US Open - Day Ten

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US Open - Day Ten

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 1:46 pm

Day Ten offers up a couple of mouth-watering QF'S in the men's singles. Andy Murray faces Kei Nishikori and all the stats and form point to a Murray win. in the evening match Stan Wawrinka takes on Juan Martin Del Potro in a clash of two big-hitters. My money is on the big Argentine but should be a cracker.
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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Born Slippy on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 3:29 pm

Two crackers. Obviously hoping for a Murray win and also that Stan avenges his loss at Wimbledon. Murray v Stan is the perfect SF. I suspect though that DP's remorseless power will see him through.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Guest on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 4:48 pm

There is nothing to suggest Nishikori will beat Murray.  With regards the Wawrinka - Del Potro match I think they are more or less evenly matched and it is difficult to call.  Del Potro likes to slow the pace down (between points), is not a particularly good mover and can fatigue (when rushed), but he has a good serve and great ground shots.  I think Wawrinka will win but would like to be proved wrong.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by lags72 on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 4:55 pm

Yes, crackers on paper, and let's hope they turn out to be so in reality.

There has been a (relative) paucity of thrills in this USO so far. And of course the fact that most of Djokovic's opponents have had to either withdraw or retire hasn't exactly helped. Not so bad for TV viewers, but quite some disappointment for anyone who had bought tickets for his match days.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 7:27 pm

Just got home hoping to see the start of the first QF and Murray already a set up. What happened?

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 7:35 pm

Well, according to McEnroe, he's never seen Murray timing the ball better. Any truth or the usual commentator hyperbole?

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 9:17 pm

Ouch! That's going to hurt. Murray squanders easy put away and is broken from 40-0. Just can't seem to hang onto breaks. Given the mental dominance he has accumulated over Kei, this has to go down as a poor display in sets 2 and 3. It looks like anyone's from here.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 9:20 pm

Wow! Murray shows great mental resilience and grabs the break straight back. This is in danger of becoming a mug-fest, but at least it's not dull. Can he serve it out from here? I'm not exactly brimming with confidence.....

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 9:22 pm

40-0 again. Uh-oh!

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 9:27 pm

Sweet BH DTL clinches the set, but not the most convincing performance to say the least. There was footage of Novak reacting with an impressed nod when the Dimitrov score line flashed up earlier in the week. In contrast, he'll be licking his lips watching this one. Whatever Novak's alleged off court problems and slightly dicky wrist, you'd be mental to have Murray as favourite if they meet in the final.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 9:30 pm

Wouldn't be surprised if Andy has a mental let down after the travails of that 3rd set. Given Novak probably awaits as fresh as a daisy, he really needs to be ruthless and polish this 4th set off in double quick time.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 9:38 pm

Bit worried that Murray is hitting with too much spin on the FH side. If he does face Novak, he's really going to need to flatten out those shots.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Guest on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 9:48 pm

Murray has to get through Nishikori, Wawrinka or Del Potro, then very likely a much fresher Djokovic. I don't think Murray is going to win the US Open 2016. Looks like Murray is going to lose the fourth set to take it to a fifth. Difficult now to call this quarter-final. Nishikori seems to have the better mind set.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Just John on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:14 pm

2-0 down in the fifth. The noise has ended Murray

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:18 pm

Murray in a serious hole now. Not sure how much he's got left in the tank to make this final set a battle. Kei no doubt is also hurting, but using his head with lots of net approaches. Looking like a deserved winner. Kei is great to watch in full flow, but a shame to see Andy crumble like this.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:19 pm

Will we call it Dong-gate?

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:21 pm

Seriously though, what is it with Murray and these minor irritations? It's pretty embarrassing that a top player can be so easily distracted.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Just John on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:24 pm

2-2

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:25 pm

And there's the break back. This one still has legs.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by whocares on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:28 pm

Am surprised that after all those years Andy has still those sort of minor anger issues. Such a shame really as his issue with the empire that made him replay a point is probably what cost him the 4th set...

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:29 pm

Suddenly, Kei has started to look a bit ragged. Andy serving first, so can hopefully turn the screw by bagging a few cheap service holds. If Andy can keep this set tight, then belief could become a factor, as the H2H is pretty woeful for Kei.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:31 pm

Oh dear! Spoke way too soon. Kei grabs a break from nowhere. Andy looking a tad passive and it's clearly more on Kei's racquet on current balance of play.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Guest on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:32 pm

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Seriously though, what is it with Murray and these minor irritations? It's pretty embarrassing that a top player can be so easily distracted.
I think I have worked it all out. Murray is naturally a passive player. As a passive player he tends to lose when he comes up against the top players. Murray has made himself a top player by overcoming this natural passiveness to become active. To do this Murray has to keep chuntering to himself to motivate himself. He has to keep looking at his coaching team and swearing at them just to get his blood circulating. But sometimes this still doesn't do the trick - he is active but he starts to make lots of mistakes which can be self destructive. It's a fine balance between motivating himself and self destruction. Whether he wins or self-destructs then depends on the mental strength and talent of his opponent.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:34 pm

When was the last time Andy lost in 5? I'm guessing FO15 against Novak. His 5th set record must be pretty good.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:44 pm

Nore Staat wrote:
Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Seriously though, what is it with Murray and these minor irritations? It's pretty embarrassing that a top player can be so easily distracted.
I think I have worked it all out.  Murray is naturally a passive player.  As a passive player he tends to lose when he comes up against the top players.  Murray has made himself a top player by overcoming this natural passiveness to become active.  To do this Murray has to keep chuntering to himself to motivate himself.  He has to keep looking at his coaching team and swearing at them just to get his blood circulating.  But sometimes this still doesn't do the trick - he is active but he starts to make lots of mistakes which can be self destructive.  It's a fine balance between motivating himself and self destruction.  Whether he wins or self-destructs then depends on the mental strength and talent of his opponent.

Agree that he is constantly pushing against his more natural passive instincts and, mentally, that can take its toll. All too often, I think his hard-wired aversion to making errors can overwhelm him and fatally undermine any attempt to inject a more attacking style of play. Against the vast majority of players, he can get away with it, but not against the very best.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:48 pm

Kei with a horrible volley and Andy may have an opening here.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Just John on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:49 pm

4-4

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:50 pm

That must be sickening for Kei. 40-0 up and misses an absolute sitter on 3rd game point. We're back on serve.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:52 pm

Kei still looking very dangerous here. He's playing with lots of attacking intent and, if it comes off, Murray could end up a spectator.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Just John on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:52 pm

5-4 to Murray

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:52 pm

Nore Staat wrote:
Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Seriously though, what is it with Murray and these minor irritations? It's pretty embarrassing that a top player can be so easily distracted.
I think I have worked it all out.  Murray is naturally a passive player.  As a passive player he tends to lose when he comes up against the top players.  Murray has made himself a top player by overcoming this natural passiveness to become active.  To do this Murray has to keep chuntering to himself to motivate himself.  He has to keep looking at his coaching team and swearing at them just to get his blood circulating.  But sometimes this still doesn't do the trick - he is active but he starts to make lots of mistakes which can be self destructive.  It's a fine balance between motivating himself and self destruction.  Whether he wins or self-destructs then depends on the mental strength and talent of his opponent.


I find your your summation bizzare. How on earth is here the clear No.2, if he performs as you describe?

Murray's simply mentally gone after the summer he's had. I expected this two nights ago, but Dimi isn't up to the job

It's hilarious that you think he's some kind of machine and fail to understand that this is one too many trips to the mental well

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:54 pm

Come on! Andy with a solid hold and is one game away.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:56 pm

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:
Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Seriously though, what is it with Murray and these minor irritations? It's pretty embarrassing that a top player can be so easily distracted.
I think I have worked it all out.  Murray is naturally a passive player.  As a passive player he tends to lose when he comes up against the top players.  Murray has made himself a top player by overcoming this natural passiveness to become active.  To do this Murray has to keep chuntering to himself to motivate himself.  He has to keep looking at his coaching team and swearing at them just to get his blood circulating.  But sometimes this still doesn't do the trick - he is active but he starts to make lots of mistakes which can be self destructive.  It's a fine balance between motivating himself and self destruction.  Whether he wins or self-destructs then depends on the mental strength and talent of his opponent.

Agree that he is constantly pushing against his more natural passive instincts and, mentally, that can take its toll. All too often, I think his hard-wired aversion to making errors can overwhelm him and fatally undermine any attempt to inject a more attacking style of play. Against the vast majority of players, he can get away with it, but not against the very best.


Then explain how he's reached three Slam finals, winning one a gold medalist  and clear No.2. I'm amazed that the old passive argument is back, the minute he has a bad hour

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Just John on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 10:56 pm

5-5

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:03 pm

banbrotam wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:
Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Seriously though, what is it with Murray and these minor irritations? It's pretty embarrassing that a top player can be so easily distracted.
I think I have worked it all out.  Murray is naturally a passive player.  As a passive player he tends to lose when he comes up against the top players.  Murray has made himself a top player by overcoming this natural passiveness to become active.  To do this Murray has to keep chuntering to himself to motivate himself.  He has to keep looking at his coaching team and swearing at them just to get his blood circulating.  But sometimes this still doesn't do the trick - he is active but he starts to make lots of mistakes which can be self destructive.  It's a fine balance between motivating himself and self destruction.  Whether he wins or self-destructs then depends on the mental strength and talent of his opponent.


I find your your summation bizzare. How on earth is here the clear No.2, if he performs as you describe?

Murray's simply mentally gone after the summer he's had. I expected this two nights ago, but Dimi isn't up to the job

It's hilarious that you think he's some kind of machine and fail to understand that this is one too many trips to the mental well

Think the use of 'top players' makes Nore's statement sound overly harsh. If you replace with 'all-time greats', I think it's a fair description. No question that Andy can play aggressively and stamp his authority on matches, but all guns blazing has never come naturally too him and I do think he has to push harder than most to keep his aggression levels up.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:08 pm

Well played Kei. Go on and win

Tough on Andy. The summer finally caught up with him

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Calder106 on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:13 pm

Well done to Nishikori. A well deserved win. Played with aggression and for once Murray did not seem to be able to do anything to knock him off his game.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by laverfan on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:15 pm

Good win for Nishikori, but tough match(es) ahead.

Commiserations to Murray fans.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:17 pm

banbrotam wrote:
Aut0Gr4ph wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:
Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Seriously though, what is it with Murray and these minor irritations? It's pretty embarrassing that a top player can be so easily distracted.
I think I have worked it all out.  Murray is naturally a passive player.  As a passive player he tends to lose when he comes up against the top players.  Murray has made himself a top player by overcoming this natural passiveness to become active.  To do this Murray has to keep chuntering to himself to motivate himself.  He has to keep looking at his coaching team and swearing at them just to get his blood circulating.  But sometimes this still doesn't do the trick - he is active but he starts to make lots of mistakes which can be self destructive.  It's a fine balance between motivating himself and self destruction.  Whether he wins or self-destructs then depends on the mental strength and talent of his opponent.

Agree that he is constantly pushing against his more natural passive instincts and, mentally, that can take its toll. All too often, I think his hard-wired aversion to making errors can overwhelm him and fatally undermine any attempt to inject a more attacking style of play. Against the vast majority of players, he can get away with it, but not against the very best.


Then explain how he's reached three Slam finals, winning one a gold medalist  and clear No.2. I'm amazed that the old passive argument is back, the minute he has a bad hour

I'm not sure anyone here is suggesting that Andy can't play great attacking tennis. I also think that Andy has developed his game massively during his career and is miles away from the dogged, junking grinder of his earliest years. However, counter-punching is in his DNA and I don't think he's always comfortable pushing the envelope against the very best. Of course, in modern conditions it can often be tricky to execute a more attacking game plan and it can't be easy for Andy to stray from a formula that works against 99% of the tour.

Agree that the US Open was probably mentally just a bridge too far after a long season and certainly don't think we should read much into this result.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Danny_1982 on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:17 pm

Andy should have won that 3-1. The umpire call should never have affected him that much. To fall apart and lose 7 games in a row is pretty incredible.

Still, an incredible summer and great season in the majors for him. But he'll be kicking himself. Chance missed.

Congrats to Kei.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Henman Bill on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:19 pm

Surprised by this result, after watching Andy in the previous round, I think he was going to the final this year. Didn't see the match but looking at the stats I assume his level was quite a bit down from the previous match.

I hope Monfils beats Djokovic, as that could be a result that makes the difference between a boring and a memorable tournament on the men's side.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:22 pm

Congrats to Kei. Totally deserved the win. Really hoping he can capitalise and make a serious push for the title. However, unfortunately, the stars do appear to be aligning rather nicely for a certain Mr Djokovic and I struggle to see Kei coming through another two close matches. He's not exactly known for his durability and boy is he going to need his body to hold up to have any chance.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:24 pm

Anyone surprised by the momentum shift, simply pays no heed to just how much condition changes have always bothered Murray, far more than it should do for a player of his pedigree

We can all tut tut about how terrible this is and why he does this, but it is what also makes him the player he is

In other words Tennis fans can't have it all, his attention to detail which did for him here, is usually the thing that gets him his win

I also think the umpire was totally wrong, to have stopped play after that 'gong', but I actually don't think it would have made a difference. From the moment the roof went on, Murray was back to his negative conspiracy theory mode - rarely seen this year, but always bubbling under

I wrote earlier this week, that he seems to save his slam stinkers (relatively speaking) for this slam. We would now have to say, he's definitely underachieved here. Only 2008, 11 and 12 can be seen to be as satisfactory outcomes

I still think Cincy was a big mistake. This is the second year on the trot that he's overcooked his summer. He needs to do something radical next year


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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:26 pm

Predictable dissection of Murray's on court persona on Eurosport. That's just how he is and it's not going to change.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:30 pm

Not at all surprised, but still disappointed by such a dramatic shift against a player he should have a mental hold over. Fair play to Kei though. He raised his game and took full advantage.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:32 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Surprised by this result, after watching Andy in the previous round, I think he was going to the final this year. Didn't see the match but looking at the stats I assume his level was quite a bit down from the previous match


He was fine and then the roof closed Rolling Eyes

Yep! It was amazingly that simple.

I reckon if you asked him off the record, he'd prefer the good old days where these slams were outdoor events

I've yet to see a vintage 'start to finish' performance from him indoors, against a pedigree player (there was a Rafa bagel in 2011, but that was one set)

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:39 pm

Murray appearing remarkably sanguine in his presser given how close it was to the end of a painful 5 set loss. I think it shows how little he had left in the tank after a draining summer of tennis. Perhaps no bad thing to avoid a rested Novak in the final.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:41 pm

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Not at all surprised, but still disappointed by such a dramatic shift against a player he should have a mental hold over

Totally agree. Very annoyed as a fan. But we have to understand that these players are human and as Eurosport pointed out, even the likes of Federer can allow distractions to affect them

For me he was always a couple of momentum shifters from going out, his summer would dictate that mentally he'd be close to a blow out. The roof was one of those and then just as he'd got back on top we then had the hilarious 'gong' stoppage. For me neither of them should have happened and I think we then need to perhaps understand that when you've just spent the last four months, mentally battling for all the big prizes a meltdown was inevitable

It's been a great summer. Two out of the three main events is something to proud off and I think only a freak or a totally dominant player could have won the lot. After all nobody's done it before

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:42 pm

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Murray appearing remarkably sanguine in his presser given how close it was to the end of a painful 5 set loss. I think it shows how little he had left in the tank after a draining summer of tennis. Perhaps no bad thing to avoid a rested Novak in the final.


Subtle hint about what he thinks about the roof though, when he talked about it been an 'outdoor event' Wink

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:45 pm

My final thoughts is that is was a good QF and there is no disgrace at going down to almost the final point available in the match. But he looked flat in the 5th set to me and let's be honest Kei should have finished him off sooner

Hope he can really focus on the O2, but that will depend on the Davis Cup and also it's an indoor event!!

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