PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 6:47 pm

1).Farewell to "The Barclays" as the bankers assemble at Bethpage Black prior to departing the PGA Tour scene, twelve years after assuming sponsorship of the old Westchester Classic.
Round One of next year's FedEx Cup Play-Offs will be sponsored by Northern Trust and staged at a new venue: Glen Oaks in Old Westbury, NY. Followed by:
2018: Ridgewood CC in NJ
2019: Liberty National: NJ
2020: Plainfield CC: NJ
2021: Bethpage: NY
2022: Liberty National.

2).With The Barclays going the same way as the bank's largesse at the Scottish Open, the biggest void left to be filled may be the logo on Phil's chest if the left-handed one loses his sponsorship. Reports suggest that Five Guys Burgers And Fries will now be replacing Barclays' acreage.

3).Round 2 of the Play-Offs will be next week's Deutsche Bank Championship at TPC Boston, and that sponsorship too expires this year. Cue a week's worth of rumours about future sponsorship or the future of the tournament at all - it would be in line with the Tour's desertion of northern States if the Boston/Providence area is abandoned, but hopefully another event will replace it, though perhaps not enjoy Play-Off status.

4).Numbers 1 to 125 on the FedEx Points list qualify for this week's action. Garcia, Lowry, Cejka, Lahiri and Willett are absent so 120 pros, at last count, will take on the formidable Bethpage Black.
The 125 also retain their cards for next season, as do Messrs Duke, Marino, Cauley, Goosen, Chad Collins and Morgan Hoffmann who finished in the Top 125 in money earned - that loophole now expires permanently.

5).We described last week's Wyndham Championship in Greensboro as "career defining", and the outcome can be summarised:

In to the Top 125 and assured of full Tour Membership for 16/17: Kyle Stanley, Shawn Stefani.  
Out of the Top 125: Aussie Open winner Matt Jones (still has some status as a "Past Champion", Houston in 2014) and Whee Kim.

In to the Top 150 earning conditional status for 16/17: Stewart Cink, and Mansfield Man Greg Owen.
Out of the top 150: Will MacKenzie, Camilo Villegas - they both retain Past Champion status for their multiple Tour wins.

In to the Top 200, earning a place in next month's web.com Finals: Aussie Rhein Gibson.
Out of the Top 200: D.H.Lee who loses all Tour status.

6).Obviously the week's big winner was 21-y-o Si Woo Kim, who ran away with his first Tour win in his 30th tournament of the season. Kim is now up to #15 in FedEx Points and one more good result should earn him a place in the Tour Championship. He first "earned" his Tour card at the age of 17, but wasn't permitted by Tour rules to use it! But he's very definitely the real thing and, on early evidence, unlikely to go the way of his predecessor boy wonder namesake Kim.

7).13 golfers have now earned at least $5.3M in FedEx bonus money:
Cup winners: Woods (25M), Furyk ($15M), Stenson ($13M), Snedeker ($11.8M), Bill Haas ($11.2+M), Vijay Singh ($11.2-), Spieth ($10.9M), Horschel ($10.4M). All except Woods have already earned more cash by qualifying for this year's Play-Offs.
Others: Stricker ($8.5M), Mickelson ($8.0M), Kuchar ($5.9M), McIlroy ($5.5M), Donald ($5.3M) and all play this week.
That's a healthy retirement plan for these boys.

8).Doug Ferguson made a couple of interesting points about the future of Golf in the Olympics that I had missed.
~The course designated for Tokyo 2020, Kasumigaseki CC has 36 holes, so expanding the options for more play.
~In the clamour for some sort of Team event, tournaments run over 54 holes could represent an option that 72 holes might not. If not for the Individual Tournament, certainly for any Team Event, mostly likely mixed "doubles".

9).Bethpage Black prides itself on being a stern test for the Pros and no doubt its Par-71 (just 3 x Par-5's) will be fiercely protected. But the absent Nick Watney won with a ten-under-par total of 274 in 2012, by three strokes from Brandt Snedeker, with DJ and Sergio a shot further back.
Watney is still rehabbing injuries and Sergio's taking the week off, but you'd imagine the highly motivated Sneds and the always relaxed Dustin might play well again. Lucas Glover won the US Open here, while Johnson Wagner & Keegan Bradley played Bethpage frequently as amateurs.
Apart from that, it's difficult to have too many preconceived ideas as to how the weekend will pan out, but mostly fine (hot on Friday?) weather should ensure the course plays hard and fast.

10).Luke Donald finished T10 at the 2012 Barclays and perhaps course conditions might favour him if he can find the fairway off the tee.
After talking about Luke looking disconsolate following The Travelers, last week's 2nd place at Greensboro was a very welcome surprise. One interesting facet of his success is that he achieved it with very average, literally, stats for most criteria, but a -0.3 in strokes gained putting.
So much for stereotypes, but I imagine he'll need his putter to behave this week if Bethpage is to live up to its self-trumpeted reputation:
Bethpage "Warning: The Black Course is an extremely difficult course which we recommend only for highly skilled golfers."

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Post by I'm never wrong on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 7:26 pm

Excellent as usual Kwini. Apologies if this has been asked before, but have any members of this forum played Bethpage Black?
Just want to know how more difficult it is touted to be? e.g. by extra number of shots taken on a round.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 7:53 pm

Inw,
I'm sure Plunky has written about it, I think from her husband's pov as well as her own. Drop her a pm.


I see that Snedeker reckoned that in 2012, when it was as dry as it was wet for the two US Opens, he'd never experienced firmer fairways or greens. Could be something like that this week. Up to the Tour I s'pose.

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Post by Davie on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 8:07 pm

I have played BPB on a golf simulator (God I sound like Mac) .. but this particular on seems very accurate and it is TOUGH

I'll look forward to watching the real thing this weekend to see how it compares on TV to the computer simulations

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Post by I'm never wrong on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 8:17 pm

Thanks Kwini - I'll see if I can find it with a search.

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Post by 1GrumpyGolfer on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 8:41 pm

I haven't played there but I have some friends who have. It's certainly easier and cheaper if you live in New York. They say it is tough and a hard walk too so you get beat up mentally and physically throughout the round.

I'm not sure if Plunky has written about playing the Black course, I'm pretty sure when she's written about playing Bethpage it's the other courses that they've play there.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 8:44 pm

Thanks Grumps. I also found Plunky's post about playing the other courses.

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Post by GPB on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 9:17 pm

1GrumpyGolfer wrote:It's certainly easier and cheaper if you live in New York.

Guess I should be looking for New York natives for my fantasy team if it is easier for New York residents. Cool

Nice write-up Kwini.

Looks like Rory and Jordan regret not going to the Olympics.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/jordan-spieth-2016-olympics-barclays-skips-reacts?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatodaycomgolf-topstories

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Post by robopz on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 11:35 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:Excellent as usual Kwini. Apologies if this has been asked before, but have any members of this forum played Bethpage Black?
Just want to know how more difficult it is touted to be? e.g. by extra number of shots taken on a round.
I haven't played it, but I walked it for 3-1/2 days at the 2009 U.S. Open.  I wasn't working so I was there only Mon-Thurs (left after the first rain delay on Thurs), but I saw enough of it to know it was an absolute beast even before it got really drenched.   On Monday players were having trouble holding the greens from perfect lies in the FW's with shortish irons.... Before I left on Thurs, if they could get it in the FW, they could hold the green at least,  but by Thurs. there were areas of rough that were about as close to an unplayable lie as you'll ever see in so-called "regular" rough.

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Post by GPB on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 11:49 pm

Kuchar WDed from the Barclays Pro-Am because of Illness.

Zika related?

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Post by pedro on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 8:39 am

GPB wrote:Kuchar WDed from the Barclays Pro-Am because of Illness.

Zika Sickie related?
fixed it

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Post by wiretapper on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 10:06 am

kwinigolfer wrote:
Bethpage "Warning: The Black Course is an extremely difficult course which we recommend only for highly skilled golfers."

I remember that sign from the old PGA tour game Laugh

Excellent as ever Kwini clap

Are the play-offs reducing to 3 tournaments next season?

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Post by Shotrock on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 12:12 pm

I've played the "Black Course" two times. Greens were not tuned up when I played, but some brute length and heavy rough made for a hard test. That said, I've played probably 5 - 10 courses that I thought were more difficult.


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Post by McLaren on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 12:21 pm

Davie wrote:I have played BPB on a golf simulator (God I sound like Mac) .. but this particular on seems very accurate and it is TOUGH

I'll look forward to watching the real thing this weekend to see how it compares on TV to the computer simulations

Davie don't you have like a 15 handicap, I am sure most courses are hard for you. ;)
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Post by pedro on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 12:28 pm

So what makes it so tough?

Length?
Width of fairway?
Height of rough around fairway?
Green undulations?
Green speed?
Rough around green?
Wind?

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Post by Davie on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 12:37 pm

McLaren wrote:
Davie wrote:I have played BPB on a golf simulator (God I sound like Mac) .. but this particular on seems very accurate and it is TOUGH

I'll look forward to watching the real thing this weekend to see how it compares on TV to the computer simulations

Davie don't you have like a 15 handicap, I am sure most courses are hard for you.  Wink

Nope - higher than that :P

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Post by McLaren on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 1:07 pm

Erm
McLaren
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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 2:14 pm

Mine too Davie. Smile


wiretapper,
If a decision has been made on reducing Play-offs from 4 events to 3, I haven't seen it published.
All that I've read so far is summed up in this quote from Finchem, in response to a question from the AP about eliminating a Play-Off round a few months ago:

"The attitude of the players has always been that it's tough for four in a row. And then you are also getting close to the Presidents Cup or the Ryder Cup. You want space between big stuff. So I think it would depend on what else could go in the schedule, which is something we're looking at."

That could be Finchem-speak for a non-Play-Off event being added in New England and a 3-event Play-Off. But nothing published so far, though I would expect something to break very soon.

robo might have a more informed view. ??


Triple bogey from Stenson; hope his back is OK.

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Post by GPB on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 2:23 pm

Ryo Ishikawa is Tied for the lead after the first round of the Japan tournament this week.

8 players are tied with 6 under 66.

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Post by robopz on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 3:00 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Mine too Davie. Smile


wiretapper,
If a decision has been made on reducing Play-offs from 4 events to 3, I haven't seen it published.
All that I've read so far is summed up in this quote from Finchem, in response to a question from the AP about eliminating a Play-Off round a few months ago:

"The attitude of the players has always been that it's tough for four in a row. And then you are also getting close to the Presidents Cup or the Ryder Cup. You want space between big stuff. So I think it would depend on what else could go in the schedule, which is something we're looking at."

That could be Finchem-speak for a non-Play-Off event being added in New England and a 3-event Play-Off. But nothing published so far, though I would expect something to break very soon.

robo might have a more informed view. ??
There's an old saying Kwini... nothing is more on the outside than a former insider... while that's not 100% true yet, it's getting more so every day.   Only insight I have on it is from Duke Butler, and he's adamant that the Tour very much wants to keep the playoffs at 4 events and very much wants to will keep Boston in the mix.  He basically puts it as the Tour isn't in the business of backing up and there's no way they're going to let one of their crown jewels go by the wayside without a maximum effort to sustain it.  

About the only thing I can add to that personally...  is we hear complaints by some of the top players about the tough FE Cup schedule... but from my observation those are limited to just a few top full time PGAT guys and a higher % of the dual tour guys.  For the vast majority of them (and I do mean VAST majority)... the current FE Cup set up virtually guarantees they will get at least the same amount of retirement funding as they would have from just the old cuts plan, but also a chance to significantly improve on that or even possibly enjoy a "life changing" payday.


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Post by pedro on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 3:04 pm

..and it's only 30 players who'll play all events, end even fewer the RC or PC as well. Of course there's the double dippers, but I don't think Timmy worries too much about them.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 3:18 pm

robo,
That all makes perfect sense to me.

But haven't heard any rumours of possible fourth Play-Off sponsor (or even a third if BMW drives away). Regardless, it's a subject that Timmy can hardly avoid next week.

Olympics 1st and 2nd collectively +7 as they make the turn.


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Post by GPB on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 3:56 pm

I would think several current sponsors would step up to sponsor a Playoff event like Northern Trust did to replace Barclays.

The ATT event in Dallas would be a prime candidate. And Dallas would be a great city to host Round 3 (or Round 2) of the Playoffs.

Dallas weather is normally great in September.


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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 4:12 pm

That would be a whole new game of dominoes, GPB! Dallas just cooling down into the 90's come September, when I lived there anyway.

Another possibility, given that the TWF runs "Boston", is the QuickenLoans event.


Fowler starting well . . . . .

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Post by robopz on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 5:12 pm

Kwini... GPB... all I can say is never say never. Every indication is Timmy has been holding on mainly to secure the FE Cup future and set the stage for the TV deal renegotiation and/or opt out.

With that in mind.... anything is possible, and as of yet we really don't have a clue how Monahan might want to come out of the box firing so as to put his own mark on the Tour.

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Post by robopz on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 5:18 pm

GPB... all indications are AT&T are solid in Dallas long term, especially considering it's their headquarters and their financial involvement with the new course/facility in Dallas to host the Nelson once the Las Colinas deal expires.  Not sure if the Tour would want them as a sponsor for a 3rd event.  (But I assume they would if it was the only option)

EDIT: Wait... I misunderstood your comments... Yeah... I could see AT&T wanting to get away from their "cr@p" May date on the calendar. Not sure how the Tour would feel about breaking up Nelson and Colonial though...

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Post by beninho on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 8:16 pm

So a new putter hasn't turned rory into a better putter. Who new?

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Post by beninho on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 8:21 pm

I saw an interview with reed tge other day, he came across well, same just know on sky.

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Post by GPB on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 8:35 pm

Rory and Thorbjorn must have called each other yesterday and conspired to wear the same Nike shirt.

I had almost forgotten why I don't like Bethpage Black

Bubba's drive on 18 didn't miss the fairway by a long way.  Doesn't deserve to be a lost ball.

In the 2009 US Open, Ricky Barnes 2nd shot on 18 missed the green by about 8 feet (and the hole by about 20 ft).  His ball was almost declared lost.

I wouldn't pay $10 to play BPB.

Edit: Another reason to avoid BPB

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJixx9pjKBr/

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Post by Davie on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 8:48 pm

Ticks are a reason to avoid a golf course? Do they only infest BPB then?

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Post by GPB on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 9:16 pm

Davie wrote:Ticks are a reason to avoid a golf course? Do they only infest BPB then?

Never seen a warning in golf course restroom that recommends a golfer to inspect their pubes.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 10:52 pm

Stenson withdraws, complaining of a knee injury - the same knee apparently that he had surgery on nine months ago.

Get well Henrik. Please!

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 12:38 am

You'd have to think no American has disqualified himself from US RC qualification, but big moves forward by Red, Holmes and Fowler.

Molinari and McDowell have to play superbly Friday and this weekend to make a compelling case, the two most likely veterans, I would think, to be called up by DC.

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Post by Plunky on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 3:51 am

pedro wrote:So what makes it so tough?

Length?
Width of fairway?
Height of rough around fairway?
Green undulations?
Green speed?
Rough around green?
Wind?
I think it's length, rough, type of rough, size and depth of bunkers.  We've only played it in the fall when the rough has been cut back a bit. It is a tough walk -- buggies not allowed -- but I loved it ! It's even tougher for short hitters as the front tees are ridiculously close to the regular tees -- I never reached the fairway from the tee on the 11th hole.  Mr. p is a 14 handicap and would be happy to break 100 there.  I once was ecstatic when i bogeyed the first 3 holes, but  then I went 8,8,8 and stopped counting ! We've just moved away from Long Island to cape cod so have probably played our last round there.  Never been bothered by ticks at bethpage  -- they probably routinely put up that sign in every NY state park so they won't be sued if somebody does get bitten.

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Post by hend085 on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 10:57 am

Donald keeping his name in the hat while Knox will need a decent Round 2 to make the cut.
it looks like Lowry has played himself out of it in Demark

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Post by pedro on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 10:59 am

hend085 wrote:Donald keeping his name in the hat while Knox will need a decent Round 2 to make the cut.
it looks like Lowry has played himself out of it in Demark
it looks good for a pieters wc though

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Post by hend085 on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 11:44 am

i missed that 62! very impressive.

i wonder will DC name a reserve give Stenson's injury concern.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 11:51 am

Russell Knox and Martin Laird, despite their successes, haven't stirred much enthusiasm on this Board. I wonder about Seamus Power, whether he will be embraced when he reaches PGA Tour action in a couple of months?

After an excellent showing in Rio, he's back in business again, flashing a 64 on the web.com yesterday and improving his status seemingly every time he tees it up.

Decent round from Gonzo too, and in much better form as the web.com Finals are just around the corner.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 12:08 pm

Sometimes I feel like we're all straight men/women for super, but:
Lowry's on a roll . . . . . . Run

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Post by pedro on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 12:38 pm

Boing boing

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 1:15 pm

Bethpage seeemed to become more difficult as the winds picked up Thursday afternoon.
Best rounds from the "afternoon wave" were:
-4: JB Holmes (good for his RC credentials)
-3: Vegas, Kang,
-2: Ryan Moore, O'Hair, Fathauer

The other 13 from the Top 19 were all early birds.


It's going to be hotHOT today; after comments from experts as diverse as Jason Day and Mrs Plunky about Bethpage Black being a hard walk, stamina will be at a premium as the day heats up.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 1:27 pm

Not sure of the exact breakdown of FedEx "bonus money" this year, but in previous years it has included:

FedEx points rank 126 - 150: $32K

101 - 125: $70K - so Lahiri, for instance, qualifies for a $70K handout even though he didn't bother to turn up this week.

#100: Minimum of $75K

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Post by GPB on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 1:43 pm

The Top 5 for US Ryder Cup are nearly assured (Dustin, Jordan, Phil, Jimmy, Koepka)

After Round 1 of Barclays, the last three merit qualifiers would be Patrick, Holmes and Sneds.

Zach, Rickie, Bubba, Kuch would be 9-12 respectively.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 1:52 pm

Just as Davis would hope . . . . . .

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Post by McLaren on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 1:58 pm

Does Kevin Na deserve a pick?
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Post by GPB on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 1:59 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Not sure of the exact breakdown of FedEx "bonus money" this year, but in previous years it has included:

FedEx points rank 126 - 150: $32K

101 - 125: $70K - so Lahiri, for instance, qualifies for a $70K handout even though he didn't bother to turn up this week.

#100: Minimum of $75K

Technically not a handout but funds going into their retirement account.

Lowry might qualify for the $70K as of right now he is projected to fall from #87 to outside the Top 100. But he would save travel expense from Denmark to Boston.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:19 pm

Na does NOT deserve a pick.

I imagine Lowry will just about qualify for Bawston.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:43 pm

It's probably no more than 50 miles across the north of New York City's Metro area, but somewhere between Baltusrol and Bethpage Jimmy Walker lost his game. +6 after six holes this morning and tied for last among the 118 survivors.

Russell Knox has chosen a lousy week to be sick.

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Post by Plunky on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 2:46 pm

Q
kwinigolfer wrote:Bethpage seeemed to become more difficult as the winds picked up Thursday afternoon.
Best rounds from the "afternoon wave" were:
-4: JB Holmes (good for his RC credentials)
-3: Vegas, Kang,
-2: Ryan Moore, O'Hair, Fathauer

The other 13 from the Top 19 were all early birds.


It's going to be hotHOT today; after comments from experts as diverse as Jason Day and Mrs Plunky about Bethpage Black being a hard walk, stamina will be at a premium as the day heats up.
I'd just like to say,  before somebody goes on a rant about unfit golfers, that I was pushing/pulling a trolley around the course.   If somebody else had been carrying my clubs, mopping my fevered brow once in a while etc., it would have been a walk in the park.    thumbsup

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Post by robopz on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 3:12 pm

Kwini... Here's a PDF of the FE Bonus pool... including breakdown of cash/deferred portions for the top-10 players.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B28-0Wqx5A38N0s1Qy0xTG1CeHM/view

And again to be clear... except for the cash portion for the top-10 players... this isn't some handout... it's money taken from their own retirement funds (which they would have gotten anyway under the retirement plan prior to the FE Cup) and redistributed via their finish in the playoffs.

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