PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

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PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 8:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).The PGA Tour season sputters to its conclusion this week, at the Tour Championship, in Atlanta, Georgia, at Donald Ross's East Lake design.  (Don't worry, "16/17" gets things going again in three weeks's time.)

Every golf fan has an opinion of the FedEx Play-Offs, but one thing I'd change permanently is to take the week off between "Boston" and the Beemer, then run straight from whichever city hosts the old Western Open (Philadelphia in two years' time if that makes sense to anyone but Shotrock) to Atlanta; the week off just feels as if all momentum for the thirty finalists, or at least us fans, is lost.

2).But one good thing this year is that the Tour has switched nines at East Lake; the purists were apparently not happy that the 18th hole is no longer the difficult par-3, demanding but hardly exciting, but now a Par-5 that's reachable after a super drive. Hopefully some risk/reward is included with the change.
East Lake has few enough memorable holes after all, but one is the old 6th which is played over water with a mid to long iron. Now it's the 15th and may play a more prominent part in the tournament's outcome.

3).Atlanta will be Warmlanta this week, if not exactly Hotlanta; there's no sustained "weather" in the forecast, chance of occasional shower but no strong winds, so scoring should be good.

4).And Davis LoveIII has had us all on the edge of our seats for a couple of weeks now as we all wonder who'll get his Horschel pick. Apparently Bubba and Berger, Furyk and Thomas have been with some of the USA Team at Hazeltine, a wasted trip for at least two of them but it lends credence to the idea that LoveIII is looking for an excuse to choose a Young Gun, but will fall back with Watson if both misfire.

5).Meanwhile Andrew Johnston may be targetting next year's Tour Championship as he maps out his schedule for next season, Tour card in hand. Well done to him, and interesting that the Boise Tournament Director gave a shout out to Beef as an attraction that led to record crowds.
I'm not sure that the land of Donald Drumpf and brewski thruskis is a perfect fit for Mr.Beef. Strange that he should have snapped up an endorsement for Arby's when surely Montreal's iconic Joe Beef, described as "emboldening gluttony", would have been a better match. Oh well, can't have everything.
We discussed Beef's options in last week's thread, but he's committed to the Dunhill in Scotland the week following the Ryder Cup and that clashes with the web.com Tour Championship, the fourth and final wTF event. And that means this week's wTF Round 3 is crucial to him reaching the higher echelons of the "reshuffle" priority list in getting in to 16/17 tournaments.

6).Michael Thompson, Stallings and Carballo joined Beef in earning their cards last week, while Gonzo is only about $4K from joining them. What a sweet return to the big time that would be for Mr and Mrs G.

7).The Top 25 money winners in these "finals", who are not already exempt via the web.com season-long money-list, qualify for a 16/17 Tour card and Europeans in promising position after two tournaments include:
8th: Gonzo
17th: Norlander
18th: Owen

8).It was a terrific week for another Englishman, the rather more muted, but no less ecstatic Paul Broadhurst who birdied the 18th to win the Champions Tour event at Pebble Beach, and that win puts him in a strong position for the lucrative quasi-Play-Off season finale Charles Schwab series which begins in late October.  

9).Plenty of Europeans have fattened their pension plans courtesy of the ten-year-old FedEx bonus pool.Excluding this year's hand-outs, the big winners (unofficially) have been:
$13.3M: Stenson
$5.5M:  McIlroy
$5.3M:  Donald
$3.8M:  Rose
$3.7M:  Garcia
$1.4M:  Harrington
$1.4M:  Casey
$1.1M:  Pettersson
Whilst others can look forward to at least $750K: Poulter, Laird, Jacobson, Davis, Westwood.

10).No strong feelings here as to who will ride off with the Tour Championship and/or the FedEx Cup and its $10M swag. But very interested to see if the switching of the "nines" adds some spice to the finale and obviously hoping that McIlroy flies to Hazeltine with another win under his belt, and Ray Charles's old sweet song can keep Georgia on his mind..


Last edited by kwinigolfer on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 12:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 2:53 pm

robopz wrote:I'm in a tough spot for this Ryder Cup.  Individually I'll be rooting rah-rah USA in most all the individual matches... But the thought of Team USA winning, and in effect validateing Phil after what he did to Tom Watson last time, not to mention his "I'm the one in charge here...Me, Me, Me" attitude is revolting to me.

I liked Phil when he first came out. Began to dislike him in his FIGJAM days, started to like him again when he seemed to have an epiphany, but over the last 2 years have come to dislike him more than ever.  His scolding the PGA Tour for not setting up East Lake as nothing more than his personal RC prep, and then criticizing the lateness of the final captain's pick (when it was HIMSELF who wanted it in the first place) are just the latest illustrations of whatta dic that guy is... IMHO of course.

Robo: What is the "definition of insanity" cliche?

Albert Einstein wrote:Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Did you see the Golf Channel interview with Ken Schofield last night. Schofield told the story of how Tony Jacklin became the Captain of the 1983 Ryder Cup. Peter Alliss was in line to be the Captain of that team, keeping the tradition of the "Old Guard" as Captains of the GBI/Europe Ryder Cup Team. It wasn't the players that selected the Captain of the team, it was essentially committee of the "wheels" of EuroTour (or the GB&I PGA). It was essentially a "Lifetime Achievement" Captain Appointment.

The Players wanted someone that was more current, someone more connected with their generation. And there was a lot bickering between the constituents. Bernhard Langer, the leading player of the EuroTour in 1983, sided with the players. That prompted Schofield to ask Jacklin to Captain the team (in May, 1983 BTW). Jacklin accepted on the condition that the Team gets First Class treatment.

Anecdotally, the EuroTour Players getting ownership in the Ryder Cup may have been the springboard to their success in the last 30 years.

IMO, there are parallels to the "Phil's revolution" to the 1983 Euro RC Ryder Cup team. Could Mickelson have been more diplomatic? No question about it. But what would have been the impact had Mickelson done his thing more subliminally?

I cringed at that 2014 Post RC press Conference. Watson is one of my favorite players and I didn't like him being thrown under the proverbial bus so publicly. With the old fogies at the PGAofA, I don't think much would have changed had not someone spoken up at the 2014 Post RC Presser. The main thing that Mickelson wanted was player ownership in the process and apparently he had a lot of support from the players as they seemed to back him. (Woods & Furyk)

Will the TF be a failure if US team loses this week? Not necessarily because that is "results orientated" thinking. The 1983 Euro RC team lost and I don't think that "mutiny" was a mistake.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 2:57 pm

No doubt the US is on the right track with the new "system". Still it's fun to make fun of..

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 3:59 pm

GPB... I agree there may potential benefits to getting the "ownership" of the USA Team into the players hands. In fact I think it'll pay dividends sooner or later (I'm just not that optimistic it will this year)

But my objection with Phil is... REAL leadership is finding a way to effect change without being such a total whining dic about it... for instance:  

• Phil whines at Watson about everything...

• Phil whines at the PGA Tour for not setting up East Lake as his personal RC prep

• Phil whines at the lateness of the last pick (which was a decision made in HIS task force)

• Phil whines at what a "great captain" Sutton was, but how Sutton was entirely at fault for his poor play with Tiger in 2004... like Phil switching clubs that week had nothing to do with it. Gimme a freeking break... (https://twitter.com/JasonSobelESPN/status/781135838017036289)

My only question... if USA loses the Ryder Cup and/or Phil plays poorly... who's he gonna throw under the bus THIS time... cuz we know it surely won't be HIS fault....

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 4:34 pm

Robo: Wow. So much hyperbole. and hypocrisy

So I guess players should be like little children. Seen and not heard?

I said that Phil might have been more diplomatic but if he had been more diplomatic, would anyone have listened?





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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 4:51 pm

I followed some matches at MV in 1987 w/Tommy Horton who was one of Jacklin's men on the ground, before it was fashionable to have VC's everywhere. He reckoned his role was perfect, respected by all the Euro Team, but none of the Americans knew who the hell he was. Quite. (And he's the only one I knew, perhaps others also.)
The US might very well win this, but it won't be because of all the different voices shouting in DLIII's ear because they want it to be known they have an opinion. But it seems the Task Force system encourages it.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 4:54 pm

GPB wrote:Robo:  Wow.  So much hyperbole.  and hypocrisy

So I guess players should be like little children.  Seen and not heard?

I said that Phil might have been more diplomatic but if he had been more diplomatic, would anyone have listened?

He's not saying that you have to be quiet GPB, just that you don't have to act like a petulant child, which is how Mickelson, who is usually classy, acted to his shame and detriment.
There are ways and means of getting your point across and make it heard, but acting like he did is not how to do it.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 5:06 pm

super_realist wrote:
GPB wrote:Robo:  Wow.  So much hyperbole.  and hypocrisy

So I guess players should be like little children.  Seen and not heard?

I said that Phil might have been more diplomatic but if he had been more diplomatic, would anyone have listened?

He's not saying that you have to be quiet GPB, just that you don't have to act like a petulant child, which is how Mickelson, who is usually classy, acted to his shame and detriment.
There are ways and means of getting your point across and make it heard, but acting like he did is not how to do it.

Have you considered that Mickelson might have tried more diplomatic means and without success. The PGAofAmerica is a good ole boys club of old Fogeys who are holding onto the Ryder Cup with a death grip. I can see them not being receptive to change. My old Golf pro's brother is a high ranking PGAofA official. And he is one of the most sanctimonious and pompous b@st@rds I have met in the game of golf.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 5:15 pm

super_realist wrote:He's not saying that you have to be quiet GPB, just that you don't have to act like a petulant child, which is how Mickelson, who is usually classy, acted to his shame and detriment.
There are ways and means of getting your point across and make it heard, but acting like he did is not how to do it.
Bingo!!!

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 5:27 pm

GPB wrote:
super_realist wrote:
GPB wrote:Robo:  Wow.  So much hyperbole.  and hypocrisy

So I guess players should be like little children.  Seen and not heard?

I said that Phil might have been more diplomatic but if he had been more diplomatic, would anyone have listened?

He's not saying that you have to be quiet GPB, just that you don't have to act like a petulant child, which is how Mickelson, who is usually classy, acted to his shame and detriment.
There are ways and means of getting your point across and make it heard, but acting like he did is not how to do it.

Have you considered that Mickelson might have tried more diplomatic means and without success.   The PGAofAmerica is a good ole boys club of old Fogeys who are holding onto the Ryder Cup with a death grip.  I can see them not being receptive to change.  My old Golf pro's brother is a high ranking PGAofA official.  And he is one of the most sanctimonious and pompous b@st@rds I have met in the game of golf.

And you think that the R&A and those in charge of the European Tour are not a bunch of sanctimonious and pompous bastards? Come one GPB, just admit it. Mickelson was out of order.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 7:00 pm

Tweeter Alliss @TweeterAlliss
That's Watson I ran over in 2014, just steamrolled Hal Sutton, who is next to fall under my Bus? #BusDriverPhil #rydercup

https://twitter.com/TweeterAlliss/status/781190152165220353


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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 7:04 pm

super_realist wrote:
GPB wrote:
super_realist wrote:
GPB wrote:Robo:  Wow.  So much hyperbole.  and hypocrisy

So I guess players should be like little children.  Seen and not heard?

I said that Phil might have been more diplomatic but if he had been more diplomatic, would anyone have listened?

He's not saying that you have to be quiet GPB, just that you don't have to act like a petulant child, which is how Mickelson, who is usually classy, acted to his shame and detriment.
There are ways and means of getting your point across and make it heard, but acting like he did is not how to do it.

Have you considered that Mickelson might have tried more diplomatic means and without success.   The PGAofAmerica is a good ole boys club of old Fogeys who are holding onto the Ryder Cup with a death grip.  I can see them not being receptive to change.  My old Golf pro's brother is a high ranking PGAofA official.  And he is one of the most sanctimonious and pompous b@st@rds I have met in the game of golf.

And you think that the R&A and those in charge of the European Tour are not a bunch of sanctimonious and pompous bastards? Come one GPB, just admit it. Mickelson was out of order.

Wow, the Strawman Argument!!!

BTW, I think I already alluded to that in my earlier post when I discussed what happened in the 1983 Euro RC team.

I am saying that we don't know the rest of the story. All we have seen is what Mickelson did at the end of the 2014 RC. We don't know everything that led up to the "mutiny". Mickelson might have been frustrated because the PGAofA was not listening to the players. And IMO, there are perfectly good reasons why Mickelson did what he did.

The fact that most of the American Team did not speak out against Phil Mickelson tells me that my hypothesis is plausible.

Heaven forbid a player actually express his opinion.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 7:09 pm

It's not a strawman at all, you insinuate that the PGA are to blame, when every governing body of every sport is both fuddy and duddy.

I'm fine with a player expressing opinion, most players in sports are boring as paint drying, but Mickelson ought to have acted like an adult and not a kid who's had his lolly taken away.  Go mad behind doors if you like, but in public you just look like a spoilt brat.

He might have had good reasons, but he acts like a t1t.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 7:18 pm

What happened with the 1983 Euro RC Team? If anything, that was the year it all came together for Europe, down to the last match and a brilliant wedge by Lanny W to clinch it - different directions since then, thanks largely to Tony Jacklin and his legacy.

If Phil doesn't think much of US Ryder Cup stewardship, why the hell doesn't he step aside and give someone else a go who actually wants to play?

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 7:38 pm

Kwini, See post at the top of the page 4 of 4. Post #150 (I think). The Ken Schofield story.

(Why aren't posts number on the page anyways?).

Super, I acknowledge that the R/A, USGA, and other personnel in the governing bodies are both FUDDY & DUDDY.

But apparently you cannot (or will not) comprehend the possibility that Mickelson's outburst at the post RC presser could have been his last resort. The PGAofA were just not listening to him or the other players. and his mutiny was one of frustration.

FTR, I don't know that this happen but IMO, it is very possible. No one knows the rest of the story.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 8:14 pm

Sorry GPB, I missed your comments in the middle of the rest of 'em!
Yup, pretty much knew that story, Thanks.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 8:22 pm

GPB wrote:Kwini, See post at the top of the page 4 of 4.  Post #150 (I think).  The Ken Schofield story.

(Why aren't posts number on the page anyways?).

Super, I acknowledge that the R/A, USGA, and other personnel in the governing bodies are both FUDDY & DUDDY.  

But apparently you cannot (or will not) comprehend the possibility that Mickelson's outburst at the post RC presser could have been his last resort.  The PGAofA were just not listening to him or the other players.  and his mutiny was one of frustration.

FTR, I don't know that this happen but IMO, it is very possible.  No one knows the rest of the story.

It might well have been the last resort as you say, but it didn't take a petulant child to turn Europe around from being a disparate bunch of no hopers into regular RC winners.

Phil might have a point, but he doesn't need to behave like a baby or a greenpeace activist. It's the manner of how he put it across, not what he said.

On the other hand, if Phil had a good, or even average RC record, I might excuse him this, but he doesn't even acknowledge his own massive contribution to America's repeated failure by virtue of the lack of points he's won. He's as much to blame as anyone else because for every game he's played he ships points to the opposition. It's like blaming the penalty spot when you miss the goal. His fault he's done so badly, not the PGA, not Captain's, HIM

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 8:48 pm

sheeesh....More hyperbole. and pretty RICH considering how bent you get when someone names their kid a non traditional name or happens to thank a diety.



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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 9:59 pm

GPB wrote:But apparently you cannot (or will not) comprehend the possibility that Mickelson's outburst at the post RC presser could have been his last resort.  The PGAofA were just not listening to him or the other players.  and his mutiny was one of frustration.

FTR, I don't know that this happen but IMO, it is very possible.  No one knows the rest of the story.
Huh? Oh... well that makes it entirely OK then... "So the PGA of A won't listen to me... waaah.... waaah... waaah.... So I'll show them by making my point in the most dic-ish and classless way possible."



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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 10:19 pm

robopz wrote:
GPB wrote:But apparently you cannot (or will not) comprehend the possibility that Mickelson's outburst at the post RC presser could have been his last resort.  The PGAofA were just not listening to him or the other players.  and his mutiny was one of frustration.

FTR, I don't know that this happen but IMO, it is very possible.  No one knows the rest of the story.
Huh?  Oh... well that makes it entirely OK then...  "So the PGA of A won't listen to me... waaah.... waaah... waaah.... So I'll show them by making my point in the most dic-ish and classless way  possible."

I can't think of more dic-ish and classless ways.  **cough**

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 10:35 pm

GPB wrote:
robopz wrote:
GPB wrote:But apparently you cannot (or will not) comprehend the possibility that Mickelson's outburst at the post RC presser could have been his last resort.  The PGAofA were just not listening to him or the other players.  and his mutiny was one of frustration.

FTR, I don't know that this happen but IMO, it is very possible.  No one knows the rest of the story.
Huh?  Oh... well that makes it entirely OK then...  "So the PGA of A won't listen to me... waaah.... waaah... waaah.... So I'll show them by making my point in the most dic-ish and classless way  possible."

I can't think of more dic-ish and classless ways.  **cough**
you're right... Phil could have dropped his drawers and mooned Watson... but he was to classy for that... So he just publicly eviscerated and humiliated Tom instead...

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by I'm never wrong on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 10:37 pm

Danny Willets brother not being too clever Click Here

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 11:11 pm

Is it super?

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 11:15 pm

Robo: Just wondering, Did you actually read my first post on the Phil Topic.?

Or did you just read the author like you sometimes do?

Please go back and read it at the top of the page. In particular the paragraph that starts with "IMO". I said Phil could have been more diplomatic.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 1:14 am

GPB wrote:Robo:  Just wondering, Did you actually read my first post on the Phil Topic.?

Or did you just read the author like you sometimes do?

Please go back and read it at the top of the page.  In particular the paragraph that starts with "IMO".  I said Phil could have been more diplomatic.  
yes I read it, but he wasn't more diplomatic now was he?  I don't object to Phil being a voice for change...  What i object to is the way Phil went about purposely eviscerating Watson when there were 1000's of other ways he could have made the case for change and IMO every bit as effectively. It was totally classless then just as it was totally classless today when he gave Sutton the same treatment.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 2:13 am

1000's of other ways. More hyperbole. SIGH

What I am trying to say that he might have already gone the diplomatic route, and didn't get any satisfaction from the Old Guard at the PGAofA.

The PGAofA powers that be might not have listened to him. Its Phil being Phil. Throwing Watson under the Bus might have been his last resort. To say it a public forum. It might have been the only way to evoke change. IMO, we don't have Paul Harvey's Rest of the Story.

And again, I don't remember reading much criticism from the other US players or even the vice-Captains at the 2014 Ryder Cup. That tells me there is a lot that we don't know.

BTW, I have been blogging with you on a nearly a daily basis for the last 730 days. Now, suddenly, you start ripping on P-Mick. I don't remember this rhetoric from you in Oct-2014. Of course the blogs have been deleted so it can't be cited one way or another.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 7:59 am

GPB wrote:1000's of other ways.  More hyperbole.  SIGH

What I am trying to say that he might have already gone the diplomatic route,  and didn't get any satisfaction from the Old Guard at the PGAofA.

The PGAofA powers that be might not have listened to him.  Its Phil being Phil.  Throwing Watson under the Bus might have been his last resort.  To say it a public forum.  It might have been the only way to evoke change.  IMO, we don't have Paul Harvey's Rest of the Story.

And again, I don't remember reading much criticism from the other US players or even the vice-Captains at the 2014 Ryder Cup.  That tells me there is a lot that we don't know.

BTW, I have been blogging with you on a nearly a daily basis for the last 730 days.  Now, suddenly, you start ripping on P-Mick.  I don't remember this rhetoric from you in Oct-2014.  Of course the blogs have been deleted so it can't be cited one way or another.

How could he have tried 1000's of other options in the half hour between losing the Ryder Cup and appearing in the post match conference?
If the USA had won, do you think he would have had anything to complain about?

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 8:00 am

I'm never wrong wrote:Danny Willets brother not being too clever Click Here

Seems like a good summation of American golf fans. Shame on Danny because he's going to cop it by the exact same type of person his brother has highlighted, proving the point.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 8:37 am

super_realist wrote:
I'm never wrong wrote:Danny Willets brother not being too clever Click Here

Seems like a good summation of American golf fans. Shame on Danny because he's going to cop it by the exact same type of person his brother has highlighted, proving the point.
Bad timing nevertheless. Must be a distraction for Danny.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 8:38 am

robo/gbp

Are you talking about phils comments about Hal Sutton and the 2004 RC? Got to say it is pretty odd for phil to dredge that up.


Super

The article by Willett's brother is a lot more imbecilic than your average baba boey shouter.
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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 8:52 am

Ironically, PJ Willetts comments on American golf fans are probably more likely to fire up their players than the absurdly stupid "task force" is. Own goal.

Mac, PJ Willet isn't saying any of those things whilst golf is in play.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 12:06 pm

GPB wrote:BTW, I have been blogging with you on a nearly a daily basis for the last 730 days.  Now, suddenly, you start ripping on P-Mick.  I don't remember this rhetoric from you in Oct-2014.  Of course the blogs have been deleted so it can't be cited one way or another.
Then you weren't paying attention in 2014.... remember the cartoon below I cobbled up and posted?   It was apropos to Phil and Watson then as it is to Phil and Sutton today...

Bottom line is this... As you alluded to... I really came to like Phil when I felt he'd pretty much morphed away from his FIGJAM persona starting in the later part of the last decade, and defended him against what I considered were unwarranted attacks.  But I was VERY vocal and critical about him ambushing Watson in 2014.  But I didn't remain fixated on it for the last two years because I have no overall burn against Phil and overall I'm WAY more of a fan of his than a critic.  

Now if you want to conjure up and keep repeating some evidenceless "last resort" fairy tale that justifies Phil being a dic in the way he handled the Watson deal then be my guest.  But sorry, I ain't buying. Either that it was his last resort or his behavior that day was justified even if it was.

And now...  him acting as much of if not even more the pompous arse the last month or so, I'm criticizing him again, because IMO he deserves it again.  That's the way I roll... I call 'em as I see 'em.  When praise is warranted, I praise... but when criticism is warranted, I criticize. And right now... Phil deserves the criticism he's getting from so many directions... NOT just mine. 

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 12:52 pm

Anyone want to start a RC thread?

I'll write some notes but this has been an unusual week and they'll be late.

Maybe even change the title of sirbenson's European Tour thread?? Could post match-ups there also.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 12:56 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Anyone want to start a RC thread?

I'll write some notes but this has been an unusual week and they'll be late.

Maybe even change the title of sirbenson's European Tour thread?? Could post match-ups there also.
please start a new thread. Problem with adding on to existing threads with high page counts is they're harder to navigate on mobile

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 1:33 pm

pedro wrote:http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/heated-debate-chamblee-duval-leadership-vs-execution

This is good
Duval: "Well having actually been out there and done it, there's more to it than just what the stats say."

Chamblee: "You think that actually having to be out there to do it, determines whether or not you can pass judgement on it or not? I wasn't at the Boston Tea Party but I can tell you all about it."
Typical Chamblee. An A-rated A-hole.
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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 1:35 pm

Navy - Obviously, works hard and gets the ratings the GC needs, but I find him to be as you describe! Not my cup of tea.


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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 2:09 pm

Robo:

I have been reading the post 2014 RC Presser.

http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=103079

For your convenience I have cut/pasted questions Phil answered.

Spoiler:
Q. Anyone that was on the team at Valhalla, can you put your finger on what worked in 2008 and what hasn't worked since?
PHIL MICKELSON: There were two things that allow us to play our best I think that Paul Azinger did, and one was he got everybody invested in the process. He got everybody invested in who they were going to play with, who the picks were going to be, who was going to be in their pod, who -- when they would play, and they had a great leader for each pod. In my case, we had Ray Floyd, and we hung out together and we were all invested in each other's play. We were invested in picking Hunter that week; Anthony Kim and myself and Justin were in a pod, and we were involved on having Hunter be our guy to fill our pod. So we were invested in the process. And the other thing that Paul did really well was he had a great game plan for us, you know, how we were going to go about doing this. How we were going to go about playing together; golf ball, format, what we were going to do, if so-and-so is playing well, if so-and-so is not playing well, we had a real game plan. Those two things helped us bring out our best golf. And I think that, you know, we all do the best that we can and we're all trying our hardest, and I'm just looking back at what gave us the most success. Because we use that same process in The Presidents Cup and we do really well. Unfortunately, we have strayed from a winning formula in 2008 for the last three Ryder Cups, and we need to consider maybe getting back to that formula that helped us play our best.

Q. That felt like a pretty brutal destruction of the leadership that's gone on this week.
PHIL MICKELSON: Oh, I'm sorry you're taking it that way. I'm just talking about what Paul Azinger did to help us play our best. It's certainly -- I don't understand why you would take it that way. You asked me what I thought we should do going toward to bring our best golf out and I go back to when we played our best golf and try to replicate that formula.

Q. That didn't happen this week?
PHIL MICKELSON: Uh (pausing) no. No, nobody here was in any decision. So, no.

Q. Another one for you. You've been a rookie, broken in a lot of rookies and the play of these three rookies; is this an indication that experience is overrated, or are they just unique in being able to handle the situation?
PHIL MICKELSON: They are awesome. They are awesome.

ZACH JOHNSON: (Nodding in agreement).

PHIL MICKELSON: In my 20 years of playing these team events, this is one of the best group of 12 players, quality golfers, quality people, and it's really been a pleasure to be with them and be a part of this team with them. The youthful energy that Jordan Spieth brought this week, that Patrick Reed brought, they are the ones that kept us in it. Now, I'm not a mathematician; had they given us eight and a half points, we would have won The Ryder Cup. But the 3 1/2 points they did give us was exceptional, and they kept us in it and they are just brilliant players.

Q. Can you tell us what you think of what Phil said about Paul Azinger?
TOM WATSON: I had a different philosophy as far as being a captain of this team. You know, it takes 12 players to win. It's not pods. It's 12 players. And I felt -- I based my decisions on -- yes, I did talk to the players, but my vice captains were very instrumental in making decisions as to whom to pair with. I had a different philosophy than Paul. I decided not to go that way. But I did have most of them play in the practise rounds together who played most of the time in the matches. I think that was the proper thing to do. Yes, I did mix-and-match a little bit from there, but again, you have to go with the evolution of the playing of the match and see who is playing the best and who to play with whom, and that's what I did.

Q. Do you think that Phil was being disloyal, because it sounded like that?
TOM WATSON: Not at all. He has a difference of opinion. That's okay. My management philosophy is different than his.

Q. You seem to know the strategy for winning The Ryder Cup. Are you willing to be --
PHIL MICKELSON: Oh, no, no -- I've been on eight losing teams -- no (laughter). I'm only reflecting on the one time in the last 15 years that we've won and what allowed us to do that, make no mistake.

Q. So does that mean you're not willing to do it in the future?
PHIL MICKELSON: Oh, that's way off in the future. Look, I intend to keep making this team as a player, and I intend to do my best to get on the Hazeltine team; again, for 20 years, not requiring a pick, I'm going to make that team on my own and I'm going to play my heart out to win only my third Ryder Cup victory (chuckling) to make my record an astounding 18 per cent or whatever (laughter). Again, I'm not a mathematician, I don't know. Win or lose, these are some of the best and most memorable weeks of my career. Yeah, it sucks losing, but the experience of spending time with these guys and spending time here in Scotland and the emotions that this event brings out in us, I cherish those forever.

…..

Q. You talk about the template there. Just curious to know, did you speak in advance with Tom about that, your preference for that template? Was this a conversation that you had in advance of coming over?
PHIL MICKELSON: What template are you talking about?

Q. Getting people involved, the pod system, and getting people involved in the process.
PHIL MICKELSON: No.

….

Q. You've listened to the back and forth between Phil and Tom, and as the other veteran, I was curious for your opinion.
JIM FURYK: Gee, thanks (laughter). Just sitting over here minding my own business (laughter).

PHIL MICKELSON: I don't think the premise of your question is very well stated. I don't think that this has been back and forth.

JIM FURYK: I think that I have a lot of respect for both gentlemen. I've known Phil my entire life. Since I was 16, I've competed against him. He's one of my dearest friends on the PGA TOUR. And I have a lot of respect for our captain. I know he put his heart and soul in it for two years. He worked his ass off to try to provide what he thought would be the best opportunity for us. I don't think it's wise for either one of us to be pitted in the middle of that. I respect both of those gentlemen. I would suggest that you direct the questions that way rather than to put one -- I know what we are all trying to do. We all come here and we are trying to win a Ryder Cup together, trying to pull together as 12, as one unit. We've fallen short quite a bit, and it's -- you know, five of you have already asked me tonight what's the winning formula and what's the difference year-in, year-out. If I could put my finger on it, I would have changed this Poopie a long time ago but we haven't and we are going to keep searching.



Q. If I could ask Keegan and Phil, you guys, based on -- you know how well they fed off each other in 2012, how much did it hurt to sit out, particularly the foursomes, but for the entire day yesterday, and how do you feel about that situation?
PHIL MICKELSON: Go ahead, Keegan, I've probably said enough (laughter).
KEEGAN BRADLEY: The big excitement for me coming into Ryder Cup was playing with Phil. We talked about it months and months beforehand. We were bummed. It was a bummer. We want to go help the team, but the captain has to really -- he put out great players. It's not like you call up my uncles to come play (laughter), you get the best players in the world to back you up. But it was tough, it really was. I wanted to be out there with Phil. Probably my best golf memories are alongside my partner, Phil, in these team competitions, whether it's here or The Presidents Cup. So not going out and playing was tough, but you know, we went out and we wanted to root on the team and we wanted them to win.

Q. The Scottish golfing public have a great affinity with you, having won obviously the Scottish Open and the Open at Muirfield last year. What was it like today going around with Stephen? Give us your thoughts on how he handled his first Ryder Cup experience in singles.
PHIL MICKELSON: I've had a chance to get to know Stephen for awhile now and he's just a class act. He's just a quality guy. What I was really pleasantly surprised with was even though I knew there was going to be a huge home bias from the Scottish crowd, the people here were terrific. They just were very courteous, respectful of everybody. Obviously they were more boisterous in their applause for Stephen, that's great. But I was really pleasantly surprised with how well and with how much respect they treated myself, as well, also.

Sorry, I don't see "evisceration", "humiliation", "ambushing".

I do see Phil answering the questions asked, and giving credit to Azinger and his system


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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 2:25 pm

What is truly priceless is Mahan's reaction
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2014/sep/29/phil-mickelson-us-ryder-cup-captain-tom-watson-video

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 2:50 pm

In that video, Mickelson is focusing on what Azinger did right, and NOT what Watson did wrong.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 2:57 pm

America have been saying that sort of stuff all the time.

"This time we're more of a team"

"This time we have a strategy"

It's getting tiring.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 3:00 pm

super_realist wrote:America have been saying that sort of stuff all the time.

"This time we're more of a team"

"This time we have a strategy"

It's getting tiring.

I wonder what golf forums would be like if posters could not repeat the same sort of stuff all the time.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by MontysMerkin on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 3:22 pm

You 9chin lickspittle
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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by 1GrumpyGolfer on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 3:27 pm

Reported by the BBC Sport website http://www.bbc.com/sport/live/37157479

Ryder Cup veteran Phil Mickelson apologises to former captain Hal Sutton for criticism of his leadership in 2004. The five-time major winner was critical when asked about the importance of captains, using the example of Sutton's decision to pair him with Tiger Woods on the opening day at Oakland Hills when they lost both matches and never played together again.

Phil Mickelson said not wrote:I was totally in the wrong. I never should have brought that up. I used an extreme example the way decisions can affect play and I never should have done that because it affected Hal.

EDIT: Scooped by Robo on the Real Ryder Cup thread

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Sat 01 Oct 2016, 9:04 pm

Rory got a fan kicked out. Apparently he asked security to eject a guy that shouted "suck a d**k Rory" in his face coming off the 8th.

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Re: PGA Tour: Georgia On My Mind: Notes from the Ballwasher

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