to-back slams if he were to win the US Open.
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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by banbrotam on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 12:54 pm

Can't work out if this is favouring or hindering Murray. He generally had a relatively poor US Open, when he's done well at here and Canada (i.e. this year Cincy and Rio)

Other than 2008, every time he's won one of these events he's had a disappointing US Open. In 2012, he got knocked out in the 3rd Round in both, who knows if that gave hime the extra energy for that 5th set.  I've always said that this Masters/Masters/US Open swing is ridiculous.

One thing in his favour, none of his main rivals are playing well. In fact, you could form a strong argument to say that both Cilic and amazingly Dimi are the men to beat 

On to tonight and actually Raonic is a nice match for Murray if he's knackered. Short rallies, I can't see him expending too much energy either way

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 1:42 pm

banbrotam wrote:Can't work out if this is favouring or hindering Murray. He generally had a relatively poor US Open, when he's done well at here and Canada (i.e. this year Cincy and Rio)

Other than 2008, every time he's won one of these events he's had a disappointing US Open. In 2012, he got knocked out in the 3rd Round in both, who knows if that gave hime the extra energy for that 5th set.  I've always said that this Masters/Masters/US Open swing is ridiculous.

One thing in his favour, none of his main rivals are playing well. In fact, you could form a strong argument to say that both Cilic and amazingly Dimi are the men to beat 

On to tonight and actually Raonic is a nice match for Murray if he's knackered. Short rallies, I can't see him expending too much energy either way

Agreed.

Andy should have prioritised better. If he had of exited early in Rio then by all means play Cincinatti but to win the Gold and then fly out hours later to play Cincinatti without no recovery time (especially considering how gruelling the Del Potro match was) is baffling. The only two reasons I can think is that he is now really targetting a shot at the No.1 spot so wants to hoover up as many points as possible whilst Djokovic has gone temporarily AWOL and he says Rio courts were much slower than those on US circuit which are closer to Flushing Meadows court speeds so wanted to acclimatize hence his participation.
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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by banbrotam on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 7:17 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
banbrotam wrote:Can't work out if this is favouring or hindering Murray. He generally had a relatively poor US Open, when he's done well at here and Canada (i.e. this year Cincy and Rio)

Other than 2008, every time he's won one of these events he's had a disappointing US Open. In 2012, he got knocked out in the 3rd Round in both, who knows if that gave hime the extra energy for that 5th set.  I've always said that this Masters/Masters/US Open swing is ridiculous.

One thing in his favour, none of his main rivals are playing well. In fact, you could form a strong argument to say that both Cilic and amazingly Dimi are the men to beat 

On to tonight and actually Raonic is a nice match for Murray if he's knackered. Short rallies, I can't see him expending too much energy either way

Agreed.

Andy should have prioritised better. If he had of exited early in Rio then by all means play Cincinatti but to win the Gold and then fly out hours later to play Cincinatti without no recovery time (especially considering how gruelling the Del Potro match was) is baffling. The only two reasons I can think is that he is now really targetting a shot at the No.1 spot so wants to hoover up as many points as possible whilst Djokovic has gone temporarily AWOL and he says Rio courts were much slower than those on US circuit which are closer to Flushing Meadows court speeds so wanted to acclimatize hence his participation.

Pretty certain, it's preparation.  Weather, courts, atmosphere is virtually identical to the last slam of the year

If he was chasing points, he'd have gone to Canada

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Danny_1982 on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 9:22 pm

Andy is looking first class this summer. He's playing some great stuff on big points, he's getting through against good players when not playing so well, and his confidence must be higher than ever.

However I can't see him taking the open. Is it 4 tournaments in 6 weeks since the start of Queens? Considering he hasn't lost a single match in that time, it's an incredible effort. But he's surely going to run out of juice towards the latter stages in New York.

I agree with the guys above, I wish he'd skipped cinci and taken a week off, then built up to the open.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 10:40 pm

Good counter arguments on Nadal. It could be argued either way but, unless you're inside his camp, impossible to say for certain.

As for Murray, it is too late to tank here. No point losing in the semi final and missing out on a title, and the majority of the ranking points and prize money just to play one less 3-set match. May as well go flat out for the title now.

Still unclear to me whether playing was the right decision though. At the end of the day, he needs a big swing in a slam to get to no 1 regardless of picking up masters points. Still, if he actually gets the full 1,000 I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here that is was a good decision to play.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by YvonneT on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 11:01 pm

Kerber beats Halep to make the final, and if she beats Pliskova, she'll be number 1.

I really don't expect Murray to beat Raonic tonight - not that he'll tank, but he's got to be really tired and although he's had 3 fairly easy matches this week, his serving stats have still been pretty poor. Someone mentioned previously about Murray's record in Masters SFs so I checked - he's lost 12, only one of which was not to Federer, Nadal or Djokovic. That was to Gasquet in August 2006 - time for a second one 10 years later.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by summerblues on Sun 21 Aug 2016, 12:40 am

Andy breaks in the first game - which included a 10-minute rain delay (hopefully the only one tonight).

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by summerblues on Sun 21 Aug 2016, 1:19 am

Andy breaks again and takes the first set comfortably 6:3.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by banbrotam on Sun 21 Aug 2016, 1:24 am

Danny_1982 wrote:Andy is looking first class this summer. He's playing some great stuff on big points, he's getting through against good players when not playing so well, and his confidence must be higher than ever.

However I can't see him taking the open. Is it 4 tournaments in 6 weeks since the start of Queens? Considering he hasn't lost a single match in that time, it's an incredible effort. But he's surely going to run out of juice towards the latter stages in New York.

I agree with the guys above, I wish he'd skipped cinci and taken a week off, then built up to the open.

I'm not that worried. I think there are so many players not at their best, any fatigue is negated by the gulf Andy appears to have right now

Incidentally, not watching the tennis right now, so no idea if my words are a little off!

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 21 Aug 2016, 1:37 am

Kerber seems to have come out of nowhere to have a shot at no 1. I guess Kerber, Muguruza, Williams, and others have been splitting the points between them.

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by summerblues on Sun 21 Aug 2016, 1:57 am

Comfortable win for Andy.  Now it definitely does not make sense for him to tank the final tomorrow Smile

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

Post by summerblues on Sun 21 Aug 2016, 1:58 am

It is raining lightly again.  Hopefully just a brief shower and Dimi vs Cilic can play.

Good luck to Dimi there!

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Re: Cincinnati Masters

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