NZ in India

First topic message reminder :

India has picked the squad and unfortunately promising all rounder Binny has been left out without a fair run...while Rohit gets picked with a promise of extended run.

Today NZ are playing Mumbai and promising swing bowler Balwinder singh Sandhu has picked both of NZ wickets

Just when he was taking the game away from the New Zealanders, the Indian skipper is taken out by Boult for 45. The best Kohli has batted in recent times, but the innings is cut short, and there is more responsibility on Rohit Sharma now. Can the lower order do the saving job yet again? They've been called on to do it time and again in the last year or so.

It is the low bounce that did Kohli in. Go back and think a bit more about DRS can Virat, it was a marginal call that got him,.

110-6......lead is 222.....might be enough....pitch is becoming increasingly difficlt....as many balls are keeping low....and a few jumping off the length

India needs to stretch the lead to 300

half century for Rohit...52 not out.......top scorer in this inning.....from a precarious position taking the team to a comfortable position....on a very difficult pitch....
after averaging 100 in the first test.

Nailed his spot now

Rohit misses a 100 and Jadeja an opportunity to continue to boost his batting average by slogging right from the go

India 340 ahead but must grind NZ for as long as possible......this is a very deep Indian batting line up...with Bhuvi at 10 and Shami at 11.


Saha must go n.o...his average crosses 30....a feat not too many India WKs can boast

Rohit' Sharma's best test innings in nearly 3 years, after his debut tons. They did came against a substandard attack, but came in pressure situations. After that this has been his best innings, the team innings was struggling, the ball was doing things for the NZ quicks, his place under the usual and justified questions, he played a very good innings.
No way I am going to suggest he has turned the corner. Because we have seen it all with Rohit in the past. He did have his fair share of luck going for him, did play more than a few in the air, on another day those could so easiliy have found the fielder. But a good innings nevertheless, keeping the likes of Iyer and Pandey out of the reckoning for now. Rohit should have converted it into a hundred but was done in by Santner. Don't know whether Kohli thinks India have to bowl quickly, first Jadeja and then Bhuvneshwar came out swing. India going to stumps at 227-8.
Rohit did talk about how the remaining batsman would hope to add a few more runs so an overnight declaration might not happen.

Other than Dhoni and Engineer, have we had another wicketkeeper who averaged over 30?

Saha is a bloody good keeper, his batting is iffy, but his keeping is first rate particuarly up to the spinners

msp83 wrote:Other than Dhoni and Engineer, have we had another wicketkeeper who averaged over 30?

i think Budhi kundaran may be 30 or thereabout over a small set of games......he was a contemporary of Engineer and is remembered for his smashing 192 vs England....his opportunities were limited because of Engineer.

Our national history has been quite poor w.r.t. WKs who can bat and seam bowlers....

WKs with average 30+ you can count on finger of one hand....

and seamers with 100+ wickets in tests too barely on fingers of one hand....I say from memory

Ghavri, Kapil, Srinath, Ishant and Zahir.......

Didn't Budhi play some times as a batsman only? And Irfan Pathan has just made it to a hundred test wickets.......

msp83 wrote:Didn't Budhi play some times as a batsman only? And Irfan Pathan has just made it to a hundred test wickets.......

yes I see Pathan has just 100 wickets....won't be surprised if 30 to 40% of his wickets were vs. BD and Zim
he was though bowling allrounder material but lost discipline and more importantly drive...just like his baroda team-mate Munaf who was a a very good pace bowler.

Interestingly, Budhi had a slightly better batting average than Engineer. The former averaged just above 32, Engineer just above 31.
Remember the era before Dhoni, through the 90s to the 2005, Mongya, MSK Prasad, Vijay Dahiya, Sameer Dighe, Parthiv Patel, Dinesh Karthik........ Saba Karim in ODIs, and Dravid too taking the gloves in between. Dreadful times those were! And surprisingly, like Uday Kaul now, another Punjab wicketkeeper who had a mighty fine domestic record with the bat, Pankaj Dharmani was limited to playing a single ODI as a specialist batsman.......

And oh, I forgot Deep Dasgupta who was sometimes called Deep DropGupta

And Ajay Ratra! Oh!

Dasgupta and Parthiv patel were deemed as batting potentials by Ggnguly who identified rightly the need for  and was desperately looking for a batting WK.......and DDG and PP were persevered for their batting abilities which were pretty mediocre..... and muffed two to 3 drops per test....we could have won the historic 2003-04 series in Aus at Sydney which was drawn in the end because  of so many spilt chances by Parthiv.

Pankaj Dharmani was of all these one gem batsman WK.....who somehow didn't make it unfortunately in-spite of being good enough to make it for a few seasons as a pure batsman.

Ditto Chandrakant Pandit who was good enuf to be a pure batsman and played a test in Eng 1986 tour and a few ODIs including the infamous semi-finals of reliance cup in Mumbai vs Eng....as a pure batsman,

and there was a dashing delhi opener WK Surendra Khanna of Delhi who because the Man of series in the first Asia cup in sharjah.....for his batting....

and samir dighe was like Pandit good enuf to be a pure batsman at his peak....but by the time he got his break...he was planning on giving up FC cricket also as his eyes had detrioted.
Same with Saba karim....a very fin batsman WK...who was unfortunate to have injured his eye and lost partial eyesight when he got his belated call.

but none of these guys made it in those times 80s and 90s when if you were too good with the bat it was deemed you were an inferior WK somehow...and also zonal quotas applied.

and a lot of weight was given to in 80s and 90s post kirmani era to the WK being electric with reflexes to spinners especially in stumping.....and that both More and Mongia were....and they kept Pandit and Dighe out respectively at their peak of careers.

Dharmani, Pandit, Karim..all averaging 50+... not playing  tests ......and Dighe and Khanna not playing ODis when at ther peaks  was a big loss to Indian cricket

Those were some times! Haven't followed Pandit or Khanna but indeed followed the others.......
BTW, have you seen Uday Kaul in action with the gloves? His batting record is pretty impressive, wonder why is it that he doesn't get a look in even in the A team or the zonal sides as a wicketkeeper? Samson, Ojha seem to be the preferred ones these days, and then there is Karthik and Parthiv who should not even be considered any more. And Samson doesn't keep in Ranji for Kerala.......

msp83 wrote:Those were some times! Haven't followed Pandit or Khanna but indeed followed the others.......
BTW, have you seen Uday Kaul in action with the gloves? His batting record is pretty impressive, wonder why is it that he doesn't get a look in even in the A team or the zonal sides as a wicketkeeper? Samson, Ojha seem to be the preferred ones these days, and then there is Karthik and Parthiv who should not even be considered any more. And Samson doesn't keep in Ranji for Kerala.......

I haven't seen Uday Kaul in action but I like his profile...80 FC matches and a batting average of 48
WKs must come through the Ranji grind to be fully cooked for 5 day tests and keeping on tough spinning tracks ...that's why Samson won't cut it.

anther WK that the selectors have been keeping in the equation---> Sheldon Jackson 40 FC games, batting average 55 and has had good last 2 seasons......the flip side he plays for Saurashtra who have flattest tracks ...althouhg they have tried to replace these with crumbling turners lately.

and that he is 30 years....his career will run in parallel to first choice Saha.
i think for now selectors have sheldon and Naman as the backups...to saha in tests
in ODis and T20s they may use Rahul as a WK especially in T20s after Dhoni

Latham is playing well and holding one end.....Guptil, Nicholls , tried hard...with their 20 odds....but it's not easy...the pitch , the quality of Indian bowling and the pressure of a mountain of runs....gets a wicket and one wicket brings a cluster of wickets

3 down NZ and 7 to go

in the end they didn't cross 200 inspite of having being 104-1

ind win by 178 runs
Ind rise to No.1
with 11 more home tests to go.

my MoM would be Saha unbeaten with 54 and 58 in each inning....and very good behind the stumps:OK:
and averages 31 after 16 tests...and by the look of things......he is moving towards and will hold on to a 35ish average

A collective bowling performance from India. Ashwin, Jadeja and Shami taking 3 each, and Bhuvneshwar chipped in with 1. They all bowled well. Caught the action in between, Latham played another solid hand, but Taylor failed again, and Guptill yet again made fools of the team management who have been backing him. Rohit Sharma produced the goods in this test with a fine innings and did his job in the 2nd innings of the last test. But Guptill has been absolutely awful. They just have to give up on him now, just isn't worth it, doesn't have the test class. And if they are so keen on him, has to come in as the 6th batsman when they play one. When Williamson returns, think they have to drop Guptill. Open with Nichols perhaps though he's not really an opener and hasn't really convinced me from whatever I watched of him. He did play a good innings in South Africa and tried to put up a fight today, so he has to get the go ahead of Guptill. And think they should swap positions of Santner and Watling. Watling at 6, Santner at 7.

Meanwhile India's bad luck with injuries to openers continues, following KL Rahul's injury after the first test, now it is the turn of Shikhar Dhawan. Having taken a battering fro m Trent Boult while batting, Dhawan then discovered that he has got a minor fracture as a result of the same and would be out of action for a couple of weeks. Anyways his form has been patchy and has been lucky that he got an opportunity here as Rahul was batting very well before his injury.
It will be interesting as to what call the selectors would make. Gambhir would be in prime position to resume his test career now, but whether the selectors name another reserve opener for the 3rd test? If so, who would make the cut? Mukund? Fazal? Herwadkar?

If they are willing to bring in 34 year old mentally shot Gambhir......then Mukund is a much better choice
he looked good in Duleep tropy and is only 26 years of age......he does deserve a 2nd chance......didn't do terribly in his first round

really hope they dont go back to Gambhir..he's well past it, and just simply isn't international standard anymore..

Its not Mukund, its not Fizal, its not even an opening batsman as such. Its Karnataka youngster Karun Nair who is replacing Dhawan in the side. That means Gambhir will open or Kohli will go in for the 5th bowler in and get Pujara to open. Now that he's getting the team's backing, and now that he's back among runs and playing with intent, think Pujara can be asked to do a job. For ones, Rohit Sharma has earned his chance for the next tes, and it is better to leave him at 5 or 6........ I would have Gambhir opening and they going in with 4 bowlers unless its an obnoxious flat track.

i have a feeling they will get Pujara to open as a one-off and play Mishra.
The game is in Indore...and no one knows that the pitch is like

I am really very pleased with the performance of Saha....the man is punching above his weight......values the test match spot he has earned with a very hard grind.....low profile, hard working, solid, shining product of first class grind that is really putting a price on his wicket.....and with every passing game, gaining confidence, that's making his WK-ing also shine.

The Kumble-Kohli duo is giving a good environment to the team

Saha has always been a fighter. Now he's working out his own emethods to get going in international cricket and the support that he's getting from the team management is helping. As we discussed already, there is no outstanding candidate to replace him, and Saha will not give up his position without a fight.
Kumble's stamp is certainly becoming clear on the side. Think his role was so very important in resolving the Pujara/Rohit situation and Kohli acknowledged as much, when he talked about the role of intelligent people in the dressing room.
Kohli can be impetuous and stupid with his selection calls from time to time, but there is a lot good about him as a leader. The way he got the crowd going was terrific and then his words about test cricket were soothing. If Kumble can temper some of Kohli's outlandish and foolhardy tendencies, the team will be greater for that.

yes Kumble has brought about calm, organized , disciplined approach to the team......that was missing during shastri's time.

NZ seemed to have given up and gone down the hill.

to put up some fight they need Williamson back as a leader first of all....and then they should bring in someone else in place of Guptil

BCCI creating drama by talking about uncertainty on the rest of the series due to the Lodha Committee freezing BCCI bank accounts. The Committee clarified that it has stopped only 2 sets of paiments that were not routine.......
Think the series will go on as such.

New Zealand are without a reserve opener in the side. Luke Ronchi had opened in a few domestic games without success earlier, he did have a good innings in the practice game at the top of the order, but has fitted in nicely at 5 and I don't see any need to change that. They should have had someone as a reserve opener in the side. Jeet Raval, who was part of their side in Zimbabwe, chould have been in. Seems he's rated well by many, and his FC record isn't bad at all.

Santner defo looks like a Daniel Vettori with the ball, pretty much do the same thing with the ball..whilst Jeetan Patel once again showed why he is only a force in county cricket....he's done a fantastic job with Warwickshire over the years, but he has never been able to make the step up to international cricket, and i think it's simply because it's a simply a step above his capabilities...a very good county pro though

Patel, to be fair, did look better than either Ish Sodhi or Mark Craig. Ajinkya Rahane is on record saying Patel was the most difficult to face on day one of the test, when the seamers had done most of the damage.

In Santner they have found another Daniel Vettori with the ball and with bat....that's probably agreed by all.

Santner has had a good start to his career for sure and he does seem capable of doing a job with bat and ball. Has to be NZ's first choice spinner in all formats for now. Whether he'll be able to take his game to the Vetori levels, lets reserve judgment for now, he does have some good qualities, but its too early........ Dan the man did carry the attack on his own for quite a while. Mostly throughout his career, he was his sides best bowler whenever Shane Bond wasn't playing. Santner doesn't have to carry that much responsibility upon himself. Boult is world class and Southee is a very good bowler. In Wagner they have one of the best 3rd seamers in the world.......

Bhuvneshwar Kumar ruled out of T3 for some injury...that is not elaborated.

Shardul comes as a replacement into the squad...although it will be either Ishant or Yadav in the playing 11

BCCI's website says back strain.....
i got the feeling Bhuvi was bowling faster than his normal pace....and that may be the cause of his back strain.

In trying to impress the captain / coach......Bhuvi should not overstep his body limits.......
Irfan did that one time in tests vs Aus.....and immediately broke down...took very long to recover

BCCI have one day to accept Supreme Court's recommendation....else their office bearers will be replaced by court appointed panel of administrators.

The corrupt and high handed regime of Srinivasan drove BCCI to the edge throuhg his Machiavellian ways evading / avoiding / Bull-sh-ytting the courts...that the BCCI current office bearers have no wriggle room left.

Accept unconditionally the SC verdict or perish

I'll be the last to feel a sense of identification with the BCCI general positions, but I don't think I am liking this judicial overreach from the SC. They did a pretty solid job of keeping the BCCI in check, now they seem to be overstepping the institutional boundaries....... The BCCI doesn't help itself by creating dramatic situations where none exists, and rather than accepting the court directive and then seeking legitimate redressals, they try to be far too cheeky and thus inviting the rath of the court.

Meanwhile the new selection panel, after the rather retrograde selection of Gautam Gambhir as the reserve test opener, yet again shows unwarranted conservatism in the selection of the ODI side. Ravichandran Ashwin and Ravindra Jadeja are rightfully rested. Jayant Yadav, Amit Mishra and Axar Patel in charge of the spin department. I would have liked to see Kuldeep Yadav in place of Axar Patel in there....... Shami rightly rested, and Bhuvi missing out due to injury. In the batting side, both KL Rahul and Shikhar Dhawan are out injured, and Punjab batsman Mandeep Singh is given an opportunity and is likely to partner Rohit Sharma at the top. But the most disappointing call is to bring back Suresh Raina. Raina did everything to lose his place, and did nothing to earn it back, and yet he's picked, because he can bowl some parttime spin as well. Ridiculous! Young Sreyas Iyer or some other upcoming batsmen would have made much greater sense.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-new-zealand-2016-17/content/story/1060602.html

http://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/north-east-states-reject-bccis-conditional-associate-membership/297253

True BCCI could have accepted all reasonable recommendations...but they continued to be unreasonable, highhanded and arrogant.....demonstrating too big to fail syndrome......and had the cheek to blackmail the court and the country with " we will stop NZ series"

Dhoni might have used his informal veto for one player that a captain can demand to try an manufacture the last opportunity for Raina.

for Dhoni won't last too long and he is trying to give one more chance to Raina to cut it......whihc I am sure Raina won't ....

there is Pandey and Kedhar Jadav that will make it diffclt for Raina to hold on his spot without peforming...


good to see Pandya in.....if he does well in ODIs...then test matches is the next step for him.....and he is a genuine bowling allrounder.....unlike Binny ( primarily a batsman) and Bhuvi ( primarily a bowler)


Playing 11

1) Rohit
2) Mandeep
3) Kohli
4) Rahane
5) Raina ( in the firts two games atleast )
6)Pandya
7) Dhoni
8) Axar
9) Mishra
10) Bumrah
11) Yadav

so you can see with Pandey and Jadhav in the squad...it will be hard for Dhoni to keep Raina for long

It will be even harder for Dhoni not to include Manish Pandey. Think he is the one in possession and has performed as well. no way should he be benched.
Not sure about Rahane though, particularly in the middle order. If Rahane plays, he has to open. Otherwise I don't think he should be in.
Rohit,
Mandeep/Rahane
Kohli
Pandey
Dhoni
Jadhav/Raina
Pandya
Axar
Mishra
Yadav
Bumrah
There will be 5 bowlers. With Mishra in at 9, the lower order can hold a bat. Kohli or Rohit can bowl an over or 2 if needed, and think Mandeep also bowls at times in domestic cricket.

Shame for poor old Bhuvi to be ruled out with injury, whenever he gets some wickets, he always gets injured, feel for the lad

Bhuvi has had a bit too much of rough luck with injuries. As KPF noted, he was generatint on an average greater pace than usual. That made him more effective. In fact from the last IPL onwards, I noticed he's been bowling a little bit quicker on average. Think he has to work out methods to keep himself fit and condition his body to withstand that extra striving. Without that additional yard of pace, he won't be causing too much trouble on flat pitches in Australia and the Indian ODI tracks.

The SC has pulled back from the brink of judicial overreach by not passing an order today and scheduling the matter for the 17th of this month. Think the BCCI now has enough time and not a great deal of excuse not to fall in line. That's better from the judiciary, lets what the BCCI response would be. The Very Important People in the BCCI were betting on the SC not going over the line today, but now that the SC got its act together, there is not a lot of cover left for the BCCI.

India are likely to go in with the 6 batsman 4 bowler combination for the 3rd test as well, meaning Gautam Gambhir is likely to resume his test career. Will be interesting to see who would take the place of Bhuvneshwar Kumar. Ishant isn't fit yet, so it would be either Yadav or Amit Mishra.
Kane Williamson should be back for New Zealand, would be interesting to see who would miss out. Martin Guptill just doesn't deserve to hold on on top of failures after failures, but like in the case of India's Rohit Sharma, (who incidently has actually earned his test place for ones), Guptill is been persisted with, on the basis of his 'potential' and ODI record. Since they don't have a reserve opener in the squad, Henry Nichols might miss out when the skipper returns.

Since we've been discussing wicketkeepers, there is some interesting and encouraging news from Ranji first round. Sanju Samson is keeping wickets for Kerala and started the season with an unbeaten 142. Delhi's Rishabh Pant got going with an unbeaten 83 ball 84. Hope both of them go on to perform consistently with bat and gloves throughout the season and would be ready to make the step up soon.

So Kohli won yet another toss, and India are batting. They are 128-3 at the moment, the second session about to end.
Murali Vijay fell to a freaky catch from Tom Latham of Jeetan Patel who was introduced in the first half hour itself for 10. Then Gautam Gambhir, who batted positively on test comeback, using Henry's pace to hit a couple of 6s early in his innings got out to Trent Boult just before lunch for 29 as he found himself getting LBW not for the first time in his career. Then after lunch, after looking set, Cheteshwar Pujara was done in by an absolute ripper from Mitchell Santner that turned a mile at speed to hit his stumps for 41.
Skipper Virat Kohli and Ajinkya Rahane at the crease. They are being tied down by the New Zealand spinners who are proving hard to score of.

India 148-3 at tea. Kohli on 45, Rahane on 19. They both have had their edgy moments, but they both are there to fight on and that's what is more important for India.

Haven't watched and will catch up in hghlights later

Gambhir won't have too many chances as the 4th opener so he should have made it count

that applies to Pujara also....inspite of starts he hasn't gotten 1 hundred even when he is in good form....a Dravid, Gavsakr, tendulakr would have turned these into a couple of BIG hundreds when they are in good form that...... gives them longer run in their bad days

we are not seeing big hundreds.....admittedly pitches have not been easy.....yet i would have expected atlelast 3 hundred of which one bi 150+ score