England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

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England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 10:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

A bit early, but with squads due to be announced next week thought I'd start a thread to collate all winter tours news...

Firstly it appears the Bangladesh tour will go ahead despite security concerns. I for one am glad of this, gives England a chance to acclimatise to Asian conditions against an improving Bangladesh outfit (especially as England have no planned tour matches in India)

Secondly - it appears Haseeb Hameed will be getting the nod for Bangladesh according to Nick Hoult - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2016/08/29/england-plan-to-call-up-teenage-opener-haseeb-hameed-for-banglad/

Peoples initial thoughts on that?
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:11 am

Ben Stokes didn't shake someone's hand and it's made people on Twitter go mental - fantastic scenes

From tweets from reporters out there - seems like we will have Hameed opening with Duckett at 4
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 10:18 am

You could colour me amazed if Rashid doesnt play. I dont see anything in him not bowling in this game, more they just wanted to give the fringe candidates who havent had much bowling a go.

Ansari has thrown a question open but really he isnt a front line spinner. A few wickets against a scratch side doesnt change that. If he plays its the same sort of role as Ali is likely to be given ...supporting proper bowlers and batting in the top 6.


Habib making 50 has most likley nailed him on although he remains a huge risk really. Duckett has to play, batsman of the tour so far.

Stokes...well someone always has to be the center of drama. The indians will be loving this and no doubt their media will be full of vitriol and he will be cast as the pantomime villan now everyone forgotten that stuart broad once stepped on a cricket ball.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by James100 on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 11:58 am

The Stokes thing seems absurd considering he didn't shake someone's hand at lunch on day 1. Not at the end of match handshakes. It looks like he just didn't notice the guy going to shake his hand ans he was looking elsewhere.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by msp83 on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 2:24 pm

Stokes does ask for a lot of trouble with his stupid behavior, and everything he does or doesn't thus become news. He was just absolutely pathetic after that 2nd ODI, and then made it worse through spouting nonsense over Twitter. Now a non-issue is being made a big thing, because there is a bit of market for this.
I like young Ben, just hope he doesn't overdo this stuff and get into unnecessary trouble. He can pipe down a bit for sure.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by msp83 on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 2:30 pm

On BCCI and DRS, think KPF summed things up very well. Would be surprised if DRS is in place for the England series. Umpiring quality has gone down in recent years, and there were a lot of poor calls in the recent NEw Zealand series. Admitedly both teams found themselves at the rough end multiple times. But they never even out, and the more correct decisions there can be, the better it is.
And if Virat can get the BCCI and ICC to come round to a reasonable agreement on this, think that wil be great. The old guard, including MS, were not really in favor of DRS, but Virat has always thought a bit differently on DRS. He can be silly and stupid with selection calss at times, but now that Anil Kumble is there, that aspect is being worked upon and tempered. So go skipper, go!

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by msp83 on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 2:32 pm

Conventional England would still be playing Ballance and leaving Rashid out. Won't be surprised if Rashid and Duckett would miss out on selection for the first test though they both deserve to be in there.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 3:41 pm

Well Duckett has done pretty much everything that you could ask of him on Tour, two fifties in the ODI series, and now fifties (retired) in both warm-ups. Given his strength against spin, I think it would be madness to leave him out. He looks to have the temperament, and a decent range of shots. Not bowling Rashid in this game is interesting: he did pretty well in the previous game, and well in the ODIs, so wonder if England were seeing the second game as a shoot-out for the other spinner(s?) spots.

Also of interest will be the balance England go with. Anderson's out isn't he? So assuming Broad, Woakes, Stokes are locked in, they'll pick at least two spinners, but could potentially pick an extra seamer, a third spinner, or an extra batsman (Ballance presumably).

So a line-up that looks something like
Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckettt
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad

which is stupidly long, or replace Ballance with Batty, Ball or Finn. Looking at it like that, I'm wondering if my prefered choice would actually be Batty, who should add some control, allowing Rashid and Ali to be used as more attacking options and hopefully the seamers not to be overbowled. A tail of Woakes, Rashid, Broad and Batty is hardly weak, thgouh Stokes at 5 does feel one spot too high.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by James100 on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 4:02 pm

The Cricinfo report (usually pretty accurate) reckons the only question left to be answered is the order Stokes, Moeen and Bairstow will bat. http://www.espncricinfo.com/bangladesh-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1062083.html

They reckon:

Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckett
Stokes/Moeen/Bairstow
Stokes/Moeen/Bairstow
Stokes/Moeen/Bairstow
Rashid
Woakes
Batty
Broad

(remember five years ago when everyone was talking about whether Broad would make a career as a number seven or just a good number eight)

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by msp83 on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 5:42 pm

England going in with 3 spinners? Seriously?
Well, I actually like the look of that lineup. Ballance Is anyways suspect as a batsman. The all-rounder coming in has as much chance of putting up a decent score. Stokes at 5 would be a position too high, but Bairstow, in his current form can be quite alright in there. Bairstow, Stokes and Ali it should be in my view.
Then Woakes, Rashid, Batty and Broad.
A man with a test best of 169 coming in at 11! Incredible, Ridiculous. England have some serious riches when it comes to all-rounders! Broad of course isn't the same batsman/batting potential that he ones was, but he's a pretty effective slogger on his day......

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by James100 on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 5:50 pm

msp - Farbrace said earlier in the week that England were looking at playing 3 spinners in the first Test and 2 in the second (I guess Finn coming in for Batty)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/bangladesh-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1061573.html

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by alfie on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 12:18 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Well Duckett has done pretty much everything that you could ask of him on Tour, two fifties in the ODI series, and now fifties (retired) in both warm-ups. Given his strength against spin, I think it would be madness to leave him out. He looks to have the temperament, and a decent range of shots. Not bowling Rashid in this game is interesting: he did pretty well in the previous game, and well in the ODIs, so wonder if England were seeing the second game as a shoot-out for the other spinner(s?) spots.

Also of interest will be the balance England go with. Anderson's out isn't he? So assuming Broad, Woakes, Stokes are locked in, they'll pick at least two spinners, but could potentially pick an extra seamer, a third spinner, or an extra batsman (Ballance presumably).

So a line-up that looks something like
Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckettt
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad

which is stupidly long, or replace Ballance with Batty, Ball or Finn. Looking at it like that, I'm wondering if my prefered choice would actually be Batty, who should add some control, allowing Rashid and Ali to be used as more attacking options and hopefully the seamers not to be overbowled. A tail of Woakes, Rashid, Broad and Batty is hardly weak, thgouh Stokes at 5 does feel one spot too high.

That is actually my preferred lineup ...I agree Stokes is too high at five , so would prefer Moeen to be elevated to that spot (not likely to be monstered by new ball bowling in these conditions though I wouldn't fancy him batting so high in Australia , for example. Horses for courses )
I do have still some reservations about Hameed . Haven't seen him , but clearly by reports he has something - I just have concerns over his rather glacial scoring rate , which might put a bit of added pressure on the other batsmen. Looks as if he is in though so am happy to see how he goes...better starting here than in India.
Two debutants in the top four ? Can't complain England are being too conservative , anyway...

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 6:28 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Well Duckett has done pretty much everything that you could ask of him on Tour, two fifties in the ODI series, and now fifties (retired) in both warm-ups. Given his strength against spin, I think it would be madness to leave him out. He looks to have the temperament, and a decent range of shots. Not bowling Rashid in this game is interesting: he did pretty well in the previous game, and well in the ODIs, so wonder if England were seeing the second game as a shoot-out for the other spinner(s?) spots.

Also of interest will be the balance England go with. Anderson's out isn't he? So assuming Broad, Woakes, Stokes are locked in, they'll pick at least two spinners, but could potentially pick an extra seamer, a third spinner, or an extra batsman (Ballance presumably).

So a line-up that looks something like
Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckettt
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad

which is stupidly long, or replace Ballance with Batty, Ball or Finn. Looking at it like that, I'm wondering if my prefered choice would actually be Batty, who should add some control, allowing Rashid and Ali to be used as more attacking options and hopefully the seamers not to be overbowled. A tail of Woakes, Rashid, Broad and Batty is hardly weak, thgouh Stokes at 5 does feel one spot too high.

Think you gotta play six bowlers especially when England's spinners aren't reliable and actually adding another bowler shouldn't really effect the batting too much
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 8:32 am

The talk for some time is that Ali is going up the order to 4 or 5 (so Stokes would be at 6) and treated as a part time spinner. Its been increasingly obvious for some time that hes not really a genuine front line bowler, not one who can be used to squeeze the opposition, but can chip in with some variation and partnership breaking if required. When you have Bairstow at 7 (personally Id bump him above Stokes but whatever .. 5 to 7 are pretty interchangeable between those players)
Thats why we are likely see 3 spinners. Batty gives control and experience, Rashid the strike bowler, and Ali available when they don't work to leak more runs. Its more a "least worst" than a brilliant masterplan but England simply dont have a genuine quality spinner to pick from.
As it is Ansari has chucked a cat amongst the pigeons with some wickets but again he really isnt a genuine 30 over type bowler, more a batsman who could offer a left arm option.

And yes 6 bowlers, absolutely. When you have so many who can bat as well or in some cases better than your non bowling batsmen why on earth wouldnt you?
If there were genuine world class bowlers being left out for the all rounders then you of course would start questioning their places. and the balance. But there isnt, especially with the injury list. When Anderson is fit things get a bit more interesting and a the three spinners + 2 all rounder seamers become problematic if you want to fit him in (drop Broad? unlikely) but right now it is what it is.
What you dont want to end up with is the New Zealand situation where they had just two proper seam bowlers being asked to shoulder a huge load in a first innings, supported by 2 mediocre spinners and a medium pace all rounder. That shambles looked like England in the 90s. But again, ou can only select from players who exist and make the best of it.

Whether the picture looks the same come the India game is anyones guess but the team looks to be shaping up, partly based on tour performances so far and partly on comments in the media and previous selections to be

Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckett (Cant wait to see him facing short pitched stuff from the Australians, the name joke will never wear thin)
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Batty

Theres obvious weaknesses with two debutantes and two all rounders in the top 6 but balanced by a ton of depth to the batting (especially Bairstow at 7 ...again Id have him at 5 or 6 but hey). Also you have the class of Cook and Root in there, flip side being theres a weight of pressure and expectation on them. But Cooks record overseas and on flat pitches is excellent, hes one who should thrive in the India series at least.
If Bangladesh go for 4 day spinner friendly wickets we will probably see some mayhem, but England have the batsmen down the order who could blast quick guts and glory scores to put them in the game.
If its flat wickets England have the depth in their bowling resources to cope with long hot days of toil. They can rotate and minimise the load on the seamers so each over can be delivered at full throttle. They have a mix of spinning options and can offer different challenges to set batsmen, either tempt them to smack Ali and Rashid to long on or try and make them laugh to death by putting Batty and Root on. The flip side being they dont have a genuinely fast bowler or one with the absolute craft of a fit Anderson, nor do they have a spinner who isn't an embarrassment. Theres no Swann/Panessar this time (caveats that they got heavily slated before that series).

It should be good enough for Bangladesh. India though ... if they bring the form , application and ruthless intent they did against New Zealand then England are going to suffer. The only weaknesses I see in the India side are an over reliance on Ashwins wickets and real issues if one of their 4 bowlers has an injury/bad day and that they still seem to have an element of not liking it when things dont go their when and sulking rather than stepping up a gear.
I really cant see that England have enough genuine quality in the bowling to beat India over a series though. Doubly so if Indias luck with the coin continues.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 9:49 am

Gooseberry wrote:
As it is Ansari has chucked a cat amongst the pigeons with some wickets but again he really isnt a genuine 30 over type bowler, more a batsman who could offer a left arm option.

I think Ansari (if/when picked for a test side) should be regarded as a front line spinner - otherwise there is not a lot of point in selecting him. His batting for Surrey is steady (sometimes at a "glacial" pace) - but I would have thought that at test level he is likely to perhaps once place ahead of Broad (conceivably also Rashid if playing).

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 12:52 am

Hmm not sure about Ali at 5 TBH. I actually think that at international level Stokes is the better batsman. I would agree Bairstow could probably do it, but he seems really comfortable in the 6-7 role which also allows him I think to focus more on his keeping. Anyway not massively fussed, all three are aggressive batsmen, so you're not worried too much about them getting stuck with the tail (which all bat pretty well anyway).

As Goose says, picking the three spinners feels more like a "least worst" option than a brilliant one, but I also think it works quite well as a balance. Though where Anderson fits in when he comes back is anyone's guess. England aren't going to leave Broad out, rightfully so... Means Rashid, Batty and Moeen are fighting it out for two places in India in all likelihood.

I'd really like Rashid to go well here, I feel he's much improved over the last year from what I've seen in ODIs, and hopefully he can transfer some of that to the Test arena.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:06 am

Corporalhumblebucket wrote: there is not a lot of point in selecting him

Well you said it

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:17 am

Cook confirms that they will go with three seamers and three spinners, not confirming that actual players

He also confirms that Anderson is likely to miss the first test in India at least

Fearing we're seeing the end of Jimmy Sad
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:23 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Hmm not sure about Ali at 5 TBH. I actually think that at international level Stokes is the better batsman. I would agree Bairstow could probably do it, but he seems really comfortable in the 6-7 role which also allows him I think to focus more on his keeping. Anyway not massively fussed, all three are aggressive batsmen, so you're not worried too much about them getting stuck with the tail (which all bat pretty well anyway).

As Goose says, picking the three spinners feels more like a "least worst" option than a brilliant one, but I also think it works quite well as a balance. Though where Anderson fits in when he comes back is anyone's guess. England aren't going to leave Broad out, rightfully so... Means Rashid, Batty and Moeen are fighting it out for two places in India in all likelihood.

I'd really like Rashid to go well here, I feel he's much improved over the last year from what I've seen in ODIs, and hopefully he can transfer some of that to the Test arena.

MfC - if Batty can keep it tight at one end (and he should be better suited to doing that than Moeen), that may well help Rashid at the other.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 1:28 pm

BBC TMS reporting it's likely Duckett opens with Ballance in the middle order and Hameed missing out
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 5:50 am

ENGLAND IN NOT PLAYING SPIN WELL SHOCKER
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 8:32 am

England in " Only Root can bat" shocker


Its pretty limp isnt it. Apparently the lowest score they have ever been 3 down for in Asia. So either this is spinning with devil turn form ball 1, or they are just rubbish.
Cook gets half a pass for not having had any time to bed in and having these tests as his warm up for India.

Lets hope Ali can continue the stunning form with the bat he showed over summer or this will get embarrassing very quickly, I don't see anything in Englands bowlers to suggest they will rip through the Bangladesh who have depth (if not quality) in their batting. The 6 bowler attack is only really of value for the assumed situation in the India games where the pitches will be flat and the India will look to grind them out of the game.

If England dont even reach 200 here I will quit trying to pretend they are bobbins.

Edit ...as I post that Bairstow is scoring freely and looking like he could hit that rapid 50 to transform the innings form disaster to just bad. If the remaining all rounders can chip in as well then a just slightly embarrassing total is possible.

It still doesnt cover up the known problem with England stop 5 ..ie they dont have one.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by VTR on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 8:44 am

I am not writing England off just yet - this sounds like the rankest of rankest turners, it can as easily make England's pretty average spinners into something lethal. Didn't Michael Clarke once take 6/9 or something stupid on a rank turner? I am sure there are many other examples of average spinners turning into a deadly proposition on such tracks

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 8:45 am

128/5. That doesn't sound great and it's not looking that way either. However, Knight has suggested that 250 would be a reasonable score on this wicket and we should have enough batters in the second half of the scorecard to get beyond that.

Moeen playing sensibly and has moved to 29. It seems his batting is going to be important to him maintaining his place this winter.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:03 am

guildfordbat wrote:

Moeen playing sensibly and has moved to 29. It seems his batting is going to be important to him maintaining his place this winter.

Well yes and no , whos going to take his place : Hameed? Thats pretty desperate, and he always has Balance to be worse than him and lose his first.
(Oh wait theres always Ansari ..I mean he could bat at 5 right???)
Yes he is in the side as a batsman first and bowler second now though.

As for playing sensibly he just hit a 11 of 12 runs in an over, but it does seem these two have steadied things well without getting too bogged down. Theyve both given chances though.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:07 am

Is it that much of a turner first up?
Im not watching on Sky just following cricinfo and TMS bits ... theres no suggestion that the pitch is ridiculous yet.
250 is still a long way off and frankly I have less faith in Englands spinners than Knight does, and perhaps give the Bangladeshi batsmen more credit in their ability to handle them and the conditions especially with them having a number 8 with a test average over 40.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:11 am

Another note .. I think Ali has set a new record by having 5 successful reviews against his wicket so far in this innings ( 3 by him, 2 by Bangladesh .... you have to question how the umpire can get it wrong so many times, Bangladesh also successfully reviewed Ballances wicket which means they've made at least 4 serious mistakes already)
This may also be a record for the most reviews in the number of overs bowled ( 6 in 47.4) , I cant think of another game where theres been so many.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:14 am

Got up early to watch it Goose and it was turning square from ball one so definitely think 250 would be a decent first innings total (very glad England aren't batting last on this!)
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:42 am

Fair enough Olly. And yes its nice they won the toss, just even more disappointing to see the top 5 of the top 6 fail to do anything with the best of the conditions...and if it hadnt been for DRS then they'd be in a much worse position.

250 wont feel comfortable on any surface, even if they bowl Bangladesh out for less.

It is one of those games I guess where an individual innings really could flip the game. Englands strength is in depth and the increased chance of someone having the stars align for them that gives.

Anyway these two have moved the score on a bit but look to have shut up shop ahead of tea. Vital stand and I think Ali has shown promise that he can be a proper batsman.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 10:06 am

Gooseberry wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:

Moeen playing sensibly and has moved to 29. It seems his batting is going to be important to him maintaining his place this winter.

Well yes and no , whos going to take his place : Hameed? Thats pretty desperate, and he always has Balance to be worse than him and lose his first.
(Oh wait theres always Ansari ..I mean he could bat at 5 right???)
Yes he is in the side as a batsman first and bowler second now though.

As for playing sensibly he just hit a 11 of 12 runs in an over, but it does seem these two have steadied things well without getting too bogged down. Theyve both given chances though.

Moeen's (batting) place is probably inadvertently helped by Hameed being on the sidelines. If Hameed is to come into the side and get a Test this tour, it's hard to envisage it being anything other than as an opener. Meanwhile, Buttler shouldn't be forgotten - he's on the sidelines but I keep hearing suggestions that Bayliss is keen to find a way of getting him in the eleven.

That said, Moeen is going nowhere on the basis of his showing so far. Decent mix of grit and aggression. Resuming after tea on 173/5, we should now be looking for a minimum of 300. That should place us in a good position.

Btw, I appreciate your support for Ansari's batting. However, as England's leading wicket taker (jointly with Batty) on this tour, you needn't look to get him in earlier than number 7. Wink

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by VTR on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 10:13 am

Moeen - 2 hundreds and 2 fifties over the summer, outperformed nearly everyone else with the bat. Deserving of a go higher up the order in my view, and has done well again today

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 10:23 am

He averaged over 62 in both summer series, and now has passed that score in this game.

Hes been messed around a lot in his career but it does look like the correct place for him is batting 5/6 and being a second spin option. The attempt to use him as an opener failed, as did the attempt to use him as a number one spinner. Hopefully he will continue to perform as a batting all rounder.

Getting Buttler in the side ...only if hes going to be the better gloveman. Which is always going to be a controversial thing.
he currently only has a contract for limited overs cricket, so I dont see it as being that imminent a thing more just a general aspiration or "would be nice if we could do that without damaging the team elsewhere", and certainly not on this tour where they are looking for 6 bowling options.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by alfie on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 10:26 am

Used to think I was the only one on here who thinks Moeen is underrated but I see he is getting proper appreciation ...and well deserved as he is playing a very important innings here. Certainly plenty there for the spinners and if he and Bairstow (who has also played very well , just the one chance to slip) can continue this revival a while longer England may be the happier side by close of play...

The new boy for Bangladesh has had a dream start , has he not ? Didn't see the first session but apparently Root was the only one handling Mehedi with any confidence. Perhaps one might worry that England have too many left handers in the top order ?

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by alfie on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 10:29 am

Oh rats ...did I just jinx Moeen ?

Good bit of bowling. clap anyway, good innings and 194/6 still a fair recovery.

Woakes to carry on the good work ?

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 10:35 am

guildfordbat wrote:

Btw, I appreciate your support for Ansari's batting. However, as England's leading wicket taker (jointly with Batty) on this tour, you needn't look to get him in earlier than number 7. Wink

So the two leading wicket takers ( if you ignore all the ones Rashid took in the limited over games) are the ones who bowled the most overs. I may be reading too much into it but I suspect this is also as much a reflection on how medicore Ali was and Rashid not playing as it is on Ansari's unplayability for test class batsmen.


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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 11:14 am

Good recovery from england - Bairstow now passing 50 supported by Sir Christopher himself

250+ should be achieved now

I am a Gary Balance fan - but I can't see the justification for keeping him in the side. He's averaged 24 since his return to the side
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 11:15 am

Gooseberry wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:

Btw, I appreciate your support for Ansari's batting. However, as England's leading wicket taker (jointly with Batty) on this tour, you needn't look to get him in earlier than number 7. Wink

So the two leading wicket takers ( if you ignore all the ones Rashid took in the limited over games) are the ones who bowled the most overs. I may be reading too much into it but I suspect this is also as much a reflection on how medicore Ali was and Rashid not playing as it is on Ansari's unplayability for test class batsmen.


Goose - I wasn't trying to give you any reasons. Just confirming what the stats are. For the avoidance of doubt, Surrey two spinners on this tour have between them eight times as many wickets as Moeen and Rashid combined. Very Happy

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by JDizzle on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 11:28 am

So I just turn the game on and Bairstow plays a 'less than ideal' shot. Deceived by the lack of spin, but trying to work a too straight ball is the old JB! Still, I guess we will see how important that innings is by this time tomorrow, when Bangladesh have has a decent bat.


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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 11:29 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Good recovery from england - Bairstow now passing 50 supported by Sir Christopher himself

250+ should be achieved now

I am a Gary Balance fan - but I can't see the justification for keeping him in the side. He's averaged 24 since his return to the side

Referring to Ballance - as Goose and I were saying about Moeen, not that many middle order alternatives on this tour. Particularly with Ducket opening - if he fails up top, I see him being dropped rather than slipping down the order.

Bairstow just gone - good slider to give young Mehedi a fivefer.

238/7 now. 250+ still on but the 300 I was looking for currently seems a little way off.


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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by alfie on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 11:39 am

Ballance may want to get a few in the second innings or they may feel that even imperfect alternatives (Duckett sliding down the order , Buttler - or a fourth spinner) are preferable...

The wicket of Bairstow tilts it back a bit towards the home team...England would like a bit of an innings from Rashid now. But with Bangladesh batting last this may yet be a decent score.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by VTR on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 11:40 am

Everyone left in the team can bat - 300 is still achievable if a pair can eke out 30 or so together

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 11:49 am

Useful knock being played by Woakes as he goes into the 30s and steers us towards 250+. I said he could bat about 3 or 4 years ago when almost everyone else was getting excited about his bowling and I was doubtful about that! Smile

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by alfie on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 11:59 am

Certainly something to be said for a deep batting lineup...

Over 250 now and 300 not impossible from here. Remains to be seen if the England spinners are up to it as I can't see a lot there for the seamers.

Nice to see 90 plus overs in a day !

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 12:36 pm

Well yep fine turn around indeed. Now into the realms of par scores. Englands all rounders really are the backbone of the side ( classing Bairstow as a keeper batsman all rounder)
Good to see Bairstow, Ali and Woakes able to grind out runs in difficult conditions as well as blasting rear guard turnarounds.

Another note, questions about Englands requirement for 6 bowlers/ 3 spinners should be balanced against Bangladesh having used their 8th by the 79th over of the first innings, being reduced to trying absolute pie chuckers to tempt a mistake.
Its only been the quality spinners that have really troubled England. Theres some comfort in that as India are only likely to play one real danger man in Ashwin. The "quicks" were an absolute joke though. Bangladesh my as well just pick one and get some more batting in.

Feeling far more positive than when i saw the score, but this hasnt really changed much. Some of the questions have been answered about Alis continued form and ability in the top 5, but overall Englands top order looks fragile at best. Its hardly news that England bat deep to help cover for that.
The potential answers to that only carry bigger questions and more obvious defects...Hameed had to be playing these tests if he were to be anything other than a last roll of the dice for India.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 12:37 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:

Btw, I appreciate your support for Ansari's batting. However, as England's leading wicket taker (jointly with Batty) on this tour, you needn't look to get him in earlier than number 7. Wink

So the two leading wicket takers ( if you ignore all the ones Rashid took in the limited over games) are the ones who bowled the most overs. I may be reading too much into it but I suspect this is also as much a reflection on how medicore Ali was and Rashid not playing as it is on Ansari's unplayability for test class batsmen.


Goose - I wasn't trying to give you any reasons. Just confirming what the stats are. For the avoidance of doubt, Surrey two spinners on this tour have between them eight times as many wickets as Moeen and Rashid combined. Very Happy

OK and that in games where Swann and Panessar didnt get any Laugh

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by KP_fan on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 1:39 pm

From CI accounts the ball is turning from the start....that Eng won the toss already put them ahead....

that they were 20-3 odd and 100-4 odd and recovered to 258-7...is a good recovery.....Ali, Bairstow and Woakes did well....like a few out of 7 (bowler +WK) of Eng normally do......
you'd count on them to get 300 ish tomm.

If BD have to win than a 300-350 total won't be enough....someone or a couple of guys will have to bat big and get them to 450 .

at this time Eng is 60-40 ahead
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by msp83 on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 2:46 pm

Followed the game mostly on cricinfo. Yet again, England's batting depth coming to their rescue. And I won't be surprised if they manage to go pass 300 from here on. Batty can bat, Broad can slog. Rashid and Woakes are proper all-rounders and are batting at 8 and 9 because England are pretty rich in the department of all-rounders. Woakes can so easily be a number 7 and Rashid a number 8....... Very critical toss to win for England.......
Good contributions from Ali and Bairstow though they both would be disappointed that they couldn't carry on. Critical contribution already from Woakes. Joe Root, who looked pretty much at ease before he got out had got a start and Bangladesh would be happy to cut him short for 40.
Ballance, who can consider himself very lucky to be playing this game, wasted yet another opportunity. But I did say I wouldn't be surprised if he gets picked ahead of either Duckett or Hameed. A lot has changed for England, but old habits still die hard.......

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by msp83 on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 2:59 pm

What a debut so far for young Mehedi Hasan Miraz. The lad is not yet 19, led his country at the U-19 WC early this year and was the player of the tournament. And 6 months down the line, he takes a 5for on test debut. Shakib also bowling well. The performance of Mehedi meant he bowled only 19 overs in the day, not a regular experience for Bangladesh's talisman.......
Wish Bangladesh played Nassir in place of Taijul Islam or one of the quicks. Sabir could have bowled a few overs of military medium. Nassir or Mosaddek Hossain who has got a terrific FC record in Bangladesh domestic cricket, could have added more substance to the side.

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Oct 2016, 7:01 am

Moeen heart
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by KP_fan on Fri 21 Oct 2016, 9:17 am

It's been Maligned Ali vs. Bangladesh so far Shocked
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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

Post by alfie on Fri 21 Oct 2016, 9:30 am

Only following on text today. Thought after Moeen's early success we might see a bit of a collapse but it seems these two have settled in nicely and England are going to have to work hard for wickets. Don't seem to have been much in the way of near things or false strokes lately.
So is it relatively easy slow turn , are the bowlers not quite on or is it just good batting ?

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Re: England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

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