England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

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England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 10:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

A bit early, but with squads due to be announced next week thought I'd start a thread to collate all winter tours news...

Firstly it appears the Bangladesh tour will go ahead despite security concerns. I for one am glad of this, gives England a chance to acclimatise to Asian conditions against an improving Bangladesh outfit (especially as England have no planned tour matches in India)

Secondly - it appears Haseeb Hameed will be getting the nod for Bangladesh according to Nick Hoult - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2016/08/29/england-plan-to-call-up-teenage-opener-haseeb-hameed-for-banglad/

Peoples initial thoughts on that?
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 8:31 am

msp83 wrote:I like Ben Stokes a lot, but seems he needs a little bit of growing up. But then, Thre is a section in English cricket management that encourages Anderson like behavior on a cricket field because that helps you play to potential. Ridiculous!

Well quite. Put an Aussie in charge with a remit to instill some Aussie attitude, don't be amazed when they start acting like Australians.

The same thing happened with India some years back when they got fed up with being on the wrong end of Australians bullying tactics. Certain players bought out a nasty snarly streak that did them and their team no favours in the long run, and I dont think seeing Zaheer spitting at peoples feet exactly made the fans feel full of pride either.

Theres a very fine line with these things, and England are in danger of getting too caught up in the drama and distracting themselves rather than the opposition.
With Buttler I do feel its possibly a case of the captaincy, wicket keeping (and constant pressure on him to prove he is a competent glove man) and in the absence of the 3 most senior batsmen carrying the weight of expectation in run getting as well getting a bit much. The stress levels on him must be huge, and in the heat its not unusual to see that translate into grumpiness.
One of the things Morgan has bought as Captain is that air of calmness and quiet confidence. Events on this tour may start to show some of the value he has beyond just his batting.




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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by KO-KING on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 9:53 am

Gooseberry wrote:
msp83 wrote:I like Ben Stokes a lot, but seems he needs a little bit of growing up. But then, Thre is a section in English cricket management that encourages Anderson like behavior on a cricket field because that helps you play to potential. Ridiculous!

Well quite. Put an Aussie in charge with a remit to instill some Aussie attitude, don't be amazed when they start acting like Australians.

The same thing happened with India some years back when they got fed up with being on the wrong end of Australians bullying tactics. Certain players bought out a nasty snarly streak that did them and their team no favours in the long run, and I dont think seeing Zaheer spitting at peoples feet exactly made the fans feel full of pride either.

Theres a very fine line with these things, and England are in danger of getting too caught up in the drama and distracting themselves rather than the opposition.
With Buttler I do feel its possibly a case of the captaincy, wicket keeping (and constant pressure on him to prove he is a competent glove man) and in the absence of the 3 most senior batsmen carrying the weight of expectation in run getting as well getting a bit much. The stress levels on him must be huge, and in the heat its not unusual to see that translate into grumpiness.
One of the things Morgan has bought as Captain is that air of calmness and quiet confidence. Events on this tour may start to show some of the value he has beyond just his batting.




Well with Buttler bangladesh did celebrate like they won the match... Not that it deserved to be fined, and Buttlers reaction probably escalated the situation.

However, I excuse both teams to an extent given the match situation and the way the series has been played in a competitive nature, on top of that humidity and temperature must affect behaviour too... And people do react in the heat of the moment at times

But stokes decided to pop up after a match and instead of separating a mild situation between bairstow and tamim like Shakib and Roy tried to do, he had to act like a idiot and make it worse.

One thing I don't think helps the situation is bangladesh players getting fined and England players not... Buttler got warned... Which I thought was correct, but stokes gets away with it... Just doesn't help with relationship between the teams

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by jimbohammers on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 11:14 am

Why is Dawson not playing?!

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by wisden on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 11:17 am

Rashid 2-7 from 2 overs...on this deck really dont' wanna be chasing more than 220-240 particuatly with the amount of turn rashid is getting...

apparently stokes is getting loose with his 'off spin action'

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 11:28 am

jimbohammers wrote:Why is Dawson not playing?!

Because he's not better than Rashid/Moeen?

Although I would've played him ahead of Plunkett but England seem reticent to pick three spinners

I love Rashid. Bowls three absolute beauties, doesn't get a wicket. Then a rank long hop gets hit straight to cover. Cricket is funny
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by wisden on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 11:37 am

Poopie over from Mo. Bowls too short allows batsmen to ease him off the back foot, then a rank full toss which gets despatched!

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by jimbohammers on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 11:54 am

Its spinning sideways Olly. I know you're not a fan but they are crazy not to play 3 spinners on this surface.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by wisden on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 12:13 pm

Adil has 4-36 with 8 balls left of his spell...Mo is finished 1-42 from 10

bang are 193-6 in the 39th

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 12:18 pm

jimbohammers wrote:Its spinning sideways Olly. I know you're not a fan but they are crazy not to play 3 spinners on this surface.

Yep definitely a missed opportunity selection wise agree on that Ok!
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 12:55 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
jimbohammers wrote:Why is Dawson not playing?!

Because he's not better than Rashid/Moeen?

Although I would've played him ahead of Plunkett but England seem reticent to pick three spinners

I love Rashid. Bowls three absolute beauties, doesn't get a wicket. Then a rank long hop gets hit straight to cover. Cricket is funny

Isn't that also a description of Alis test career (minus the 3 beauties)


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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 12:59 pm

Crumbs Roys out injured is he ... that makes Bangladeshis total look a bit more intimidating given the pitch conditions. Thats England short their entire first choice top 4.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by wisden on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 1:04 pm

277-6 too many me thinks, particaurly given the amount of spin options Bangladesh have..

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 1:20 pm

Open with Butler plz
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by wisden on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 2:07 pm

26-0 after 5... already tension between Billings and Mortaza

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 2:33 pm

The sky a blue, water is wet and James Vince is out for an attractive 30 odd

All is normal in the world
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by dummy_half on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 2:45 pm

Olly

Was he caught playing a cover drive?

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 2:58 pm

England going pretty well so far, still time for a collapse but it would be a major flump to go from 102-1 on the rate to not get 278

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by wisden on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 3:00 pm

Ball not turning anywhere near as much as it was first innings, at the moment..

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by jimbohammers on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 4:06 pm

Bairstow with scores of 0, 35 and 15 this series

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 4:57 pm

jimbohammers wrote:Bairstow with scores of 0, 35 and 15 this series

Definitely not the player in ODI's that he is in Tests

Would imagine Duckett has overtaken him as backup bat now
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 5:30 pm

Chris Woakes just won a match with a straight drive for six

I'm in heaven
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 5:37 pm

Wonderful shot to finish there, and a very composed innings from Stokes too. I've been very impressed by Duckett, he learned quickly from his dismissal in the second game and played the spinners much better today. Billings also played very nicely.

Series wise, England will be disappointed with the contributions of Vince and Bairstow, who made some ok starts but never pushed on. They'll be pleased that Stokes seems to be finding some consistency in ODIs, and with the efforts of Duckett and Billings. Moeen had a poor series, his ODI form really hasn't been too hot of late, particularly with the bat: he had three good chances to make strong contributions in this series, and didn't take any of them, all rather lazy dismissals. With Rashid clearly establishing himself as England's leading spinner in limited overs games, Moeen needs to step up IMO. Seamers all did their bit, Ball was impressive.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by wisden on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 6:04 pm

You would assume that Morgan comes back in for Bairstow, and Hales for Vince...

IMO my side for India odi's is

Roy
Hales
Duckett
Morgan/Billings
Stokes
Buttler (wk) (c)
Moeen
Rashid
Woakes
Willey
Plunkett

12th man Jake Ball

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 6:17 pm

You'd drop Root? That's um out there
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by wisden on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 6:20 pm

yeah i forgot about poor joe root lol, he would be in the side at 3, with duckett 4

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by wisden on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 6:20 pm

wisden wrote:You would assume that Morgan comes back in for Bairstow, and Hales for Vince...

IMO my side for India odi's is

Roy
Hales
Root
Duckett
Stokes
Buttler (wk) (c)
Moeen
Rashid
Woakes
Willey
Plunkett

12th man Jake Ball

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by robbo277 on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 7:56 pm

wisden wrote:You would assume that Morgan comes back in for Bairstow, and Hales for Vince...

IMO my side for India odi's is

Roy
Hales
Duckett
Morgan/Billings
Stokes
Buttler (wk) (c)
Moeen
Rashid
Woakes
Willey
Plunkett

12th man Jake Ball

Would you not think of having Dawson in there, either as a third spinner or ahead of Ali, who had a poor series? Not sure what Dawson is like as a bat, but we have enough lower middle order players that even if he's a bunny we don't lose loads. And we have Root back who can bowl a bit of off-spin and take some of the heat off if he goes badly at the start. Just think it would be a good chance to have a prolonged look at him before making a decision on second spinner for 2017.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by KP_fan on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 8:27 pm

followed on CI this series......and given the strength of BD recently in home ODIs....some credits earned by Eng in winning this.

Some would say the implosion.....of BD in first ODI was a lucky break for Eng......probably.....partially...but sustained pressure and holding the nerve better are also factors causing implosion....

there were no one sided games......and well fought series.......reaffirming Eng position as the strongest ODI side now in my view.....primary reason for it being their so many bowling and Wk all-rounders in the middle and lower order, and dashing batters at the top.

That they did not have Morgan, Hales , Roy.....shows the depth.

Unfortunately I do not see ODI performances being used as a feeder to the test team by Eng....like SA, Aus and to a reasonable extent India and Pak are doing.

In Today's context the hit and Masala format is T20( that ODIs were 15 years back) ......and the 50 over span ODIs are a reasonable measure of innings building and big league temperament abilities for top order batsmen.

I think the Eng test match captain has a strong resistance to bringing players from ODI and some might say even holding a a grudge.
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 9:39 pm

Not sure I agree with that TBH, England's resurgence in ODIs has come about in no small part because they've largely separated their ODI squad from their Test one (making it much closer to their T20 team). By no longer having Cook, Bell, Ballance, etc. in the ODI squad they've been able to give decent runs to players like Hales, Roy, etc. who play more aggressive cricket, and it's transformed the ODI side. Similarly Broad and Anderson have been freed up to focus on Tests, and I think it's helped them (certainly Broad has had fewer niggles). Root, Stokes, Moeen, Woakes are in both sides. Others like Bairstow, Hales(?), Rashid, Ball are in the squads of boths forms.

Looking at Australia it's fairly similar: obviously they're missing a few bowlers on the SA tour, but it's really only Warner, Smith, Starc and Hazlewood who would be in both Tests and ODIs as assured starters. Beyond that people like Marsh, Wade, Lyon are in both squads. Then you have the specialists: Finch, Bailey, Maxwell, Head, Zampa, etc. as ODI specialists, Burns, Voges, Nevill, etc. in Tests (with the caveat that I haven't followed the bowler situation that closely).

SA is probably not too different: Rossouw, Miller, Duminy, Tahir only play ODIs, though they have a bit more crossover with their seam bowlers I guess.

England have had a look at guys like Hales, Morgan, Buttler in Tests, but they haven't been a roaring success. I think on the basis of what we've seen in this series England will be tempted to give Duckett a chance in the Tests, and Ball won't have done his prospects any harm either you feel. Beyond that, Rashid definitely looks a better bowler than when he started in the UAE, and will get a chance to show what he can do.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by KO-KING on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 12:09 am

Can they keep Buttler just for the toss.. 100%

And some games like today's that's not be taken lightly

Anyway going forward

Roy
Hales.... Bit of a flat track bully in my opinion
Root
Duckett
Morgan
Buttler
Stokes.... Don't really rate him...
Ali
Woakes... Future best all rounder in the world once Shakib and ashwin get bit older
Rashid
Plunkett/wood/ball etc

Might drop stokes to put 2 proper seamers in

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 8:50 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Not sure I agree with that TBH, England's resurgence in ODIs has come about in no small part because they've largely separated their ODI squad from their Test one (making it much closer to their T20 team). By no longer having Cook, Bell, Ballance, etc. in the ODI squad they've been able to give decent runs to players like Hales, Roy, etc. who play more aggressive cricket, and it's transformed the ODI side. Similarly Broad and Anderson have been freed up to focus on Tests, and I think it's helped them (certainly Broad has had fewer niggles). Root, Stokes, Moeen, Woakes are in both sides. Others like Bairstow, Hales(?), Rashid, Ball are in the squads of boths forms.

Looking at Australia it's fairly similar: obviously they're missing a few bowlers on the SA tour, but it's really only Warner, Smith, Starc and Hazlewood who would be in both Tests and ODIs as assured starters. Beyond that people like Marsh, Wade, Lyon are in both squads. Then you have the specialists: Finch, Bailey, Maxwell, Head, Zampa, etc. as ODI specialists, Burns, Voges, Nevill, etc. in Tests (with the caveat that I haven't followed the bowler situation that closely).

SA is probably not too different: Rossouw, Miller, Duminy, Tahir only play ODIs, though they have a bit more crossover with their seam bowlers I guess.

England have had a look at guys like Hales, Morgan, Buttler in Tests, but they haven't been a roaring success. I think on the basis of what we've seen in this series England will be tempted to give Duckett a chance in the Tests, and Ball won't have done his prospects any harm either you feel. Beyond that, Rashid definitely looks a better bowler than when he started in the UAE, and will get a chance to show what he can do.

I'd to this which successful ODI players haven't been given a significant test chance at some point?

Rashid yes has had to bide his time, but thats gone on since before Cook was even test captain and hes now all but guaranteed a run of tests over this winter as the lead spinner.
Roy ... hes only just emerged as a limited overs force and has a pretty weak record in 4 day cricket. Hes really not a test player.

Who has bypassed the ODI development route?
Possibly Hameed IF he gets a cap. A specialist test opener.

Then theres guys like Plunkett whos test chances were a long time ago, but hes still skirting with the edges of the ODI side. You could also say " what about Wiley" but then hes again not really kicked on in the way hoped and is struggling to establish himself in a format hes supposed to specialise in. Its not like England are short of test seamers who can bat a bit ...and as much as KPF might hate them Broad and Anderson arent going to get dropped (pending injury) any time soon.

England have taken endless stick over the years exactly for picking players for ODIS who they want in the test team regardless of whether they are suited to that format or not.

Really is classic KPF ballcocks.


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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 8:56 am

KO-KING wrote:Can they keep Buttler just for the toss.. 100%

And some games like today's that's not be taken lightly

Anyway going forward

Roy
Hales.... Bit of a flat track bully in my opinion
Root
Duckett
Morgan
Buttler
Stokes.... Don't really rate him...
Ali
Woakes... Future best all rounder in the world once Shakib and ashwin get bit older
Rashid
Plunkett/wood/ball etc

Might drop stokes to put 2 proper seamers in

By proper seamers do you mean guys who cant bowl and bat as well as Woakes Plunket and Willey?
The other option is Broad who still wants to make a come back, but thats likely to be blocked by the England management wanting to avoid him going back to the cycle of injuries ... especially with Anderson breaking down so regularly now.

The other point here is that with so many bowlers who can bat (Rashid, Ali, Ansari also) they will always take the option of 6 front line options, rather than turning to Roots part time spin as their own flexibility. Its not Stokes who gets dropped for a 4th seamer / 3rd spinner ... its a batsman. Right now that would be Duckett assuming the 4 seniors are back in place.

Theres strong competition for batting spots now, when you look at the 4 who played this last game as the second string its a pretty good pool to dip into.



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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 10:52 am

Duckett has moved himself ahead of Bairstow as the backup batter in the lineup, and with their propensity to rest Root will get plenty of gametime.

The top 4 will be Roy, Hales, Root & Morgan - but the skipper will have to perform with the bat to keep his spot.

Stokes surely did enough to convince all but blind doubters that he is a good selection in this team. Important runs in both wins and good economy combined with being our best fielder (one iffy drop admittedly).

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 11:20 am

Very much enjoying all the Twitter rage because Strauss has said Morgan will be back for the India series

Not like he's averaged 45 over the past year and is leading the ODI revolution now is it...

Oh no he doesn't sing the anthem so he must not play
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 11:32 am

The problem for specialist batsmen like Duckett, Billings, Bairstow, Vince, etc. is that they're really only fighting it out for the four top order spots, with England keen to go the six bowlers route (a sensible ploy in ODIs IMO, since you can then afford one bowler to have an off day or get picked on without resorting to loads of overs from part-timers), and Buttler not going to be dropped any time soon. That makes it tough, particularly considering how settled that top four is: Roy and Hales have established themselves as a very good opening pairing, Root is pretty much the first name on the team sheet, and Morgan is captain (and did after all play pretty well this summer, averaging over 40).

Of course, Root's back issues should mean they'll get some gametime as LT says, but establishing themselves as genuine first choice will be difficult. Still, good to have these options, and it will definitely keep the top four on their toes.

Like Olly I find the constant questioning of Morgan's place somewhat puzzling. He's been in good form this year in ODIs, and I think his captaincy is underrated. Also, when England began this ODI revolution he was very much leading it with the bat, didn't he smash some centuries in that series against NZ when England announced themselves as a new team?

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 9:29 am

MFC .. His forms been up and down since getting the captaincy, and frankly he was extremely lucky to keep his spot and get the job as the only viable candidate at the time. You cant argue with the results though, he has to be given some credit for being part of the turn around. He did have a bad run thorugh the winter and the first half of the summer though, and I think theres a residualk questioning of his place thats not gone away since then.
The questioning of his spot as a player more comes down to competition for spots at 3/4 ...as you noted theres a lot of players who might do even better than he has. Theres always a clamour form the internet for the next big thing to be given a go , as there is in the test arena ...right up till the point where they get a game and fail.
People were all over Vince for two years, now hes the spare man.
Its also worth noting that Morgans SR iosnt actually that good compared to other players during his captaincy ... hes gone form being the only proper batsman who could score quickly and isnt Kevin Pietersen to the most pedestrian of the first choices. Part of that of course is that his roles evolved in the team and he has plenty of other people who can shoulder the responsibility for upping the rate or clubbing in the death overs, and hes moved up form 5 to 4.
But what you dont see form him so much now as in his early career are the headline grabbing individual game winning performances that the likes of Root, Buttler , Hales and Roy put in. The only exception in the last couple of years being a ridiculously fast 50 against Pakistan, but most of his recent scores have come at less than 6 an over which  So that leads to a perception that hes really not doing that much, or that hes just not capable of the sorts of big fast centuries that Root makes ....as if every young batsman would be able to.

Theres nothing fundamentally wrong with always questioning if the team could be better and wanting to look for improvements, and there will always be a weak link thats getting sniped at...as well as people having their favourite (surrey) players who they avidly wish to believe are the answer or "deserve a go". Duckett now suddenly is the new sliced bread of the back of a couple of half centuries (lets ignore the duck) against the 7th ranked ODI team.  And so it goes.

There is also the question of him not going on the tour, and the long term questioning of his real commitment to England as country as opposed to an opportunity to play top level international cricket. Not singing the national anthem is a bit different to Kevin Pietersen getting an England tattoo. Hes far from the only non Brit to play for England, but there is a genuine case that his choice was a bit more cynical than most others.
Does that mean he shouldn't be picked? Well only if you are a real purist ( and ignore history ) or an actual English/Welsh player who lost out on a place to one of the Irish turncoats. But really its a smokescreen for outrage. People just like to be angry, and the likes of KPF and any Australian ever just like to find excuses to snipe at whoever is England captain.

So really theres two strands ...one the idea that hes not the best player available in that position, the other that he shouldnt be playing for England at all and certainly shouldnt have been given the job of Captain. Neither of which are really being borne out by whats happening on the pitch.


I think we can all agree its much better to be in a place where the pressure is coming from those who aren't first choice making the best of the opportunities that they get rather than those who have a place failing.



To me the selection choices in Test team are currently much tougher, and with much more scope to do radically different things. Its good they have a squad that gives them real flexibility, but at the same time that could lead to a lot of chopping and changing.
Theres a bigger chance for Duckett and/or Hameed to make an impact and get a first choice spot there if they can make scores.

Or there would be if they werent sat inside watching rain anyway.



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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 9:31 am

Some big news being reported this morning

India are open to using DRS in the upcoming test series with England

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-3837002/India-set-end-TV-umpire-boycott-ahead-five-match-series-against-England.html

Thankfully they've entered the 21st century
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 9:37 am

Presumably they've figured that the biggest risk to them losing is poor umpiring

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by KP_fan on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 12:51 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Presumably they've figured that the biggest risk to them losing is poor umpiring

it's a step in the right direction...whether a deal can be finalized that is acceptable to BCCI before the start of Eng series is doubtful
the issues that we know and we hear:


the overt issues.

1)  Use of ball tracking for LBWs...... for the same amount of ball  hitting the stump the batsman can be either out or n.o depending on the umpire's call is deemed inconsistent. And deemed unfair as the team loses its referral
so Indian position would be to make the decision independent of umpire's call

2) Hot spot is deemed, inconsistent.....snicko may get approved OR a clear guidelines on snicko take precedence over Hotspot in case the two disagree in a given situation.

The hidden issues:

3) The BCCI probably wants a royalty from the DRS company for introducing and using their technology in India including IPL and FC cricket.....which increases the DRS market share by 4 times

4) BCCI may want a commitment from ICC to not remain locked to single source supplier of this technology.....be open to brining alternative suppliers of this technology and I have a feeling BCCI has one or two suhc proposals of alternatives on their table.

The strategic issue

In my view and I am sure captain, coach and BCCI think tank may also think on these lines...that Eng is India's toughest test this home season.......and Eng is vastly experienced in usage of DRS.....so it might be best to introduce and gain experience against a lesser opponent like BD who will tour India later.

Resolving all these issues when in less than a month when BCCI's own future is laced with uncertainty because of Supreme Court's directives against them......is unlikely.
That DRS will come to be accepted by Indians at some point in the next 6 months is very likely.

That at best they may all agree to use DRS minus the ball tracking for now against Eng...or just the snickometer.
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by wisden on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 2:59 pm

Virat kohli is the one who wants DRS...he always has done, and now he is test captain it appears he is using that to try and swing the board into finally using DRS..

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 3:38 pm

Gooseberry, that's a very considered and well argued response, thanks.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/24598.html?class=2;template=results;type=allround;view=match

These are Morgan's ODI performances. As one can see, in the 28 innings prior to the end of England's disastrous WC campaign, he only passed 50 twice (one score of 60-odd, one hundred). This of course meant that it was fair enough to question England's decision to make him captain.

Then he had two brilliant series against NZ and Australia, with scores of 50, 88 (off 47 balls in an attempted run chase of 400), 71, 113 (off 82 balls in a successful chase of 350), 0, 38, 85, 62, 92 (at a run a ball in a successful chase of 300), 1* (retired hurt). He then has a decent series in the UAE (154 runs in four innings), a very poor one in SA (62 runs in five innings), an ordinary one against SL (85 runs in three innings), and a good one against Pakistan (179 runs in three innings, 3 not outs, so average of 60).

It's really only the series in SA where he didn't contribute anything, and I think the earlier form, particularly the first two series, surely allow him that bit of leeway?

It's true that there are fewer "headline-grabbing performances" than earlier on. There are though 2 MOM performances (the century against NZ and the 92 against Aus), while his 88 off 47 balls when chasing 400 was pretty spectacular, as was of course his very rapid 50 in the recent series against Pakistan. I think part of the reason he isn't headlining so much is the much stronger top 3 England now have, who mean he's less often needed.

Still, you're right that there's nothing wrong in consistently looking at ways the team may be improved. You're also, sadly, right about the whole Ireland thing, which I think is a bit of a shame (people questioning Morgan not touring Bangladesh seem to be far more forgiving of Hales's choice for instance). Another reason is that older players tend to find themselves under scrutiny more quickly if their form drops. While Morgan isn't really old (he's 30...) he is very much the elder statesman in the ODI side, particularly among the batsmen: Hales is 27, Roy 26, Root 25(!!), Stokes 25, Buttler 26, and of course Duckett and Billings as the next guys in line are younger also (just about 22 for Duckett, 25 for Billings).

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by VTR on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 4:17 pm

Anyone following Pakistan vs Windies - Lara's record under threat?!

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by JDizzle on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 8:03 pm

Duckett 59 off 63 and Hameed 16 off 56 in the warm up game today. I was confident when the squad was announced that HH would open in the first Test, but I am not so sure now...

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 9:47 pm

Yeah Ducketts really making the case for inclussion somewhere in the side. If nothing else hes clearly not intimidated by being in the spotlight.

In other news Englands spinners are rubbish.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 10:39 pm

Cook
Duckett
Root
Ballance
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Batty

Is what I anticipate the first test XI to be. Although I could just as easily see Hameed opening with Duckett at 4 and Ballance dropping out
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by JDizzle on Sun 16 Oct 2016, 12:01 pm

Adil Rashid left out of the 13 man warm up game today (along with Jake Ball), whilst Ansari is the first spinner used and takes 4 wickets... The plot thickens.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 16 Oct 2016, 2:23 pm

JDizzle wrote:Adil Rashid left out of the 13 man warm up game today (along with Jake Ball), whilst Ansari is the first spinner used and takes 4 wickets... The plot thickens.

After watching the ODI series pitches, they could actually just play all four spinners...

Can't believe they will leave out Rashid - especially as he was the leading wicket taker in the ODIs
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 16 Oct 2016, 2:48 pm

JDizzle wrote:Adil Rashid left out of the 13 man warm up game today (along with Jake Ball), whilst Ansari is the first spinner used and takes 4 wickets... The plot thickens.

One possibility is that after Rashid's recent ODI success, his immediate selection in the Test team is secure and so this is a shoot-out between Ansari, Batty and Moeen for the remaining one or two spinner places.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by James100 on Sun 16 Oct 2016, 3:22 pm

I'd guess Guildford's right - they're giving the other guys a chance to impress and to get used to the conditions (Rashid already having played a few matches).

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by JDizzle on Sun 16 Oct 2016, 3:48 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
JDizzle wrote:Adil Rashid left out of the 13 man warm up game today (along with Jake Ball), whilst Ansari is the first spinner used and takes 4 wickets... The plot thickens.

One possibility is that after Rashid's recent ODI success, his immediate selection in the Test team is secure and so this is a shoot-out between Ansari, Batty and Moeen for the remaining one or two spinner places.

It is certainly very possible. I didn't see the Third ODI, but I didn't think Rashid bowled that well in the first two - despite taking wickets. So I would be surprised to see him left out when there is the chance to get more overs under his belt in these conditions. Admittedly I would be more surprised to see him left out of T1, so we will see!

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