Aviva Premiership - Round 1

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Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 11:05 am

First topic message reminder :

Fri 2nd Sep 16

19:45 Gloucester Rugby v  Leicester Tigers  BT Sport

The premiership season starts down at Castle Grim. Gloucester have promised more than they have delivered over the last few seasons, with the pack often failing to perform. This season DoR Humphreys has looked to the SH to address this, bringing in an entire front row from Super Rugby. Gloucester have been slow starters in recent seasons as newcomers take time to assimilate. They will need old hands like Greig Laidlaw on top form to ensure they can start the season with some good results.
Leicester will arrive expecting to play a high tempo offloading game and looking to run the legs off teams. This game plan was introduced last season by Aaron Mauger and was a hit with fans. The team will hope that increased familiarity will reduce the error count that bedevilled the club in the key knockout games last season. A lot of power has been lost in the back row with 3 number 8s leaving the club, but the front 5 looked very strong in pre-season.


20:00 Newcastle Falcons  v   Sale Sharks

It is always hard to ascertain how teams will go at the start of a new season. That is especially true for visitors Sale. They have tended to alternate between over-achieving and under-achieving seasons. Steve Diamond looks to have been pretty canny in his recruitment, but so much will depend on how McGinty goes and if Mike Phillips still has the legs for top flight rugby. The effect of increased revenue following the recent takeover will be unlikely to be seen this season.
Falcons have not finished above 11th in the AP since finishing 9th in 2009/10, and their recruitment has been largely of the "value for money" sort. There has been a massive clear out of players this summer, though despite the international status of many of them most will not be missed. Looking at the players available, and how the team have performed in the past it is hard to see beyond another season in the relegation zone.
I suspect Sale to be too strong for a plucky Falcon's team.




Sat 3rd Sep 16

14:00 Saracens   v   Worcester Warriors   BT Sport

The Twickenham double header starts with the champions (of England and Europe) hosting a Warriors side that again will have minimal EQP representation. Worcester will be physical and look to hit teams on the counter-attack, Saracens will do the same only better. Could be an exciting match but an easy win for Sarries you would expect.


15:30 Northampton Saints   v   Bath Rugby

Both these sides had quite small squads last season, which at times did affect them. Just a small number of changes to the Saints squad this season with a lot of faith (and cash) being thrown the way of Louis Picamoles. He will have to hit the ground running if Saints are to fight their way back into the top 4.
Bath have seen a lot of players leave and look desperately short of midfield backs. With the arrival of players like Charteris and Faletau, the pack shoudl be stronger than last season but it will take time for new coach Blackadder to both stamp his mark and get the players he needs in. They will be buoyed by 3 wins out of 3 in pre-season (all away from home) including last week over Leinster.
Saints to grind out the win.


16:30 Harlequins   v   Bristol Rugby  BT Sport

A new era for Quins in the coaching department, but minimal changes in the playing roster. With Evans yet another season older, they will want Jackson to find form quickly. He showed flashes of excellence last season for Wasps, more of that and Quins could be pushing for a Top 6 placing. Any better than that will require a herculean effort from their England men, and for some of the younger players to really step forward and deliver on youthful promise.
Who knows what to expect from Bristol. they have recruited heavily and will look to be taking early scalps to settle their own nerves. They may surprise Quins.



Sun 4th Sep 16

15:00 Wasps  v   Exeter Chiefs  BT Sport

These teams met at the knock out stages in both major competitions last season, with each team securing a win. Exeter have allowed largely fringe players to leave, and brought in a small number of probable starters. they will be stronger than last season. Wasps however have splashed big money, and are now the leagues money bags. Recruitment seems to have been centred on the back line however, where they could easily field two very strong line-ups. They could struggle up front though - with grizzled old heads like George Smith, Bradley Davies and the italian pairing of Cittadini and Festuccia likely to be missed. Add in the injury issues for Haskell and opposition will be looking to deny their backs any food ball by taking them on up front.
Exeter will probably be too organised for a Wasps team that may well go on to win the title.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Cumbrian on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 10:05 pm

Dear me guys, we are all inductees of the loser club here! Very Happy

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 10:06 pm

All I can say is "Holy Carp"

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by stub on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 10:08 pm

Too true Cumbrian/Heaf.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Welly on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 10:21 pm

I did say Falcons will be dangerous this season.

slae with Mcginty will take a bit to click but i don't think they will go down (Falcons)

Also we need Hammersley now. (McGuigan is a keeper).


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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by HongKongCherry on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 10:25 pm

furious furious furious Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

I should be use to this nonsense by now...

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 11:01 pm

Get in you beauty!!!

Our pack were great tonight - really aggressive and physical against a much bigger pack from what I could see.

Socino looked very good, and Delayney was very good indeed. Will Witty was a monster out there tonight. Hes packed the weight on and was using it.

Still kicked way too much, and in the first half were predictable putting the ball through the hands. But we'll work on that.

And Yes they missed the kick, in my opinion there was nothing wrong with the try we had disallowed so it evens out. Though you should have heard the crowd when the penalty was awarded....it was like... "here we go again snatching defeat from victory"

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by yappysnap on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 7:07 am

What a good game for the neutral that was.

Thought Barnes had his usual odd but pretty effective match managing both sides. Seemed to want to be involved a lot less and let the game flow, which certainly worked.

Tigers looked very good at times, but seemed to switch off too and Manu created all sorts of problems in their own defence. And then there's the kit... Just wtf? I can't believe people have paid for that?!!

Glos, Glos, Glos. I'd like to feel sorry for them but after being the party poopers at the Big Game last season it was a little satisfying to see that happen ( sorry HKC!)

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 9:22 am

Yappysnap I've seen a lot of the traditional style home kit being worn round Leicestershire but I've yet to see anyone in the hi-viz.

Manu did look very rusty. Never really seemed to be playing at more than 50%. Nice little half break and offload came out towards the end but I'm guessing it'll take a few games for him to find any sort of form. Betham also looked under prepared, hopefully Smith will start vs Wasps as he was great in his cameo off the bench (poor Matt Scott).

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by yappysnap on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 9:55 am

Yea tbh I don't think anyone was expecting too much of Manu this game (except the OTT BT pundits, Ugo is a legend at Quins but i cringe listening to him now). He just needs to relax a bit and the let the game come to him, looked like he was trying to force a big intervention every time in defence and got caught out, very reminiscent of the third NZ game a few years back.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 10:39 am

Agreed. He was really trying to pressure Twelvetrees and force an error. He just tried it a little too often and he was chasing the big hits far too often. He got stepped more in that game than I've ever seen. No sure he'll get away with those errors against Wasps next week, especially alongside Betham who isn't a defensive monster. Time for the underrated Smith to fill the void and offer us defensive strength.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 2:16 pm

After yesterday where the hookers were striking for the ball, I see we are back to SH feeling today.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 3:05 pm

Pigging awful 40 minutes.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 3:27 pm

It was like watching paint dry...bit better this half.

Stick to Watching the falcons and Leicester for razamataz games Wink Very Happy

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Cyril on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 3:53 pm

Cracking try by Spencer! Bonus point for Sarries.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 3:59 pm

Yeah good try...hopefully he'll get lots of game time for Sarries this season. England need some SH's coming through.

Hopefully that totally smashes Wuss mental state for the rest of the season Very Happy

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by stub on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 4:20 pm

Don't think this will be a massive shock or surprise for the Warriors Geordie and they are missing a few influential players so I am fairly confident their mental state will be just fine thank you! Wink

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 4:26 pm

Prince Harry not looking entirely comfortable at 10 for Saints. However, an ankle injury for Foden might give his Dad cause to move him, and bring on Myler.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by doctor_grey on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 4:42 pm

Buggeration.  My flight from New York got in late and I got to my Dad's house about 30 minutes ago.  I love that man - I arrive, go in the kitchen and see a note telling me he went to the Gardens to watch Saints - without me.  He couldn't have gone and left the ticket for me, could he?  It's on the way from Heathrow.  Instead he took a woman half his age......

And I see scores:  Saracens put an apparent workman like humping on Worcester, who seem to have their away jerseys designed by the same drunk who designed the Tigers one.

And my Saints are under-performing against Bath.  I blame my olde man.  I flew 3500 miles to see them and my olde man takes a woman instead.  Next thing I know I will be told to only use the back door tonight.

Come on you Saints!


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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Welly on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 4:44 pm

Bristol looking very good ATM.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by stub on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 4:47 pm

doctor_grey wrote:Buggeration.  My flight from New York got in late and I got to my Dad's house about 30 minutes ago.  I love that man - I arrive, go in the kitchen and see a note telling me he went to the Gardens to watch Saints - without me.  He couldn't have gone and left the ticket for me, could he?  It's on the way from Heathrow.  Instead he took a woman half his age......

And I see scores:  Saracens put an apparent workman like humping on Worcester, who seem to have their away jerseys designed by the same drunk who designed the Tigers one.

And my Saints are under-performing against Bath.  I blame my olde man.  I flew 3500 miles to see them and my olde man takes a woman instead.  Next thing I know I will be told to only use the back door tonight.

Come on you Saints!


Sounds like he may have his priorities correctly sorted!! Wink

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by doctor_grey on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 5:03 pm

I know the girl. Sweet personality. A little naïve. Nice rack.

Brizzle is looking good, eh?

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 5:03 pm

Nick Easter has his work cut out with the Quins defence on the evidence so far.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by stub on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 5:11 pm

Yup Brizzle looking worryingly good.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Recwatcher16 on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 5:42 pm

Bath winning ugly - we'll take that.

Fingers crossed on the back row injuries from today. Falcons next week could be interesting if Faletau, Denton, Mercer are out with Louw away. Some Academy lads could be getting a chance in the season earlier than anticipated.

Front five looking good ( with Wilson and Charteris not around today ), given the way they took on the much vaunted Saints pack.
Cook added another yellow card to his collection.

Looking forward to a full house next week.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by stub on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 6:23 pm

Hard luck to Bristol - pushed Quins very hard. It's going to be tight at the bottom this year.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by ChequeredJersey on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 7:19 pm

Quins were fortuitous but will take the win in what were quite unpleasant conditions and out record at big Twickers isn't great.

Well done and bad luck, Brizzle. Best of luck throughout the season

Some good stuff for Quins (maul, BD, some defence, scrum solid, Roberts, etc) but poor errors from our back 3 and especially Care. Lots to work on, hope we can do it and hope Brown is back soon

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by stub on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 7:34 pm

Yes CJ, I thought you probably weren't at your best today.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 8:01 pm

Falcons should go to bath confident they can match them.


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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 9:11 pm

stub wrote:Don't think this will be a massive shock or surprise for the Warriors Geordie and they are missing a few influential players so I am fairly confident their mental state will be just fine thank you! Wink

Just as well because on the unoffy the wuss fans are to a man convinced they are WAY better than us.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by stub on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 10:55 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
stub wrote:Don't think this will be a massive shock or surprise for the Warriors Geordie and they are missing a few influential players so I am fairly confident their mental state will be just fine thank you! Wink

Just as well because on the unoffy the wuss fans are to a man convinced they are WAY  better than us.

Well Geordie, that still remains to be seen but we will find out in a few months that much is for sure. For me there is not too much in it either way. Today's result was always going to be something like this and I'm not going to reformulate my predictions just yet. Still think the head to heads at the bottom will decide matters. Bristol looked better than expected though..

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Heaf on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 1:43 am

Just watched the Quins/Bristol match - seems Luke Pearce and his TMO must go to the same optician as Wayne Barnes.  The 2nd Quins try was as clear as day off a forward pass - how they could review it and still get it wrong is baffling ...

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Cumbrian on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 9:07 am

I couldn't believe The Quins second try stood either, my Bristol supporting mate was tearing his hair out and I casually told him not to worry, it was going to be called forward and Bristol would go into the break in front. Couldn't believe it when it was actually given! What were they looking at?!

Also, we were in a pub with the sound tuned off, why were Quins given a penalty straight off the kick off after the first try? We asked around but nobody seemed to know We couldn't see anything untoward, you only normally see it if a player has committed an offence on the player who is about to score a try (like sliding in with the knees). I haven't been able to see anything about it in any of the match reports.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 9:29 am

Cumbrian wrote:Also, we were in a pub with the sound tuned off, why were Quins given a penalty straight off the kick off after the first try? We asked around but nobody seemed to know  We couldn't see anything untoward, you only normally see it if a player has committed an offence on the player who is about to score a try (like sliding in with the knees). I haven't been able to see anything about it in any of the match reports.

Jordan Crane was talking back to the ref after the first try was scored. Care a couple of times and Cole on Friday were penalised for the same - seems to be a hot topic.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 9:31 am

Heaf wrote:Just watched the Quins/Bristol match - seems Luke Pearce and his TMO must go to the same optician as Wayne Barnes.  The 2nd Quins try was as clear as day off a forward pass - how they could review it and still get it wrong is baffling ...

Because with the interpretation they have been given to use this season, where the ball goes is completely irrelevant, just rhe movement of the arms counts.


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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Cumbrian on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 9:47 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:Also, we were in a pub with the sound tuned off, why were Quins given a penalty straight off the kick off after the first try? We asked around but nobody seemed to know  We couldn't see anything untoward, you only normally see it if a player has committed an offence on the player who is about to score a try (like sliding in with the knees). I haven't been able to see anything about it in any of the match reports.

Jordan Crane was talking back to the ref after the first try was scored. Care a couple of times and Cole on Friday were penalised for the same - seems to be a hot topic.
Really?  I've never seen a penalty given straight off the kick off like that for dissent, must be cracking down on it.


I cannot square this 'interpretation' of the forward pass, the ball clearly went forward.  I do not understand why it needs to be more complicated than that.  If you pass the ball forward, it should be called a forward pass!

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 9:54 am

It is all down to the fact they proved that a ball can travel forwards that was actually passed backwards initially - and then that to a person running it looks backwards, but to someone stationery not. Then research showed about 75% of tries have passes in them somewhere that travel forwards at some point. I was as surprised as anyone that Yarde's pop to Marchant was not called forward - but listening to ref and TMO it was clear they were describing Yardes arm movements as consistent with a legal pass.


As to Crane, I have seen that happen before, but not in as big a game. In the pre-season refs meeting much was made of the increased chatter towards refs from players, including calling for cards or reviews. It was agreed they would be tough on this to prevent it escalating even more. at the same meeting it was also agreed that they would trust their own view more and not constantly refer to the TMO.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Heaf on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 2:12 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Heaf wrote:Just watched the Quins/Bristol match - seems Luke Pearce and his TMO must go to the same optician as Wayne Barnes.  The 2nd Quins try was as clear as day off a forward pass - how they could review it and still get it wrong is baffling ...

Because with the interpretation they have been given to use this season, where the ball goes is completely irrelevant, just rhe movement of the arms counts.

Yes I understand that but both the ones I'm talking about had forward arm movements too IMO ... nothing to do with momentum etc

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by ChequeredJersey on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 2:57 pm

For what it's worth I thought we were very lucky that our second try was allowed, Heaf. But at the stadium so didn't have a great view

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 3:35 pm

Heaf wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Heaf wrote:Just watched the Quins/Bristol match - seems Luke Pearce and his TMO must go to the same optician as Wayne Barnes.  The 2nd Quins try was as clear as day off a forward pass - how they could review it and still get it wrong is baffling ...

Because with the interpretation they have been given to use this season, where the ball goes is completely irrelevant, just rhe movement of the arms counts.

Yes I understand that but both the ones I'm talking about had forward arm movements too IMO ... nothing to do with momentum etc

Either we are talking about different incidents or I disagree.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 3:36 pm

Contact made with Cip's chin and he clutches his eyes!!

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Heaf on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 3:43 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Heaf wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Heaf wrote:Just watched the Quins/Bristol match - seems Luke Pearce and his TMO must go to the same optician as Wayne Barnes.  The 2nd Quins try was as clear as day off a forward pass - how they could review it and still get it wrong is baffling ...

Because with the interpretation they have been given to use this season, where the ball goes is completely irrelevant, just rhe movement of the arms counts.

Yes I understand that but both the ones I'm talking about had forward arm movements too IMO ... nothing to do with momentum etc

Either we are talking about different incidents or I disagree.
Glaws first try and Quins Yarde offload - both looked like the ball came out of the hands going forwards to me (irrespective of any momentum effect) - but that's just my opinion of course (plus the majority of others I've heard however).

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Welly on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 3:52 pm

Wasps look very beatable ATM.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 3:54 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:Also, we were in a pub with the sound tuned off, why were Quins given a penalty straight off the kick off after the first try? We asked around but nobody seemed to know  We couldn't see anything untoward, you only normally see it if a player has committed an offence on the player who is about to score a try (like sliding in with the knees). I haven't been able to see anything about it in any of the match reports.

Jordan Crane was talking back to the ref after the first try was scored. Care a couple of times and Cole on Friday were penalised for the same - seems to be a hot topic.

Good to see it. I felt there was a bit too much of that at times last season.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Rugby Fan on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 4:27 pm

Wasps showing signs of what they can do but looking very unfamiliar with each other. They are still giving Exeter a run for their money but hard to tell whether they will get it together for a strong season, or flatter to deceive.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by nathan on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 4:46 pm

Awful decision to give that pen to wasps, should of gone the other way.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Heaf on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 4:49 pm

Quite a few dodgy calls both way tbh ..

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Rugby Fan on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 4:51 pm

25-20 win for Wasps. They'll definitely take that, after being down 8-20 during the match.

Commentary team thinks the bench strength helped Wasps, and it certainly looked like they had control of the match in the final quarter.

Interesting that the two England young guns - Mallinder and Slade - started the season at fly half, and both ended up on the losing side.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by nathan on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 4:57 pm

Heaf wrote:Quite a few dodgy calls both way tbh ..
Didn't see the whole game so I can't judge, reffing hasn't been great this weekend for all teams.

Perhaps the refs need to find some form too or just get used to the change in how things are reffed - I think we're heading for refs that allow a free flowing game which is great but will annoy some at the things they let go.

Wonder if Eddie has had anything to do with the chnage

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Heaf on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 5:02 pm

Yes it's been decidedly average ...

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Post by Rugby Fan on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 5:21 pm

nathan wrote:...Perhaps the refs need to find some form too or just get used to the change in how things are reffed...

I noticed the backchat backlash, while the perennial forward pass conundrum has moved back in favour of some dodgy calls.

Odd thing happened in the Wasps match. Ball was at Nathan Hughes' feet at the back of the scrum, and the ref said "Use it". He kept the ball in, and the scrum powered forward, and the ref then penalized Exeter for an infringement as they were back-pedalling.

It's possible the ref just realized he'd been a bit hasty: Dallaglio claimed he'd made the same call at a previous scrum when the ball was still in the second row. However, if you are the Exeter scrum, and you hear "Use it" then you probably aren't expecting the referee will allow Wasps to drive you back another two or three metres with impunity.

Alternatively, perhaps "Use it" no longer just means clearing the ball from the back of the scrum, but can now also include putting on an extra shove. I'd like that to be the case, but it would be good to know if it's official policy.

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Re: Aviva Premiership - Round 1

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