Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

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Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by A Simply Mesmeric Try on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 4:25 am

First topic message reminder :

          
Edinburgh & Glasgow Warriors

A Not So Brief History of Time-Wasting   (click to show/hide):

Guinness Pro12


Edinburgh - Fixtures & Results   (click to show/hide):

Click on a match for more in-depth info & highlights (ultimaterugby.com):
Victories in bold.

Results
1. 03/09/2016 | 19:35 | Cardiff Blues 34 - 16 Edinburgh Rugby | Cardiff Arms Park | BBC ALBA
2. 09/09/2016 | 19:35 | Edinburgh Rugby 20-9 Scarlets | BT Murrayfield | BBC ALBA
3. 16/09/2016 | 19:35 | Edinburgh Rugby 20-33 Leinster Rugby | BT Murrayfield | BBC ALBA/TG4
4. 24/09/2016 | 15:00 | Munster Rugby 28-14 Edinburgh | Rugby Thomond Park | Sky
5. 30/09/2016 | 19:35 | Connacht Rugby 28-15 Edinburgh Rugby | Galway Sportsground | TG4
6. 07/10/2016 | 19:35 | Edinburgh Rugby 45-10 Benetton Treviso | BT Murrayfield | BBC ALBA

Fixtures
7. 28/10/2016 | 19:35 | Edinburgh Rugby v Zebre Rugby | BT Murrayfield
8. 04/11/2016 | 19:35 | Edinburgh Rugby v Ulster Rugby | BT Murrayfield | BBC ALBA/BBCNI
9. 27/11/2016 | 15:30 | Newport Gwent Dragons v Edinburgh Rugby | Rodney Parade | S4C
10. 02/12/2016 | 19:35 | Ospreys v Edinburgh Rugby | Liberty Stadium | BBCW
11. 26/12/2016 | 16:05 | Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors | BT Murrayfield | BBC ALBA
12. 31/12/2016 | TBC | Zebre Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby | Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi | TBC
13. 07/01/2017 | 15:00 | Edinburgh Rugby v Munster Rugby | Myreside | Sky
14. 10/11/12 Feb | TBC | Ulster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby | Kingspan Stadium | TBC
15. 17/18/19 Feb | TBC | Leinster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby | RDS Arena | TBC
16. 24/25/26 Feb | TBC | Edinburgh Rugby v Cardiff Blues | Myreside | TBC
17. 03/04/05 Mar | TBC | Edinburgh Rugby v Ospreys | Myreside | TBC
18. 24/25/26 Mar | TBC | Scarlets v Edinburgh Rugby | Parc y Scarlets | TBC
19. 07/08/09 Apr | TBC | Edinburgh Rugby v Connacht Rugby | Myreside | TBC
20. 15/04/2017 | 20:05 | Benetton Treviso v Edinburgh Rugby | Stadio Monigo | TBC
21. 28/29/30 Apr | TBC | Edinburgh Rugby v Newport Gwent Dragons | Myreside | TBC
22. 06/05/2017 | 17:15 | Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby | Scotstoun Stadium | TBC


Youtube playlist of all of Edinburgh's Pro12 action here.

Glasgow Warriors - Fixtures & Results   (click to show/hide):

Click on a match for more in-depth info & highlights (ultimaterugby.com):
Victories in bold.

Results
1. 03/09/2016 | 17:35 | Connacht Rugby 5-41 Glasgow Warriors | Galway Sportsground | Sky
2. 10/09/2016 | 15:00 | Glasgow Warriors 33-25 Leinster Rugby | Scotstoun Stadium | Sky

3. 16/09/2016 | 19:00 | Cardiff Blues 23-19 Glasgow Warriors | Cardiff Arms Park | [Not on TV]
4. 23/09/2016 | 19:35 | Glasgow Warriors 17-22 Ulster Rugby | Scotstoun Stadium | ALBA/BBCNI
5. 30/09/2016 | 19:35 | Newport Gwent Dragons 17-26 Glasgow Warriors | Rodney Parade | BBCW/ALBA
6. 08/10/2016 | 17:05 | Zebre Rugby 28-33 Glasgow Warriors | Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi | TBC


Fixtures
7. 28/10/2016 | 19:35 | Glasgow Warriors v Benetton Treviso | Scotstoun Stadium | BBC ALBA
8. 05/11/2016 | 19:35 | Scarlets v Glasgow Warriors | Parc y Scarlets | S4C/BBC ALBA
9. 25/11/2016 | 19:35 | Glasgow Warriors v Ospreys | Scotstoun Stadium | Sky
10. 02/12/2016 | 19:35 | Glasgow Warriors v Munster Rugby | Scotstoun Stadium | BBC ALBA/TG4
11. 26/12/2016 | 16:05 | Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors | BT Murrayfield | BBC ALBA
12. 31/12/2016 | 14:00 | Benetton Treviso v Glasgow Warriors | Stadio Monigo | TBC/BBC ALBA
13. 07/01/2017 | 19:35 | Glasgow Warriors v Cardiff Blues | Scotstoun Stadium | BBC ALBA/S4C
14. 10/11/12 Feb | TBC | Glasgow Warriors v Scarlets | Scotstoun Stadium | TBC
15. 17/18/19 Feb | TBC | Ulster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors | Kingspan Stadium | TBC
16. 24/25/26 Feb | TBC | Ospreys v Glasgow Warriors | Liberty Stadium | TBC
17. 03/04/05 Mar | TBC | Glasgow Warriors v Newport Gwent Dragons | Scotstoun Stadium | TBC
18. 24/25/26 Mar | TBC | Glasgow Warriors v Connacht Rugby | Scotstoun Stadium | TBC
19. 07/08/09 Apr | TBC | Munster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors | Irish Independent Park | TBC
20. 14/04/2017 | 19:35 | Glasgow Warriors v Zebre Rugby | Scotstoun Stadium | BBC ALBA
21. 28/29/30 Apr | TBC | Leinster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors | RDS Arena  |  TBC
22. 06/05/2017 | 17:15 | Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby | Scotstoun Stadium | TBC


Youtube playlist of all of Glasgow's Pro12 action here.

Europe


Champions Cup - Glasgow Warriors   (click to show/hide):

14/10/2016 | 19:45 | Glasgow Warriors 42-13 Leicester Tigers | Scotstoun Stadium |  BT Sport / beIN Sports
22/10/2016 | 13:00 | Munster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors | Thomond Park |  Sky Sports / beIN Sports
10/12/2016 | 16:15 | Racing 92 v Glasgow Warriors | Stade Yves-Du-Manoir | beIN Sports / BT Sport
16/12/2016 | 19:45 | Glasgow Warriors v Racing 92 | Scotstoun Stadium | BT Sport / beIN Sports
13/14/15 Jan | TBC | Glasgow Warriors v Munster Rugby | Scotstoun Stadium | TBC
20/21/22 Jan | TBC | Leicester Tigers v Glasgow Warriors | Welford Road | TBC


Challenge Cup - Edinburgh   (click to show/hide):

15/10/2016 | 15:00 | Timisoara Saracens 17-59 Edinburgh Rugby | Dan Paltinisanu Stadium | TBC
22/10/2016 | 15:15 | Edinburgh Rugby v Harlequins | BT Murrayfield Stadium | BT Sport
10/12/2016 | 19:45 | Edinburgh Rugby v Stade Francais Paris | BT Murrayfield Stadium | FR4
15/12/2016 | 20:45 | Stade Francais Paris v Edinburgh Rugby | Stade Jean Bouin | beIN Sports
12/13/14/15 Jan | TBC |  Harlequins v Edinburgh Rugby | The Twickenham Stoop | TBC    *no link
19/20/21/22 Jan | TBC |  Edinburgh Rugby v Timisoara Saracens | Myreside | TBC     *no link



1872 Cup



Champions                Runner up
Edinburgh                  Glasgow Warriors
 

1872 Cup - Past Results   (click to show/hide):

2007–08
28 December 2007, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 35–31 Glasgow Warriors
11 April 2008, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 23–14 Edinburgh
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 54–49

2008–09
26 December 2008, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 39–6 Glasgow Warriors
2 January 2009, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 25–20 Edinburgh
Winner: Edinburgh 59–31

2009–10
27 December 2009, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 25–12 Edinburgh
2 January 2010, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 15–22 Glasgow Warriors
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 47–27

2010–11
27 December 2010, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 30–18 Edinburgh
2 January 2011, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 28–17 Glasgow Warriors
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 47–46

2011–12
26 December 2011, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 23–23 Glasgow Warriors
1 January 2012, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 17–12 Edinburgh
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 40–35

2012–13
21 December 2012, Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 23–14 Edinburgh
29 December 2012, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 17–21 Glasgow Warriors
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 44–31

2013–14
26 December 2013, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 16–20 Glasgow Warriors
26 April 2014, Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 37–34 Edinburgh  (postponed from 1st Jan due to waterlogged pitch)
Winner: Glasgow 57–50

2014–15
27 December 2014, Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 16–6 Edinburgh
2 January 2015, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 20–8 Glasgow Warriors
Winner: Edinburgh 26–24

2015–16
27 December 2015, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 23–11 Glasgow Warriors
2 January 2016, Murrayfield Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 11–14 Edinburgh (moved from Scotstoun due to waterlogged pitch)
Winner: Edinburgh 37–22

Winners tally
Glasgow Warriors - 6
Edinburgh - 3

The season has commenced



Last edited by A Simply Mesmeric Try on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 4:23 pm; edited 40 times in total (Reason for editing : Added links to YouTube playlists of Pro12 highlights)

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:50 pm

He's playing at 13 to accommodate club stalwart Billy Twelvetrees - I suspect that's where he is going to be played longterm unfortunately.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:52 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:He's playing at 13 to accommodate club stalwart Billy Twelvetrees - I suspect that's where he is going to be played longterm unfortunately.

Who is, frankly, garbage.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:55 pm

I'd more go for solid yet unspectacular!

From speaking to Gloucester fans on here it sounds like playing Matt Scott at 13 is the lesser of two evils compared to playing him at 12, not playing Twelvetrees, and having someone else in the 13 shirt.

As long as Matt gets regular gametime and stay fit that would be a real bonus to be fair!

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 1:00 pm

I don't know, some of the games I've seen with him in a Gloucester shirt he's had moments that were almost comically bad. I suppose averaged out over a season solid yet unspectacular might be fairer.

Certainly if Scott can stay fit it'll be a bonus, though I'm not sure playing permanently at 13 is going to help his international ambitions long term

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by Majestic83 on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 1:45 pm

Saw this article about Edinburgh's newest Fijian. Sounds like he should be in Scotland next week, waiting to get visa's sorted for his wife and daughter.

http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=368643

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by George Carlin on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:24 pm

Majestic83 wrote:Saw this article about Edinburgh's newest Fijian. Sounds like he should be in Scotland next week, waiting to get visa's sorted for his wife and daughter.

http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=368643
Wow. So he is coming. There is no denying that he was a main member of that Fiji 7s side which kicked our arse in that Olympic final.

Has Solly finally realised that Fijians in Scottish rugby is a marriage made in heaven? Roseola and Mata promise very good things.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:55 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Saw this article about Edinburgh's newest Fijian. Sounds like he should be in Scotland next week, waiting to get visa's sorted for his wife and daughter.

http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=368643
Wow. So he is coming. There is no denying that he was a main member of that Fiji 7s side which kicked our arse in that Olympic final.

Has Solly finally realised that Fijians in Scottish rugby is a marriage made in heaven? Roseola and Mata promise very good things.

I really hope there's a change in playing style on the cards. Having these guys chasing up and unders for 80 minutes strikes me as a complete waste of talent.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by IanBru on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 4:59 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'd more go for solid yet unspectacular!
I'll be honest - I absolutely hate Twelvetrees, and for a reason that's not even remotely his fault.

Deep in my past, when I sold PI insurance policies to law firms (sorry FES, GC, et al), I had this really odious boss, ex-army chap, like David Brent on cocaine, who delighted in making horrendously crap, inappropriate jokes all bloody day. Eventually, when I was still on the phone at 11pm, he bounded up to me, high as a kite:
“Hey, hey, hey, IAN!”
“Hello Mike. I don’t like you.”
“Do you know what we call Billy Twelvetrees in the stands at London Irish?” [Mike thought he was Irish]
“I don’t know, Mike. When are you going away?”
“We call him Billy Thirty Six”
“Wow. There’s a shiny penny on the pavement ten floors down.”
“D’you know why?”
“I don’t know, Mike. Look, the window’s open.”
“It’s because they’re Irish! Eh? EHHHH??”
“Thanks Mike. Good talking to you, as ever.”

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 5:32 pm

Just keep those memories handy. As a lawyer it's always helpful to remember from time to time that there are worse jobs out there!

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 2:08 pm

Good article on the BBC Sport website about Edinburgh - if we can't make Top 6 this season I don't think we ever will!

Certainly summarises the bleak tenure under Solomons very well, and there are some interestign incites from Tim Visser.

BBC Sport wrote:Alan Solomons was savouring the succulent taste of a second derby victory over Glasgow in a week when he made one of his bolder statements as Edinburgh's head coach.

The gap, he proclaimed, between his fluctuating side and their rivals along the M8, then-defending Pro12 champions, was no more.

Edinburgh were far from brilliant, but with back-to-back 1872 Cup victories seized in fractious dogfights, Solomons reckoned his power-laden pragmatists had gobbled up ground on their inter-city foes.

That was back in early January, with Edinburgh sitting pretty in fourth place, in fine shape to make good on their top-six target, or better.

But four months on, it was Solomons' side whose season petered out with a maddening collapse at home to Cardiff Blues, consigning them to ninth place, while the Warriors saw play-off combat for a fifth successive season.

For the capital club, this was a familiar role in the dynamic of Scottish rugby.

Edinburgh & Glasgow in Pro12 - last five years
Season Edinburgh Glasgow
2015-16 9th 3rd
2014-15 8th 1st (champions)
2013-14 8th 2nd (finalists)
2012-13 10th 3rd
2011-12 11th 4th
Sacrificing style for stability

Solomons cannot fairly be judged on his first season, 2013-14, at the helm of a ship taking on water by the gallon. His late arrival in August due to commitments in Super Rugby, the ramshackle crew he inherited, and the upheaval he oversaw render that unforgiving campaign almost a complete write-off.

But Edinburgh's established Harlem Globetrotters approach to attacking, and general disregard for anything resembling a co-ordinated defence, were no longer tolerated.

The South African sacrificed style for stability - and that seemed sensible given the circumstances that confronted him. It is under these auspices that raw talents such as back-rows Jamie Ritchie and Magnus Bradbury and full-back Blair Kinghorn have followed Ben Toolis and Sam Hidalgo-Clyne in emerging from the ranks.

But while the last two seasons have brought an increase in their Pro12 points tally - from 38 in 2013-14, to 48 the following year, to 54 last season - the rugby has remained dogmatic and unimaginative.

Ben Toolis tackles James Davies
Edinburgh's defence has been firm, but their try-scoring record is poor
Solomons' belligerent Edinburgh had the league's third-best defence last season for points conceded; joint-second for tries conceded.

Their pack - littered with front-five Test operators and bludgeoning ball-carriers - is as mean as any in the Pro12.

But it is the failure to build on this excellent platform that has dragged them down. They scored 41 tries last season; seven of the eight teams above them - bar the Scarlets - managed more than 50.

'It kind of gets predictable'

"At the start, we were playing an up-front style where it was round-the-corner rugby, forwards carrying hard, and it gets kind of predictable," recalls Tim Visser, the Scotland wing at Edinburgh for the first two years of Solomons' reign, now at Harlequins.

Tim Visser
Tim Visser was a prolific try-scorer at Edinburgh
"At one point, the opposition knew [back-row] Dave Denton was coming every second phase after set-piece ball, and they were waiting for him and trying to smash him.

"You need to be a little more diverse nowadays. Some of the best teams in the world struggle to play that way - everyone's big, everyone can tackle, and you can't offer the same thing every time.

"I think one of the problems Edinburgh has maybe had is they become a little bit one-dimensional. Suddenly they are expected to play [expansive] rugby, or they need to, but they don't know how to because they never practise it in training.

"That was certainly the case when I was there. You can grind out games and it can win you games - we went over to Munster in the start of my last season and put them away at Thomond Park, which we hadn't done for years - but on the other hand, most teams can handle that sort of stuff now.

"You need that bit of flair to do something special and win a game. That wasn't always there at Edinburgh because it wasn't something we practised."

Excuses for failure?

To counter his poor report card, and his team's wild oscillations in form and results, the 66-year-old ex-lawyer Solomons has a well-practised spiel of mitigating circumstances.

He has been deprived of big players - Nasi Manu, a Super Rugby-winner, Cornell du Preez, the box-office back-row, and Grant Gilchrist, a former Scotland captain, for vast swathes of his tenure. Others, like Denton - two months into last season - have moved south, with Matt Scott following suit this summer, and not necessarily by Solomons' hand.

Nasi Manu & Grant Gilchrist
Nasi Manu and Grant Gilchrist have both incurred long lay-offs through injury
But Glasgow did without Mark Bennett and Alex Dunbar for a significant chunk of their Pro12-winning season. And even when their superstars are absent, there's a coherence and fluency at Scotstoun that Edinburgh seldom muster.

The fear is that Edinburgh under Solomons are stagnating and shackled. Too wooden, too rigid. The South African has had three years to develop his squad. In the same three years, Pat Lam took Connacht, Ireland's ugly duckling, from eighth place to the Pro12 title.

"Of course you've got to keep your international players, and it's a shame to see people like that going," reflects Visser. "I myself didn't really want to go.

"It's always hard if you can't keep hold of your core players. Denton and Scott are two very key players they've let go. Are you going to find anything as good? Probably not.

"But it's a business, a job, and you've got to take some of the better offers on the table. You can't blame the SRU for losing players on the other end of things.

Matt Scott
Matt Scott will play his first game for Gloucester this weekend
"But Glasgow are proving you can have a competitive squad with a similar budget. You've got to be clever with your signings. They've signed one or two gems that can make a real difference. That is all part of it."

New home comforts at Myreside?

Some players have expressed frustration at Edinburgh's present living arrangement - a somewhat awkward house-share with Scottish Rugby, where their bedfellows are also their bosses.

And when the Scotland squad descend en masse to use the facilities, Edinburgh cram into the changing rooms at Murrayfield Wanderers, where the showers don't always run hot.

A move in January to Myreside, with its more modest confines, should help forge a clearer club identity, and finally rid Edinburgh of the ignominy of playing before 4,000 fans in a 67,000-capacity stadium.

The glaring caveat is that it's tricky to build such a brand without the thrills to match.

Make or break?

Last year, and the year before that, Edinburgh's goal was a top-half berth, and a seat at Europe's top table.

Now their ambitions are loftier - despite the failures. "Minimum top-four", declares Fraser McKenzie, the lock. "We can make the top two, even top of the table", argues Rory Sutherland, the prop.

If it sounds like clinical propaganda, there is a genuine lament here. If Edinburgh have the players, why don't they have the gumption or guile to mount a realistic tilt at the play-offs?

WP Nel, Ross Ford, Al Dickinson
The likes of WP Nel, left, part of an all-Scotland Edinburgh front-row, could depart at the season's end.
Maybe this will be the season when talk of evolution brings tangible reward.

Solomons is likely to move on at the end of it, while cherished out-of-contract assets like WP Nel and John Hardie, two of the first and most pivotal names on Vern Cotter's Scotland teamsheet, may follow him out of Murrayfield.

And if this is to be another stale campaign of hollow promises, Solomons' reign will be remembered only for excuses.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 2:35 pm

It's a good honest article, and interesting to hear Visser say that he didn't really want to move on. For all his faults as a player, he gave us a key attacking edge for a number of years.

It really is a big season for Solomons. Thus far his tenure has not been a success, and only a marginal improvement on the disaster that preceded it. He needs a top 6 finish.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 2:44 pm

It really is a difficult one as there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we are much better than the post HK semi-final Bradley era and Solomons' first season, but our league position suggests otherwise.

On the face of it we have gained more league points every year that Solomons has been in charge, but as the league has been more competitive across the board this hasn't led to improved league position.

I genuinely think that our last season hinged on 2 critical moments that, if they had gone the right way, may have led to us getting a top 6 spot - the botched Munster drop goal at home and the incredibly dodgy last minute touch judge intervention away to Scarlets. From memory if we had won those games instead of agonisingly lost them we would have gone into the last game of the season just needing to beat the Blues to get 6th spot. I'd hope to God that if we had something to play for in that game we wouldn't have seen the capitulation in the 2nd half that we actually saw.

So in my mind we really weren't far away last season, although I'm sure we weren't the only team to have a few shoulda coulda woulda moments. Fine margins and we lost several games that we really should have won relatively easily - you can't do that if you want to be Top 6. Saying that, I'm sure we also had a few lucky breaks of our own (2 wins over Glasgow weren't 'lucky' but they were certainly unexpected!).

There is absolutely no doubting however that our style of play has been cronically conservative and he simply has to get us scoring tries - I think we only got 2 try BPs. Even those 2 BP wins were utterly retched affairs slogging it out and stumbling over the line for a late 4th try.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 3:59 pm

The lack of try bonus points is a real killer for us. We dominated countless games last season but found it hard to translate that into scoreboard dominance. We rarely had a comfortable final quarter in games last season, and found new ways to keep poor teams in the game against us.

A common trend was reducing the opposition to 14 or 13 men through scrum penalty yellow cards, only to manage not to score the necessary points in the following ten minutes. We need to sharpen up the backs this season. Hopefully the new centres and Scholes will be a big step.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by EST on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 8:28 pm

Matt Scott(12) has scored twice in the first half for Gloucester, looking very sharp indeed.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by George Carlin on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 8:54 pm

EST wrote:Matt Scott(12) has scored twice in the first half for Gloucester, looking very sharp indeed.
Yes, he's looking good - his hit led to the 4th try too.

Let's hope he doesn't 'do a Chris Paterson' and be completely gash in every other game he ever plays for Gloucester.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 9:40 pm

Gloucester give away 4 second half tries somehow and lose the game - was like watching Edinburgh play!

Maybe it was all Matt Scott's fault...

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by George Carlin on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 10:01 pm

Jon Welsh just conceded a penalty in the 81st minute against Sale Sharks. If the Sale kicker had nailed it, Welsh's side would have lost. 

Thankfully as a former Weegie he leads a charmed life cos the tiny dude missed and the Falcons won.

First time in 9 years Newcastle has won its opening day match so well done to them.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 9:05 am

Dave Denton is playing at 7 for Bath today! Shocked

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by jimbopip on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 10:27 am

I just know that at the next Parents' Evening I shall find myself saying,

"No, no Mrs Smith young Paul isn't necessarily suffering from ADHD; it's just that his essays do have a certain Townsendian logic to them."

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by jimbopip on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 10:32 am

A modern day Gregorian chant,

"One Richie Vernon, there's only one Richie Vernon
So it's Dunbar at 13 and Bennett on the bench..."

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by George Carlin on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 6:18 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Dave Denton is playing at 7 for Bath today! Shocked
Living proof that Claire Baldwin and Francois Louw are, apparently, interchangeable.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 6:20 pm

Well they won away to Saints!

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by George Carlin on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 6:34 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well they won away to Saints!
So it's official.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by A Simply Mesmeric Try on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 6:46 pm

Half time

Connacht 5 - 13 Glasgow Warriors

First half happenings in Galway:

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by A Simply Mesmeric Try on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 6:51 pm

60mins gone

Connacht 5 - 34 Glasgow Warriors

3rd quarter has been a blast.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 6:54 pm


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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by A Simply Mesmeric Try on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 6:57 pm

balls. looking at one thread and posting in another.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by George Carlin on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 6:00 am

So what are Edinburgh's problems? I am not being funny. Can someone who watched all of the Blues game put their finger on them and articulate these in a sweary and tearful manner?

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 9:04 am

Well interestingly Solomons blamed the forwards for not giving the backs a good platform and said we didn’t have enough ball and a stable platform, which is probably fair.

Basically it was the worst of what we saw last season – crippling basic mistakes, horribly slow attacking play, porous defence, no clear gameplan or shape, no fire or passion (which is the worst part) and just all-round headless chicken stuff.

McKenzie and Gilchrist were anonymous and I don’t think work as a combo.  I’l give them the benefit of the doubt as they are both just back from a longterm layoff, but again you’ve got to question Solomons picking them both because of that.  Toolis is a fine player and is fighting fit – why not pair him with either? Gilchrist was running the lineout and there were 3 or 4 times that he jumped and no one lifted him.

Nasi Manu went off early and left us a Ritchie-Watson-Bradbury backrow, which was very inexperienced and lightweight against a powerful and street savvy Blues backrow. Watson looks even more lightweight than last season if anything! Ritchie also still is a beanpole and had a bad game, and not just his yellow cards.

It was probably a 2 out of 10 for the backline, and that’s maybe being generous.  Rasolea and Tofilau showed individual glimpses (Rasolea with a  great line for our try) but there was no coherent attacking play.  Weir was a complete headless chicken, although he did have a few decent kicks from hand.  As was discussed on the match thread, he was the only playmaker in that backline so he had to do it all – unfortunately he did badly.

Poor Rory Scholes – first he has to watch a young Ulster wing tear it up on Friday, playing in the spot that he would have had, and now he’s surely realised that he’s joined a bad team for wingers.  I don’t think our back 3 were ever actually passed the ball, and they only actually touched the ball when it was kicked to them. Brown and Scholes did fine with what they were given but that wasn’t very much.  Same for Bryce.

So basically there is a hell of a lot to work on!

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 9:40 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well interestingly Solomons blamed the forwards for not giving the backs a good platform and said we didn’t have enough ball and a stable platform, which is probably fair.

Basically it was the worst of what we saw last season – crippling basic mistakes, horribly slow attacking play, porous defence, no clear gameplan or shape, no fire or passion (which is the worst part) and just all-round headless chicken stuff.

McKenzie and Gilchrist were anonymous and I don’t think work as a combo.  I’l give them the benefit of the doubt as they are both just back from a longterm layoff, but again you’ve got to question Solomons picking them both because of that.  Toolis is a fine player and is fighting fit – why not pair him with either? Gilchrist was running the lineout and there were 3 or 4 times that he jumped and no one lifted him.

Nasi Manu went off early and left us a Ritchie-Watson-Bradbury backrow, which was very inexperienced and lightweight against a powerful and street savvy Blues backrow. Watson looks even more lightweight than last season if anything! Ritchie also still is a beanpole and had a bad game, and not just his yellow cards.

It was probably a 2 out of 10 for the backline, and that’s maybe being generous.  Rasolea and Tofilau showed individual glimpses (Rasolea with a  great line for our try) but there was no coherent attacking play.  Weir was a complete headless chicken, although he did have a few decent kicks from hand.  As was discussed on the match thread, he was the only playmaker in that backline so he had to do it all – unfortunately he did badly.

Poor Rory Scholes – first he has to watch a young Ulster wing tear it up on Friday, playing in the spot that he would have had, and now he’s surely realised that he’s joined a bad team for wingers.  I don’t think our back 3 were ever actually passed the ball, and they only actually touched the ball when it was kicked to them. Brown and Scholes did fine with what they were given but that wasn’t very much.  Same for Bryce.

So basically there is a hell of a lot to work on!

I have to say that team looks very poorly coached. How Solomons clings on is beyond me, from what I remember Bradley went pretty quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if Solomons is booted out mid-season, because at the moment he's sitting on the porch of last chance saloon with his head in his hands.

Watching Bristol on Saturday was an absolute delight, and I have to say though Robinson was and always is a terrible international coach, he's an excellent club coach and Edinburgh have seriously spiralled downhill since his tenure ended, I hope the same isn't true for Glasgow with Toony.

I'd like to see a BT premiership coach get a chance at Edinburgh. Maybe look to Phil Smith, John Dalziel etc. A coach search won't be so much like 'moths to a flame' for Edinburgh, more like 'midges to a flickering candle' so I think as has been said in previous seasons, it's time to blood a premiership coach. It may go jubblies up but it'll be a cheap man sausage up.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 9:47 am

Someone made a good point about this Edinburgh side, we look worse than the sum or our parts.  Good coaches take the players they have and make them better, Solomons has taken some good players and made them worse.

Look at Scott, two tries and a crunching tackle that set up another try on his debut, Laidlaw looked a new player when he left us.  Visser for his last season or two with us under Solly looked a shadow of his former self, and is now finding form again.  SHC has got worse the longer he has played under Solly.

We have good players.  Our front row is a match for anyone, our pack in general is full of good players (Ritchie needs time), but our game plan is so limited and the players look so devoid of confidence or any clue as to what they are supposed to be doing.

Weir does not help us with this, he can't control a game, his passing on Saturday was poor, with the majority of his passes to feet or behind the player he was intending to pass to and others massively telegraphed, against better teams (no offesnse Cardiff you more then deserved your win) he will be targeted and chances are will give away more than a few interceptions.  At Glasgow he got away with this a lot, because of the quality around him, at International level he's been shown up because of the quality of opposition, & with us he's going to struggle, he's not going to have a Horne/Dunbar/Bennett etc etc alongside him to cover for him.

I know it's only one game this season and folk will say let's see how it goes because it's still early, but it's not.  We've been the same for the majority of Solomons time with us and we're getting worse.  There were literally no positives last night and I fear this season will see us right down the bottom of the league.  We did better last season primarily because of the world cup and the bigger teams losing a lot of international players, this season we don't have that initial buffer to help us get points.

We need a change and we needed it last season (if not before), there is nothing to lose by changing the coach now, it's not like we can get worse, so make the change, write this season off as a development year with someone new and hope that by the time the move to myerside happens we're playing rugby that doesn't make you want to rip your eyes out.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 9:51 am

I think Hodge has to cop a lot of criticism too - he has been at the club long enough now that skills and attack play should have improved, and it really hasn't. Compare Glasgow's tries where they ran straight, drew the man, and completed 3 on 2s, 4 on 3s etc to score simple tries with good passing. We shuttled across the pitch, passed badly, didn't draw any men and most of the time just ran head first into the opposition.

We've not improved in that regard for 3 years!

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 10:07 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think Hodge has to cop a lot of criticism too - he has been at the club long enough now that skills and attack play should have improved, and it really hasn't.  Compare Glasgow's tries where they ran straight, drew the man, and completed 3 on 2s, 4 on 3s etc to score simple tries with good passing. We shuttled across the pitch, passed badly, didn't draw any men and most of the time just ran head first into the opposition.

We've not improved in that regard for 3 years!

Is that down to Hodge, Solly or both? I only ask because whilst Hodge might be training the lads to the highest level possible, if Solly's game plan is a turgid keep it away from the backs and hoof it up field at every opportunity then Hodge is largely redundant. I'm not saying that's definitely the case, but remember with Scotland Toonie was our backs/attack coach and we looked like we couldn't score if our lives depended on it. Now he's in total charge of Glasgow and as you say they look decisive and scoring for fun.

Yeah Hodge could be at fault, but having seen the game plan of AS for the last few years, i wouldn't be surprised if he's preventing the players from actually using anything they are learning from hodge. Mind you if he's skills coach and given we're still shocking at passing/catching or doing anything other than running into the first opposition player available then yeah he probably needs to take the blame as well.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 10:12 am

Yeah there's no doubting that the gameplan and the lack of platform provided by the forwards didn't help, but you know that if Glasgow's backline was playing on Friday we would have looked a hell of a lot better!

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 10:26 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Yeah there's no doubting that the gameplan and the lack of platform provided by the forwards didn't help, but you know that if Glasgow's backline was playing on Friday we would have looked a hell of a lot better!

To be fair that's not saying much considering how bad we were, but yeah get your point.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by EST on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 10:39 am

George Carlin wrote:So what are Edinburgh's problems? I am not being funny. Can someone who watched all of the Blues game put their finger on them and articulate these in a sweary and tearful manner?

George, think of all the worst parts of Solomons previous three years. Ponderous, lacking invention or direction with basic skills letting them down again and again.

Solomons has come out in the press and said 'let's not panic', but in such a tight league a few more performances like that will end any ambition of a top 6 finish.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 3:28 pm

Viliame Mata's signed a two year deal with Edinburgh, finally confirmed on the clubs twitter feed

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 3:31 pm

Edinburgh site wrote:Edinburgh Rugby today confirmed the signing of Olympic Gold winning Fiji 7s lock Viliame ‘Bill’ Mata on a two-year deal, subject to medical and visa.



Mata, 24, joins the club after his part in this summer’s games in Rio, where he scored a try in his side’s 43-7 victory over Team GB in the final.

He said: “My goal was to win the gold medal for Fiji and we got it. Now my goal is to perform well for my new team.

“I am excited about signing for Edinburgh Rugby, and am looking forward to playing for the club.

“I am also excited about arriving in the city and meeting my new team mates.”

After switching codes from rugby league, Mata has represented current World Rugby Sevens Series champions Fiji at nine events on the circuit, scoring 55 points through 11 tries.

The powerful middle-row, who can also play back-row, stands at 1.97 metres tall and weighs 116kg.

Mata further bolsters Edinburgh Rugby’s pack for the 2016/17 season, joining new forward signings Nick Beavon, Lewis Carmichael, Kevin Bryce and Viliami Fihaki at the capital club.

Edinburgh Rugby Head Coach Alan Solomons said: “We are delighted to welcome Bill to the club.

“He is a hugely talented player who was part of the Fiji 7s team that recently won gold at the Rio Olympics.

“He is big, powerful and explosive and I believe he will add huge value to the team.”


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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by George Carlin on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 5:12 pm

He played league. So that's put to rest any fears that I had about him not being used to taking heavy contact.

It's this year or it's never, Alan Solomons. 

Thanks for all of the replies to my question, above.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 5:20 pm

I feel the need to indulge in a Schizoid-esque "Andy Robinson Rant" regarding Solomons, but I'll hold off for now!!

Utterly awful start to the season. Not sure this is going to get better until we have a change of coaching staff and direction. This doesn't bode well for assistant coaches looking for a promotion.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by George Carlin on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 5:28 pm

To be completely fair and to move away from the broader position that the glass is not just half empty but also belongs to the village madman who's not happy you've just drunk out of it; if you add:

- Hidalgo-Clyne
- Tovey
- Hardie
- Du Preez
- B. Toolis

to the starting line up, then you start to feel more optimistic already. 

One thing is clear - two glacially slow, one-note lumps like Gilchrist and MacKenzie do not work well together. Neither can play on the ground and whilst both are good lifters, there is an argument that neither is athletic enough to challenge for opposition line-out ball. 

Let's start with Gilchrist and Toolis. And where is Bresler with his adult entertainment mullet?

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 5:30 pm

George Carlin wrote:To be completely fair and to move away from the broader position that the glass is not just half empty but also belongs to the village madman who's not happy you've just drunk out of it; if you add:

- Hidalgo-Clyne
- Tovey
- Hardie
- Du Preez
- B. Toolis

to the starting line up, then you start to feel more optimistic already. 

One thing is clear - two glacially slow, one-note lumps like Gilchrist and MacKenzie do not work well together. Neither can play on the ground and whilst both are good lifters, there is an argument that neither is athletic enough to challenge for opposition line-out ball. 

Let's start with Gilchrist and Toolis. And where is Bresler with his adult entertainment mullet?


Add Dickinson as well. Sutherland is coming along nicely, but Dickinson is very much first choice.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 5:40 pm

Bresler has had surgery - don't know how long he's out for.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by EST on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 8:50 am

I think therein lies the rub, Solomons could add Naholo, Kuridrani and Barrett to the squad, and I am still not sure they would get anywhere under his archaic tactics.

Still, it was the first game of the season, I'll try and not go to overthetop just yet.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 10:27 am

EST wrote:I think therein lies the rub, Solomons could add Naholo, Kuridrani and Barrett to the squad, and I am still not sure they would get anywhere under his archaic tactics.

Still, it was the first game of the season, I'll try and not go to overthetop just yet.

Come off it, this is 606v2. Nothing like a good overthetop reaction.

Edinburgh's start to the season was comprehensively the worst start to the season by any team ever. Not since the day the New Club allowed a comprehensive school alumnus through its doors have I been so utterly appalled.

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 11:20 am

Never will a post have been received with less enthusiasm, but who fancies doing an Edinburgh match thread for Friday....? Tumbleweed

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by EWT Spoons on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 11:26 am

I did the last one and look how that turned out...

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by Riskysports on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 12:32 pm

Is the Edinburgh highlight each year the 1872 game?

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by MacKnocked-on on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 12:32 pm

I'm a bit worried about Toolis, everyone can see he's a good player, apart perhaps from Solly and Cotter. He should really be starting for Edinburgh and he's unlucky to get overlooked for Swinson when it comes to the Scotland squad. With the arrival of the new Fijian to Edinburgh will he get even less game time?

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

Post by George Carlin on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 1:03 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:I did the last one and look how that turned out...
Laugh

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Re: Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

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