For those still struggling: Cudd-Cubbygate

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 8:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Evidently some are still struggling over some blatant facts, so this if for you. So far all my attempts to teach them have been in vain.

I'll start by saying that I am in no way stating that Nic Cudd should get called up this season, as we're very blessed with open-side flankers in Wales, even at the Dregs.

So long story short, I've long been an advocator of Cudd and in recent seasons have stated that he deserves more recognition for playing consistently well over a longer period than some others. Last season and the season before he was particularly good and back then I believed he was overdue a call-up when we had front line 7's missing a fair bit of rugby that season through injury. The argument from the detractors was that he's "too small" - something I disagree with but something I can accept. What puzzled me was that some of these detractors are big advocates of James Cubby Davies - and whilst I agree he's a good player he is very overhyped. I pointed out that seeing as they're around the same size that this was a daft and incorrect argument and have long stood by that - I've also stated that if you spectate then it should be blatantly obvious that they're around the same size - but apparently some folk are either dull or blind (or both). Now then, when I actually looked it up it turned out that Cudd was packing more muscle mass. Of course this blatant fact keeps passing some folk by, well that's turks for you. Let's take a look:

The following source has Cubby at 1.87m and 93kg: http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/teams/first-team-Players.php?PlayId=98390 - so that would put him on a level with his older and well-documented bigger brother. The only other source matching this info is Wikipedia which should tell you all that you need to know about turk info.
More reliable sources: http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/squads_wales_sevens.php?player=115882&includeref=dynamic - has him at 1.83m and 94kg whilst: http://en.espn.co.uk/wales/rugby/player/205129.html has him down as the same. 6'2 is quite a significant jump from 1.83m and if you aren't blind then you can see Cubby is not 6'2.

The following has Cudd at 1.80/5'11 and 96kg: http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/Teams/Player/Dragons/137882/nic-cudd/ - so by just one source so far it appears that Cudd is not smaller.
The following has Cudd at 1.78m and 95kg: http://en.espn.co.uk/wales/rugby/player/122786.html
Even the turk's own source has Cudd at 95 kg: http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/games/player_archive.php?player=94613&includeref=dynamic

A consistency can be found here, and that consistency is that Cudd is not smaller than Cubby - he carries more muscle mass at every single source compared to every available source for Cubby. The height thing is probably about right for Cudd, but it's clearly exaggerated at the Scarlets source for Cubby. From what we can gather Cudd is between 5'10-11 (which is what I could gather through watching rugby) and heavier than Cubby - now bear in mind we were told that Cubby was also the heavier player. We were never ever told at any point that Cubby is a better fit through being taller, which would be just as daft if not more daft than the former argument these people have put forward. From spectating I would never have Cubby down as over 6'0, certainly not 6'2 which makes him taller than his much bigger brother. Again, every single source for Cudd compared with Cubby has Cudd as the one who is bigger, IE muscle mass - when I was even told that Cudd was lighter. Bonkers.
So there we have it - it appears I was correct in saying that the 'fans' proposing Cudd is too small for international rugby and simultaneously saying that Cubby is the best 7 in Wales despite being actually being the lighter of the two are full of it. It's nice to be able to teach people but I doubt this will be taken on board (again). It's a shame they could not argue that they believed Cubby to be in better form - they had to resort to making things up like Cudd was too small yet Cubby wasn't.

Regarding 7's in Wales - this is how I now see the pecking order and some of which I've rated a lot better than Cubby for a couple seasons now:
Ellis Jenkins,
Josh Navidi,
Sam Warburton,
Justin Tipuric,
James Davies,
Nic Cudd/Ollie Griffiths.


Last edited by mikey_dragon on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)

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Post by munkian on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 2:50 pm

laughing
munkian
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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 3:04 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Thanks Griff, I had difficulty in looking for his Olympic profile, although that doesn't seem like the official site (I'll add that I'm having difficulty loading the page in work and only half of it comes up) - I was searching 'Olympics' rather than Rio. The weight seems to be wholly inconsistent with all other sources. The height is consistent across the board, it's only the one-eyed Turk site that disagrees. I have to disagree, I've seen both live and Cudd looks very stocky with broader shoulders (or might just look that way as he is a little shorter than most others on the field). It certainly looks as if he carries more muscle around his legs though.

Helping tidy up at the end of nursery isn't classed as work Mikey.

1 out of 10 for this one. Very poor.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:39 am

[quote="mikey_dragon"]
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:[[doesn't seem like the official site (I'll add that I'm having difficulty loading the page in work and only half of it comes up) - I was searching 'Olympics' rather than Rio. The weight seems to be wholly inconsistent with all other sources. The height is consistent across the board, it's only the one-eyed Turk site that disagrees. I have to disagree, I've seen both live and Cudd looks very stocky with broader shoulders (or might just look that way as he is a little shorter than most others on the field). It certainly looks as if he carries more muscle around his legs though.

Lets be honest weight can vary hugely during the course of the day. I once weight myself before going to the bog, and after, and there was a noticeable difference.
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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 12:08 pm

That's a great game SS ha

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 02 Oct 2016, 6:28 pm

James Davies standing next to brother Jonathan Davies outside their local on scrum V, Foxy clearly being the taller and bigger of the two. During the interview Cubby comes out with "I've been playing well for two years now..." Rolling Eyes poor boyo still believes the overhype surrounding him, still believes it's his divine right to be in that Wales team. It's very reminiscent of those previous comments "oh cheers for not picking me Gatland now that we've come second at the olympics." A daft thing to say when the stock of Tipiric and Jenkins rose over the weekend - the former especially.

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