PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

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PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 6:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).Farewell to "The Barclays" as the bankers assemble at Bethpage Black prior to departing the PGA Tour scene, twelve years after assuming sponsorship of the old Westchester Classic.
Round One of next year's FedEx Cup Play-Offs will be sponsored by Northern Trust and staged at a new venue: Glen Oaks in Old Westbury, NY. Followed by:
2018: Ridgewood CC in NJ
2019: Liberty National: NJ
2020: Plainfield CC: NJ
2021: Bethpage: NY
2022: Liberty National.

2).With The Barclays going the same way as the bank's largesse at the Scottish Open, the biggest void left to be filled may be the logo on Phil's chest if the left-handed one loses his sponsorship. Reports suggest that Five Guys Burgers And Fries will now be replacing Barclays' acreage.

3).Round 2 of the Play-Offs will be next week's Deutsche Bank Championship at TPC Boston, and that sponsorship too expires this year. Cue a week's worth of rumours about future sponsorship or the future of the tournament at all - it would be in line with the Tour's desertion of northern States if the Boston/Providence area is abandoned, but hopefully another event will replace it, though perhaps not enjoy Play-Off status.

4).Numbers 1 to 125 on the FedEx Points list qualify for this week's action. Garcia, Lowry, Cejka, Lahiri and Willett are absent so 120 pros, at last count, will take on the formidable Bethpage Black.
The 125 also retain their cards for next season, as do Messrs Duke, Marino, Cauley, Goosen, Chad Collins and Morgan Hoffmann who finished in the Top 125 in money earned - that loophole now expires permanently.

5).We described last week's Wyndham Championship in Greensboro as "career defining", and the outcome can be summarised:

In to the Top 125 and assured of full Tour Membership for 16/17: Kyle Stanley, Shawn Stefani.  
Out of the Top 125: Aussie Open winner Matt Jones (still has some status as a "Past Champion", Houston in 2014) and Whee Kim.

In to the Top 150 earning conditional status for 16/17: Stewart Cink, and Mansfield Man Greg Owen.
Out of the top 150: Will MacKenzie, Camilo Villegas - they both retain Past Champion status for their multiple Tour wins.

In to the Top 200, earning a place in next month's web.com Finals: Aussie Rhein Gibson.
Out of the Top 200: D.H.Lee who loses all Tour status.

6).Obviously the week's big winner was 21-y-o Si Woo Kim, who ran away with his first Tour win in his 30th tournament of the season. Kim is now up to #15 in FedEx Points and one more good result should earn him a place in the Tour Championship. He first "earned" his Tour card at the age of 17, but wasn't permitted by Tour rules to use it! But he's very definitely the real thing and, on early evidence, unlikely to go the way of his predecessor boy wonder namesake Kim.

7).13 golfers have now earned at least $5.3M in FedEx bonus money:
Cup winners: Woods (25M), Furyk ($15M), Stenson ($13M), Snedeker ($11.8M), Bill Haas ($11.2+M), Vijay Singh ($11.2-), Spieth ($10.9M), Horschel ($10.4M). All except Woods have already earned more cash by qualifying for this year's Play-Offs.
Others: Stricker ($8.5M), Mickelson ($8.0M), Kuchar ($5.9M), McIlroy ($5.5M), Donald ($5.3M) and all play this week.
That's a healthy retirement plan for these boys.

8).Doug Ferguson made a couple of interesting points about the future of Golf in the Olympics that I had missed.
~The course designated for Tokyo 2020, Kasumigaseki CC has 36 holes, so expanding the options for more play.
~In the clamour for some sort of Team event, tournaments run over 54 holes could represent an option that 72 holes might not. If not for the Individual Tournament, certainly for any Team Event, mostly likely mixed "doubles".

9).Bethpage Black prides itself on being a stern test for the Pros and no doubt its Par-71 (just 3 x Par-5's) will be fiercely protected. But the absent Nick Watney won with a ten-under-par total of 274 in 2012, by three strokes from Brandt Snedeker, with DJ and Sergio a shot further back.
Watney is still rehabbing injuries and Sergio's taking the week off, but you'd imagine the highly motivated Sneds and the always relaxed Dustin might play well again. Lucas Glover won the US Open here, while Johnson Wagner & Keegan Bradley played Bethpage frequently as amateurs.
Apart from that, it's difficult to have too many preconceived ideas as to how the weekend will pan out, but mostly fine (hot on Friday?) weather should ensure the course plays hard and fast.

10).Luke Donald finished T10 at the 2012 Barclays and perhaps course conditions might favour him if he can find the fairway off the tee.
After talking about Luke looking disconsolate following The Travelers, last week's 2nd place at Greensboro was a very welcome surprise. One interesting facet of his success is that he achieved it with very average, literally, stats for most criteria, but a -0.3 in strokes gained putting.
So much for stereotypes, but I imagine he'll need his putter to behave this week if Bethpage is to live up to its self-trumpeted reputation:
Bethpage "Warning: The Black Course is an extremely difficult course which we recommend only for highly skilled golfers."

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 7:53 pm

Kwin - The two aren't mutually exclusive! One must learn to multi-task.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 7:58 pm

super_realist wrote:
GPB wrote:This report from Golf Channel says that Darren Clarke hosted  two Ryder Cup dinners during the Players Week

One primarily for RC Veterans (which included Danny Willett).

And the other one for Potential RC Rookies including Rafa, Weisberger, Fitzpatrick.  

So it begs the question, why wasn't Knox invited to the "Rookie" Dinner.

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/darren-clarke-holds-dinners-ryder-cup-players/


How do you know he wasn't invited, and didn't go?


I don't know, and nor do you know that he was invited and a no show.

I do know that he was NOT mentioned in this report. It was noted that Rory did not show up for the Vets dinner.

When the US potential team members were invited at Chez Nicklaus, the 40 players in the standings were invited

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 8:13 pm

GPB,
You'll probably recall that some young American candidates, Justin Thomas for instance, were excluded from that invitation list - caused a bit of a media rumpus at the time, for about five minutes.

Not worth basing a hypothesis on dinner invites, there'll always be hindsight anomalies.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Davie on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 8:31 pm

GPB is starting so show a chip (or should that be a fry?) on his shoulder as big as jockstrap boy laughing

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 8:56 pm

Kwini

I was quite clearly for the idea that RC captains reach out to hopefuls early on. In fact this was how McGinley did it, as was mentioned in the podcast. In your bid to see every post not gushing about the European RC efforts as negative you have failed to realise the praise a former RC hero was getting. thumbsdown
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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 8:59 pm

Shotrock wrote:Hey - I'm just hoping the US wins the "per capita" exhibition event this year!

All I know is that per capita the Europeans are missing a few majors over the same time period as their RC success.

Run
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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:02 pm

Realizing it's not all about playing form... I can't criticize Clarke for picking Westy.... he wanted the experience, leadership and someone he felt he could pair with any of the rookies or veterans alike.  In foresight, I just can't argue against that logic.... now once I have the benefit and clarity of 20-20 hindsight... feel free to ask me again...  :-)

But as for Knox.... if he's miffed by thinking he should have been on the team.... can't blame him a bit.  It simply was not on him to go over and chase down Clarke to be "friends".  Heck he doesn't know the protocols on that.  He did everything he shoulda done... he took up membership and went over for Abu Dhabi, BMW, Irish, Scottish & Open.... and having won the HSBC and publicly expressed his desire to join the ET and play Ryder Cup... it was up to Clarke and or other ET Ryder Cup folks to make him feel welcome and involved.   But they did none of that so that one's 100% on Darren and 0% on Knox.

EDIT: And as far as Huggan... man it pains me to agree with that guy, but IMO he's got a least two things right on this Ryder Cup... The communication with Knox sucked... and the USA task force was utterly stupid...

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:48 pm

Mac,
I was preoccupied all morning with the first scheduled airline flight from USA to Cuba for christknowshowlong, trying to follow postings my lad made from inside the plane. Cool experience for an old man.


robo,
I wasn't saying RK should reach out to DC, I was following on from my earlier position that it's entirely his fault he didn't join the ET earlier.
I've championed Knox on here since he was on the e.com Tour (or wherever NedB-H first found him), still a huge supporter (think I was the only one on the Grumps game to pick him for his TC win). But can't possibly feel criticism of Clarke for not choosing him is justified. Even if we get thumped 20-something to nil.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:49 pm

Mac - True enough ... winning a major is certainly the primary end game for the top professional golfer.

Hype up the RC country v continent exhibition until the cows come home ... but it's well documented that former #1 golfer Lukey changed his swing at the pinnacle of his career to do just that.

We all know what happened!

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:59 pm

Kwini... can't agree Knox has any fault in not joining the ET sooner, because he had no path to the ET until he won the WGC. Did he? That's why I was asking the other day.

Knox did what Luke did before him... joined the ET when he became a RC level player... and had the status to do so.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 10:05 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
I was preoccupied all morning with the first scheduled airline flight from USA to Cuba for christknowshowlong, trying to follow postings my lad made from inside the plane. Cool experience for an old man.

A cool experience for anyone. Are you going to head down there yourself for some winter sun? Do they have a golf course?
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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 10:07 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:GPB,
You'll probably recall that some young American candidates, Justin Thomas for instance, were excluded from that invitation list - caused a bit of a media rumpus at the time, for about five minutes.

Not worth basing a hypothesis on dinner invites, there'll always be hindsight anomalies.

You got to draw a line somewhere. They drew the line at Top 40 before Riviera. Justin Thomas was not in the Top 40.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 10:08 pm

Kwini... also... I can't fault Darren for not taking Knox either, especially considering the rookie situation on the team.

But I can't fault Knox for being royally miffed about it either. Reading between the lines... I'd have to think Knox has left this whole deal thinking "it didn't matter what I did. Their attitude as demonstrated by their total lack of communication with me tells me they never wanted me or cared a spit about me in the first place... so screw them".

The good thing in all this... Knox seems to be class enough an act not to really unload... like I get the feeling he really would like to.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 10:11 pm

Hi, I'm Darren Clarke, Ryder Cup Captain, D@mn Glad to meet you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGGt1t8bLtg

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 10:18 pm

Davie wrote:GPB is starting so show a chip (or should that be a fry?) on his shoulder as big as jockstrap boy laughing

I don't know why there is a trend to insult other posters on this board. I try to address the message and not insult the messenger. But whatever.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 10:22 pm

Another thing to consider is that the European team were relying on many aging players and that a year with a lot of rookies was likely to happen at some point. Poulter, Gmac, Westwood, Donald, Lawrie, Bjorn, MAJ and probably a few I have forgotten were always likely to bow out over the 2014-2016 RC's.

Add to this that Wood, Fitzypoo, Willett, Sullivan, RCB have one timers written all over them and 2018 could be a very naive team.

Maybe Knox and another should have been bled in now to lessen the 2018 rookie burden?
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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 10:28 pm

Mac,
Not sure. He just went down as an airline employee who was invited. He'll go back though, because he can! Freebie.
My niece just came back from four months there and my brother was there for a fortnight - I'm feeling quite left out.


robo, GPB, Very happy!! to agree to disagree on this, though disagree with the example of Luke Donald, who had been an ET member the year before and had a (minimalist) PGA Tour win and two ET wins under his belt - altho' he was a "pick".
And: I have much more confidence in Knox's resilience than you might, he'll get over it!

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:14 pm

Kwini... while Luke and Knox's situations were similar in some respects... they were different in others.

Luke had already established himself on the PGA Tour, and I don't know how exactly how he got it, but Luke apparently had been granted Euro Tour membership in mid-2004 without going to any Q-school or anything that I can find. I have no clue what the membership requirements were then, or what level of membership he had, but he had it never the less.  Then when he won the Scandinavian Masters he was set. But he clearly joined the ET because of Ryder Cup...

"Donald returned to the European Tour this year in an attempt to earn a spot on the European Ryder Cup team. It took little time for the Englishman Donald to break into the win column at the Scandinavian Masters.

"I'm glad I made the decision to come over here and rejoin the European Tour," said Donald, who was a winner on the PGA Tour in 2002.".... http://www.upi.com/Luke-Donald-wins-European-Masters/56111094415136/


The difference with Knox was 2014 was his first year with full PGAT status and not fighting for his card.... and that's when he started coming back to play the Scottish Open (even before he was Open qualified)... and until his win in 2015 HSBC I don't see any pathway that he had to take up Euro Tour membership...  I keep asking this question... but nobody seems to be able to confirm if that's the case or not.

Bottom line:  It appears to me that Knox took up his membership on the ET as soon as he had a way to do so... I don't understand how he can be faulted for not getting ET membership sooner.

But sure... I don't think Knox will hold a grudge.  He impresses me as the kind of guy who'd rather just go out there and SHOW them why it was a mistake not to pick him... and I wish him well in that effort.  Nothing I'd like to see better than him at least contend late on Sunday Monday at the DB.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:52 pm

robo,
Not sure about Luke, he played well in a couple of 2003 tournaments, not sure how everything worked back then but he might have earned your equivalent of conditional membership.
However it happened, I'm glad it did!


Any more news on the future of the DB?

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:14 am

I have nothing more than I said the other day. After this week is over and if it's still not clear... I'll check with my source and see if there's anything new.

I don't know the specifics... but I'm getting very recent word that Houston is in good shape for replacing Shell. They're still kinda "shell-shocked" down there over losing them... they really didn't see it coming. From what I hear now... even the Shell USA President had no clue until the Shell home office in The Hague told him it was on the chopping block just a few days before the final decision was made.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 1:42 am

Thanks robo,
Imagine the Houston community might be among the more resourceful in coming up with a way forward with plenty of Corp HQ's in the area. Certainly hope so . . . . .

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 7:52 am

robopz wrote:I have nothing more than I said the other day.   After this week is over and if it's still not clear... I'll check with my source and see if there's anything new.  

I don't know the specifics... but I'm getting very recent word that Houston is in good shape for replacing Shell.  They're still kinda "shell-shocked" down there over losing them... they really didn't see it coming.   From what I hear now... even the Shell USA President had no clue until the Shell home office in The Hague told him it was on the chopping block just a few days before the final decision was made.

How could Houston not consider that it was a strong possibility? Every oil company in the world has contracted massively and reduced spending on needless things, and it's not as if it's something which has been missed by the media. I would have thought it was obvious that they could lose sponsorship.
Typical arrogance of golf not to have even considered it likely. They've only got themselves to blame for not being prepared.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 2:30 pm

GMac's wife has baby... https://twitter.com/Graeme_McDowell/status/771332946829586432

If GMac has WD'd from the DB... it hasn't shown up yet. At #35 in the FECup he's at no risk from getting bumped out of the next round of the playoffs should he WD.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 2:49 pm

super_realist wrote:How could Houston not consider that it was a strong possibility? Every oil company in the world has contracted massively and reduced spending on needless things, and it's not as if it's something which has been missed by the media. I would have thought it was obvious that they could lose sponsorship.
Typical arrogance of golf not to have even considered it likely. They've only got themselves to blame for not being prepared.
What blame? What arrogance? And who says's they're not prepared? There was little reason to be concerned based on repeated assurances from the New Shell USA CEO they were OK. And seeing as how the oil "bidness" has been through quite a few up and down cycles in the 25 years Shell has been a sponsor and they always stuck it out, there wasn't a lot of concern about this particular downturn.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:18 pm

Super

Shell are still pumping way more money into their Ferrari f1 endorsement than they would have put into the Houston open, how does that fit with what you are saying?

If the head of Shell in the US didn't know it was happening how were the tournament organizers supposed to know?

Another great example of you assuming everyone else is an idiot in hindsight, but I am yet to read any great prophecy from you before the fact.
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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:18 pm

Robo: Must be a Euro thing. A sponsor loss for the EuroTour is devastating. The tournaments disappear.

The PGATour has millions of dollars in their coffers to fund a tournament in case it goes sponsor-free for a year or two. There is no need to panic.

Yes, there has been a few tournaments loss on the PGATour over the last decade or so. But the PGATour comes up with a replacement that is just as good or better.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:24 pm

That's why Finchem is a genius.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:32 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:That's why Finchem is a genius.

I really don't know the history of what Finchem has done but do you really believe that or was it a case of right play at the right time. In that he rode the Tiger wave while the European tour failed to flourish?

We can't deny the PGAT is in a very strong position at the moment but I often wonder about the point in time that the PGAT became the dominant tour and how it happened. Was there a point in the 70's, 80's or 90's where the things could really have worked out differently and the EuroT would have been the worlds premier tour?
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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:47 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:That's why Finchem is a genius.
IMO the genius of the PGA Tour goes all the way back to Deane Beman. When he took over tournaments were coming and going on the PGA Tour on the whims of a sponsor being willing to foot the bill. Beman understood the strongest events were the ones that had strong local/community involvement and a charitable aspect to encourage and support the volunteerism needed. Sponsors could come and go, but as long as that core support was there events were more sustainable in tough times. It took him about 10 years to transform the rest of the events, but the Tour has been on pretty solid footing ever since. IMO Finchem's greatest contribution has been taking the existing model left him, and expanding, modernizing and maximizing it within a strong business structure.

I for one am glad to see the ET more fully recognizing the benefits of the PGAT event structure and taking the parts that works for them and aggressively incorporating them where they can. The "community" model works throughout Europe... The issue is taking it to the Middle East, some parts of Asia and some of the ET's other far flung venues where golf is not as well locally established where it may or will not work as well.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:54 pm

Ryan Ballengee tweet wrote:Deutsche Bank is out as title sponsor, replaced by EMC. It'll still be the 2nd playoff event and will still end on Labor Day.

https://twitter.com/RyanBallengee/status/771347227025571840


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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:56 pm

Robo: Will Gray tweet says GMAC is still going to play D-Bank.

https://twitter.com/WillGrayGC/status/771340834813931520

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 4:01 pm

Mac... IMO the biggest factors to the PGA Tour becoming the dominant force in professional golf were two fold.

1) It happened the USA were first to see professional touring golf as a career. Starting with the early formation and organization of a Tour in 1916.  Then add in the likes of a personality like Hagen to drive it.

2) Two World Wars.  Europe was devastated by two wars, not only in cost to it's population but in it's infrastructure.  Since neither war was fought on our soil we recovered much more quickly.  We could in effect say "War's over, lets move on".  But in Europe it would take more like generation to recover.  

So by the time the PGAT was on the back side the of WWII...  the PGA tour had a tremendous leg up in the world of "professional touring golf"  Then add in the tremendous boom in golf here from the 50's as America moved to the suburbs, the way American TV embraced the sport, the way viewers embraced it's stars like Palmer...  that brought money and sponsorship.  So by then it would be almost impossible for any other tour to catch up.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 4:07 pm

GPB wrote:
Ryan Ballengee tweet wrote:Deutsche Bank is out as title sponsor, replaced by EMC. It'll still be the 2nd playoff event and will still end on Labor Day.

https://twitter.com/RyanBallengee/status/771347227025571840

EMC?   Hmmmm....  or maybe "Oh Crap".... EMC, with a secondary headquarters here in Houston, was one of the leading names in the conversation to take for Shell.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 4:18 pm

Billy Andrade will be pleased . . . . . .


Mac, robo,
I DO think Finchem is a genius, but also agree that Deane Beman laid the foundatio and Finchem has had one or two fly-by-nighters amongst his sponsors too, Ginn, Stanford, Justice (oh wait, he hasn't been rumbled yet).

But Finchem did a fantastic job during the economic downturn which was largely post-Tiger, recognizing that the best clients are the ones you already have and cultivating multi-year contracts all over the place - which is a major reason why Shell departing was a shock.
I regret his migration from the North-East and Midwest but that's as much of a reflection of political America subsidising the south and west as anything.
And he's made 99% of his employers happy and, for the most part, wealthy beyond their dreams.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 4:34 pm

Kwini... certainly every sponsor hasn't been a winner... and good one's or bad one's, they come and go. Change is just the nature of the beast when corporate interests no longer feel a sponsorship supports their needs.

And don't take my comments on Finchem wrong. IMO he's been the best Commissioner the Tour could have hoped for post Beman. And like you said, he really showed his worth in his success in holding it all together during the economic and post Tiger downturn.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 4:37 pm

Just trying to be magnanimous towards someone who is very difficult to feel warmly about . . . . . !!!!!!!!

I don't think he has the golfing vision of a Beman, but certainly has the business acumen in spades.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 4:42 pm

PS: It is also a reflection of your "community" comment that the one significant tournament to move recently has been Doral - gone from being apparently a great social event to a corporate disaster. Off across the wall. Smile

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 5:24 pm

Robo/GPB/kwini

Thanks for the all PGAT history and thoughts on Finchem and the tours success.
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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 6:40 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:PS: It is also a reflection of your "community" comment that the one significant tournament to move recently has been Doral - gone from being apparently a great social event to a corporate disaster. Off across the wall. Smile  
Doral has it's own set of issues. Unfortunate, but it became probably the the worst sponsor value on Tour because Trump's gonna hijack the majority of the "branding" spotlight no matter what. And I'm not even touching the "politics" of it all...

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 9:25 am

McLaren wrote:Super

Shell are still pumping way more money into their Ferrari f1 endorsement than they would have put into the Houston open, how does that fit with what you are saying?

If the head of Shell in the US didn't know it was happening how were the tournament organizers supposed to know?

Another great example of you assuming everyone else is an idiot in hindsight, but I am yet to read any great prophecy from you before the fact.

Are you really that stupid Mac? F1 is a perfect place to advertise such a  product. Why would golf be? F1 relies on such products and is a crucial part of the whole exercise whilst it is seen the world over, it also has to stay ahead of its competitors in this field like Total/Chevron/Statoil/Saudi Aramco etc, whilst the Shell Houston Open is just a bunch of rednecks hitting a ball around some armpit in Texas and is an area where no other oil companies have any real interest.

Also, if the Head of Shell in the US was so unaware that business deals like the BG takeover which happened at a terrible time for the industry, cost Shell billions and the falling price of all was likely to have an impact on a tinpot event taking place so far away from the UK/Dutch home of the company and which are not central to the business model of a company as large as Shell, then he is obviously a buffoon who doesn't deserve to be in charge of the US arm of such a massive company. (by the way, do you really think the Head of Shell USA would actually be the person who would be responsible for sponsorships and marketing, don't you think this would fall to a much more lowly department? of course it would, it's just terrible reporting. The head of Shell USA has much more important things to do than be concerned with a tinpot sporting event)

Getting rid of sponsorship that gets minimal return for the company is common sense in a downturn, getting rid of F1 sponsorship would be a completely different matter as the product is pivotal to the sport. Do you really not understand that at all? F1 is showcase, Golf is just an add on for a company like Shell, and clearly seen as a waste of money, and naturally an area where Shell can save money with minimal impact on promoting its product.

Anyone who works or has worked in the industry through such a downturn has seen massive structural changes and for the Shell US MD not to consider things like this being part of cost cutting which have been going on in his own company is an incredible demonstration of naivity, bit like your understanding of the situation and large businesses.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 10:36 am

Super

I hope the few million a year Shell will save ditching sponsorship of the Houston open helps weather them weather the recent storm.
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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 3:11 pm

Mac, it's absolutely clear you have never worked for a company of any size whatsoever. Yes, it's only a few million in this particular sponsorship, but when you add it to the savings companies like that also make in other areas then it all adds up. You cannot continue to sponsor events like this which bring little to the company, when they are laying people off hand over fist in others.

You haven't a clue, as usual.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 3:52 pm

Super

How do you know shell's sponsorship of the Houston Open "brings little to the company"?


And no I have never worked for a company as big as shell. Biggest I have worked for had about a few thousand employees.

But yes I would admit to not having a clue how losing a few million off the books could make any difference to Shell's current issues.
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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 4:07 pm

Because Mac, when you are a company that is facing a challenging environment, such as every oil company is, you start to get rid of the things that cost you money and get less return. I've seen it for the last 18 months remember.

You need to remember that something like the Shell Houston Open might only be a few million, which to Shell clearly isn't very much, but there are shareholder demands to make for a start, they want a high dividend, and something like this can only take money away. It's about streamlining, and making percentage gains. It also looks terrible if you are laying people off, yet still sponsoring a sport already swimming in money. It's being responsible, and prioritising who you sponsor and why.
Shell make money by discovering and producing oil, not by sponsoring an unrelated sporting event with a small audience like golf.

When a company like Shell lays off thousands of people, as they have done, they are not only saving money on things like Salary, but all the other associated costs such as Software Licences, Data, Pensions, Medical, Insurance, Building Rent, Investment etc etc etc.  Add that to the costs you save by the likes of sporting events and you start to add lots of savings together to make a large one.

Any company worth its salt, and which understands its cost structure gets rid of the things which aren't necessary to the short to medium future of the business, or which it can do without. Shell clearly see it as something which can be done without. If it was business critical, don't you think they'd keep it, like they do with F1, at least in its present guise? It was already well documented over the last year that Shell have been reducing their presence in Houston, it's not remotely a surprise to anyone in the industry that events like this, simply aren't something which they rely on. It's a drain most likely, even a small one, but that's how you survive, small savings over lots of different areas.

Don't tell me you couldn't work that out? Do you think companies only cut things which cost the most? Think more rationally. If you're on a budget, you make lots of small savings right? Sponsorship in golf, is clearly not something which Shell seeing as being worth it. Hence despite being only a few million, that's better to save either jobs in the company, or to support the dividends, don't you think?

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 4:30 pm

Super

That is one of the most rambling incoherent posts ever made. Take a deep breath and try again.


Everyone else

Bloody hell, not sure super is ok mentally at the moment. Wonder what is up with him?
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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 5:45 pm

Mac, sometimes I don't know whether you actually are that green and naive or if you just deliberately pretend not to understand things.

Shell is one of the biggest companies in the world, it is active in almost every country in the world, it will have hundreds, if not thousands of contracts with other companies, vendors, suppliers, service companies etc. In a turndown it will renegotiate the terms of contracts, cancel some, make efficiencies etc.
So, for every contract, if you can save a couple of million on them, you aren't just talking about saving a few quid in the Shell Open Houston (which on its own would be meaningless), you are talking billions if you can do it for the thousands of contracts you have. There's a reason that Contracts/Legal departments are so large in these companies.

Also, in a downturn, countries tend to retract more towards their home bases with their satellite operations the most likely to suffer. Surely you knew that?

Did you really need me to spell that out to you, or do you only think in black and white as it appears? (apologies if that's a racist term)

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 5:57 pm

Super

Sorry, I just don't understand what you are talking about. That last post might as well have been in korean.
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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 2:22 pm

Well then, you're an idiot. If you can't see how a company as large as Shell making savings in thousands of areas (Shell Open just being one) contributes to a large overall and worthwhile saving then you're just as stupid as I thought you were.

Imagine they have 1000 contracts and they are able to save £2-3 million on each one by restructuring, renegotiation etc, that's 2-3 BILLION. If you can't understand that, it's no wonder you have a non skilled job.

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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 4:30 pm

Again I am baffled, this stuff is just going straight over me. Not sure why but what you are saying just doesn't make any sense to me.
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Re: PGA Tour: Barclay Scarred: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 4:47 pm

What can't you understand?

You seem to be saying that cancelling the Shell Houston Open sponsorship is a waste of time for Shell because it is such a trifling amount of money, however what you haven't understood is that Shell will be doing similar cost savings across 1000's of other contracts they have with other companies and suppliers meaning that over the course of all savings it adds up to a large amount. So it's not a waste of time to cancel the sports sponsorship of a small event for Shell, because it's part of a larger picture.

You are either a complete oaf, or your attempts at trying to wind me up are just terrible.

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