Allardyce's England

First topic message reminder :

Big Sam is set to announce his squad this evening, with the captaincy sorted with that. It has been revealed that he wanted to call up Steven N'Zonzi, but a performance for the France u21s put paid to that.

In an exciting list of players expected to break in the squad, all will be relieved to see that Phil Jagielka, Andros Townsend, Danny Drinkwater and Jermain Defoe look to be joining Shaw as England returnees. Or did I mean to say that list is madly depressing, bar the talented left back.

Lallana is a lovely player but he needs to improve in the final third. His shot was still rather weak, although credit for the calm play. I'd keep him in the side, but he needs to be supported by more dynamic players.

Dont get Rooney's role. He was played there, he didnt drift, he was actually really disciplined. Its sad to me that hes our best passer, because he isnt a midfielder.

Can't see Dier being useful for us in qualifying as a midfielder. Think hes a centre back still, which is fine cos he plays as a third centre back half the time for Spurs, dropping in and making numbers well, but for England we are dominant and need better passes. Drinkwater, Alli and Noble must all be watching in pain as Henderson and Dier play there in these games.

Vardy and Antonio can feel disappointed to see Kane, Sturridge and (for Iron Mic) Theo getting minutes.

Struggling a bit with Allardyce's post-match comments about Rooney. Firstly, how can a manager retain any credibility when he says he can't tell one of his players where to play? Secondly, Rooney doesn't seem to have had any difficulty in playing behind the front man for United this season so why would he have randomly decided to play in midfield for England? 

Not promising early signs.

I'm really surprised how poorly Allardyce is handling the media, he's giving them so much rope so that he can hang himself with. 

First he said he'd be happy with a draw and then absolutely ludicrously said that he can't tell Rooney where to play. It's really absurd. I wonder whether he's actually in awe at the moment of the position, I was hoping he might, at the very least, be able to put them in their place but it seems he's basically going to allow them to do what they want.

As it is, I thought Rooney was poor from that position, I don't think he's cut out for it. For me, he needs to be dropped but as Allardyce has now admitted Rooney can play where he wants, I doubt we'll see him dropped for a long time.

F*cking shambles. Walcott? FFS that lad could barely pass wind. Ditto Sterling. Lallana again the only one with any sort of vision and desire. Harry Kane, yes he's a nice guy and your nan would like him but FFS gets Sturridge and/or Vardy on instead. Rooney yet again passing balls 400000 yards for Walker to f*ck it up.

Absolutely dreadful.

As I understand it, it was actually worse than just saying I can't control him. He effectively said that Rooney knows better than him. How can he possibly have any credibility left in the dressing room?

I think it's also fair to say that Rooney has never struck me as the type of guy who would ignore his manager's instructions. He's put in some disciplined displays out of position in the past. Did Allardyce speak to him at halftime (or even from the touch line mid game) to explain he wasn't in the right position? If he still didn't do what he was meant to do, why wasn't he then hauled off?

What team would people put out if everyone available? With a 4-2-3-1 I think I'd play:

Butland

Clyne
Stones
Smalling
Shaw

Dier
Drinkwater

Barkley
Alli
Rooney

Kane (but on current form Vardy)

That would rely heavily on fullbacks providing width but we simply don't have any wingers I think are good enough.

I'd rather go extreme

------------------Butland-----------------
------Smalling---Stones--Cahill---------
Walker-----------------------------Shaw
--------Lallana-----Dier-----Alli----------
-------------Kane--------Vardy-----------

Born Slippy wrote:As I understand it, it was actually worse than just saying I can't control him. He effectively said that Rooney knows better than him. How can he possibly have any credibility left in the dressing room?

I think it's also fair to say that Rooney has never struck me as the type of guy who would ignore his manager's instructions. He's put in some disciplined displays out of position in the past. Did Allardyce speak to him at halftime (or even from the touch line mid game) to explain he wasn't in the right position? If he still didn't do what he was meant to do, why wasn't he then hauled off?

Totally agree. I was gobsmacked when I saw the post-match interview.

Just John wrote:
I'd rather go extreme

------------------Butland-----------------
------Smalling---Stones--Cahill---------
Walker-----------------------------Shaw
--------Lallana-----Dier-----Alli----------
-------------Kane--------Vardy-----------

I wouldn't mind seeing that lineup in action!


As to yesterday's match, as Hoddle said, it was the Euros all over again. It was as if Roy never resigned.

I hate to be overly critical of any manager after only 1 competitive match but it was pretty desperate for the first 60-70 minutes.

Exactly the same problems evident in every area of the pitch. Too slow, too predictable, too much sideways and backwards passing. No-one willing to get forward to give our midfield / defence passing options. No-one getting in behind the Slovakian defence.

When we did attack we always seemed to rely on lightning fast runs into the area, requiring precision passing, which simply failed to work 90% of the time. Too often our forward passes went astray, Crosses sailed into empty space.

And I lost count of the number of times players tried getting shots off through walls of players, or when they had an opponent bearing down on them to charge down / block the shot.

We had 20 shots at goal, but only 5 on target, which pretty much sums up England's efforts. As does the fact we only managed to score in the 5th minute of stoppage time (congrats to The Llama on his first international goal).

We did improve over the last 20 minutes, after our subs had come on and we did spend a fair bit of time camped in the Slovakia half, but still so much of our play was ineffectual.


Agree to some extent with Allardyce's comment that Slovakia "parked the bus", but then England need to find ways to deal with that...as has been said many times before. They presented very little in the way of an attacking threat but frustrated England...even when they were down to 10 men.

Skrtel was an absolute disgrace and should have been sent off before half time.

Ref was also a bloody disgrace - a total "homer". Quick to award fouls in favour of Slovakia but gave virtually nothing to England. Took a blatant stamp by Skrtel right in front of him before he showed the red card.


Anyway, I hope this isn't a sign of things to come. Its still very early days in Allardyce's reign and I'm still hopeful of seeing some significant changes before the end of this qualifying campaign.

Very disappointing. I was expecting England to be transformed with the defensive qualities of Italy, the organising qualities of the Germans, and the attacking flair of the South Americans and win comfortably with a 4-0 score line.

Allardyce seems to want to introduce a new way of managing the team during the match - give the players more control over where and how they play. Allardyce is reported to have said many of the players have more experience at international level than he has so he is giving them more room to play as they want to - with him just discussing with them tactics and strategy and picking the starting line up and substitutes.

Nore Staat wrote:Very disappointing.  I was expecting England to be transformed with the defensive qualities of Italy, the organising qualities of the Germans, and the attacking flair of the South Americans and win comfortably with a 4-0 score line.

Allardyce seems to want to introduce a new way of managing the team during the match - give the players more control over where and how they play.   Allardyce is reported to have said many of the players have more experience at international level than he has so he is giving them more room to play as they want to - with him just discussing with them tactics and strategy and picking the starting line up and substitutes.

Thats cheered me up - thanks!

We've had the "Wally with the Brolley" and now the "Loony struggling with Rooney"

Allardyce looked like a bloke who thought, "F*ck me, I only applied for the is job as a giggle, I didn't think they'd take me seriously!"

I don't know if I want to play Lallana at all or actually build the team around him. He's so good and so frustrating all in one.

Forster is my keeper. Think he's the room to improve and be immovable there.

Shaw/Cresswell should be our left back choice from now on. Rose didn't redeem himself at the end.

Clyne is easily the better right back.

Stones and Dier would be my centre back pairing but it ain't gonna happen. Smalling by default to go alongside Stones.

Dier and Drinkwater or Noble. Both better than using Wilshere or Henderson.

Antonio Lallana Sterling

Vardy. 

If Rooney has to play then play him with Dier. 

Henderson needs to consider what player he wants to become because at the moment he's a nothing. His passing isn't good enough, he isn't a terrier in midfield and his runs from deep are barely happening, and they're either mistimed or end in nothing.

In Henderson's defence, I do get the impression he's being a little stunted by both club and international managers. His strength is his pressing and his through balls but he's been made to sit a little deeper and try dictate things which simply isn't his strength. 

He also spent much of last year injured, he was fantastic in both 13/14 and 14/15 and last year really hurt him as he played injured, then spent a long time out and hasn't really had a rest since.

If Wilshere can stay fit for a spell, he walks back into the team. We don't have another midfielder close to his class. I went for Drinkwater as the second midfielder above but that's from a lack of real quality options pending Wilshere playing on a consistent basis.

Said it after the Euros and maintain it is the case the issue is not the system or the formation it is the completely overinflated view of how good an extremely ordinary set of players actually are. Should Henderson play deep, should he play in the hole, the quarterback role, as a more advanced number 10? Decisions, decisions, maybe it does not matter an arse, maybe he is just an ordinary footballer. Don't think this is about Henderson, a player who stirs nothing in me other than complete indifference, you can replace his name with pretty much all 11 and the point remains the same.

Don't get me wrong being ordinary is not necessarily an impediment to winning stuff, being ordinary and believing yourself to be fantastic is fatal though. Look at Wales at the Euros. Coleman went in knowing he had two players of genuine quality, Bale and Ramsey. As such he gave Ledley and Allen simple instructions, run your nuts off, win tackles, give the ball to Bale and Ramsey and it worked. Perish the thought England should make up for their lack of ability with graft, physicality or anything as ridiculous as a clear gameplan.

England arrogantly believe the Sky fed BS that such stuff is beneath them. England entered the Euros with two ordinary centre halves and a poor keeper. Under those circumstances it should have been acknowledged they need cover and help. The two full backs should have been asked to stay deeper, not get forward so much to provide the cover for the centre halves inefficiencies. However perish the thought we might actually acknowledge one of the stars of the greatest, most watched and exciting league in the world might actually be actually fairly limited. Better to play this sub Spain possession drivel waiting for the likes of Alli or Henderson to pick an Iniesta pass, you may as well be waiting for Robert Mugabe to win the Nobel Peace Prize.

totally agree jeff, said as much before the euros. not got a player anywhere near world class yet likes of croatia and wales have more world class players but its us up with the favorites

To be honest I don't agree with the opinion that we don't have any good players. We tend to over rate and then under rate our players. Italian commentators think we have many good players and should be performing very well at the big tournaments. For them our continual poor performance is completely down to the poor tactical preparation of the players by the mangers and coaches which consequently leads to an insipid uncertain play devoid of ideas and creativity.

Agree with that. What England lack is a real creative genius (possibly Alli may become that player) but the team is made of players holding down starting positions at some of the richest clubs in the world, managed at club level by foreign managers who would immediately jettison them if they didn't consider they were good enough. We clearly don't have as strong a squad as some other countries but they are a lot better than they are producing currently.

The idea that our full backs should have been more defensive in the Euros seems an odd one. England dominated every match (including making Wales look an extremely poor side) but lacked sufficient attacking bite to break through four sides who parked the bus. The full backs were not needed to defend and rightly went forward at every opportunity. I don't recall any of the goals conceded being as a result of the fullbacks pushing on.

Born Slippy wrote:Agree with that. What England lack is a real creative genius (possibly Alli may become that player) but the team is made of players holding down starting positions at some of the richest clubs in the world, managed at club level by foreign managers who would immediately jettison them if they didn't consider they were good enough. We clearly don't have as strong a squad as some other countries but they are a lot better than they are producing currently.

The idea that our full backs should have been more defensive in the Euros seems an odd one. England dominated every match (including making Wales look an extremely poor side) but lacked sufficient attacking bite to break through four sides who parked the bus. The full backs were not needed to defend and rightly went forward at every opportunity. I don't recall any of the goals conceded being as a result of the fullbacks pushing on.

But not the best.

I suppose the question is how many of them have been absolute key player/the best player in the team.

Over the years not many in successful sides.

That is the biggest difference to the side that Eriksson had which did underperform hugely, aside from the goalkeeper every member of that side was a key player for their clubs.

I would agree with Jeff.

I also get annoyed about the inflexibility of our sides. We seem to have one idea and think we're good enough to beat people without ever changing it. Drilling our way monotonously through qualifying doesn't bother me if its a means to an end, but we then play that way after, in friendlies, against better sides. whatever.

Allardyce is so hard to judge in this category. He does really pay attention to his opposition, and loves to outdo someone based on a perceived flaw he has found, but he's also the most stubborn manager I have ever witnessed. Once he feels people don't agree with him he just doubles down.

The full backs bombing on was not put forward as a reason we failed in the Euros. It didn't hurt us because the teams we played were so average they were not able to take advantage of the flaw. It was more put forward as an example of the arrogant tactical inflexibility that seems to infect England managers thinking. Had England not been so woefully inept and stumbled their way through to the later rounds I genuinely believe they would have approached games against teams who very much would have been able to expose these flaws in exactly the same manner.

I might change my team just to have Rashford up front.

England won't learn. Walcott played well for 10 mins, yet achieved nothing, and that'll be his place saved. Still some pine for Wilshere. Henderson gets to coast. Names and the clubs they play for still getting in the way.

The likes of Walcott will do what they always do. Look like a million dollars at 20 year old, but never kick on and fulfil that potential or develop the ability to deliver on a consistent basis. If he was going to do it he'd have done it by now. He'll finish his career with about sixty odd caps and not more than 3 good games in that total.

Big Sam is trending

Forget the bribery or corruption stuff, the line 'and we only had to draw with Iceland to get through' is the highlight

Serious allegations around him.

Would imagine he's dead in the water.

Hilarious if he's sacked after one game.

Also did anybody else notice in the video he's drinking a pint of wine!

If there's any truth in the allegations, which seems pretty black and white, there's no way the FA can retain him.

Wasn't he already stung a few years ago by the Beeb with Redknapp for dodgy dealings?

On the plus side he'll forever be England's greatest ever manager with an 100% record

Steve Bruce must be favourite to replace Big Sam. Hopefully Bruce knows what knockout football actually means, unlike Sam.

Preacher wrote:Wasn't he already stung a few years ago by the Beeb with Redknapp for dodgy dealings?

He was completely cleared I believe.

He sued the beeb as I recall, both he and his son were implicated

Given the FA's stance over Blatter and Platini, they have to be seen to be pro-active or risk looking like hypocrites...Big Sam is a dead man walking!

I don't think he was cleared, I think he planned to sue and never took it to court so the allegations remain:

Sam Allardyce: said that he had placed the matter in the hands of his lawyers. He also confessed: “As a father it is painful to watch your son talk tall and exaggerate his influence for financial gain.”On 25 September he announced that after lengthy discussions his lawyers had advised that "I have a very strong case in relation to the programme, and I am planning to sue the BBC over the false and highly damaging allegations. I have therefore instructed my lawyers to prepare my case against the BBC." Allardyce added that he would discuss the matter with Bolton chairman, Phil Gartside, as well as his wife before he took any final decision.Allardyce has not yet filed any legal action against the BBC, meaning the allegations remain legally unchallenged.

Crimey wrote:Also did anybody else notice in the video he's drinking a pint of wine!

Incredible.

Please don't sack him - least he is interesting. Bruce is as dull as ditchwater. If we're gonna be rubbish we might as well be funny

Exactly.

This is the best thing ever about Big Sam. Can't stand his football, but if he is behaving like this, i 100% want him to continue as England manager.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Crimey wrote:Also did anybody else notice in the video he's drinking a pint of wine!

Incredible.

Please don't sack him - least he is interesting. Bruce is as dull as ditchwater. If we're gonna be rubbish we might as well be funny

The FA have already backtracked on their statement of intent re winning the 2022 World Cup and have settled for us "not being sh!t" I don't think we need this chucklemonkey at the helm making English football even more of a laughing stock do we?

The Times is reporting that he's going to be sacked.

Shoddy appointment in the first place, already shown to be a puppet in awe of the job & his comments regarding Rooney's position were puzzling.

The depressing list of candidates is back, didn't think I'd see this again, until post-Russia

Odds
Bruce 5/2
Pardew 6/1
Howe 8/1
Southgate 9/1
Klinsmann 12/1

It'll be Bruce since no compensation.

Fat Sam back to saving Sunderland.

Jesus the more you hear from this the worse it sounds...particuatly the bit on SSN, about Hodgson etc...hard to see how he can keep his job right now...which is a shame for the bloke, as he has clearly wanted this job for years..

Maybe he and Moyes could do a straight swap. An English-hating Scotsman has as much chance of leading us to glory as any Englishman alive.

wisden wrote:Jesus the more you hear from this the worse it sounds...particuatly the bit on SSN, about Hodgson etc...hard to see how he can keep his job right now...which is a shame for the bloke, as he has clearly wanted this job for years..

F*ck him, arrogant pr!ck should have had the nous to say "thank you, but I feel it wholly inappropriate to be asked questions like this...good day to you, sir!" and walked out of the door. It's Mrs Allardyce I feel sorry for having that £3m per year losing dipsh!t hanging around the house.

Steve Kean is sat somewhere laughing his ar$e off.