US Open - Day Ten

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US Open - Day Ten

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 1:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

Day Ten offers up a couple of mouth-watering QF'S in the men's singles. Andy Murray faces Kei Nishikori and all the stats and form point to a Murray win. in the evening match Stan Wawrinka takes on Juan Martin Del Potro in a clash of two big-hitters. My money is on the big Argentine but should be a cracker.
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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Guest on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:56 pm

banbrotam wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:
Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Seriously though, what is it with Murray and these minor irritations? It's pretty embarrassing that a top player can be so easily distracted.
I think I have worked it all out.  Murray is naturally a passive player.  As a passive player he tends to lose when he comes up against the top players.  Murray has made himself a top player by overcoming this natural passiveness to become active.  To do this Murray has to keep chuntering to himself to motivate himself.  He has to keep looking at his coaching team and swearing at them just to get his blood circulating.  But sometimes this still doesn't do the trick - he is active but he starts to make lots of mistakes which can be self destructive.  It's a fine balance between motivating himself and self destruction.  Whether he wins or self-destructs then depends on the mental strength and talent of his opponent.


I find your your summation bizzare. How on earth is here the clear No.2, if he performs as you describe?

Murray's simply mentally gone after the summer he's had. I expected this two nights ago, but Dimi isn't up to the job

It's hilarious that you think he's some kind of machine and fail to understand that this is one too many trips to the mental well
I was explaining a known behavioural pattern whereas your "mentally gone" doesn't really explain anything.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Guest on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:57 pm

Mo Farah for British sporting personality of the year?

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Guest on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 11:59 pm

Well done to Nishikori - I know there are a few fans of Nishikori out there. I think Djokovic must be the red hot favourite for the title now, but wouldn't begrudge a Monfils vs Nishikori final?

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Guest on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 12:03 am

Henman Bill wrote:Surprised by this result, after watching Andy in the previous round, I think he was going to the final this year. Didn't see the match but looking at the stats I assume his level was quite a bit down from the previous match.

I hope Monfils beats Djokovic, as that could be a result that makes the difference between a boring and a memorable tournament on the men's side.
It was actually a moth that caused Murray's downfall.  The radio five live sports extra commentators said it was viciously attacking Murray and Murray completely lost his mind over it.  That's what they said, unbelievable, but apparently true according to them. They also said Lendl stormed out of the arena and they reckon he took the first flight out of New York.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Jermaine2015 on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 12:10 am

Going gets tough, Murray reverts to his spine less best. If it wasn't for a masters 1000 type draw at Wimbledon, Murray wouldn't have fluked an undeserved third major. Big 4 my German backside.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by summerblues on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 2:46 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:Andy Murray faces Kei Nishikori and all the stats and form point to a Murray win.
Nore Staat wrote:There is nothing to suggest Nishikori will beat Murray.
Some very careless pre-match jinxing was going on here.  I would not be surprised if this is what ultimately tipped the balance of the match in Kei's favor.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by summerblues on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 2:49 am

Very pleased with the result.  Unfortunately I did not get to see the match but it must have been pretty exciting - with all the breaks and shifts in momentum.

Great to see Nishi making USO SF again.  Whoever now makes it to the final from the bottom half I will be happy; I quite like all three guys; though for different reasons.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by summerblues on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 2:51 am

Regarding Stan vs Delpo:  I keep telling myself that Delpo can only survive so long without a BH, and that he will be found out and top players will beat him.  I would think Stan is one of those players who should beat him but their Wimbledon result suggests it may not be so simple.

Also, in my books Delpo is far stronger mentally, so if it gets tight, I would favor him.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by summerblues on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 2:57 am

If Nishi makes the final, he will reach #3 in the world for the first time.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by summerblues on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 3:26 am

Nore Staat wrote:Del Potro likes to slow the pace down (between points), is not a particularly good mover and can fatigue (when rushed), but he has a good serve and great ground shots.
I actually think Delpo moves deceptively well for a man his size.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 6:10 am

Obviously, for Murray and his supporters a very disappointing end to a US Open that promised much. I cannot give an opinion as I was working and only followed the scores via the US Open app.

I can't grumble at 2016 though what with three slam final, a second Wimbledon title and an Olympic Gold medal. All Andy can do is brush himself off and move on to the next task at hand.
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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Born Slippy on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 6:57 am

Only watched the last two games, which were hilariously poor from Andy. Sounds like he found a comical number of things to distract him throughout the match. Still, good win for Kei. Hopefully, he can go on to win it.

Stan was hugely impressive against DP, particularly in the last set and a half. Hopefully, whoever does reach the final has enough left to give Novak a game.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 7:59 am

Nore Staat wrote:
banbrotam wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:
Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Seriously though, what is it with Murray and these minor irritations? It's pretty embarrassing that a top player can be so easily distracted.
I think I have worked it all out.  Murray is naturally a passive player.  As a passive player he tends to lose when he comes up against the top players.  Murray has made himself a top player by overcoming this natural passiveness to become active.  To do this Murray has to keep chuntering to himself to motivate himself.  He has to keep looking at his coaching team and swearing at them just to get his blood circulating.  But sometimes this still doesn't do the trick - he is active but he starts to make lots of mistakes which can be self destructive.  It's a fine balance between motivating himself and self destruction.  Whether he wins or self-destructs then depends on the mental strength and talent of his opponent.


I find your your summation bizzare. How on earth is here the clear No.2, if he performs as you describe?

Murray's simply mentally gone after the summer he's had. I expected this two nights ago, but Dimi isn't up to the job

It's hilarious that you think he's some kind of machine and fail to understand that this is one too many trips to the mental well
I was explaining a known behavioural pattern whereas your "mentally gone" doesn't really explain anything.


These days there are little or no passages of passive play. Yet, the moment he has a laboured spell in a match, you bring up the rather IMO lazy dated view of Murray that more or less went in 2012. It's such a puzzling description anyway. What exactly does it mean? You could think somethings passive play and I could think it's simple good 'rope a dope' tactics as do ex-players who understand Murray like Wilander.

Against Lorenzi, there were no passive passages in the first two sets. There was way too much aggression and lots of unforced errors - but I supposed at least it looks, when you have to play more points / games / sets, because you're making too many mistakes and you're not going to get called too passive

And if you don't understand why a player who, since mid June (to say nothing of his efforts for two months before then) has been expected to win every match, might eventually become mentally shot (gone etc) then I suggest you no little about how important the mind been fresh is just as important as the body.

Incidentally, I think he was too passive in the last two sets - but my point that was more to do with the situation and his summer, than this been his default standard of play

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 8:12 am

Nore Staat wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:Surprised by this result, after watching Andy in the previous round, I think he was going to the final this year. Didn't see the match but looking at the stats I assume his level was quite a bit down from the previous match.

I hope Monfils beats Djokovic, as that could be a result that makes the difference between a boring and a memorable tournament on the men's side.
It was actually a moth that caused Murray's downfall.  The radio five live sports extra commentators said it was viciously attacking Murray and Murray completely lost his mind over it.  That's what they said, unbelievable, but apparently true according to them.  They also said Lendl stormed out of the arena and they reckon he took the first flight out of New York.


Did you watch the match? I ask, because Murray was no more distracted by it than Nishikori. I'm not certain, I'd believe anything the Beeb commentate on when it comes to Andy Murray. But please go and see the Eurosport replays and you'll notice that Murray was never the same the moment the roof went on and was enormously frustrated about the 'gong' let

But don't believe me. Here's the Beeb report, which is more factually correct than a couple of comics commentating on the match. Note, that both Nish and Murray cite the roof and 'gong', respectively, as key factors. Nobody mentions the butterfly!!

I'm currently listening to 5 Live and are amazed that they seem to think it was a butterfly, yet there was no mention of the roof - showing that they've become more of about entertainment than sticking to the facts

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 8:14 am

Pleased to see Stan come through. If not only to support my prediction Wink

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 8:23 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:I cannot give an opinion as I was working and only followed the scores via the US Open app


Roof open - Murray cruising

Decision for the roof to close - Murray clearly agitated. He had a point, it was an isolated passing shower

Roof Closed - Murray struggling and actually lucky to win the third set

Mysterious 'Gong' sound - Murray's 2-1 up in the fourth set with a break point and in control of the rally, when a fairly loud noise suddenly occurs, so the umpire stops play for a let. Murray is fuming (one of his best strops as it lasted the rest of the set Rolling Eyes ) but he had a very good point, that those laughing at him miss. This had occurred earlier and the umpire has agreed to always continue play, but for some reason decided that this one was too loud. I suppose when you've had the high intensity summer he's had, a melt down like this was inevitable

Butterfly(middle of fourth set) - Quite honestly, I was expecting this to irritate him but it hardly did. It was removed at the end of the set, but I'm certain that Murray didn't ask for this and also that he never moaned to the umpire. Both players, pointed it out, if it was interfering with their serves, but that was that


It was the great and frustrating summer - but he kept going right until the end and for me it was a good (if annoying) defeat


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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by lydian on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 8:40 am

The roof open/closed shouldn't affect Murray who is adept across all surfaces and conditions. To be fair Kei played really well for many stretches and but for a weaker serve would be a tough challenge for anyone. His BH is world class, like Murrays and his FH can also be devastating, as it was at times. He also dug in. A fair result and yes Murray was probably tired but he competed well, and let's not detract from Kei playing well...this is a potential #3 ranked player we're talking about...no mug.

The person I think Novak would fear most in the final, should he get there, has to be Stan...who he knows can blow him off court and it would be interesting to see what Stan can do on the quickest slam tour surface. I think the win vs Evans has unloaded him and he's a danger to anyone now. My money is actually on Stan to win the title.
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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Danny_1982 on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 9:29 am

Murray was so distracted and annoyed by the decision to replay a break point that he was about to take that it ultimately cost him the match. Simply, his 3 main career rivals would not have allowed it to have such a negative long term impact.

But then that's the difference between his 3 rivals, and Andy. They are just that bit mentally tougher. Andy will ultimately reflect on a very positive year. He is back at his very best, and can hopefully polish up another slam or 3 before any decline.

Novak v Stan final for me. Novak winning in 4.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 9:48 am

Danny_1982 wrote:Murray was so distracted and annoyed by the decision to replay a break point that he was about to take that it ultimately cost him the match. Simply, his 3 main career rivals would not have allowed it to have such a negative long term impact.

But then that's the difference between his 3 rivals, and Andy. They are just that bit mentally tougher. Andy will ultimately reflect on a very positive year. He is back at his very best, and can hopefully polish up another slam or 3 before any decline.

Novak v Stan final for me. Novak winning in 4.



Agree to a degree, but I think some have selective memories

Federer US Open 2009 Final - Row with umpire. Lost control of the match
Novak, Wimby 2013 Final - Row with umpire. Lost further control of the match

And that's just two examples off the top of my head. The only one who I can't remember losing it, is Rafa - who is probably known as the most mentally tough ever

We need to stop this myth that the greats of the past never blew in a slam mat h, Mac lost at least two at his peak. Agassi also. Very few players go through their career without some kind of melt-down. We highlight Andy's because the media are now all over him and he gets himself to these pressure matches as much as anyone has in the past

He's simply not as good at the other three, partially because his game is not robust enough to cope with usual occurrences in comparison to the others

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Guest82 on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 9:58 am

He was distracted by the moth/butterfly. I was watching on American tv and they were making a big deal of it. He swiped it with his racket before the start of the fifth set and the ballboys got rid.

I think the main distraction was the gong sound. He probably would have won the fourth set if it wasn't for that. But as said earlier, you wouldn't see Djokovic/Federer/Rafa throwing a set away because of this.

Has there ever been a more streaky player than Murray? He can lose six games in a row and then win six in a row. I actually expected him to win the fifth set 6-2 when he was 2-0 behind.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Danny_1982 on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 10:02 am

I'll give you the Roger one. The Novak one from 2013, he was never in command of that match. Not even close.

Let me reiterate that I'm a huge Murray fan. Watch all his matches, have supported him since he appeared as a 17 year old at Queens.

I don't think saying he is mentally not as tough as 3 all time greats is unfair. Nor do I think it unfair to say they would be extremely unlikely to unravel and lose 7 games in a row as a result of a meltdown, like Andy did.

I certainly don't have selective memory against the person I support. I perhaps sometimes have it in favour of Andy, but never against. I support Andy to the hilt, but I will also criticise him when I feel it's merited. This is one of those occasions.

That said, as I stated earlier, I feel he's back to his maximum and as a Murray fan that's exciting.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 11:42 am

Guest82 wrote:He was distracted by the moth/butterfly.  I was watching on American tv and they were making a big deal of it.  He swiped it with his racket before the start of the fifth set and the ballboys got rid.

Eurosport didn't mention it that much, but were anticipating Murray blowing up about it. My point is that it was a distraction you'd get from any player - obviously if you're about to serve, you're going to have your concentration broken

Guest82 wrote:I think the main distraction was the gong sound.  He probably would have won the fourth set if it wasn't for that.  But as said earlier, you wouldn't see Djokovic/Federer/Rafa throwing a set away because of this.  

Agree with your first point. I actually think he would have lost the fourth set, even if he'd broken - simply because Kei was mentally refusing to be beaten and when you've been having to raise your game all summer, eventually it catches up. The throwing away of the set, simply has to be taken in the context of everything that went on in the match (roof closing etc) and his high pressure summer. It would be wrong of us not to surely have this caveat - I mean there's a good reason why so few players reach four slam finals in a year

Guest82 wrote:Has there ever been a more streaky player than Murray?

No!! Perhaps Agassi

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 11:53 am

Danny_1982 wrote:I'll give you the Roger one. The Novak one from 2013, he was never in command of that match. Not even close.

Let me reiterate that I'm a huge Murray fan. Watch all his matches, have supported him since he appeared as a 17 year old at Queens.

I don't think saying he is mentally not as tough as 3 all time greats is unfair. Nor do I think it unfair to say they would be extremely unlikely to unravel and lose 7 games in a row as a result of a meltdown, like Andy did.  

I certainly don't have selective memory against the person I support. I perhaps sometimes have it in favour of Andy, but never against. I support Andy to the hilt, but I will also criticise him when I feel it's merited. This is one of those occasions.  

That said, as I stated earlier, I feel he's back to his maximum and as a Murray fan that's exciting.


But I agree that Murray loses it too often in comparison to the others - I've stated that. I also agree he's not mentally as tough and I said that as well

And I laid into him last year, when he lost to Anderson

But this time I think there should be more understanding. Yes he shouldn't have let the 'gong' affect him for all of that set - but I also think there is a lack of relativity. It's like "oh Murray was off again" when he needs to be given great credit for the summer he's had and fighting like mad to the end. It's like Wimby and The Olympics never happened. If it's so easy to just park the pressure and emotion of these great achievements, as some appear to suggest, why is it so hard for the best players to reach all four slam finals in a calendar year?

Murray's weakness is what I love about him Mac and Agassi. I actually hate these non-emotional automatons who play the same way every time. Give me these players, where it's a theatrical roller coaster any day of the week.

And yes, you could argue they'll underachieve and we'll all be scratching our heads occasionally and do psyche evaluations - but they all make the game

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Mr Tom on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 12:52 pm

So not only did I lose with my konta bet, Murray cost me money too lol

Maybe I should just stick to betting on the golf!

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 1:24 pm

lydian wrote:The roof open/closed shouldn't affect Murray who is adept across all surfaces and conditions


I agree, but it does. That's his great weakness. His game is so finely set up, that it has no 'wind resistance', in situations like this. So a change in conditions affects him far more than any other player

But it's also what's brought him his success and it works well for the vast majority of matches, hence his ranking. Unfortunately, there's a dozen or so historical matches, where the big benefit for those matches (variations of pace, very good at every shot) becomes a liability when he's having a bad day.

There's simply no other player like him, against a recently improved Dimi these strengths totally bamboozled the Bulgarian. Significant, these are the conditions that Murray most favours of any slam (night match at US Open without any rain)

I thought to myself that as soon as this (Nishikori) was a day match, he was in trouble and if I'd have known the roof could go on (weather forecast was good so the rain was a bit of a surprise) given that his only Nishikori defeat and really close match was this years Davis Cup, which were both played indoors

In other words he's played Kei, six times outdoors and dropped one set. Contrast that with losing five sets in two matches, indoors

I think Andy, for his achievements, is a poor indoor player. His record at the O2, which is one SF since 2010, is out of step with his general record

I also think Andy, a great student of the game, thinks that he's not that hot indoors - hence the behaviour change after the roof came on

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by socal1976 on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 4:35 pm

Very odd performance from Murray frankly. He was the form horse on tour, talk of number 1 was swirling. Lendl part 2 had him playing the best Tennis I had seen from him ever. But this was bush league or Sunday football in the park. I lost a match in a competition once as well because of frustration over a noise distraction once, I think I was eleven and it never happened again. Why can he not let this Poopie go. He argues with th umpire and totally destroyed his own focus. Very bizarre from an all time great like him this far in his career.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by socal1976 on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 4:44 pm

lydian wrote:

The person I think Novak would fear most in the final, should he get there, has to be Stan...who he knows can blow him off court and it would be interesting to see what Stan can do on the quickest slam tour surface. I think the win vs Evans has unloaded him and he's a danger to anyone now. My money is actually on Stan to win the title.
Yes, I agree on one level that Stan has the pedigree but I think Kei will trouble him worse than Stan. Stan is not a good fast court player. He doesn't return well, has big swings, and extreme grips off both wings. Kei grew up on the deco turf and has already taken Novak out at Ny in convincing fashion. Against Stan I make him an 85-15 favorite against Kei a 70-30 favorite. So Novak should be a heavy favorite against either guy but an even heavier favorite against Stan. Novak's earlier ball striking is too much, and on this surface I will always prefer the earlier, flatter ball striker. Stan's best surface against Novak are the two slow slams, Novak is a much better fast court player and so is Kei. This is Kei's home surface.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Guest82 on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 5:09 pm

banbrotam wrote:
Guest82 wrote:He was distracted by the moth/butterfly.  I was watching on American tv and they were making a big deal of it.  He swiped it with his racket before the start of the fifth set and the ballboys got rid.

Eurosport didn't mention it that much, but were anticipating Murray blowing up about it. My point is that it was a distraction you'd get from any player - obviously if you're about to serve, you're going to have your concentration broken

Guest82 wrote:I think the main distraction was the gong sound.  He probably would have won the fourth set if it wasn't for that.  But as said earlier, you wouldn't see Djokovic/Federer/Rafa throwing a set away because of this.  

Agree with your first point. I actually think he would have lost the fourth set, even if he'd broken - simply because Kei was mentally refusing to be beaten and when you've been having to raise your game all summer, eventually it catches up. The throwing away of the set, simply has to be taken in the context of everything that went on in the match (roof closing etc) and his high pressure summer. It would be wrong of us not to surely have this caveat - I mean there's a good reason why so few players reach four slam finals in a year

Guest82 wrote:Has there ever been a more streaky player than Murray?  

No!! Perhaps Agassi

I think there was a point, probably shortly after the gong, where Murray was about to play a backhand down the line and hit it into the net. He gestured with his racket to say the moth had distracted him - from then on the US commentators where joking that this moth must be Japanese.

I was thinking that streaky Murray hardly ever loses matches when he loses lots of games in a row, but more often loses tight ones when he lets his focus go and cannot concentrate long enough to string enough points together. It turned into one of those matches in the final set. Credit to Nishikori though - he destroyed Murrays second serve (Imagine what Djokovic would have done to it?!?!) and didn't choke when it mattered...

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Guest on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 5:36 pm

I think Djokovic beats Stan & Nishikori fairly comfortably & like Socal I think Nishikori will pose the greater challenge.  Based on past performance I can't see Monfils stopping Djokovic, but some are saying Monfils looks different this US Open 2016, more focused & solid.

Back to Murray's loss - in his interview Murray said he felt fine, he felt good.  I would like to know what Lendl thought but Lendl is not one for making public statements.  I can imagine Lendl was disappointed because Murray effectively lost from a winning position, from a position when Murray was on top.  Murray allowed Nishikori back in the match on several occasions.

So definitely very disappointing especially since Murray is not getting any younger, was up several times in this match, and Djokovic has been showing signs of vulnerability.

But Murray is Murray - see previous comments.  However over the past two years Murray has been having some incredible success: Davis Cup, Wimbledon, Olympics, reaching four grand slam finals.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 6:07 pm

It does follow a pattern that a Murray loss is over-assessed and criticised. If we look at his loss it came against a player ranked well inside the top ten whose best slam results have came on this surface. Murray lost the match - it happens. However, the year Andy has had he has achieved more than 95% of players achieve in their whole career.


Last edited by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 10:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Calder106 on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 6:33 pm

Only really saw the last set and a half. Kei was playing well and dominating most of the time. Playing a lot of the shots that are usually associated with Andy (drops and lobs). Andy just didn't seem to be able to get anything going. When he went for shots he either went long or netted them. Therefore he seemed to be trying to limit his errors by playing safe which didn't work as he kept getting driven back by Kei playing with power.

I thought, like many, that when Nishikori blew a 40-0 service game at 4-3 Murray would come through. However in his service game at 5-5 Murray did not have 1 one first serve in and paid the price. That sort of situation is where Murray is usually strong but yesterday he just didn't seem to be able to get into a consistent groove. Well deserved win for Nishikori. Better player over the course of the match.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 6:39 pm

And lest we forget whilst people try to paint Nishikori as some sort of mug he did beat Djokovic here a couple of years ago.
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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 7:08 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:And lest we forget whilst people try to paint Nishikori as some sort of mug he did beat Djokovic here a couple of years ago.

Nish has always been my favourite of the generation just down from Andy

His all round play and tough mentality, but also intense play make him utterly watchable 

I remember at Aus 2012, when Murray beat Kei, that the man from Japan, would be the one to have the most successful career of that gang, to howls of laughter as apparently he'd struggle to stay in the Top 20

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 7:10 pm

Great article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2016/09/08/andy-murray-adopts-full-meltdown-mode-in-kei-nishikori-us-open-d/

And yes, the US Open is, as I feared, now Andy's most underachieving slam

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Henman Bill on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:31 am

As an umpire when you have a difficult decision too call, you just know that whoever you call it against it is going to march to the chair like a primadonna and give it some lip. So unusual to find someone that would actually respect that they have had to make an almost impossible choice at times, and concede gracefully.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Henman Bill on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:32 am

The good part of Murray's defeat is that he should now be in good form for the Davis Cup, and not tired out.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Henman Bill on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:33 am

summerblues wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Andy Murray faces Kei Nishikori and all the stats and form point to a Murray win.
Nore Staat wrote:There is nothing to suggest Nishikori will beat Murray.
Some very careless pre-match jinxing was going on here.  I would not be surprised if this is what ultimately tipped the balance of the match in Kei's favor.
thumbsup

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by summerblues on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:21 am

It has been a while since we only had one member of the Big 4 in a slam SF.

The last time it happened was at RG 2010. That year Nadal beat Soderling in the final, and Berdych and Melzer were the other two semifinalists.

The last time this happened at the USO was ten years ago. In 2006, Federer beat Roddick in the final, with Davydenko and Youzhny being the losing semifinalists.

The last time it happened in the other two slams was:

AO - 2007 (Federer beat Gonzalez in the final, SFs also had Roddick and Haas)

Wimbledon - 2005 (Federer beat Roddick in the final, Hewitt and Johansson were also in SF).

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by summerblues on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:26 am

I did not see Murray vs Nishi match but I was looking at some stats at the USO page.  This one struck me as very one-sided.  For those of you who were watching, did it really feel like this is true?:

Nishi:  8 return winners; 2 return UEs
Andy: 0 return winners; 11 return UEs

I know Nishi returns well, but so does Andy, and this seems so lopsided.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by banbrotam on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 10:27 am

Henman Bill wrote:
summerblues wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Andy Murray faces Kei Nishikori and all the stats and form point to a Murray win.
Nore Staat wrote:There is nothing to suggest Nishikori will beat Murray.
Some very careless pre-match jinxing was going on here.  I would not be surprised if this is what ultimately tipped the balance of the match in Kei's favor.
thumbsup

Laugh If poor Andy reads some of Nore Staat analysis of him, he'll never pick up a racquet again  Wink

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Guest82 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 3:14 pm

summerblues wrote:I did not see Murray vs Nishi match but I was looking at some stats at the USO page.  This one struck me as very one-sided.  For those of you who were watching, did it really feel like this is true?:

Nishi:  8 return winners; 2 return UEs
Andy: 0 return winners; 11 return UEs

I know Nishi returns well, but so does Andy, and this seems so lopsided.

In sets four & five Murray was just trying to blast his second serve return, this was leading to a lot of errors. Probably in the main because he was angry/lost his head etc. During sets 1-3 Murray returned quite well, although not hitting winners he was taking charge of a lot of the points from his return.

Nishikori returned very well, really put pressure on Murray to make first serves. Some of the return winners he hit were off 100mph second serves too.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by Born Slippy on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 8:12 pm

Yeah, I've only seen the last 2 sets. Murray did well to make the last set close as he was playing very poorly, by his usual standards. I think 8 of those return UEs were in those two sets.

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Re: US Open - Day Ten

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 10 Sep 2016, 11:47 am

summerblues wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Andy Murray faces Kei Nishikori and all the stats and form point to a Murray win.
Nore Staat wrote:There is nothing to suggest Nishikori will beat Murray.
Some very careless pre-match jinxing was going on here.  I would not be surprised if this is what ultimately tipped the balance of the match in Kei's favor.

Not at all. I don't buy jinxing BS. I spoke my mind throughout the tournament and tipped Murray to win each of his previous matches so why didn't the jinx strike then? And do you know what? If the QF was played again tomorrow I'd still tip Murray to win again. A 7-2 (now) head to head does that sort of thing.
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