BBC Northern Ireland

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BBC Northern Ireland

Post by PhilBB on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

As far as I can tell, BBCNI televise nigh on (if not) all of Ulster's home games.

We know that the broadcast income of the PrO'12 is c.€14m.

We know that BBC Wales pay £4.5m and Sky £5.5m. So that's £10m. So around €12m, dependent upon the day of the week. We're told that TG4 pay €900,000 and Alba £150,000 (so call that €1.1m for ease of figures).

Therefore, is BBCNI paying the difference? That would be £750,000 tops for 11 games.

Am I close? Does anybody have the figures?
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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:53 am

Wayne that's for all broadcasters not just BBC Wales, so Scarlets v Munster is on this weekend on Sky exclusively so they can show Munster v Scarlets but RTE and BBC Wales can too

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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by wayne on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 11:58 am

marty2086 wrote:Wayne that's for all broadcasters not just BBC Wales, so Scarlets v Munster is on this weekend on Sky exclusively so they can show Munster v Scarlets but RTE and BBC Wales can too
Cheers Marty, I'm not going senile then, I thought I read it somewhere.

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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 12:01 pm

wayne wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Wayne that's for all broadcasters not just BBC Wales, so Scarlets v Munster is on this weekend on Sky exclusively so they can show Munster v Scarlets but RTE and BBC Wales can too
Cheers Marty, I'm not going senile then, I thought I read it somewhere.

You could still be going senile Erm

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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by wayne on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 12:10 pm

marty2086 wrote:
wayne wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Wayne that's for all broadcasters not just BBC Wales, so Scarlets v Munster is on this weekend on Sky exclusively so they can show Munster v Scarlets but RTE and BBC Wales can too
Cheers Marty, I'm not going senile then, I thought I read it somewhere.

You could still be going senile Erm
Yes my wife would agree with that Whistle
Never mind I'll have my fix on Friday night.

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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by Kingshu on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 1:31 pm

Pot Hale wrote:The TV rights to the PRO12 were negotiated first for a primary broadcaster i.e. a broadcaster who could televise matches in the four relevant territories - Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland.

The reported deal was worth 20m over four years.  It gave Sky primary rights on which matches it wanted to televise in Wales, Scotland or Ireland.   Up to a maximum of 30 matches per season, not including the playoffs.

This was negotiated first.

The next biggest deal was with BBC Wales, in partnership with S4C for whom BBC Wales is contractually obliged to provide a certain number of hours of programming each year.    The combined annual budget of BBC Wales/S4c is in the order of 160m.   The Welsh TV territory covers four teams.   BBC Wales want to cover all the home games of the Welsh teams that were not selected exclusively by Sky.  (Secondary rights on some matches allow for co-broadcasting with a terrestrial partner in the four TV territories).

BBC Wales/S4C bid for all the Welsh matches of the four teams and Celtic Rugby negotiated a price based on what they wanted.   As can be seen from this season's schedule, BBC Wales/S4C have more matches than any other terrestrial broadcaster since they were willing to pay for them.

In the Republic of Ireland TV territory, there are three teams.  RTE, the national public service broadcaster, chose to opt out from the rights once Sky announced they had got the primary rights.   It was left to TV3 and to TG4, minor stations at the time with relatively small spending budgets to pitch if they wanted to.  Tv3 chose not to.  TG4, as a niche Irish language channel, chose to continue showing the Irish team matches that Sky were not broadcasting.   They bid for these matches.   Their annual budget is around 40m - about 25% of the Welsh budget.   Their price is 1m approx.

BBC Alba is also a small budget station, with two teams to cover, with their selection restricted to what remained after Sky had made their pick.

BBC Northern Ireland has one team in its broadcast territory with on average 9 regular season games to show.   Their budget and price reflects the market accordingly.  (Ulster TV does not do rugby.)

BBC Wales/S4C with their much bigger annual budget, and greater amount of teams will always be the bigger terrestrial player, until such time as the market changes and another competitor emerges.

The TV market in Ireland has changed since the last TV rights were negotiated  and the value and viewership (satellite and terrestrial) has increased across the four TV territories.  BBC is the dominant terrestrial force in three of them.

As Anayi remarked in his BBC Radio Five interview, the PRO12 will be looking for a bigger number the next time.

As a postscript, it was reported previously in media that the Welsh teams benefit proportionately from the overall amount that the terrestrial TV deals bring in.  Thus, if BBC Wales deal brings in 3 times as much as other stations, then the WRU gets a proportionate portion of these overall monies.   The Sky monies are distributed by number of teams per union.

I have been wondering about this, the WRU have managed to get it that they get a bigger share of the TV rights, due to the SC4 deal, rather than all TV monies going into a central pot and divided, like the SKY deal. I wonder if US teams do get added, and the US get a massive TV contact will the regions insist that the US teams get the majority of the TV deal, or change it so its all centralised?

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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 4:29 pm

Kingshu wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:The TV rights to the PRO12 were negotiated first for a primary broadcaster i.e. a broadcaster who could televise matches in the four relevant territories - Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland.

The reported deal was worth 20m over four years.  It gave Sky primary rights on which matches it wanted to televise in Wales, Scotland or Ireland.   Up to a maximum of 30 matches per season, not including the playoffs.

This was negotiated first.

The next biggest deal was with BBC Wales, in partnership with S4C for whom BBC Wales is contractually obliged to provide a certain number of hours of programming each year.    The combined annual budget of BBC Wales/S4c is in the order of 160m.   The Welsh TV territory covers four teams.   BBC Wales want to cover all the home games of the Welsh teams that were not selected exclusively by Sky.  (Secondary rights on some matches allow for co-broadcasting with a terrestrial partner in the four TV territories).

BBC Wales/S4C bid for all the Welsh matches of the four teams and Celtic Rugby negotiated a price based on what they wanted.   As can be seen from this season's schedule, BBC Wales/S4C have more matches than any other terrestrial broadcaster since they were willing to pay for them.

In the Republic of Ireland TV territory, there are three teams.  RTE, the national public service broadcaster, chose to opt out from the rights once Sky announced they had got the primary rights.   It was left to TV3 and to TG4, minor stations at the time with relatively small spending budgets to pitch if they wanted to.  Tv3 chose not to.  TG4, as a niche Irish language channel, chose to continue showing the Irish team matches that Sky were not broadcasting.   They bid for these matches.   Their annual budget is around 40m - about 25% of the Welsh budget.   Their price is 1m approx.

BBC Alba is also a small budget station, with two teams to cover, with their selection restricted to what remained after Sky had made their pick.

BBC Northern Ireland has one team in its broadcast territory with on average 9 regular season games to show.   Their budget and price reflects the market accordingly.  (Ulster TV does not do rugby.)

BBC Wales/S4C with their much bigger annual budget, and greater amount of teams will always be the bigger terrestrial player, until such time as the market changes and another competitor emerges.

The TV market in Ireland has changed since the last TV rights were negotiated  and the value and viewership (satellite and terrestrial) has increased across the four TV territories.  BBC is the dominant terrestrial force in three of them.

As Anayi remarked in his BBC Radio Five interview, the PRO12 will be looking for a bigger number the next time.

As a postscript, it was reported previously in media that the Welsh teams benefit proportionately from the overall amount that the terrestrial TV deals bring in.  Thus, if BBC Wales deal brings in 3 times as much as other stations, then the WRU gets a proportionate portion of these overall monies.   The Sky monies are distributed by number of teams per union.

I have been wondering about this, the WRU have managed to get it that they get a bigger share of the TV rights, due to the SC4 deal, rather than all TV monies going into a central pot and divided, like the SKY deal. I wonder if US teams do get added, and the US get a massive TV contact will the regions insist that the US teams get the majority of the TV deal, or change it so its all centralised?

In fairness, BBC Wales has been the longest and most loyal TV partner of the Celtic League/PRO 12 since its inception. Coverage in other territories was somewhat piecemeal until the arrival of a sponsor and greater profile. If the previous reports are accurate, I think it's fair that the Welsh regions benefit more from the income for their home games in their broadcast territory. However, with the advent of all these channels moving onto various digital platforms, that is likely to change how markets are perceived and valued.

BT likely paid £125m for their four-year TV contract and exclusivity to cover a certain amount of games. The price bar had already been set by the incumbent, so PRL had that advantage in their negotiations. For Sky and PRO12, they paid a moderate price for a first time product. It depends on what they want to do next time around. Have viewing figures met or exceeded their expectations? What are other advertisers and sponsors doing around it? Profile of league, competitiveness, quality, etc. Will other multi-territory players want to bid against Sky - BT, Eirsport, VirginMedia/TV3? Ideally for PRO12, they would want to. Eirsport (formerly Setanta) have said they would be interested.

With FIR now involved as a shareholder in the league, the distribution of future TV deals will change.

Ideally, Celtic Rugby who negotiate all the TV deals, including Italy, would want to centralise all TV income, and distribute on an agreed proportionate basis likely based on number of teams involved in the league. A US TV deal might just focus on the home games for the US teams, and a feed for away games. Or there may be additional interest in matches involving teams from Ireland or Italy.
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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 4:44 pm

Pot Hale wrote:BT likely paid £125m for their four-year TV contract and exclusivity to cover a certain amount of games.  The price bar had already been set by the incumbent, so PRL had that advantage in their negotiations.  For Sky and PRO12, they paid a moderate price for a first time product.  It depends on what they want to do next time around.  Have viewing figures met or exceeded their expectations?  What are other advertisers and sponsors doing around it?   Profile of league, competitiveness, quality, etc.  Will other multi-territory players want to bid against Sky - BT, Eirsport, VirginMedia/TV3?   Ideally for PRO12, they would want to.  Eirsport (formerly Setanta) have said they would be interested.
 

BT also paid a big price for a number of reasons, they were given huge budgets to go out and pretty much screw Sky over. The raison d'etre for BT Sport was to flog BT broadband and draw people to it as it was losing out in the marketplace to Sky.

The AP was the first Sky contract to come up for renewal in BTs life and they went all in for it. You just have to look at the Champions League and PL and how they have flashed the cash there too.

The AP deal is being proportionally higher Im sure is nothing to do with PRLs move away from the HC either.

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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 4:54 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:BT likely paid £125m for their four-year TV contract and exclusivity to cover a certain amount of games.  The price bar had already been set by the incumbent, so PRL had that advantage in their negotiations.  For Sky and PRO12, they paid a moderate price for a first time product.  It depends on what they want to do next time around.  Have viewing figures met or exceeded their expectations?  What are other advertisers and sponsors doing around it?   Profile of league, competitiveness, quality, etc.  Will other multi-territory players want to bid against Sky - BT, Eirsport, VirginMedia/TV3?   Ideally for PRO12, they would want to.  Eirsport (formerly Setanta) have said they would be interested.
 

BT also paid a big price for a number of reasons, they were given huge budgets to go out and pretty much screw Sky over. The raison d'etre for BT Sport was to flog BT broadband and draw people to it as it was losing out in the marketplace to Sky.

The AP was the first Sky contract to come up for renewal in BTs life and they went all in for it. You just have to look at the Champions League and PL and how they have flashed the cash there too.

The AP deal is being proportionally higher Im sure is nothing to do with PRLs move away from the HC either.

It was smart business by both parties. I'm trying to recall when the European TV rights come up for negotiation again - should be an interesting bunfight.
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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 5:03 pm


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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 5:51 pm

marty2086 wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10725732/First-call-for-BT-over-Sky-Sports-on-games-in-European-club-rugbys-brave-new-era-next-season.html

Apparently its 2020, as the first deal was for 6 years.

Which is generous for the broadcasters

Agreed. Presumably BT pushed to get longer to ensure they get a firm foothold.

I wonder how much of the fabled £152m BT price was for the European English home games, and what was the eventual TV deal for the new cups?
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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 6:05 pm

If it was a shorter contract, odds are it would cost the broadcasters more to renew but the ECPR sign a 6 year deal

Makes loads of sense

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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 6:08 pm

marty2086 wrote:If it was a shorter contract, odds are it would cost the broadcasters more to renew but the ECPR sign a 6 year deal

Makes loads of sense

Yep - that's a fair assumption.
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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by Cardiff Dave on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 10:11 pm

marty2086 wrote:BBC would have the figures, you tried asking?

An MP did recently ask for Beeb gravy train figures if i'm not much mistaken. Haven't heard anything since. All still on their hols while everything is repeated, again.

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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by Cardiff Dave on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 10:13 pm

Wonder what Lineker and Shearer are on for chopsing the bleeding obvious for 20mins per week?

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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 10:40 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
marty2086 wrote:BBC would have the figures, you tried asking?

An MP did recently ask for Beeb gravy train figures if i'm not much mistaken. Haven't heard anything since. All still on their hols while everything is repeated, again.

Would the BBC hand out specific commercial figures on a broadcast contract - particularly in sport where it's under pressure?
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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by marty2086 on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 10:15 am

Pot Hale wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
marty2086 wrote:BBC would have the figures, you tried asking?

An MP did recently ask for Beeb gravy train figures if i'm not much mistaken. Haven't heard anything since. All still on their hols while everything is repeated, again.

Would the BBC hand out specific commercial figures on a broadcast contract - particularly in sport where it's under pressure?

Im pretty sure the Culture committee get the figures for the BBC

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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 10:46 am

PhilBB wrote:Age: 54.

Sorry, Phil is there an age limit on taking the wee-wee now ?

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Re: BBC Northern Ireland

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