Dudley Phillips

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Dudley Phillips

Post by PhilBB on Wed 28 Sep 2016, 5:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

Dudley Phillips is employed by the IRFU as a "Participation Rugby Operations Officer". He used to be part of the Leinster Branch Rugby Referees: http://www.arlb.ie/?tag=dudley-philips

This weekend he is refereeing....... Leinster.

Now, I remember being told explicitly by Sin e that this kind of thing couldn't happen.

Dudley has never refereed Leinster before.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:19 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:It isn't, but hardly the fault of PRO12 when there is a lack of Scottish and Italian refs

So what you are telling us is, that out of ALL the Irish refs available, the only one that the Pro12 could use was one that was contracted to the Leinster branch, for a Leinster game ?  The nationality of the refs is not in question, can you see how this looks ? I cannot understand how you would want to except this in a professional league ? Why ? Why would you accept this ?

I haven't looked at who is reffing where, LD. I don't share your obsession with PRO12 bitching. You could be right and, if you are, it doesn't look good.

Dudley isn't a very good ref, but I'm sure he will be equally bad for both sides.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Notch on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:19 am

PhilBB wrote:
Notch wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Isn't the point of a message board to work out which contributors are accurate and which are full of it?

No, it is a forum for people who share a common interest to discuss it with other, like-minded people. If it's working in an ideal fashion, it is an enjoyable and good-natured discussion which is respectful and considerate. On the internet that is rare enough but thats the ideal.

Understood.

I'll look out for the respectful and considerate responses from the small collective of Irish rugby followers who have yet to show me any.

You reap what you sow.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:20 am

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:


I answered your message. What man was I playing? Slip?

You didn't answer the message. You were playing smallclone, a mate of mine and fellow Gwlader who supports Llanelli. It really needs to get into your brain that he and I are very different people. It will help you a lot once you've grasped that.

I did. Look below that message.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:20 am

Notch wrote:
It's directed at everybody. Of course, people who take the bait and react to stuff need to know better but they are not necessarily the core of the problem. People get very defensive when they are criticised or patronised and you end up with a 'debate' which is just about one upmanship.

The recent debates have been about minimum standards required of a proper league. In return, Dowellais and I have been on the end of some (attempted) 'abuse' from a small clique of Irish rugby followers. It bothers me not a jot, unless it can't be reciprocated for fear of being 'annoying'.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by SecretFly on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:21 am

PhilBB wrote:

Being Welsh and refereeing a Welsh team is not in the same league as reffing the IRFU controlled Leinster, full of IRFU employees, whilst being an IRFU employee yourself and being part of the Leinster Referees society.

That is blindingly obvious.

Yeah, we all believe that a Welsh ref wouldn't have a natural bias for said Regions when they face external sides from abroad.  We are talking 'Welsh' here? - One of the most passionately 'Us' against 'them' crowd in the Universe.

Try some new argument because the one your using about this subject is stale and impotent.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:21 am

Notch wrote:
You reap what you sow.

I'll believe you once you've pointed me to the list of Irish rugby followers banned this year for 'being annoying'.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Notch on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:23 am

Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:It isn't, but hardly the fault of PRO12 when there is a lack of Scottish and Italian refs

So what you are telling us is, that out of ALL the Irish refs available, the only one that the Pro12 could use was one that was contracted to the Leinster branch, for a Leinster game ?  The nationality of the refs is not in question, can you see how this looks ? I cannot understand how you would want to except this in a professional league ? Why ? Why would you accept this ?

I haven't looked at who is reffing where, LD. I don't share your obsession with PRO12 bitching. You could be right and, if you are, it doesn't look good.

Dudley isn't a very good ref, but I'm sure he will be equally bad for both sides.

I do feel we should wait and see what happens in the game. Obviously bias is a very subjective thing to detect when both sets of fans are biased! But if he is fair and even-handed then the point is somewhat moot. Not arguing that it should happen- Leinster ref refereeing Leinster shouldn't happen. That we can probably agree on. But it's also my experience that we (Ulster) get a harder time off Irish referees out to prove they are unbiased than we get off Welsh referees. Again, thats my subjective opinion.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:26 am

Notch wrote:

I do feel we should wait and see what happens in the game. Obviously bias is a very subjective thing to detect when both sets of fans are biased! But if he is fair and even-handed then the point is somewhat moot. Not arguing that it should happen- Leinster ref refereeing Leinster shouldn't happen. That we can probably agree on. But it's also my experience that we (Ulster) get a harder time off Irish referees out to prove they are unbiased than we get off Welsh referees. Again, thats my subjective opinion.

Dudley should NOT be put in this position. A professional league would not do it.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:28 am

Notch wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:It isn't, but hardly the fault of PRO12 when there is a lack of Scottish and Italian refs

So what you are telling us is, that out of ALL the Irish refs available, the only one that the Pro12 could use was one that was contracted to the Leinster branch, for a Leinster game ?  The nationality of the refs is not in question, can you see how this looks ? I cannot understand how you would want to except this in a professional league ? Why ? Why would you accept this ?

I haven't looked at who is reffing where, LD. I don't share your obsession with PRO12 bitching. You could be right and, if you are, it doesn't look good.

Dudley isn't a very good ref, but I'm sure he will be equally bad for both sides.

I do feel we should wait and see what happens in the game. Obviously bias is a very subjective thing to detect when both sets of fans are biased! But if he is fair and even-handed then the point is somewhat moot. Not arguing that it should happen- Leinster ref refereeing Leinster shouldn't happen. That we can probably agree on. But it's also my experience that we (Ulster) get a harder time off Irish referees out to prove they are unbiased than we get off Welsh referees. Again, thats my subjective opinion.

I agree. It shouldn't happen if it can be avoided. The level of paranoia from certain quarters is staggering though. I guess if Cardiff win the ref will have been fair and balanced .... no .... actually .... they will still moan.

Who on earth would want to be a ref?

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:29 am

Munchkin wrote: I don't share your obsession with PRO12 bitching

munchkin, I am not obsessed with bitching about the Pro12. What you need to understand is, that it is competition that I am very passionate about. It's member like you, marty, 7&1/2, carpet baboon, to name a few who turn things personal. You start attacking the member, rather than discussing the debate.

Now, what I am obsessed with is the Pro12. When I see things going on that make the league look like a Sunday league, where if we've got it well use it, or we will wing it attitude, this really gets me.

For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone else who shares my passion for this league would think differently.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:31 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote: I don't share your obsession with PRO12 bitching

munchkin, I am not obsessed with bitching about the Pro12. What you need to understand is, that it is competition that I am very passionate about. It's member like you, marty, 7&1/2, carpet baboon, to name a few who turn things personal. You start attacking the member, rather than discussing the debate.

Now, what I am obsessed with is the Pro12. When I see things going on that make the league look like a Sunday league, where if we've got it well use it, or we will wing it attitude, this really gets me.

For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone else who shares my passion for this league would think differently.

You are when you have Phil to hold your hand. You're a model poster, otherwise.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:32 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote: I don't share your obsession with PRO12 bitching

munchkin, I am not obsessed with bitching about the Pro12. What you need to understand is, that it is competition that I am very passionate about. It's member like you, marty, 7&1/2, carpet baboon, to name a few who turn things personal. You start attacking the member, rather than discussing the debate.

Now, what I am obsessed with is the Pro12. When I see things going on that make the league look like a Sunday league, where if we've got it well use it, or we will wing it attitude, this really gets me.

For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone else who shares my passion for this league would think differently.

Seen this yet: http://www.dai-sport.com/dragons-flanker-lewis-evans-hits-pro12-tmo-use/

It seems Lewis Evans agrees with you

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Notch on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:33 am

PhilBB wrote:
Notch wrote:

I do feel we should wait and see what happens in the game. Obviously bias is a very subjective thing to detect when both sets of fans are biased! But if he is fair and even-handed then the point is somewhat moot. Not arguing that it should happen- Leinster ref refereeing Leinster shouldn't happen. That we can probably agree on. But it's also my experience that we (Ulster) get a harder time off Irish referees out to prove they are unbiased than we get off Welsh referees. Again, thats my subjective opinion.

Dudley should NOT be put in this position. A professional league would not do it.

There is a shortage of referees, never mind a shortage of referees who are actually good, but at least they recognise this and are working hard to correct this. Super Rugby has the same problem. I feel like these arguments are part of the problem, admittedly a very small one, in that reading them wouldn't exactly inspire me to go out and start refereeing to be honest.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:33 am

Munchkin wrote:
I agree. It shouldn't happen if it can be avoided. The level of paranoia from certain quarters is staggering though. I guess if Cardiff win the ref will have been fair and balanced .... no .... actually .... they will still moan.

Who on earth would want to be a ref?

Dismissing the desire for top standards as 'bitching' or 'moaning' is a childlike trick to play the man and not the issue. It does you a disservice.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:33 am

Munchkin wrote:I agree. It shouldn't happen if it can be avoided. The level of paranoia from certain quarters is staggering though. I guess if Cardiff win the ref will have been fair and balanced .... no .... actually .... they will still moan.

GOOD GOD munchkin.

It's not paranoia. IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. Not in a pro environment, not in a pro era. Can you not see how this makes our league look ?


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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by marty2086 on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:33 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote: I don't share your obsession with PRO12 bitching

munchkin, I am not obsessed with bitching about the Pro12. What you need to understand is, that it is competition that I am very passionate about. It's member like you, marty, 7&1/2, carpet baboon, to name a few who turn things personal. You start attacking the member, rather than discussing the debate.

Now, what I am obsessed with is the Pro12. When I see things going on that make the league look like a Sunday league, where if we've got it well use it, or we will wing it attitude, this really gets me.

For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone else who shares my passion for this league would think differently.

Excuse me?

Where did I turn things personal?

We have Phil started threads to start an argument with individual posters, calling people champ and genius to belittle and making himself out to be fricking Richard Branson whereas hes more Donald Trump

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:35 am

Notch wrote:

There is a shortage of referees, never mind a shortage of referees who are actually good, but at least they recognise this and are working hard to correct this. Super Rugby has the same problem. I feel like these arguments are part of the problem, admittedly a very small one, in that reading them wouldn't exactly inspire me to go out and start refereeing to be honest.

There isn't a shortage to the extent where this has to happen. As has been written before, Owens is in Galway. The sensible thing would be for him and Phillips to swap.

The idea that the wish for neutrality is a hindrance to folk wishing to take up refereeing falls over when faced with the reality of the international game.

For the record, I'd have no issue with an Irish referee for a game involving my club and an Irish side, as long as the referee and the players didn't have the same employer.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:36 am

marty2086 wrote:
We have Phil started threads to start an argument with individual posters, calling people champ and genius to belittle and making himself out to be fricking Richard Branson whereas hes more Donald Trump

What a deliciously ironic post.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:37 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote: I don't share your obsession with PRO12 bitching

munchkin, I am not obsessed with bitching about the Pro12. What you need to understand is, that it is competition that I am very passionate about. It's member like you, marty, 7&1/2, carpet baboon, to name a few who turn things personal. You start attacking the member, rather than discussing the debate.

Now, what I am obsessed with is the Pro12. When I see things going on that make the league look like a Sunday league, where if we've got it well use it, or we will wing it attitude, this really gets me.

For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone else who shares my passion for this league would think differently.

Excuse me?

Where did I turn things personal?

We have Phil started threads to start an argument with individual posters, calling people champ and genius to belittle and making himself out to be fricking Richard Branson whereas hes more Donald Trump

marty, you and your mates start telling me I'm paranoid and the what not, you poke fun, take the p1ss. Above, I have munchkin saying I need phil to hold my hand. Come on, lets not pretend you and you mates on here are model members.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:40 am

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
I agree. It shouldn't happen if it can be avoided. The level of paranoia from certain quarters is staggering though. I guess if Cardiff win the ref will have been fair and balanced .... no .... actually .... they will still moan.

Who on earth would want to be a ref?

Dismissing the desire for top standards as 'bitching' or 'moaning' is a childlike trick to play the man and not the issue. It does you a disservice.

You are lying. You have no desire for improved standards in the PRO12. You're obsessed with wanting its destruction.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:46 am

Munchkin wrote:
You are lying. You have no desire for improved standards in the PRO12. You're obsessed with wanting its destruction.

I'd love to die at the end of the season, but that's not going to happen. Therefore, whilst it is still alive, I want it to be as professional as minimum standards dictate. Therefore, no lie.

Sorry.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by SecretFly on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:46 am

Laugh

What a fun thread OK

Richard Branson. I knew all them figures and spread sheets and bank statements and market-lingo reminded me of someone

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:47 am

Munchkin wrote:You are lying. You have no desire for improved standards in the PRO12. You're obsessed with wanting its destruction.

That is not true of me, and it is me who that post was aimed at.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:48 am

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
You are lying. You have no desire for improved standards in the PRO12. You're obsessed with wanting its destruction.

I'd love to die at the end of the season, but that's not going to happen. Therefore, whilst it is still alive, I want it to be as professional as minimum standards dictate. Therefore, no lie.

Sorry.


????

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:48 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:You are lying. You have no desire for improved standards in the PRO12. You're obsessed with wanting its destruction.

That is not true of me, and it is me who that post was aimed at.

No it wasn't.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:49 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:You are lying. You have no desire for improved standards in the PRO12. You're obsessed with wanting its destruction.

That is not true of me, and it is me who that post was aimed at.

Its not true of me either.

Sadly, those who aren't arguing the point but the man instead, are moving on to accusations of lies as their previous play the man schoolyard stuff has failed.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:49 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:You are lying. You have no desire for improved standards in the PRO12. You're obsessed with wanting its destruction.

That is not true of me, and it is me who that post was aimed at.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:49 am

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
You are lying. You have no desire for improved standards in the PRO12. You're obsessed with wanting its destruction.

I'd love to die at the end of the season, but that's not going to happen. Therefore, whilst it is still alive, I want it to be as professional as minimum standards dictate. Therefore, no lie.

Sorry.


????

Ha! A missing 'it'

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:51 am

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
You are lying. You have no desire for improved standards in the PRO12. You're obsessed with wanting its destruction.

I'd love to die at the end of the season, but that's not going to happen. Therefore, whilst it is still alive, I want it to be as professional as minimum standards dictate. Therefore, no lie.

Sorry.


????

Ha! A missing 'it'

Well, whatever about you, I'm relieved that it was a typo.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:54 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:No it wasn't.

Munchkin wrote:How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

This reply was for me:-

Munchkin wrote:I haven't looked at who is reffing where, LD. I don't share your obsession with PRO12 bitching. You could be right and, if you are, it doesn't look good.

Dudley isn't a very good ref, but I'm sure he will be equally bad for both sides.

This is what Phil was talking about. Just because it was cherry picked out of conjecture with the posts, you all think it was phil being arrogant again. It wasn't it was phil replying to a reply, that munchkin posted to me.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:56 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:No it wasn't.

Munchkin wrote:How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

This reply was for me:-

Munchkin wrote:I haven't looked at who is reffing where, LD. I don't share your obsession with PRO12 bitching. You could be right and, if you are, it doesn't look good.

Dudley isn't a very good ref, but I'm sure he will be equally bad for both sides.

This is what Phil was talking about. Just because it was cherry picked out of conjecture with the posts, you all think it was phil being arrogant again. It wasn't it was phil replying to a reply, that munchkin posted to me.

It was obviously aimed at Phil. You are obsessed with PRO12 bitching, but it's just bitching. I don't believe you actually want its destruction.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by SecretFly on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 11:58 am

Munchkin wrote:You are obsessed with PRO12 bitching, but it's just bitching. I don't believe you actually want its destruction.

OK

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by marty2086 on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 12:00 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:You are lying. You have no desire for improved standards in the PRO12. You're obsessed with wanting its destruction.

That is not true of me, and it is me who that post was aimed at.

Its not true of me either.

Sadly, those who aren't arguing the point but the man instead, are moving on to accusations of lies as their previous play the man schoolyard stuff has failed.

Yes it is you have previously stated on numerous occasions you want the Pro 12 to end and a B&I League

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 12:01 pm

Munchkin wrote:You are obsessed with PRO12 bitching, but it's just bitching.

So you are happy with the standards of officiating in the pro12 ? And I do not mean so and so is better, I mean the standards that we have some games with TMO's and some without, some games all the refs are in clear contact with each other, in some games they are not, and that people and teams all employed by the same organisation and are supposed to be impartial. It's these things that make our league look like something out of the 80's.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 12:28 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:You are obsessed with PRO12 bitching, but it's just bitching.

So you are happy with the standards of officiating in the pro12 ? And I do not mean so and so is better, I mean the standards that we have some games with TMO's and some without, some games all the refs are in clear contact with each other, in some games they are not, and that people and teams all employed by the same organisation and are supposed to be impartial. It's these things that make our league look like something out of the 80's.

I'm happy that the PRO12' stated aim is to improve on it. That's all we can ask for, and that's what we will get.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 12:55 pm

Munchkin wrote:I'm happy that the PRO12' stated aim is to improve on it. That's all we can ask for, and that's what we will get

Not on current evidence we won't. The TMO situation was supposed to be done this season wasn't it ?

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 12:57 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:I'm happy that the PRO12' stated aim is to improve on it. That's all we can ask for, and that's what we will get

Not on current evidence we won't. The TMO situation was supposed to be done this season wasn't it ?

It has, hasn't it?

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 1:03 pm

I can't see what all the fuss is about really.

Should Dudley Phillips be reffing the Leinster game this weekend? No.

He could have reffed a Scottish or Italian match instead. Any other selection would have been better for that particular match.




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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by marty2086 on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 1:08 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:I'm happy that the PRO12' stated aim is to improve on it. That's all we can ask for, and that's what we will get

Not on current evidence we won't. The TMO situation was supposed to be done this season wasn't it ?

No next season

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by SecretFly on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 1:10 pm

Pot Hale wrote:I can't see what all the fuss is about really.

Should Dudley Phillips be reffing the Leinster game this weekend?   No.

He could have reffed a Scottish or Italian match instead.  Any other selection would have been better for that particular match.  




Well it's added three more pages to the Down with Pro12 campaign anyway. So someone is smiling.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 1:11 pm

How many games haven't had a neutral TMO? I admit I don't always take notice of what nationality the TMO happens to be, but I'm pretty sure there has been a marked increase of neutral TMO's, if not all.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by marty2086 on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 1:27 pm

Munchkin wrote:How many games haven't had a neutral TMO? I admit I don't always take notice of what nationality the TMO happens to be, but I'm pretty sure there has been a marked increase of neutral TMO's, if not all.

The Ulster Ospreys match tomorrow will be the first this season without a neutral TMO

There have been 4 without TMOs, strangely all between Welsh and Italian sides though there are two tomorrow both with the Italian sides

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 1:33 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:How many games haven't had a neutral TMO? I admit I don't always take notice of what nationality the TMO happens to be, but I'm pretty sure there has been a marked increase of neutral TMO's, if not all.

The Ulster Ospreys match tomorrow will be the first this season without a neutral TMO

There have been 4 without TMOs, strangely all between Welsh and Italian sides though there are two tomorrow both with the Italian sides

Thanks, marty. It will be interesting to find the difference between this seasons use of neutral TMO's to last, later in the season, but already looking like an improvement to me.

The games without TMO's is due to BBCW not being able, or willing, to broadcast lives games to TV. That and the fact that the Italian sides are without a broadcaster. Apparently a new broadcasting deal is in progress though.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by marty2086 on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 1:41 pm

The AP are only into their 4th season with TMOs at every game

Across the world Television Match Officials are traditionally only appointed for games covered live on TV. But after a substantial financial investment by the Premiership Rugby Board, referees in all 135 Aviva Premiership Rugby matches will now be able to consult the TMO, for the first time in the League’s history.

Pro 12 aren't exactly cash rich so wouldn't necessarily have the funds to have a TMO at every game

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Munchkin on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 2:08 pm

marty2086 wrote:The AP are only into their 4th season with TMOs at every game

Across the world Television Match Officials are traditionally only appointed for games covered live on TV. But after a substantial financial investment by the Premiership Rugby Board, referees in all 135 Aviva Premiership Rugby matches will now be able to consult the TMO, for the first time in the League’s history.

Pro 12 aren't exactly cash rich so wouldn't necessarily have the funds to have a TMO at every game

It's good that they can do that though. I did say in another thread that providing a TMO in every game may be cost prohibitive, for those not broadcast live, and the above seems to confirm it. The real aim should be to have all games broadcast live, and then no issue with a lack of TMO. That may be some way off though.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by marty2086 on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 2:15 pm

Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The AP are only into their 4th season with TMOs at every game

Across the world Television Match Officials are traditionally only appointed for games covered live on TV. But after a substantial financial investment by the Premiership Rugby Board, referees in all 135 Aviva Premiership Rugby matches will now be able to consult the TMO, for the first time in the League’s history.

Pro 12 aren't exactly cash rich so wouldn't necessarily have the funds to have a TMO at every game

It's good that they can do that though. I did say in another thread that providing a TMO in every game may be cost prohibitive, for those not broadcast live, and the above seems to confirm it. The real aim should be to have all games broadcast live, and then no issue with a lack of TMO. That may be some way off though.

The reason that its the case is that you need an available production suite/truck to view the videos in. Unless all Pro12 clubs are going to stump up cash to install one at their grounds or Pro 12 are going to buy a truck or two to do it you need the games broadcast live. You also need the staff to run the production and they have to be trained or experienced in producing rugby for television.

But that's all very simple

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by SecretFly on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 2:23 pm

What IS a 'Neutral' official though?

We'll get told that first things first is he 'must be seen' to be neutral.  So there is a raw 'definition' of sorts to begin with that everybody seems to give the lazy nod to.
I, however, always have a little smile at the elementary feel to that bland and evasive definition.  Adults aren't kids but they seem to be all too often prepared to pretend they are kids in order to win an argument or achieve a little moral victory in debate (yes, I don't exclude myself there Wink ).

So the generally held theory is that a Neutral official is a Welshman reffing or TMOing a game between Connacht and Treviso.  A neutral official is a Scottish man reffing or TMOing a game between Munster and Cardiff.

Okay, we all get that.  That's the 'must be seen to be' part that panders to the sparky fans that are always on the lookout for 'fairness'.

But to me, that's only elementary childish window dressing - and I think all of us adults know the truth.

The truth is that an official isn't 'neutral' if he's an Irishman reffing a game between Ospreys and Edinburgh.  He isn't neutral because he's reffing (or TMOing) though a competition - and he's aware of the League table.  He's all too aware of the League Table.  He's aware of the position of Ospreys on the table and what they'd like from the game, and he's aware of Edinburgh's position on the table and what result might suit them.  
But mostly, in theory and in practice, he's aware of where both sides are in relation to a few Irish teams that allegedly he wouldn't have a 'neutral' view on.  Now, if said ref is biased and ready to initiate bias, that referee can choose not to be 'neutral' in that supposedly 'neutral' game.  If he chooses to be unprofessional and act on bias, he has ample opportunity to try to orchestrate a result that might aid one of his favoured sides in terms of overall League table position.  The ref/TMO doesn't have to be involved in a game involving one of his favoured sides.  He can still very much influence the League table regardless of what games he officiates at on any given weekend.

Of course, in elementary/childish terms, nobody (fans or journalists) gets so cynical, or at least everybody pretends they don't.  So the reply is always: 'Let's keep it simple.  Let's not over complicate this.  Let's pretend that 'neutrality' is more easily defined.  Let's pretend that an Italian ref or TMO is always and forever going to be 'neutral' in a game against a Scottish and a Welsh side.  Let's believe the overly-simplified theory on neutrality in order to keep things handy in the debating chamber.'

But it's total crud - the truth is complex not simple, and these seasonal 'neutrality' debates and supposed solutions are laughable logic. Wink

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 2:31 pm

Now fly there is a simple solution to all of this.
Fans grow the Frick up and realise these men are being paid to do a job, and just accept that sometimes things don't go your way, much like life in that respect.
Makes it so much easier to enjoy the sport.

But some do love to blame anyone but themselves.

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by marty2086 on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 2:38 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Now fly there is a simple solution to all of this.
Fans grow the Frick up and realise these men are being paid to do a job, and just accept that sometimes things don't go your way, much like life in that respect.
Makes it so much easier to enjoy the sport.

But some do love to blame anyone but themselves.

clap

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Re: Dudley Phillips

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 30 Sep 2016, 2:45 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The AP are only into their 4th season with TMOs at every game

Across the world Television Match Officials are traditionally only appointed for games covered live on TV. But after a substantial financial investment by the Premiership Rugby Board, referees in all 135 Aviva Premiership Rugby matches will now be able to consult the TMO, for the first time in the League’s history.

Pro 12 aren't exactly cash rich so wouldn't necessarily have the funds to have a TMO at every game

It's good that they can do that though. I did say in another thread that providing a TMO in every game may be cost prohibitive, for those not broadcast live, and the above seems to confirm it. The real aim should be to have all games broadcast live, and then no issue with a lack of TMO. That may be some way off though.

The reason that its the case is that you need an available production suite/truck to view the videos in. Unless all Pro12 clubs are going to stump up cash to install one at their grounds or Pro 12 are going to buy a truck or two to do it you need the games broadcast live. You also need the staff to run the production and they have to be trained or experienced in producing rugby for television.

But that's all very simple

Are you being sarcastic or what do you think is very simple?

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Re: Dudley Phillips

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