Ireland 2016/17 season

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Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by profitius on Tue 13 Sep 2016, 5:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

AI's
Nov 5th New Zealand vs Ireland Chicago
Nov 12th Ireland vs Canada
Nov 19th Ireland Vs New Zealand
Nov 26th Ireland vs Australia


6 Nations
Feb 4th Scotland vs Ireland
Feb 11th Italy vs Ireland
Feb 25th Ireland vs France
Mar 10th Wales vs Ireland
Mar 18th Ireland vs England


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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 4:43 pm

Schmidt obviously doesn't rate any Ulster players except Best, Trimble and Bowe. Those players he intends to keep he will criticise in private, but the rest are fair game as public scapegoats.

Maybe Schmidt is preparing the way for Carberry on the bench?

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Munchkin on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 5:21 pm

Yep, that would be my thinking. I can understand Best starting. The line-out problems were not his fault, and he is captain, although Scannell is looking good, and I think POM should be captain, if he can get a start. Toner maybe should make way for Henderson now. Toner's greatest strength was as a line-out operator, and that strength seems to be faltering.
I can understand Schmidt wanting Trimble in the side, for his defensive qualities, but there are plenty of exciting young prospects coming through, including Stockdale.
Bowe simply shouldn't be in the side. Gilroy more than earned a place on the bench ahead of him.

Doubt he would drop Jackson for Carberry. Sexton hasn't too many games left in him. A great player, when on top form, and a real warrior, but injuries have taken there toll and he's just hanging together. He won't be there for the next world cup.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Maine man on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 7:41 pm

So if Ireland lose next week without getting a bonus point, they might end up finishing 5. If that happens I think Joe needs to man up and realise that some changes need to be made to the team. But this is Joe after all so I doubt that there will be any.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 7:42 pm

At the very least if we win we can look forward to a good documentary on the achievement. And unlike the win in south Africa and Chicago there are no follow up games that wipe the gloss off the win. We just all have to get collective amnesia about what happened in the preceding games

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by SecretFly on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 8:13 pm

I'm building the scaffold as we speak. Transporting it to O'Connell street in time for Saturday evening, ready for use if the result is another embarrassment.
I think a good beheading bonfire execution is what the public will demand. So someone remember to bring the matches! Geen can bring the guillotine. He's been sharpening it nicely now for four years.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Munchkin on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 8:22 pm

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:I say. Steady on

I stand by it. Schmidt is a coward who lacks integrity.

That's Mcloskey, Gilroy and Jackson he has thrown under the bus, and he does it for two reasons:

* To deflect from his own failings when Ireland perform badly/lose a game

* To try and attempt to justify his selections (while completely ignoring the failings of his little favourites). Not just in the last game, but the next.

I used to be a big fan of Schmidt, but little respect for the man now.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Griff on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 8:26 pm

C'mon Ireland! Don't let England win the grand slam! Or let them get the world record for wins on the trot, for that matter. I'm confident you can beat England. Seriously. You'll be hurting after a loss and looking to make amends. And Ireland at home is a very very tough proposition for any team, IMO.

No pressure! But we're all rooting for you Smile

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by TightHEAD on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 8:28 pm

Guys we all know Ireland are going to win on Saturday and Schmidt will be regarded a hero.
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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Munchkin on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 8:30 pm

Griff wrote:C'mon Ireland! Don't let England win the grand slam! Or let them get the world record for wins on the trot, for that matter. I'm confident you can beat England. Seriously. You'll be hurting after a loss and looking to make amends. And Ireland at home is a very very tough proposition for any team, IMO.

No pressure! But we're all rooting for you Smile

Whatever my thoughts on Schmidt, I really want us to demolish England next week, although stealing a win would be more than acceptable Smile

TH, he won't be my hero, even with a great win.


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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by SecretFly on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 8:32 pm

Griff wrote:C'mon Ireland! Don't let England win the grand slam! Or let them get the world record for wins on the trot, for that matter. I'm confident you can beat England. Seriously. You'll be hurting after a loss and looking to make amends. And Ireland at home is a very very tough proposition for any team, IMO.

No pressure! But we're all rooting for you Smile

Do you realise how many phases our poor players will have to go through yet one more time to even get close to losing with some respect? Bang, bang, bang, bang.... it ain't going to be pretty.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 8:39 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Guys we all know Ireland are going to win on Saturday and Schmidt will be regarded a hero.

We're due a big game. The recent losses should shove a rocket up the backside of our players. I'm still not sure it will be enough.

However, even when Schmidt wins, people have had their doubts about his tactics. I have to say, Fly has been more consistent than anyone else on here in that regard. Even after most of the wins he expressed his concerns for the current brand of tactics we used. The tactic known as "bang, bang, bang, bang...bang".

I'll be happy if we win and be thankful that Schmidtball prevailed another day. I'll be disappointed when I acknowledge the truth that it is another one off, another big win through bashing the opposition into submission.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 8:58 pm

SecretFly wrote:I'm building the scaffold as we speak. Transporting it to O'Connell street in time for Saturday evening, ready for use if the result is another embarrassment.
I think a good beheading bonfire execution is what the public will demand. So someone remember to bring the matches! Geen can bring the guillotine. He's been sharpening it nicely now for four years.

That is a scurrilous accusation. In fairness I did actually think we would kick on even after the world cup..but now is the time to sharpen Madame guillotine. Allegedly if we lose next weekend Joe will have a win/loss ratio worse than kidney...

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by SecretFly on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 9:11 pm

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I'm building the scaffold as we speak.  Transporting it to O'Connell street in time for Saturday evening, ready for use if the result is another embarrassment.  
I think a good beheading bonfire execution is what the public will demand.  So someone remember to bring the matches!  Geen can bring the guillotine.  He's been sharpening it nicely now for four years.

That is a scurrilous accusation. In fairness I did actually think we would kick on even after the world cup..but now is the time to sharpen Madame guillotine. Allegedly if we lose next weekend Joe will have a win/loss ratio worse than kidney...

.... Which is bizarre considering the talent Kidney had at his disposal...all the Irish folklore legends of yonder epic ages of the past in one basket. Cool Speaking of past legends, though admittedly not really of the Kidney Epoch, what I'd give now for a rollicking, rampaging big hoofer like Horgan.... or even a evasive spin'n'shifter Hickie. Them were the days. Sad We may not have won much but losing was prettier.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by theslosty on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 9:36 pm

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Allegedly if we lose next weekend Joe will have a win/loss ratio worse than kidney...
I read this and thought it couldn't be true...

...it isn't.

Starting with the 2013 November international series Schmidt has had 28 wins, 14 losses and one draw. Kidney's record ended up at 27 wins, 23 losses and 3 draws.
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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 10:00 pm

Nice work!

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by SecretFly on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 10:10 pm

Geen did cover his ass legally by saying 'allegedly' Wink So he can't be sued.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by profitius on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 10:42 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Geen sport voor watjes wrote:I say. Steady on

I stand by it. Schmidt is a coward who lacks integrity.

That's Mcloskey, Gilroy and Jackson he has thrown under the bus, and he does it for two reasons:

* To deflect from his own failings when Ireland perform badly/lose a game

* To try and attempt to justify his selections (while completely ignoring the failings of his little favourites). Not just in the last game, but the next.

I used to be a big fan of Schmidt, but little respect for the man now.


Agreed. It's shocking man management to keep singling players out. And it always seems to be the fringe players.


He's struggling now. Next weekends result will do little to change my mind. The team plays puke rugby and that's only good for the odd one off win.
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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by eirebilly on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 9:36 am

I have never been convinced by Schmidt. Have always felt that Ireland would do better under Cotter.

That said, he has not done too bad but I do feel that his selections and game plan at times are very predictable. I do not see Ireland beating England next week, they are a much better drilled side who embrace free flowing rugby. Ireland simply will not live with them.
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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by marty2086 on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 10:17 am

Munchkin wrote:
Geen sport voor watjes wrote:I say. Steady on

I stand by it. Schmidt is a coward who lacks integrity.

That's Mcloskey, Gilroy and Jackson he has thrown under the bus, and he does it for two reasons:

* To deflect from his own failings when Ireland perform badly/lose a game

* To try and attempt to justify his selections (while completely ignoring the failings of his little favourites). Not just in the last game, but the next.

I used to be a big fan of Schmidt, but little respect for the man now.

McCloskey and Gilroy aren't even first choice for Ulster and have some clear deficiencies

I think Luke Marshall is the hardest done by and now think being overlooked is causing problems with his game and he now seems to be trying to stand out in games and is instead making mistakes he never made before

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Sin é on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 12:37 pm

eirebilly wrote:I have never been convinced by Schmidt. Have always felt that Ireland would do better under Cotter.

That said, he has not done too bad but I do feel that his selections and game plan at times are very predictable. I do not see Ireland beating England next week, they are a much better drilled side who embrace free flowing rugby. Ireland simply will not live with them.

I have always been critical of Schmidt's coaching method because he sucks the confidence out of players by demanding that they don't make any errors, so now they won't take a chance on anything but just stick to the gameplan. He has put his complete faith in Sexton who is Schmidt's onfield voice, so that without Sexton calling the shots, the players lose confidence in each other.

It is noticable that every Munster player says when talking about Erasmus as a coach, that they all mention that he doesn't mind if they make an error (so they are not afraid to make them) and that the rest of the team is prepared to cover for you. Erasmus does not hold confidence killer video sessions on a Monday morning. That is why Simon Zebo looks so much better and happier playing for Munster (and scoring trys for fun).

Schmidt probably suits perfectionist players (who are already very good players) like Paul O'Connell who loves his technical coaching, but his coaching philosophy doesn't suit flair players or the other way around.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by marty2086 on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 12:47 pm

Sin é wrote:
I have always been critical of Schmidt's coaching method because he sucks the confidence out of players by demanding that they don't make any errors, so now they won't take a chance on anything but just stick to the gameplan. He has put his complete faith in Sexton who is Schmidt's onfield voice, so that without Sexton calling the shots, the players lose confidence in each other.

I disagree about the Sexton element, I think the players actually look more cohesive and confident with Jackson at 10 at least in recent times. I think his style brings others into the game more and allows them to play a more open and attacking game

The problem with the game plan is that it relies on brute force too much, guys like Stander, Heaslip etc have to make the small gains and if you loss out in contact you are losing the game. It's also energy sapping and demoralising when these things happen

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by carpet baboon on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 1:27 pm

McFadden? Really? Of all the wingers to pick from. McFadden?

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:00 pm

carpet baboon wrote:McFadden? Really? Of all the wingers to pick from. McFadden?

?

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by carpet baboon on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:02 pm

Been called up to replace bowe

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by rodders on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:06 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Schmidt obviously doesn't rate any Ulster players except Best, Trimble and Bowe. Those players he intends to keep he will criticise in private, but the rest are fair game as public scapegoats.

Maybe Schmidt is preparing the way for Carberry on the bench?

I'd say its more that he's deflecting away from Sexton costing us 17 points.
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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:10 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Geen sport voor watjes wrote:I say. Steady on

I stand by it. Schmidt is a coward who lacks integrity.

That's Mcloskey, Gilroy and Jackson he has thrown under the bus, and he does it for two reasons:

* To deflect from his own failings when Ireland perform badly/lose a game

* To try and attempt to justify his selections (while completely ignoring the failings of his little favourites). Not just in the last game, but the next.

I used to be a big fan of Schmidt, but little respect for the man now.

McCloskey and Gilroy aren't even first choice for Ulster and have some clear deficiencies

I think Luke Marshall is the hardest done by and now think being overlooked is causing problems with his game and he now seems to be trying to stand out in games and is instead making mistakes he never made before

That isn't the point. When McCloskey first came into the squad he was the form player in Ireland apart from Bundee Aki and CJ Stander. He made one offload that didn't work and he was hung out to dry, despite playing reasonably well. He hasn't been the same player since.

Craig Gilroy does have weaknesses, but he didn't show them in that Ireland game. I am still genuinely baffled regarding Schmidt's criticisms of his defensive performance in that particular game. I think he was full of crap and applying popular criticisms of him as a player to cover up for the fact he wasn't going to use him again in the competition.

Either way I think it's poor practice for any coach to publicly criticise any player in the media after the game. Why do it?

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:11 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Been called up to replace bowe

Is that a joke?

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by carpet baboon on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:16 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Been called up to replace bowe

Is that a joke?

I wish it was

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Scottrf on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:18 pm

To be fair, people have been complaining that there aren't enough Leinster players.
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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:19 pm

It isn't a joke.

I'm convinced this is just a display of Schmidt's arrogance. He was criticised for doing this last season (and of course his apologists came running to his defence then) and people are calling for the in-form players to be selected. Schmidt is adamant to show that his own method works and doesn't want to be told what to do.

Fergus McFadden. What possible use is it to bring one of the lesser wingers in Ireland, on the wrong side of 30, into a competition that we have already lost?

Outrageous decision.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:22 pm

Scottrf wrote:To be fair, people have been complaining that there aren't enough Leinster players.

I wouldn't care if that Leinster winger was Adam Byrne. But Fergus McFadden?

Kidney was torn apart for that sort of thing. I can't even remember one as bad as that. McFadden has barely even featured for Leinster this season, as far as I know?

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by rodders on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:22 pm

I bet he gets a hat trick against England...
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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:26 pm

I will probably just laugh if he comes straight in and gets the 23 shirt. It isn't even worth getting annoyed about.

Would he even fit into the top 10 wingers in Ireland? Would he make the top 5 in Leinster?

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Munchkin on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 3:25 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Geen sport voor watjes wrote:I say. Steady on

I stand by it. Schmidt is a coward who lacks integrity.

That's Mcloskey, Gilroy and Jackson he has thrown under the bus, and he does it for two reasons:

* To deflect from his own failings when Ireland perform badly/lose a game

* To try and attempt to justify his selections (while completely ignoring the failings of his little favourites). Not just in the last game, but the next.

I used to be a big fan of Schmidt, but little respect for the man now.

McCloskey and Gilroy aren't even first choice for Ulster and have some clear deficiencies

I think Luke Marshall is the hardest done by and now think being overlooked is causing problems with his game and he now seems to be trying to stand out in games and is instead making mistakes he never made before

As Rory said, that isn't really the point, but McCloskey was playing really well for Ulster when he got his cap for the senior Ireland side, played well and was thrown under the bus for making a couple of mistakes.
Gilroy would probably play a lot more for Ulster, but for IRFU dictating that Bowe starts. Who would you rather start for Ulster? Gilroy played well in his last game for Ireland, yet Schmidt manages to find fault he can report to the media. As soon as he did I knew Gilroy wouldn't feature in any further games for Ireland, unless forced.
Sexton made quite a few errors in the England game, yet it was Jackson he criticised in front of the camera's, even though Ireland seem more fluent and organised with Jackson playing.
Completely agree on Marshall, but would say the same about McCloskey. The have both been treated very poorly, and that's probably had a negative impact on their performances.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 3:32 pm

Munchkin wrote:

I stand by it. Schmidt is a coward who lacks integrity.

That's Mcloskey, Gilroy and Jackson he has thrown under the bus, and he does it for two reasons:

* To deflect from his own failings when Ireland perform badly/lose a game

* To try and attempt to justify his selections (while completely ignoring the failings of his little favourites). Not just in the last game, but the next.

I used to be a big fan of Schmidt, but little respect for the man now.

Only a Munster fan could come up with such dramatic comments.  Yahoo  laughing

You could write a thesis on Munster struggles.


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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Munchkin on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 3:38 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

I stand by it. Schmidt is a coward who lacks integrity.

That's Mcloskey, Gilroy and Jackson he has thrown under the bus, and he does it for two reasons:

* To deflect from his own failings when Ireland perform badly/lose a game

* To try and attempt to justify his selections (while completely ignoring the failings of his little favourites). Not just in the last game, but the next.

I used to be a big fan of Schmidt, but little respect for the man now.

Only a Munster fan could come up with such dramatic comments.  Yahoo  laughing


Nothing wrong with a bit of drama Cool

Oh, and don't call me a Munster fan! mad

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Munchkin on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 3:40 pm

McFadden Headscratch

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 3:40 pm

It sounds like something a Munster fan would say

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Munchkin on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 3:44 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:It sounds like something a Munster fan would say

Maybe I should be more diplomatic, but the truth is the truth no matter how it's wrapped up.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 3:48 pm

Well it obviously isnt the truth as you cannot prove any of your fairly dramatic statements.


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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 3:54 pm

Opinion are opinions and need no proof.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 3:56 pm

McFadden is another blast from the past to replace a blast from the past who really wasn't up to being even first bench option.

Strange choices when Ireland are crying out for something new.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Munchkin on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 3:56 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Well it obviously isnt the truth as you cannot prove any of your fairly dramatic statements.


I've already explained my reasoning. You don't agree with it, then fine, but Schmidt does throw players under the bus, and he does so to either excuse his selections, or to excuse poor games. That makes him a coward and someone who lacks integrity. I don't doubt it.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by George Carlin on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 6:15 pm

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 6:45 pm

Henshaw: "I didn't know the rules...I'm not a forward".

Schmidt is renowned for his meticulous attention to detail. Robbie Henshaw, your starting 12, doesn't know the rules surrounding the maul? That is pretty embarrassing. It was a clear obstruction regardless of the law changes in the maul.

For those who have the time:

http://www.the42.ie/the42-rugby-show-eddie-osullivan-wales-3285412-Mar2017/

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by captain carrantuohil on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 6:54 pm

No good blaming Schmidt for that one. What the hell was Henshaw doing there anyhow, the more so if he didn't have a clue about the laws concerning a maul? Players have to be trusted to keep a cool head - in that moment, Henshaw failed the test and cost Ireland any realistic chance of changing the course of the match.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Munchkin on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 7:02 pm

I do blame Schmidt. Poor game plan, or lack of options other than kick (poorly). He should have subbed Murray as soon as his shoulder was injured. He should have subbed Sexton much earlier. He should have subbed Toner earlier.
Bowe should never have been on the bench. His inclusion just limited our attacking threat, which was sorely lacking.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by Maine man on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 7:06 pm

McFadden?! Wtf? Just read this and Schmidt has just pi$$ed me off even more. Part of me wants England to thrash Ireland so changes have to be made.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by captain carrantuohil on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 7:07 pm

Agree with those points, Munchkin, but individual brain-farts like Henshaw's are not what a coach can legislate for. Think the call-up of McFadden to be an even more stubborn, provocative, plain wrong decision by Joe than the ones you outline. He's generally been a good strategist and a ho-hum tactician but some of the more fundamental personnel choices are beginning to concern me.

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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

Post by George Carlin on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 7:14 pm

Absolutely crucial whether Murray is fit for Ireland or not. What is the current prognosis?
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Re: Ireland 2016/17 season

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