Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

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Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by Dai Llewod on Tue 23 Aug 2016, 6:39 pm

First topic message reminder :

A good move by PRO12, one which is to be applauded.


Martin Anayi:
“Ultimately, if you are listening to a match on television and you hear an Irish TMO speaking at a match in Ireland, as happened with Connacht versus the Ospreys, you are going to to think they are biased, even though we know they are not.”

WalesOnline.

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by Munchkin on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:14 pm

wolfball wrote:Bias and credibility are different but connected concepts. You remove bias (perceived or otherwise) to increase credibility. The connection between such lofty concepts is difficult it seems.

LD. You play the victim card every bloody day. Stop whinging. And the rest, just foe list each other, its the same argument every day, and ye keep acting like someone's mind will be changed. It won't.

The entire context of neutral TMO's was one of the perception of bias which is damaging to the credibility of the league.

No, I won't foe him, or anyone else. If he spouts nonsense I will challenge it.

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:18 pm

"No, I won't foe him, or anyone else. If he spouts nonsense I will challenge it."

You are going to have a lot of challenging to do Smile

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:20 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Munchkin. You are ruining this forum.

Wrong, you and your sidekicks already ruined it.

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by Munchkin on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:21 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:"No, I won't foe him, or anyone else. If he spouts nonsense I will challenge it."

You are going to have a lot of challenging to do Smile

Thankfully I'm not alone Very Happy

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by wolfball on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:23 pm

Munchkin wrote:
wolfball wrote:Bias and credibility are different but connected concepts. You remove bias (perceived or otherwise) to increase credibility. The connection between such lofty concepts is difficult it seems.

LD. You play the victim card every bloody day. Stop whinging. And the rest, just foe list each other, its the same argument every day, and ye keep acting like someone's mind will be changed. It won't.

The entire context of neutral TMO's was one of the perception of bias which is damaging to the credibility of the league.

No, I won't foe him, or anyone else. If he spouts nonsense I will challenge it.


Yep challenge is great. But just challenge and then engage with someone more constructive. If your challenge is met by the exact same old argument, then you've already won the internet. And then all of us can have a nice chat. Hug angel

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by Sin é on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:27 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:If its not about bias then whats it about?

It's about the credibility of the league. The fact that Martin Anayi has even had to address these issues proves that it affects the credibility of the league, lets not pretend he is doing this too keep the Welsh happy. The fact I can say, "It's not fair to have refs AND teams all employed by the same organisation" as a fact is affecting the league.

You will always get bias calls. But the fact that referees in our league are under the same employment as the teams they are impartial to does raise a topic of discussion and I am sorry to tell you, THAT IS NOT JUST IN MY HEAD.

Martin Anayi has said openly that they are listening to the Welsh fans (not the Irish, Scots or Italian), just the Welsh fans. He said that they are trying to address all the Welsh fan's complaints (like no Sunday games), but no mention of Munster and their huge problem with Friday night games and we don't even know what problems the Italian teams have.

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by Munchkin on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:29 pm

wolfball wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
wolfball wrote:Bias and credibility are different but connected concepts. You remove bias (perceived or otherwise) to increase credibility. The connection between such lofty concepts is difficult it seems.

LD. You play the victim card every bloody day. Stop whinging. And the rest, just foe list each other, its the same argument every day, and ye keep acting like someone's mind will be changed. It won't.

The entire context of neutral TMO's was one of the perception of bias which is damaging to the credibility of the league.

No, I won't foe him, or anyone else. If he spouts nonsense I will challenge it.


Yep challenge is great. But just challenge and then engage with someone more constructive. If your challenge is met by the exact same old argument, then you've already won the internet. And then all of us can have a nice chat. Hug angel

That's sounds far too civilised for me o0. Maybe it's because I actually enjoy conspiracy theories that I persist. I do appreciate the rational among us helps keep me sane though Very Happy

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by wolfball on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:31 pm

Munchkin wrote:
wolfball wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
wolfball wrote:Bias and credibility are different but connected concepts. You remove bias (perceived or otherwise) to increase credibility. The connection between such lofty concepts is difficult it seems.

LD. You play the victim card every bloody day. Stop whinging. And the rest, just foe list each other, its the same argument every day, and ye keep acting like someone's mind will be changed. It won't.

The entire context of neutral TMO's was one of the perception of bias which is damaging to the credibility of the league.

No, I won't foe him, or anyone else. If he spouts nonsense I will challenge it.


Yep challenge is great. But just challenge and then engage with someone more constructive. If your challenge is met by the exact same old argument, then you've already won the internet. And then all of us can have a nice chat. Hug angel

That's sounds far too civilised for me o0. Maybe it's because I actually enjoy conspiracy theories that I persist. I do appreciate the rational among us helps keep me sane though Very Happy

Well then, can we finally get to the crucial topic of whether Anayi was on the grassy knoll? Phil? Chunky? Or was it only self-hating irishmen who shot JFK? Cool

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by Sin é on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:32 pm

marty2086 wrote:It was Garrett Fitzgerald, hes CEO of Munster not the Irish provinces and hes not exactly a man who can be listened to considering he seems out of his depth in the job.

I disagree with that comment. Garrett Fitz has been Munster's CEO from the start and deserves some credit for building it into one of the biggest brands in world rugby.

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:38 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Look boys, stop trying to be clever.

Credibility does not mean bias.

Martin Anayi must be thinking along the same lines as me, we both agree there is no bias, but we still see a problem. It is just certain Irish members on here who cannot debate and would rather try and win the internet.

cred·i·bil·i·ty
ˌkredəˈbilədē/
noun
the quality of being trusted and believed in.
"the government's loss of credibility"
synonyms: trustworthiness, reliability, dependability, integrity; reputation, status
"does he possess the moral credibility the party is looking for?"


The bits in BOLD.

The fact that union controlled officials and teams affects the cred·i·bil·i·ty of our league is the problem for me and Mr Anayi.

So why would it affect the trust shown to the league if there is no bias?

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by marty2086 on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:55 pm

Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It was Garrett Fitzgerald, hes CEO of Munster not the Irish provinces and hes not exactly a man who can be listened to considering he seems out of his depth in the job.

I disagree with that comment. Garrett Fitz has been Munster's CEO from the start and deserves some credit for building it into one of the biggest brands in world rugby.

Sin, the problem is was that brand growth because of the success or his and his teams efforts?
Maybe brand building is his forte but when success waned everything unravelled

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by Stone Motif on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 3:15 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:

What I think frustrates some posters on here is that the anti-PRO12 Welsh posters never seem to offer any constructive or realistic suggestions as to how things can be improved.

.

But there is a reason for that isn't there. The reason is that it is impossible to improve the Celtic League to the standard that is required. The money that is needed to keep Welsh, Irish and Scottish domestic rugby in touching distance with the French and English is not attainable without the French and/or English themselves.

So since the one thing we all agree on is that the English have no plans whatsoever to agree to that, what is the way forward ? Do we resign ourselves to being the poor relations and try and make the best of that or do we sit in our corners and hope that it will all go away?

If the Welsh get such a bad deal from the PRO12 why don't they just declare UDI, dissolve the regions and go back to a Welsh league system ? And if the Welsh dislike the PRO12 so much why is there a constant clamour for a reformed Valleys team to be created to join it ?

It sometimes seems that there are lots of underlying issues in Welsh domestic rugby, whether that's lack of engagement with the region clubs, "disnefranchisement", the lack of a Valleys team, the way money is dished out, what the private club owners are spending or not spending money on, the state of the semi-pro game in the Welsh leagues, the governance of the WRU, etc. that seem to get played out in the context of the PRO12 as a deflection for having a serious look inwards at whats going on in Wales.

1. No choice I'm afraid.
2. Lots of people in Wales are thick as mince with an overblown sense of entitlement.
3. Correct. But the stench of Roger still permeates.

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by Sin é on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 3:25 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It was Garrett Fitzgerald, hes CEO of Munster not the Irish provinces and hes not exactly a man who can be listened to considering he seems out of his depth in the job.

I disagree with that comment. Garrett Fitz has been Munster's CEO from the start and deserves some credit for building it into one of the biggest brands in world rugby.

Sin, the problem is was that brand growth because of the success or his and his teams efforts?
Maybe brand building is his forte but when success waned everything unravelled  

Has everything unravelled? Even without recent success, its got big pulling power (for example, Erasmus). Its got two stadia and about to open a brand new training centre, the same jersey sponsor (adidas as all NZ teams). How many clubs have managed to do that in recent times? Saracens has huge debt for example, even with all their success. So Munster has had a bad year or two and has to operate in an area that has had huge economic challenges over the last few years. Still one of the best known and supported clubs in the world.

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by RiscaGame on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 3:33 pm

wolfball wrote:Bias and credibility are different but connected concepts. You remove bias (perceived or otherwise) to increase credibility. The connection between such lofty concepts is difficult it seems.

LD. You play the victim card every bloody day. Stop whinging. And the rest, just foe list each other, its the same argument every day, and ye keep acting like someone's mind will be changed. It won't.

Good second part to your post

Irish Londoner wrote:If the Welsh get such a bad deal from the PRO12 why don't they just declare UDI, dissolve the regions and go back to a Welsh league system ? And if the Welsh dislike the PRO12 so much why is there a constant clamour for a reformed Valleys team to be created to join it ?

It sometimes seems that there are lots of underlying issues in Welsh domestic rugby, whether that's lack of engagement with the region clubs, "disnefranchisement", the lack of a Valleys team, the way money is dished out, what the private club owners are spending or not spending money on, the state of the semi-pro game in the Welsh leagues, the governance of the WRU, etc. that seem to get played out in the context of the PRO12 as a deflection for having a serious look inwards at whats going on in Wales.

What constant clamour for a Valleys team? A couple of Twitter morons, including an idiot of an MP?

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by marty2086 on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 3:36 pm

Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It was Garrett Fitzgerald, hes CEO of Munster not the Irish provinces and hes not exactly a man who can be listened to considering he seems out of his depth in the job.

I disagree with that comment. Garrett Fitz has been Munster's CEO from the start and deserves some credit for building it into one of the biggest brands in world rugby.

Sin, the problem is was that brand growth because of the success or his and his teams efforts?
Maybe brand building is his forte but when success waned everything unravelled  

Has everything unravelled? Even without recent success, its got big pulling power (for example, Erasmus). Its got two stadia and about to open a brand new training centre, the same jersey sponsor (adidas as all NZ teams). How many clubs have managed to do that in recent times? Saracens has huge debt for example, even with all their success. So Munster has had a bad year or two and has to operate in an area that has had huge economic challenges over the last few years. Still one of the best known and supported clubs in the world.

It has in the sense that fans have deserted them and they are banking on on field success to get them out of a financial hole

Erasmus is coming in because they made a mess of the coaching ticket over the last 3-4 years, hes in a no lose situation. If he succeeds hes a god in Munster and can right his own ticket as to what he does next, he fails and he tried to save a sinking ship.

The new training centre comes after having two decades of the squad training apart most of the time, that's hardly a job well done?

My biggest problem with Fitzgerald is that he signed up to a loan that he was in a rush to pay back that was dependent on ticket sales and league position not factoring in a worse case scenario, to me that's just lunacy

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 4:07 pm

This is the last time I post on this topic, it really is sad that even though I think that all these changes are good for the league, the usual trolls will still try and find a way to turn things into a peeing match.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by Munchkin on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 4:10 pm

wolfball wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
wolfball wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
wolfball wrote:Bias and credibility are different but connected concepts. You remove bias (perceived or otherwise) to increase credibility. The connection between such lofty concepts is difficult it seems.

LD. You play the victim card every bloody day. Stop whinging. And the rest, just foe list each other, its the same argument every day, and ye keep acting like someone's mind will be changed. It won't.

The entire context of neutral TMO's was one of the perception of bias which is damaging to the credibility of the league.

No, I won't foe him, or anyone else. If he spouts nonsense I will challenge it.


Yep challenge is great. But just challenge and then engage with someone more constructive. If your challenge is met by the exact same old argument, then you've already won the internet. And then all of us can have a nice chat. Hug angel

That's sounds far too civilised for me o0. Maybe it's because I actually enjoy conspiracy theories that I persist. I do appreciate the rational among us helps keep me sane though Very Happy

Well then, can we finally get to the crucial topic of whether Anayi was on the grassy knoll? Phil? Chunky? Or was it only self-hating irishmen who shot JFK?  Cool

Chunky and Phil


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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 4:14 pm

munchkin and marty:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2PPkH_UGOI

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by Munchkin on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 4:15 pm

So long as I can be Kevin.

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

Post by marty2086 on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 4:16 pm

LordDowlais wrote:munchkin and marty:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2PPkH_UGOI

Funny LD I was thinking that for you, a stroppy teenager who doesn't listen and huffs and puffs when he doesn't get his own way and makes out everyones against him

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Re: Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

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