2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

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2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Dai Llewod on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 2:38 pm

Deserves it's own topic I feel.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Munchkin on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 2:39 pm

Excellent news. Looking forward to it Very Happy

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by marty2086 on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 2:42 pm

What stadium?

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Munchkin on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 2:47 pm

It's the Aviva Yahoo

42

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by marty2086 on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 2:48 pm

Pity its not Croke, would have meant a good day out for the fans of he two Irish teams that get to the final

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Hazel Sapling on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 2:50 pm

After the Irish gatecrashed Murrayfield last season, I want the Scots to do the same. More realistically a Glasgow vs any of the Irish teams would be ok.

Edit: Also they should do Swansea or Rome next year to spread the game.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 2:51 pm

marty2086 wrote:Pity its not Croke, would have meant a good day out for the fans of he two Irish teams that get to the final

Pfft. It'll be the Dragons and A.N. Other.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Munchkin on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 2:52 pm

Sure, it will still be a great day out, and I'm certain a big screen will be placed elsewhere in Dublin to accommodate all those Irish fans who can't get tickets.


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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 3:06 pm

Munchkin wrote:Sure, it will still be a great day out, and I'm certain a big screen will be placed elsewhere in Dublin to accommodate all those Irish fans who can't get tickets.


Do you think the stadium will be filled if it's Scarlets v Glasgow for example?

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Munchkin on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 3:30 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Sure, it will still be a great day out, and I'm certain a big screen will be placed elsewhere in Dublin to accommodate all those Irish fans who can't get tickets.


Do you think the stadium will be filled if it's Scarlets v Glasgow for example?  

An all Ireland final in Scotland pulled in more than 34,000. Connacht don't yet have a massive support base, and Scotland don't have a large Rugby Union following. I'm sure there would be a decent attendance at the Aviva, given that many tickets are purchased prior to knowing who will make the final.

Should PRO12 play safe just in case one of the Provinces don't make it? I think that would be bad business.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by profitius on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 3:34 pm

I think it'll be a sell out. It might not have been a sell out in Edinburgh but it looked like a great day out and good advertisment for the league.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 4:29 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Sure, it will still be a great day out, and I'm certain a big screen will be placed elsewhere in Dublin to accommodate all those Irish fans who can't get tickets.


Do you think the stadium will be filled if it's Scarlets v Glasgow for example?  

An all Ireland final in Scotland pulled in more than 34,000. Connacht don't yet have a massive support base, and Scotland don't have a large Rugby Union following. I'm sure there would be a decent attendance at the Aviva, given that many tickets are purchased prior to knowing who will make the final.

Should PRO12 play safe just in case one of the Provinces don't make it? I think that would be bad business.

"Should PRO12 play safe just in case one of the Provinces don't make it?"

Well I'd query if the PRO12 made the decision based on a risky assumption that an Irish province would be in the final.   If anything, they'd know that they'd get good travelling support from Irish fans, and it would be better to not have it in Ireland at all.  

I thought it was done by tender invitation or perhaps that only applied to the first year it happened.

I suspect the provinces will focus more on the European Cup this season and won't be able to keep their eye on the PRO12 sufficiently.  And the Welsh regions will be looking to improve on their poor showing last season.  

Another new winner of the PRO 12 would be a good thing for the league, particularly if it was Scarlets (notwithstanding their 2004 CL win.)

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Munchkin on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 4:40 pm

An Irish Province making the final is much less of an assumption than one of the Provinces not making it.

Why would it be better to not have it in Ireland at all? Sure, Irish fans travel better than others, but Irish fans will also be more likely to fill a home stadium than others.

As far as I'm aware, PRO12 still invites bids from all sides. Maybe the Regions are yet to enter a bid, although the MS may not be available at that time.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by marty2086 on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 4:47 pm

The Provinces cant take their eyes of the league because of the greater dependence on it for qualification, no point going all out in the ERCC and then not being in it a year later.

With the Welsh looking like they could put 3 teams forward to challenge the top 6 and everyone else looking like they could be stronger it could be a tough season

If you want a new winner and are discounting past wins, Leinster winning it for the 1st and in Dublin too would be like a fairytale Run

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Hazel Sapling on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 4:48 pm

Munchkin wrote:An Irish Province making the final is much less of an assumption than one of the Provinces not making it.

Why would it be better to not have it in Ireland at all? Sure, Irish fans travel better than others, but Irish fans will also be more likely to fill a home stadium than others.

As far as I'm aware, PRO12 still invites bids from all sides. Maybe the Regions are yet to enter a bid, although the Principality Millennium Stadium may not be available at that time.

I think Swansea would almost be better with the Liberty or the Cardiff City Stadium could be as Murrayfield did seem a tad too big. Either way I can't believe that the WRU would hesitate in offering to host if there was a little money in it as well as a day out for themselves.


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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 5:10 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:
Munchkin wrote:An Irish Province making the final is much less of an assumption than one of the Provinces not making it.

Why would it be better to not have it in Ireland at all? Sure, Irish fans travel better than others, but Irish fans will also be more likely to fill a home stadium than others.

As far as I'm aware, PRO12 still invites bids from all sides. Maybe the Regions are yet to enter a bid, although the Principality Millennium Stadium may not be available at that time.

I think Swansea would almost be better with the Liberty or the Cardiff City Stadium could be as Murrayfield did seem a tad too big. Either way I can't believe that the WRU would hesitate in offering to host if there was a little money in it as well as a day out for themselves.


It wasn't a union led bid process. It was a combined team/municipality bid process. So I'm assuming that it must have been a Leinster/DCC bid if there was a tender process.

The PRO12 needs to be promoted more in Wales, Scotland and Italy rather than Ireland. Irish fans will turn up to the opening of an envelope - wherever it is - if it involves an Irish team. It should have been held - imposed if necessary - on the Welsh regions this year.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by No9 on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 5:13 pm

After last years disastrous season for the Ospreys (on their standards), they will be in the knock outs this time. Get to the KOs and its anyone's guess... I'll back the Os to get to the finals this time, and look forward to a weekend in Dublin that wont cost the earth as the 6 Nation trip does.

Will any of the other Welsh regions be with them.. Maybe the Blues, they just have to start delivering.

Dragons, wish they could be there, but they aren't going to get there... Be usual heart break for the Dragons.

As for the Scarlets. I believe should be in the reckoning, but being the only Welsh competitor in this seasons European Champions Cup, I think this will be their focus and the Pro12 will be tough. Reckon this season's going to be a tough one for the Scarlets.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Munchkin on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 5:17 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:
Munchkin wrote:An Irish Province making the final is much less of an assumption than one of the Provinces not making it.

Why would it be better to not have it in Ireland at all? Sure, Irish fans travel better than others, but Irish fans will also be more likely to fill a home stadium than others.

As far as I'm aware, PRO12 still invites bids from all sides. Maybe the Regions are yet to enter a bid, although the Principality Millennium Stadium may not be available at that time.

I think Swansea would almost be better with the Liberty or the Cardiff City Stadium could be as Murrayfield did seem a tad too big. Either way I can't believe that the WRU would hesitate in offering to host if there was a little money in it as well as a day out for themselves.

MS sounds cooler Cool

PRO12 seem to be going for the big stadia now, and Liberty might not be big enough. Cardiff would be a good option though. Murrayfield wasn't filled, but still a very good attendance, and great atmosphere.

Agree on the WRU not thumbing their noses at extra cash. There must be valid reasons why the Regions are not entering bids though (assuming that they aren't).


.... PMS Very Happy


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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 5:18 pm

I read that one of the requirements of any bid was that there has to be a set number of five-star hotels. I'm pretty sure that rules out Swansea. It sure as hell rules out Newport.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Irish Londoner on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 8:44 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I read that one of the requirements of any bid was that there has to be a set number of five-star hotels. I'm pretty sure that rules out Swansea. It sure as hell rules out Newport.

Wouldn't Celtic Manor count or the other hotel (can't remember the name) where Wales train ? Also Cardiff is about half an hour away ?

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by RiscaGame on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 8:44 am

Irish Londoner wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I read that one of the requirements of any bid was that there has to be a set number of five-star hotels. I'm pretty sure that rules out Swansea. It sure as hell rules out Newport.

Wouldn't Celtic Manor count or the other hotel (can't remember the name) where Wales train ? Also Cardiff is about half an hour away ?

18k stadium is a must too? Our wee Dave Parade (8.5k) isn't quite there ha

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 12:12 pm

Plenty of room at the Celtic Manor, and Cardiff is nearby which has a few 5-star hotels - so that reason seems a bit silly. It's being announced (again) that the Liberty stadium is to be expanded.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Pot Hale on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 3:14 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Plenty of room at the Celtic Manor, and Cardiff is nearby which has a few 5-star hotels - so that reason seems a bit silly. It's being announced (again) that the Liberty stadium is to be expanded.

Agreed. The 5 star hotel bit is a complete red herring. It is not a reason for bids not to be made. Stadium capacity and financial guarantee are much more important.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Stone Motif on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 9:52 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I read that one of the requirements of any bid was that there has to be a set number of five-star hotels. I'm pretty sure that rules out Swansea. It sure as hell rules out Newport.

I can think of at least one 5 star hotel in Newport. The guy who runs it is even on the NGD board isn't he? Swansea hasn't any at all iirc

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by wolfball on Sun 21 Aug 2016, 2:56 am

I'll be there. Rarely in ireland these days, and in a Wexford wedding the weekend afterwards, so will be getting tickets regardless of who is in the final. If connacht aren't in the final, would honestly love a non-irish final, with the league being more competitive. Think it will still be well filled.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Hazel Sapling on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 10:11 am

The hotel thing can not be serious. If Cardiff can host a 6N match (and it does successfully), it can host a Pro12 final.

The PMS, an expanded Liberty and the Cardiff City stadium are the 3 main options in Wales. I quite like the idea of a 30k sell out rather than 40-45k in an 80k stadium but imagine they will go for size rather than atmosphere.

I think if Glasgow make it, I will see if I can convince any of my friends to go. Problem is they are all English...

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 10:16 am

Pot Hale wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Plenty of room at the Celtic Manor, and Cardiff is nearby which has a few 5-star hotels - so that reason seems a bit silly. It's being announced (again) that the Liberty stadium is to be expanded.

Agreed. The 5 star hotel bit is a complete red herring.  It is not a reason for bids not to be made.  Stadium capacity and financial guarantee are much more important.

If the host city having a set number of five-star hotels is a requirement, and you don't have enough five-star hotels, then it is a valid reason not to bid.

Why bid if you don't meet the requirements? For the craic?


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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Dai Llewod on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 10:17 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:The hotel thing can not be serious. If Cardiff can host a 6N match (and it does successfully), it can host a Pro12 final.


Oh it's deadly serious. Chelsea football club visit Swansea in 2 weeks time. But the same ground and venue is not good enough for the likes of Connacht in the final of the Pro12.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:09 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:The hotel thing can not be serious. If Cardiff can host a 6N match (and it does successfully), it can host a Pro12 final.


Oh it's deadly serious. Chelsea football club visit Swansea in 2 weeks time. But the same ground and venue is not good enough for the likes of Connacht in the final of the Pro12.


It's a complete farce. Since the playoffs have been brought in, the final has been outside Ireland once. People wonder why some call it the Pro'12. Rolling Eyes

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Munchkin on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:25 pm

Groundhog day Rolling Eyes

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Irish Londoner on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:25 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:The hotel thing can not be serious. If Cardiff can host a 6N match (and it does successfully), it can host a Pro12 final.


Oh it's deadly serious. Chelsea football club visit Swansea in 2 weeks time. But the same ground and venue is not good enough for the likes of Connacht in the final of the Pro12.

I should imagine that Connacht like Chelsea have very little say about the oppositions ground in terms of capacity, ticket sales and the quality of local hotels and of course like Chelsea, Connacht will play there during the season anyway.

More pertinent is the question did Swansea or any of the other regions bid for the final this time round ?

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Munchkin on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:29 pm

I doubt any of the Regions entered a bid, and it's sod all to do with 5* hotels.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Dai Llewod on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:30 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:

More pertinent is the question did Swansea or any of the other regions bid for the final this time round ?

Why aren't you reading the thread? The Ospreys could not hold it in Swansea due to the reasons noted above, as confirmed by their official supporters group. They are ineligible according to the Pro12s criteria. So are Scarlets and so are Dragons and Cardiff Blues.

The Millennium stadium could hold it, but that would presumably have to be in the format of a joint Union / pro club venture, and there is doubt whether they could have put a bid in for 2017 as the Champions League final is being held close to the Pro12 final date.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:48 pm

The 5-star hotel requirement is complete baloney. Stadium capacity and financial guarantee are two of the main criteria.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Hazel Sapling on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:50 pm

Umm LD, the final has only been available as an open bid 3 times of which Belfast, Dublin and Edinburgh have hosted.

Who can host outside of Italy: Belfast, Limerick (maybe), Dublin, Glasgow (Hampden), Edinburgh, Swansea (maybe) and Cardiff.

Of those Belfast and Edinburgh have already hosted (Edinburgh hosting Champions cup this year as well) and Cardiff are hosting the Champions League final around the same time (probably a clause somewhere about not playing rugby a week before the biggest football match of the year). Leaves Swansea and Limerick as potential choices that probably could do it but are not the easiest picks, Glasgow (using a football stadium that may be unavailable) or Dublin. If I was picking between the 4, Dublin is the favourite.

Italy should host in Rome at the Stadio Flaminio not the Olympico as they are less likely to get casual fans. If they get the 2023 RWC a 2018 or 2019 final should be in Rome (Stadio Flaminio to get the better atmosphere with a smaller crowd) and another in Milan (2023) to take advantage of the build up.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:The hotel thing can not be serious. If Cardiff can host a 6N match (and it does successfully), it can host a Pro12 final.


Oh it's deadly serious. Chelsea football club visit Swansea in 2 weeks time. But the same ground and venue is not good enough for the likes of Connacht in the final of the Pro12.


It's a complete farce. Since the playoffs have been brought in, the final has been outside Ireland once. People wonder why some call it the Pro'12. Rolling Eyes

That's not true.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Dai Llewod on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:52 pm

We get told on here that Wales should be embracing the Pro12 not disparaging it. Well it works both ways. If the Pro12 is to be popular again in Wales, then maybe the Pro12 should look at hosting the final there?

Or is that just too unreasonable?

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Dai Llewod on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:55 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:The hotel thing can not be serious. If Cardiff can host a 6N match (and it does successfully), it can host a Pro12 final.


Oh it's deadly serious. Chelsea football club visit Swansea in 2 weeks time. But the same ground and venue is not good enough for the likes of Connacht in the final of the Pro12.


It's a complete farce. Since the playoffs have been brought in, the final has been outside Ireland once. People wonder why some call it the Pro'12. Rolling Eyes

That's not true.

What year were the play offs brought in?

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:58 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:We get told on here that Wales should be embracing the Pro12 not disparaging it. Well it works both ways. If the Pro12 is to be popular again in Wales, then maybe the Pro12 should look at hosting the final there?

Or is that just too unreasonable?

No it's not unreasonable. Totally agree with this. If Welsh regions are not bidding for their own reasons, I think hosting the final should be imposed on them. Get all four clubs to pay for it if necessary and hold it in the Millennium or other suitable stadium.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:00 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:The hotel thing can not be serious. If Cardiff can host a 6N match (and it does successfully), it can host a Pro12 final.


Oh it's deadly serious. Chelsea football club visit Swansea in 2 weeks time. But the same ground and venue is not good enough for the likes of Connacht in the final of the Pro12.


It's a complete farce. Since the playoffs have been brought in, the final has been outside Ireland once. People wonder why some call it the Pro'12. Rolling Eyes

That's not true.

What year were the play offs brought in?

The internet is your friend. I'm sure you can check this out for yourself.


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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Dai Llewod on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:04 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:We get told on here that Wales should be embracing the Pro12 not disparaging it. Well it works both ways. If the Pro12 is to be popular again in Wales, then maybe the Pro12 should look at hosting the final there?

Or is that just too unreasonable?

No it's not unreasonable.   Totally agree with this.   If Welsh regions are not bidding for their own reasons, I think hosting the final should be imposed on them.  Get all four clubs to pay for it if necessary and hold it in the Millennium or other suitable stadium.

I don't think you can "impose" £100,000 of expenditure on a business!

Unfortunately, this set o criteria is just another imbalance that favours Union owned teams. 5* Hotels and minimum capacity notwithstanding, it's very unlikely an independent club will want to splash out on the upfront fees that the criteria demands. Whereas a Union has a far more healthier set of assets with which to make an advanced financial commitment. Therefore, the glorious PrO'12 final won't be heading to Welsh shores any time soon unless there is a WRU joint venture with someone in Cardiff.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:06 pm

So you should be pretty grateful to the Scottish and Irish for propping it all up then.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Kingshu on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:06 pm

It has followed the pattern that the winners Union get to host it the following year.

I don't know what the complaint is that its not in Wales, there have been 2 finals since it started not being the highest ranked team, Belfast then Edinburgh.

For the 3rd year of this its going to Dublin, the Pro 12 chiefs are trying their best to make the league a success and by having the final in Dublin it gives it the best chance of selling out and looking good.

We don't know if the WRU/Regions even submitted a bid, and on the requirements they would have be involved in drawing these up, plus we don't know if these are set in stone, or if there is flexibility, it could have been regions spin for not submitting bids, when the reality was they didn't want to take the financial risk.

So we don't know who submitted bids and why not.
It may have been the only choice,
Even if everyone did submit a bid I think the Aviva is still the best choice, not from an Irish perspective, but from a league prespective.

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Dai Llewod on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:08 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:The hotel thing can not be serious. If Cardiff can host a 6N match (and it does successfully), it can host a Pro12 final.


Oh it's deadly serious. Chelsea football club visit Swansea in 2 weeks time. But the same ground and venue is not good enough for the likes of Connacht in the final of the Pro12.


It's a complete farce. Since the playoffs have been brought in, the final has been outside Ireland once. People wonder why some call it the Pro'12. Rolling Eyes

That's not true.

What year were the play offs brought in?

The internet is your friend.  I'm sure you can check this out for yourself.  


2009/10 The Pro12 site seems to indicate. Final venues:

2009/10 - IRFU
2010/11 - IRFU
2011/12 - IRFU
2012/13 - IRFU
2013/14 - IRFU
2014/15 - IRFU
2015/16 - SRU
2016/17 - IRFU

Have I missed a year?

Dai Llewod

Posts : 218
Join date : 2016-06-03

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by marty2086 on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:10 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:We get told on here that Wales should be embracing the Pro12 not disparaging it. Well it works both ways. If the Pro12 is to be popular again in Wales, then maybe the Pro12 should look at hosting the final there?

Or is that just too unreasonable?

No it's not unreasonable.   Totally agree with this.   If Welsh regions are not bidding for their own reasons, I think hosting the final should be imposed on them.  Get all four clubs to pay for it if necessary and hold it in the Millennium or other suitable stadium.

I don't think you can "impose" £100,000 of expenditure on a business!

Unfortunately, this set o criteria is just another imbalance that favours Union owned teams. 5* Hotels and minimum capacity notwithstanding, it's very unlikely an independent club will want to splash out on the upfront fees that the criteria demands. Whereas a Union has a far more healthier set of assets with which to make an advanced financial commitment. Therefore, the glorious PrO'12 final won't be heading to Welsh shores any time soon unless there is a WRU joint venture with someone in Cardiff.

Its not just the clubs involved its the local authorities, you also forget that the WRU could put money forward to support a bid meaning a private club actually has greater resources

marty2086

Posts : 4857
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 30
Location : Belfast

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by marty2086 on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:12 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:The hotel thing can not be serious. If Cardiff can host a 6N match (and it does successfully), it can host a Pro12 final.


Oh it's deadly serious. Chelsea football club visit Swansea in 2 weeks time. But the same ground and venue is not good enough for the likes of Connacht in the final of the Pro12.


It's a complete farce. Since the playoffs have been brought in, the final has been outside Ireland once. People wonder why some call it the Pro'12. Rolling Eyes

That's not true.

What year were the play offs brought in?

The internet is your friend.  I'm sure you can check this out for yourself.  


2009/10  The Pro12 site seems to indicate. Final venues:

2009/10 - IRFU
2010/11 - IRFU
2011/12 - IRFU
2012/13 - IRFU
2013/14 - IRFU
2014/15 - IRFU
2015/16 - SRU
2016/17 - IRFU

Have I missed a year?

Except that only the last 3 years have been a chosen host, previous years was done on league position

marty2086

Posts : 4857
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 30
Location : Belfast

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:12 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:We get told on here that Wales should be embracing the Pro12 not disparaging it. Well it works both ways. If the Pro12 is to be popular again in Wales, then maybe the Pro12 should look at hosting the final there?

Or is that just too unreasonable?

No it's not unreasonable.   Totally agree with this.   If Welsh regions are not bidding for their own reasons, I think hosting the final should be imposed on them.  Get all four clubs to pay for it if necessary and hold it in the Millennium or other suitable stadium.

I don't think you can "impose" £100,000 of expenditure on a business!

Unfortunately, this set o criteria is just another imbalance that favours Union owned teams. 5* Hotels and minimum capacity notwithstanding, it's very unlikely an independent club will want to splash out on the upfront fees that the criteria demands. Whereas a Union has a far more healthier set of assets with which to make an advanced financial commitment. Therefore, the glorious PrO'12 final won't be heading to Welsh shores any time soon unless there is a WRU joint venture with someone in Cardiff.

Eh yes you can impose it on a business. If they want to host it, then a £100k financial guarantee is required. It's not upfront. Split between four clubs, and the municipal partner, this is not a great amount of money for the potential return. In fact, I'd say it would be a good way to lessen any potential risk involved. The guarantees are provided by the bidding entities i.e. Club and municipal body. Thus Ulster and Belfast City Council or Glasgow and Glasgow authority. The unions involved have nothing to do with it.

Pot Hale

Posts : 4645
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 54
Location : Dublhkining

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Munchkin on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:13 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:The hotel thing can not be serious. If Cardiff can host a 6N match (and it does successfully), it can host a Pro12 final.


Oh it's deadly serious. Chelsea football club visit Swansea in 2 weeks time. But the same ground and venue is not good enough for the likes of Connacht in the final of the Pro12.


It's a complete farce. Since the playoffs have been brought in, the final has been outside Ireland once. People wonder why some call it the Pro'12. Rolling Eyes

That's not true.

What year were the play offs brought in?

The internet is your friend.  I'm sure you can check this out for yourself.  


2009/10  The Pro12 site seems to indicate. Final venues:

2009/10 - IRFU
2010/11 - IRFU
2011/12 - IRFU
2012/13 - IRFU
2013/14 - IRFU
2014/15 - IRFU
2015/16 - SRU
2016/17 - IRFU

Have I missed a year?

Laugh

Munchkin

Posts : 6650
Join date : 2012-11-10

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Dai Llewod on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:16 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:We get told on here that Wales should be embracing the Pro12 not disparaging it. Well it works both ways. If the Pro12 is to be popular again in Wales, then maybe the Pro12 should look at hosting the final there?

Or is that just too unreasonable?

No it's not unreasonable.   Totally agree with this.   If Welsh regions are not bidding for their own reasons, I think hosting the final should be imposed on them.  Get all four clubs to pay for it if necessary and hold it in the Millennium or other suitable stadium.

I don't think you can "impose" £100,000 of expenditure on a business!

Unfortunately, this set o criteria is just another imbalance that favours Union owned teams. 5* Hotels and minimum capacity notwithstanding, it's very unlikely an independent club will want to splash out on the upfront fees that the criteria demands. Whereas a Union has a far more healthier set of assets with which to make an advanced financial commitment. Therefore, the glorious PrO'12 final won't be heading to Welsh shores any time soon unless there is a WRU joint venture with someone in Cardiff.



Eh yes you can impose it on a business.   If they want to host it, then a £100k financial guarantee is required.  It's not upfront.  Split between four clubs, and the municipal partner, this is not a great amount of money for the potential return.  In fact, I'd say it would be a good way to lessen any potential risk involved.   The guarantees are provided by the bidding entities i.e. Club and municipal body.  Thus Ulster and Belfast City Council or Glasgow and Glasgow authority.  The unions involved have nothing to do with it.  

That's not "imposing the final on Welsh teams" like you said. That's giving them a choice whether to host it. Although at the moment they don't have a choice as they don't meet the criteria.

Dai Llewod

Posts : 218
Join date : 2016-06-03

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

Post by Dai Llewod on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:16 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:The hotel thing can not be serious. If Cardiff can host a 6N match (and it does successfully), it can host a Pro12 final.


Oh it's deadly serious. Chelsea football club visit Swansea in 2 weeks time. But the same ground and venue is not good enough for the likes of Connacht in the final of the Pro12.


It's a complete farce. Since the playoffs have been brought in, the final has been outside Ireland once. People wonder why some call it the Pro'12. Rolling Eyes

That's not true.

What year were the play offs brought in?

The internet is your friend.  I'm sure you can check this out for yourself.  


2009/10  The Pro12 site seems to indicate. Final venues:

2009/10 - IRFU
2010/11 - IRFU
2011/12 - IRFU
2012/13 - IRFU
2013/14 - IRFU
2014/15 - IRFU
2015/16 - SRU
2016/17 - IRFU

Have I missed a year?

Except that only the last 3 years have been a chosen host, previous years was done on league position

What's that got to do with Lord Dowlais' comment?

Dai Llewod

Posts : 218
Join date : 2016-06-03

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Re: 2016/17 Pro12 Final to be held in Dublin

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