Scotland Autumn Internationals '16

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Post by bsando on Mon 26 Sep 2016, 10:20 am

First topic message reminder :

AUTUMN INTERNATIONALS 2016

Scotland Squad
Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 58 caps
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap
Moray Low (Exeter Chiefs) – 34 caps
Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps

Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 99 caps
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) – 9 caps

Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 12 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps
Richie Gray (Toulouse) – 58 caps
Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 24 caps

John Barclay (Scarlets) – 52 caps
John Hardie (Edinburgh Rugby) – 12 caps
Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps
Josh Strauss (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 2 caps
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps

Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester) – 53 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps

Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps
Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps

Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 16 caps
Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps
Huw Jones (Stormers) – 1 cap
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 18 caps

Damien Hoyland (Edinburgh Rugby) – 2 caps
Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 23 caps
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 29 caps
Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 26 caps

Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 45 caps

Scotland Autumn Internationals '16 - Page 6 Wallab11
Saturday 12 November
Scotland v Australia, BT Murrayfield Edinburgh, kick-off SAT 14:30
Scotland Autumn Internationals '16 - Page 6 Arg10
Saturday 19 November
Scotland v Argentina, BT Murrayfield Edinburgh, kick-off SAT 17:00
Scotland Autumn Internationals '16 - Page 6 Georgi10
Saturday 26 November
Scotland v Georgia, Rugby Park Kilmarnock, Kick-off SAT 14:30

Recent Head To Head

18 Oct 2015 (RWC) Australia 35 - 34 Scotland
23 Nov 2013 Scotland 15 - 21 Australia

08 Nov 2014 Scotland 41 - 31 Argentina
20 Jun 2014 Argentina 19 - 21 Scotland

14 Sep 2011 (RWC) Scotland 15 - 6 Georgia

Recent 2016 Results

Wallabies
Australia 36 - 20 Argentina
Australia 23 - 17 South Africa
New Zealand 29 - 9 Australia
Australia 8 - 42 New Zealand

Argentina
Australia 36 - 20 Argentina
New Zealand 57 - 22 Argentina
Argentina 26 - 24 South Africa
South Africa 30 - 23 Argentina

Georgia
Fiji 3 - 14 Georgia
Georgia 23 - 20 Tonga
Samoa 19 - 19 Georgia
Georgia 38 - 9 Romania


Last edited by bsando on Tue 25 Oct 2016, 10:51 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 31 Oct 2016, 5:44 pm

Well I suppose it is the sort of place where you could be sick after a few too many, to realise that you've actually been sick on someone else's sick. Sort of like Glasgow.

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Post by bsando on Mon 31 Oct 2016, 5:54 pm

Cheers for the tips! Might give that one in E&C a go, I used to live above a pub near there and yes E&C is definitely not like neighbouring bermondsey. I only really know of Scottish restaurants in London but have never found a decent watering hole. If it's on BBC then that may make life easier as some pubs with TV's dont have Sky.

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Post by Prothero on Mon 31 Oct 2016, 6:22 pm

Has anyone seen the bbc rugby page? The most recent update reveals that the whole sru / premiership pay dispute boils down to one injury to "one player no longer currently involved withthe squad in 2013".

A quick look through the 2013 Scotland squad brings up the interesting proposition that the non named player who injury cost tens of thousands could have been former Scotland captain Kelly Brown???idea idea Shocked  

Wild speculation of course? but what a scandal if Kelly's International career ended due to such a petty dispute. Shocked

Update***Ignore the above the injury was to Euen Murray according to the scotsman.*** Doh picard

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Post by Dourauldscot on Tue 01 Nov 2016, 3:57 pm

Ridiculous that the England and Scotland games are clashing!

Depressingly, you're probably better aiming for an Australian place to show the game rather than anywhere Scottish. Maybe give the Temple Walkabout a call or the Slug@Fulham.

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Post by RDW on Tue 01 Nov 2016, 8:54 pm

Just watched the AP highlights from the weekend - Maitland scored a good try (shock horror!) And Visser looked very sharp, also scoring a good try. Whoever partners Seymour I think we're well set in the back 3. I also saw Hoyland's horrendous defensive lapse that led to Zebre's winning try - he rushed out the line for an interception that was never on, and given that we were ahead he had no reason to do it. Until his defence improves he will be a bit of a liability for Scotland (more so than Visser!).

Matt Scott had yet another big game for Gloucester and can't really be doing any more to warrant selection!

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Post by Lost In London on Tue 01 Nov 2016, 10:17 pm

Hi everyone, first time poster here! From Edinburgh and living in London.

In terms of Scottish pubs there's a great one in Kings Cross called Scottish Stores, opened around a year ago. Landlord gave us all a free pint when Scotland beat France in the Six Nations, and unbelievably for Kings Cross it has a small roof terrace. In it's previous incarnation it was a strip club called the Flying Scotsman...

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Post by George Carlin on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 4:35 am

Welcome DourAuldScot and Lost in London.  guinness

Are we happy just keeping this thread for all matches?
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Post by RDW on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 7:24 am

Lost In London wrote:Hi everyone, first time poster here! From Edinburgh and living in London.

The best of us are!

How long have you been in London?

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Post by RDW on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 8:59 am

Whatever you think of Laidlaw as a player he really is a very good leader of the squad, and speaks to the media very well. He's covered a range of issues in an interview and I think he was spot on with every topic:

- Vern Cotter's departure
- His own move to France
- Matt Scott not getting picked
- Townsend taking over
- The fact that we are facing Australia again after that Quarter Final

Scotsman wrote:Scotland skipper Greig Laidlaw gave an insight into the closeness of his relationship with national coach Vern Cotter and said the players were keen to give him the best possible send-off over the course of his last eight Tests in charge. Following this month’s three home autumn Tests against Australia, Argentina and Georgia, Cotter will depart for a return to France with Montpellier after the Six Nations as Gregor Townsend takes the Scotland reins.

At the start of Scotland’s training camp at Heriot-Watt University’s state-of-the-art Oriam centre, Laidlaw spoke of his respect for Cotter and how he has helped his game and advised him on his move to the Kiwi’s former club Clermont-Auvergne, who the scrum-half will join from Gloucester at the end of the season. “I talked to Vern,” said the 31-year-old when asked about his upcoming move to the French Top 14. “I don’t think it is any secret that I am a big admirer of him in terms of how he’s helped me with my game and how he’s helped the team, so, yeah, I got his opinion on a few things.

He’s obviously spent a lot of time in that part of the world so he was helpful for me in that sense.” Laidlaw insisted that there was no chance of any end-of-an era malaise. “Credit to the man Vern is, he’s extremely focused on all things rugby and he’s not mentioned anything else,” said the 53-times capped former Jed-Forest and Edinburgh man. “All Vern wants to do is win games of rugby.

As a player group we understand that’s the way of the world, things happen which are out of our control, so we’re very focused on giving Vern a good last eight Tests. “We want to do well, we always want to do well and always want to win. When the time comes, the boys will definitely thank Vern for what he’s done for us as a group and as individuals. “Things happen within the game and Scottish Rugby made it clear they want a Scottish coach in there and they’ve done that, and Gregor’s had success in the recent past with Glasgow and he’s done a good job there. They feel that the time is right and it’s the decision they made so we’ll go with that.”

There had been reports that Clermont were perhaps keen for Laidlaw to quit international rugby as part of the deal, but that was never going to happen according to the man who has now been established as the team’s leader for a number of years and was nominated for World Player of the Year in 2015. “To be fair to them they were pretty open from the outset,” said Laidlaw.

“Morgan Parra’s there and he’s not in the French squad at the moment. They were open at the start, they wanted me to go there and it was one of the stipulations for me, that I keep playing for Scotland at this moment in time. We were able to come to an agreement, so it’s worked out for me.” Laidlaw admits playing in France is something he is greatly looking forward to and added: “I’m really excited, you look at the way they’re playing at the moment in the Champions Cup and the Top 14, they’re playing a great brand of rugby.

“It’s the chance to go into a different league again. I’ve played the Pro12 and the Premiership and I think I’d have regretted it for the rest of my career and probably the rest of my life if I hadn’t taken this opportunity. “They’ve got a great facility and the make-up of the players they have there it can only further develop me as a player. “With Morgan Parra being there, I’m not going to play 80 minutes week in week out. “I’m playing a lot of rugby at the moment down at Gloucester.

So that competition for a place will make me a better player and, in terms of not playing every week, it’s got to be good for a player, none of us are getting any younger.” Gloucester team-mate Matt Scott was one of the surprise omissions from Cotter’s squad and Laidlaw revealed that it has come as a blow to the in-form centre. “I’ve spoken to him and he’s disappointed as any player would be,” said Laidlaw.

“Credit to him, this is the best rugby I’ve seen him play. You look at our squad we’ve got strong centres and it’s a position that’s strongly contested, and they feel at this moment Matty needs to develop things in his game. “If he keeps playing the way he is he’ll be hard to leave out for the Six Nations. He’s been on fire to be fair for Gloucester, six tries in seven games, he’s really enjoying the environment and he just needs to keep doing it. “He was pretty down when he spoke to me but he just needs to get back on the field and play well for Gloucester.”

Of course the meeting with Australia on 12 November brings the obvious questions about the last encounter between the nations – that harrowing defeat in the Rugby World Cup quarter-final at Twickenham, when South African referee Craig Joubert awarded the controversial late penalty that allowed the Wallabies a 35-34 win. “It’ll be a bit strange, the first time playing against them again,” admitted Laidlaw. “But the way that unfolded, it wasn’t the Australians, was it? It’s nothing to do with them.

We can’t get caught up in that moment, we can use it, but it could come back to haunt us a little bit. “We need to stay in the moment, play what we see in front of us. We’re going in with a strong gameplan and we will have a few surprises for them. We can start the game well, hopefully it’ll go to the back of our minds. If we turn them over this time it’ll make it that little bit easier.

“Nothing will ever make up for it, the chance to be in a [World Cup] semi-final was massive, and we talked about that as a group of players, it was only them who had that opportunity. “You look at the squad now and there’s a few players who played that day who are not in the squad now. It’s always changing but we want to win, to beat good opposition and we have another crack against Australia who’ve been in a bit of a sticky patch. In their last couple of games they’re starting to play a lot better and they’ll be coming across here looking to get things moving themselves.”

There is a general feeling that the current Australia team is weaker than the Wallaby side that reached the World Cup final in 2015 and pushed the All Blacks in a competitive final. Laidlaw agrees there is an opportunity but stresses that there is a risk of underestimating one of the great rugby superpowers. “They’ve been struggling a little in that they’ve not been winning games consistently,” said Laidlaw. “We feel the start of the game is going to be key, if we start well and get in amongst them, pull a few surprises to get us on the front foot we can grow confidence from there, hopefully they’ll start to think `here we are again, we’re in a little bit of trouble’ and we can grow arms and legs. A strong foothold in that first 20 minutes we’ll be right in the hunt.”

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/scotland/greig-laidlaw-we-want-to-give-vern-cotter-fitting-send-off-1-4273855

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Post by beshocked on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 10:14 am

Surely Matt Scott will come in? Taylor has been injured for some time. I don't understand why anyone would select an injured player over a non injured one. Of course I think Taylor is the better player but he's not fully fit.

Prothero interesting you mention Kelly Brown, I don't know why Kelly Brown has fallen from Scottish captain to 3rd choice flanker at Sarries in the last 2-3 years. Doesn't seem to be any sign that he'll get back to his best either.

Maitland is indeed playing well this season for Saracens. His finishes against Toulon and Leicester were excellent. Despite being tackled by Nonu and Halfpenny vs Toulon he managed to squeeze into the corner. Showing good strength vs Leicester, eluding Pietersen and powering over despite being tackled by two Leicester forwards.

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Post by RDW on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 10:17 am

Matt Scott has never been favoured by VC and has only really been picked due to injury - he wasn't originally in the world cup squad but was an injury replacement.

Some coaches just don't rate players and the fact that an injured Duncan Taylor was preferred to a 'form of his life' Matt Scott says it all!

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Post by beshocked on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 10:37 am

I personally think that Matt Scott is a player generally overrated but in this particular circumstance I think he's very unfortunate.

Centre is a position for Scotland where you have some very nice options - Dunbar,Bennett and Taylor - all decent players. I certainly wouldn't have Scott over any of them if all 3 were fit.

Does certainly seem like a kick in the teeth for Matt Scott though. Good form should be rewarded IMO.

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Post by RDW on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 10:49 am

I am a big fan of Matt Scott but I agree that Dunbar is a better 12 and Taylor and Bennett are better 13's, but he would be my first choice 12 if Dunbar was injured.

Taylor has barely played this season and as of last weekend still wasn't fit, and if he is in any of the matchday squads this AIs it really doesn't send a great message.

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Post by beshocked on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:01 am

Completely agree. OK

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Post by Lost In London on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 12:56 pm

I've been in London for a year and half now, so starting to get to use to 'London' Life. How about you?

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Post by RDW on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 12:59 pm

10 weeks now. Work is manic with lots of late finishes but we're loving London life generally. I think it has only rained a handful of times since we've been here!

For London specific chat feel free to add your recommendations here - there are a few of us on this site that live / have lived in London

http://www.606v2.com/t63667-rugby-in-london

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Post by demosthenes on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 1:52 pm

Alex Allen called up as injury cover.

http://www.glasgowwarriors.com/articles/news/009579.php

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Post by RDW on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 1:56 pm

Dickinson and Reid are doubtful - not good!

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Post by George Carlin on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 2:11 pm

Where's Radge when you need a good prop?

Well, a prop anyway.  Run
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Post by RDW on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 2:13 pm

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You know it is time!

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Post by BigGee on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 4:31 pm

VC does seem to like consistency of selection and he seems to be viewing the squad now as that going forward into the 6N as well, I don't see him making many changes even after xmas.

Taylor and Dickinson, he clearly sees as an integral part of his squad, even if they are short of fitness. They may or may not see a lot of game time in this series, but will hopefully do so, come the 6N. They have both earnt their credits with him and it is hard to argue against it.

Huw Jones is the bolter at centre, who does not have the international pedigree but whom the coach clearly sees something he likes and who has been picked over Scott. He has been in form as well.

At the the moment, you would probably say that Dunbar starts at 12 and it is Jones/Bennett at 13 with Taylor maybe coming in for one of the later games if he can get fit.

Matt Scott is only one injury away from jumping back in, so I would not give up on him. The chances of getting through the whole series without someone going down are slim.

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Post by bsando on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 6:05 pm

Wonder how chunky chunk is now?

Agree above, Dunbar, Bennett and Jones are the in form and fit centres with Taylor involved due to what I also believe to be Vern's plan for his last year. Guess it was either involve Scott and drop Taylor but I don't think Vern wants to do that.

Lot of "who will partner Seymour as the other winger" mentions on here. I understand, but I won't be shocked if Maitland and Visser start with Seymour on the bench, him and Horne are handy subs.

Could be a pretty young front row starting if injuries are still present in 2 weeks time..

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Post by Majestic83 on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 9:39 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/vern-cotter-relaxed-ahead-of-final-season-with-scotland-1-4272604

A few key points:

We're fecked in the front row. Dickinson is still doubtful, as is Reid

Hardie will start at 7

A number of the players in the squad aren't match fit (something we've noted here)

Waratahs flanker Jack Dempsey is on Scotland's radar. Does anyone know anything about him?

The decision to remove such a high calibre coach is s huge gamble by Dodson

Can't see Jack Dempsey playing in Scottish colours anytime soon. Signed a new deal with the Waratahs for another 2 years and is also currently with the Wallabies on tour as an apprentice.
http://www.planetrugby.com/news/dempsey-pens-new-waratahs-deal/

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Post by Majestic83 on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 9:41 am

bsando wrote:Wonder how chunky chunk is now?

Agree above, Dunbar, Bennett and Jones are the in form and fit centres with Taylor involved due to what I also believe to be Vern's plan for his last year. Guess it was either involve Scott and drop Taylor but I don't think Vern wants to do that.

Lot of "who will partner Seymour as the other winger" mentions on here. I understand, but I won't be shocked if Maitland and Visser start with Seymour on the bench, him and Horne are handy subs.

Could be a pretty young front row starting if injuries are still present in 2 weeks time..

He's slightly less chunky chunk now and has slimmed down a bit. Started his own business now working as a plumber in East Lothian.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 10:15 am

Interesting, he piled on the weight initially after giving up rugby (pro rugby at least), so must have worked like mad to get it off again.

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Post by RDW on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 12:18 pm

Edinburgh have announced their team and Players retained by Scotland squad: Alasdair Dickinson, Allan Dell, Ross Ford, Grant Gilchrist, John Hardie and Hamish Watson

Are we going to see Watson in the squad for Australia?

Sadly it looks like Gilchrist will be there too...

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 2:52 pm

Looks promising for Hamish Watson, although it's given "Lions bolter" James Ritchie a chance to shine for Edinburgh tomorrow evening.

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Post by RDW on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 12:07 pm

Bennett, Swinson and Harley starting foe Glasgow - Huw Jones starting against Aus??

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 12:29 pm

I'm surprised about Bennett. He's the form 13 for my money.

I'm delighted about Swinson, although he can be rightly miffed if Gilchrist is selected ahead of him. Reputation over form right there.

I don't think Harley is ever going to win many international caps. He just doesn't have the allround skillset that Cotter (and Johnson before him) seem to want from the back row. He always looks unprepared when he catches the ball.

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Post by Prothero on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 1:01 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'm surprised about Bennett. He's the form 13 for my money.

I'm delighted about Swinson, although he can be rightly miffed if Gilchrist is selected ahead of him. Reputation over form right there.

I don't think Harley is ever going to win many international caps. He just doesn't have the allround skillset that Cotter (and Johnson before him) seem to want from the back row. He always looks unprepared when he catches the ball.

Yeah but toonie loves him, so I expect him to be a centurion after the next world cup.

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Post by TJ on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 6:06 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Scotland Autumn Internationals '16 - Page 6 359187_1

You know it is time!

A fine figure of a man

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Post by RDW on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 3:21 pm

Australia running riot against Wales, and I'm not sure we're any better than Wales!

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Post by GLove39 on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:37 pm

Gulp

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Post by RDW on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:48 pm

They were pretty ordinary in the 2nd half though - perhaps because Wales didn't make them work very hard

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Post by TJ on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:50 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Australia running riot against Wales, and I'm not sure we're any better than Wales!

We are not - but we play in a different way that Aus might find harder to cope with( I hope) less predictable

MY prediction - we will lose but will score tries - 40-25 to aus

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Post by George Carlin on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 5:28 pm

Yes, we will be freer with how we play than Wales.

And I agree that means we'll ship 5 tries but we'll score at least 3.
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Post by RDW on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 6:04 pm

Matty Russell just scored an incredible try for Scotland rugby league v England - on BBC 2!

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Post by George Carlin on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 6:51 pm

Don't know who does these, but there is a nice Huw Jones highlights reel online:

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Post by BigGee on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 7:12 pm

He seems to have some amazing acceleration and time on the ball.

It looks like he is going to be starting next weekend, I am looking forward to seeing him play.

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Post by RDW on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 9:33 pm

It is normally the player's management that makes these - an online CV basically

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Post by George Carlin on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 11:37 am

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 10:34 am

George Carlin wrote:Don't know who does these, but there is a nice Huw Jones highlights reel online:


Whilst these reels are obviously designed to show players in the most positive light (although I'm surprised that Risky hasn't put together a compilation of NDL's greatest knock-ons) there is some undeniably strong footage on there. I think you'd struggle to compose a reel of similar quality about Chris Dean, for example, leading me to suggest that Jones ought to sign up for the Ulster-slayers sooner rather than later. A midfield axis of Tovey/Burleigh/Jones could really be something.

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Post by reallybored on Tue 06 Dec 2016, 3:27 pm

Exiles XV looks pretty good right now, bit light on forwards.

15 - Maitland
14 - Jones
13 - Taylor
12 - Scott
11 - Visser
10 - Heathcote (has Jackson played yet?)
9 - Laidlaw

8 - Denton
7 - Barclay
6 - Eadie
5 - Hamilton*
4 - Gray
3 - Low
2 - Lawson*
1 - Welsh

* Is there anyone else playing top level rugby?

I reckon that side would give a Scottish based XV a very good match....possibly beat them.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Tue 06 Dec 2016, 4:01 pm

Jackson is playing but 3rd choice at Quins largely down to being injury riddled.

A Toolis is going to play for the Rebels though he is uncapped. There are no hookers I can think of.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 06 Dec 2016, 4:38 pm

Heathcote is not playing much at the moment and I don't think he is injured either. He seems to have fallen down the pecking order somewhat at Worcester, which is not saying much for his CV.

Jacko had a decent cameo when he came on for Quins at Newcastle on sunday. Even though they lost he moved the ball around well and kicked a couple of decent goals to give them their bonus point. Evans is injured again and seems to be held together with sellotape, maybe he will get some more game time now, especially as they have two games against the Romanians.

Jacko probably is our second best FH atm, but he needs to be playing regularly to put himself back in the international frame.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 06 Dec 2016, 4:45 pm

Adam Hastings is still playing well for the Bath Academy. With Ford potentially moving on I would expect to see him starting to force his way into the senior squad.
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Post by RDW on Tue 06 Dec 2016, 4:51 pm

He has also got gametime for the 1st team off the bench over the last few weeks

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 06 Dec 2016, 5:09 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:He has also got gametime for the 1st team off the bench over the last few weeks

I'm really hoping he can turn into a decent 10

I know the weegies think the sun shines out of tiny dancer's backside, but I really think he is a distinctly average stand off! We really need a good 10 to move forward! (we also could do with a new 9)
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Post by RDW on Tue 06 Dec 2016, 5:20 pm

Wondered why the posts on this thread were so old - what's wrong with this thread!

http://www.606v2.com/t64586-scotland-autumn-series-post-mortem-and-6n-look-ahead

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Post by RDW on Tue 06 Dec 2016, 5:21 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:He has also got gametime for the 1st team off the bench over the last few weeks

I'm really hoping he can turn into a decent 10

I know the weegies think the sun shines out of tiny dancer's backside, but I really think he is a distinctly average stand off! We really need a good 10 to move forward! (we also could do with a new 9)

Controversial!

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