Rugby Championship week 1

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Post by BamBam on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:11 am

First topic message reminder :

Couldn't see a thread for this so thought I'd stick one up

Date: Saturday, August 20
Venue: ANZ Stadium, Sydney
Kick-off: 20:05 local (10:05 GMT)

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Romain Poite (France), Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

Australia: 15 Israel Folau, 14 Adam Ashley-Cooper, 13 Tevita Kuridrani, 12 Matt Giteau, 11 Dane Haylett-Petty, 10 Bernard Foley, 9 Will Genia, 8 David Pocock, 7 Michael Hooper, 6 Ben McCalman, 5 Rob Simmons, 4 Kane Douglas, 3 Sekope Kepu, 2 Stephen Moore, 1 Scott Sio
Replacements: 16 Tatafu Polota-Nau, 17 James Slipper, 18 Allan Alaalatoa, 19 Dean Mumm, 20 Scott Fardy, 21 Nick Phipps, 22 Matt Toomua, 23 Rob Horne

New Zealand: 15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Malakai Fekitoa, 12 Ryan Crotty, 11 Waisake Naholo, 10 Beauden Barrett, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Kieran Read (c), 7 Sam Cane, 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Codie Taylor, 1 Wyatt Crockett
Replacements: 16 Dane Coles, 17 Kane Hames, 18 Charlie Faumuina, 19 Liam Squire, 20 Ardie Savea, 21 TJ Perenara, 22 Aaron Cruden, 23 Julian Savea


Date: Saturday, August 20
Venue: Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
Kick-off: 17:05 local (15:05 GMT)

Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Assistant Referees: Jérôme Garcès (France), Ben O’Keeffe (New Zealand)
TMO: George Ayoub (Australia)

South Africa: 15 Johan Goosen, 14 Ruan Combrinck, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Elton Jantjies, Faf de Klerk, 8 Warren Whiteley, 7 Teboho Mohoje, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Julian Redelinghuys, 2 Adriaan Strauss (c) , Tendai Mtawarira.
Replacements: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20 Jaco Kriel, 21 Rudy Paige, 22 Juan de Jongh, 23 Jesse Kriel.

Argentina: 15 Joaquín Tuculet, 14 Santiago Cordero, 13 Matías Orlando, 12 Juan Martín Hernández, 11 Manuel Montero, 10 Nicolás Sánchez, 9 Martín Landajo, 8 Facundo Isa, 7 Juan Manuel Leguizamon, 6 Pablo Matera, 5 Tomas Lavanini, 4 Matías Alemanno, 3 Ramiro Herrera, 2 Agustín Creevy, 1 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro.
Replacements: 16 Julián Montoya, 17 Felipe Arregui, 18 Enrique Pieretto, 19 Guido Petti, 20 Javier Ortega Desio, 21 Tomás Cubelli, 22 Santiago Gonzalez Iglesias, 23 Ramiro Moyano.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 8:55 am

Wallabies 10-3 down. Lineout still a mess. Adam Ashley Cooper off for a Head Injury Assessment.

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Post by englishborn on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:01 am

oh dear all blacks open the aussies up again far too easily from a set piece. Only a TMO can save them now, but does not look like a knock on. Try is given 15-6

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:04 am

Another try for NZ as the Wallaby defence lost all shape. 15-6

AAC not returning.

If Australia can keep the gap to nine before half-time, or even get something back, then that will be a decent result.

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Post by kingelderfield on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:15 am

No attack from Ozy

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:20 am

Just as Australia get back to 15-9, they get a silly yellow card before half-time.

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Post by offload on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:27 am

The Aussies have an underpowered pack, poor half backs and a week attacking midfield. They may be fronting up a bit, but the they are still poor.
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Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:30 am

Australia held on to the 15-9 scoreline but they'll still have five minutes to last with 14 men.

The All Blacks squandered a few chances around the half hour mark. In particular, they had a penalty but the hooker Coles swung his arm in the clear-out, so it was reversed.

If Australia can get back to 15 men, and put another penalty on the board, then they might start wondering whether there's a chance to pull off an upset.

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Post by kingelderfield on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:33 am

Good spoil from Ozy. They will need to keep it very simply, lineout + maul = penalty, and maybe a chance to get over the line may present itself.

AB's skill set is generally at a different level.....so how did that happen?


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Post by offload on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:48 am

Simple try form NZ, good skills, but awful defence again.
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Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:51 am

Australia held out for the yellow card period but shipped a third try just after it ended.

22-9

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Post by kingelderfield on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:58 am

From an english prspective I can't help but think how EJ et al will be thinking.....how to beat the AB's?

You have to at the very least equal their detail.

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Post by Maine man on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:58 am

How does the bonus point system work?

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Post by offload on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 10:07 am

Yes NZ are very good but can't help thinking these two matches reflect more how poor Austalia has become. Decision making and basic skill is terrible.
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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 10:10 am

Coles looking good on the wing again.

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Post by David-Douglas on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 10:42 am

offload wrote:Yes NZ are very good but can't help thinking these two matches reflect more how poor Austalia has become.  Decision making and basic skill is terrible.

Oz have gone downhill at an alarming rate since RWC15 when they gave England a thrashing and were very competitive against NZ in most of the final. How has that happened?

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 10:49 am


Apparently Hansen is very concerned that because this Australian team, and Wales are no all that competitive, the ABs have not been getting tested enough. if this carries on all of a sudden a side will ambush and the ABs wil not be able to react.

Anyway,good effort, and they did well to win the Bledisloe cup.

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Post by kingelderfield on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 10:57 am

David-Douglas wrote:
offload wrote:Yes NZ are very good but can't help thinking these two matches reflect more how poor Austalia has become.  Decision making and basic skill is terrible.

Oz have gone downhill at an alarming rate since RWC15 when they gave England a thrashing and were very competitive against NZ in most of the final. How has that happened?

NZ have moved the game on (or the game they are playing at least) with their passing and off-loading constantly moving the point of contact beyond the defense (Ozy's defense at least, how such a strategy will play out against either of South Africa's or England's rush is largely the nub of the debate - though wether anyone has the attack to beat them is another matter.)

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 10:57 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Apparently Hansen is very concerned that because this Australian team, and Wales are no all that competitive, the ABs have not been getting tested enough. if this carries on all of  a sudden a side will ambush and the ABs wil not be able to react.

Oh dear, shades of England 2003 here Rolling Eyes. Why don't you leave world rugby as planned...

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Post by kingelderfield on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 10:59 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Apparently Hansen is very concerned that because this Australian team, and Wales are no all that competitive, the ABs have not been getting tested enough. if this carries on all of  a sudden a side will ambush and the ABs wil not be able to react.

Anyway,good effort, and they did well to win the Bledisloe cup.

When are they playing Samoa again?

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 11:00 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Apparently Hansen is very concerned that because this Australian team, and Wales are no all that competitive, the ABs have not been getting tested enough. if this carries on all of  a sudden a side will ambush and the ABs wil not be able to react.

Oh dear, shades of England 2003 here Rolling Eyes. Why don't you leave world rugby as planned...


He's concerned about the period of the next couple of months not after 2019.

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 11:03 am

kingelderfield wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Apparently Hansen is very concerned that because this Australian team, and Wales are no all that competitive, the ABs have not been getting tested enough. if this carries on all of  a sudden a side will ambush and the ABs wil not be able to react.

Anyway,good effort, and they did well to win the Bledisloe cup.

When are they playing Samoa again?

I cant recall a game being scheduled.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 11:28 am

Congrats New Zealand. The offloading and relentless pressure is something else.

Kudos.
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Post by kingelderfield on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 12:03 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Congrats New Zealand.   The offloading and relentless pressure is something else.

Kudos.

clap

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 12:18 pm

offload wrote:The Aussies have an underpowered pack, poor half backs and a week attacking midfield.  They may be fronting up a bit, but the they are still poor.

More worrying for Australia is that they have no discernible game plan. The players just move the ball around with no real direction. The pack has no balance, the lineout is cack and the discipline is poor (the yellow card was complete stupidity). Chieka needs to sit down and make some changes because personnel isn't his biggest problem at the minute. Mind set and game plan first then he can tinker.

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Post by nathan on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 1:05 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
offload wrote:The Aussies have an underpowered pack, poor half backs and a week attacking midfield.  They may be fronting up a bit, but the they are still poor.

More worrying for Australia is that they have no discernible game plan. The players just move the ball around with no real direction. The pack has no balance, the lineout is cack and the discipline is poor (the yellow card was complete stupidity). Chieka needs to sit down and make some changes because personnel isn't his biggest problem at the minute. Mind set and game plan first then he can tinker.
He won't be around much longer if things don't start to change. His ref whinging certainly won't help him. Also for his sake I hope they let the yell of "Frak cheat" go and say it was directed at a player and not the ref.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 2:51 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Apparently Hansen is very concerned that because this Australian team, and Wales are no all that competitive, the ABs have not been getting tested enough. if this carries on all of  a sudden a side will ambush and the ABs wil not be able to react.

Anyway,good effort, and they did well to win the Bledisloe cup.
I'd always be happy with 29-9 against Australia, home or away, so I wouldn't want to sound too picky. However, I thought the All Blacks had Australia on toast after that first try, and was surprised they only made it to 15 points by half time. I think one of the commentators said that it looked like New Zealand might score every time they had possession, especially in the opposition half. That's how it seemed to me too.

So, I would wonder why things didn't quite click for them at that time. It certainly wasn't resolute Australian defence.

Australia will still go away from this match pretty disheartened, but it could easily have been a half-time scoreline like last week. If it had gone that way, I doubt there would have been much second half Wallaby resistance.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 4:34 pm

This is the Franks on Douglas alleged gouging incident that boiled Cheika's blood

https://twitter.com/eatsleeprugby/status/769490644440125440

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Post by nathan on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 4:58 pm

It should be dealt with but Cheika can sod off. He goes grump when ex players question the team but he thinks it's fine to question the refs in public

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Post by Poorfour on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 5:13 pm

I thought NZ were good today, but only their lineout was truly outstanding. They executed well in attack, but it was some woeful tackling that really cost Australia. They seemed to be standing off in defence and just left too many holes for NZ to go through.

On the occasions when Oz were up out of the line quickly, they did cause some problems. It will be interesting to see what problems a more aggressive defensive system might pose.

NZ were also a bit lucky with some decisions. The first try should have been disallowed for a block, and Franks was a very lucky boy to stay on the pitch.
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Post by yappysnap on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 8:13 pm

NZ were by far the better team.

It'll be interesting to see how they go up against a sterner defence, somehow I think they'll be alright tbh

Only issue I have with the game is the amount the refs seem to favour NZ, it might only be subconsciously, or not at all. But every game there seem to be these instances where a NZ player gets away with something that you think a SA or Arg player would get pinged/binned for.

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:09 pm

The trick is worry less about the ref and concentrate more on the rugby, amazing what a difference it makes when you get to the one week plus 80 minute mark.

During last nights game  cameras were trained on both the coaches boxes, mainly to broadcast the reactions when penalties are given or not given. At one stage Michael Cheika is clearly seen to be announcing "F*#k off" to a refereeing decision, meanwhile Hansen is calmly analaysing the game, his bench activity and communicating with his bench etc.

Cheika was playing the Ref, Hansen was playing the game.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:17 pm

Think thats more to the natural makeup of the men involved tbh than simply Chieka is less bothered on where to improve things.

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:18 pm

Rather magnificent try for Argentina. Could we possibly see Argentina second in this years championship

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:30 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Think thats more to the natural makeup of the men involved tbh than simply Chieka is less bothered on where to improve things.


I remember once attending a coaching seminar and the facilitator (a Provincial coach) told us how the performance of a coach on game day is a reflection of his weeks preparation prior to the game.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 9:40 pm

Is it? Alex Ferguson must have been rubbish then.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 11:05 pm

Arg won. Perhaps the NH should be a lot more concerned about the puma's these days - the SH 'big 4'.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sun 28 Aug 2016, 12:48 am

Highlights of the Puma's match:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cFqGlKa0kk

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Post by whocares on Sun 28 Aug 2016, 3:06 am

That drop goal attempt by Morne Steyn was really bad (how this guy is still selected anyway??) and they left too many points from not converting tries and penalties. That said Argentina deserved this as were the better team imo finishing with key players injured during the 2H and far from being helped by the referee...

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Post by nathan on Sun 28 Aug 2016, 4:40 pm

Liked the reply from Hansen regarding Cheika moaning about the ref. Saying that he wasn't complaining in the Scotland game.

Cheika is certainly under pressure but he needs to stop blaming external factors

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Post by yappysnap on Sun 28 Aug 2016, 10:41 pm

Good win for Argentina btw, always great to see them getting the wins

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Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 12:27 am

yappysnap wrote:Good win for Argentina btw, always great to see them getting the wins

England should be wondering about the wisdom of touring Argentina with a squad missing frontline players on Lions duty.

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Post by Poorfour on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 11:42 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Good win for Argentina btw, always great to see them getting the wins

England should be wondering about the wisdom of touring Argentina with a squad missing frontline players on Lions duty.

Maybe. But a tour of Argentina is a good test for the wider squad, and in 2001 it was the platform for building the 2003 squad. Also, England are likely to have a squad of experienced internationals left even after you take the Lions tourists away. Especially with Gatland selecting.
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Post by sensisball on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 11:51 am

Plus, France went to Argentina this summer with 2nd/3rd choice players and managed a loss in the first test and a resounding win in the second, once players from the losing barrage round of the T14 joined up.

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Post by Poorfour on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 12:48 pm

An England 2nd choice XV right now would be something like:

Marler George Hill
Launchbury Lawes
Harrison Clifford Hughes (or Robshaw, because Gatland won't pick him)
Care Burns
Slade Daly
Yarde Goode Rokoduguni

I'm not saying they'd definitely beat a full strength Argentina on tour, but they'd at least be in with a shout.
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Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 5:16 pm

sensisball wrote:Plus, France went to Argentina this summer with 2nd/3rd choice players and managed a loss in the first test and a resounding win in the second,  once players from the losing barrage round of the T14 joined up.
To me, that just reinforces the point that you shouldn't expect a win with less than your best.
Poorfour wrote:a tour of Argentina is a good test for the wider squad, and in 2001 it was the platform for building the 2003 squad.
Certainly true, but times have changed. Even as recently as 2013, when Lancaster took England to Argentina, we played a weakened Pumas side because many played with French sides, so there was an unofficial/official quid pro quo in place.

Now, however, the Pumas are near full strength in summer because the Jaguares are playing Super Rugby.

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Post by yappysnap on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 8:34 pm

We'll still learn even from losses, could show us the weaknesses in the fringe/squad players too

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Post by Poorfour on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 10:46 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Certainly true, but times have changed. Even as recently as 2013, when Lancaster took England to Argentina, we played a weakened Pumas side because many played with French sides, so there was an unofficial/official quid pro quo in place.

Now, however, the Pumas are near full strength in summer because the Jaguares are playing Super Rugby.

They're tough, that's for sure. But if you look at the notional 2nd string above, it's still a bloody good team. A bit light on experience at 10, 12 and 13 (though if Tuilagi is back in the mix then I can't see both him and Joseph touring) but otherwise it's strong across the pitch. Argentina are improving but they still play a fairly direct, physical game; match that, and they can be contained.

Prior to the summer tours, Argentina were 5th, 4 points ahead of France - they would have been expected to beat France, and in fact it was France's win that was (quite a large) upset. That lost cost them heavily, but after Saturday's excellent win, they're 7th in the World Rugby Rankings, 8 points behind England. If those positions are maintained, England at full strength would be expected to have a clear edge, even away. I think the strength in depth is sufficient that a 2nd string will still be close to parity.
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Post by George Carlin on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 10:13 am

Just reading the stats from the ABs/Wallabies game.

Sam Cane is turning into an absolute monster of a player.
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Post by munkian on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 10:32 am

If England don't beat SA in the Autumn and Wales don't beat Aus we are both going to look a bit poopie.
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