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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

There . . . .

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Post by owen10ozzy on Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:17 pm

I know it's already over but you'd think America would finish with some fight. One thing that wasn't shown at Hazeltine was how they would fare on the back foot.....

Not very well it turns out....after the awful foursomes on the first afternoon they never recovered really and crumbled pretty quickly anytime they got behind...that would be a concern moving forward

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Post by wiretapper on Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:22 pm

Poor Alex Noren

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Post by beninho on Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:24 pm

Butch Harmon is awful.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:26 pm

beninho wrote:Butch Harmon is awful.
...and he didn't get the Patrick Reed joke.

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Post by wiretapper on Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:26 pm

How much are Woods and Mickelson getting for their head-to-head spectacular?

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Post by McLaren on Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:27 pm

beninho wrote:Butch Harmon is awful.


Yeh saw that.  I actually thought that was pretty good humored from fatprick.


Although I still can't stand McGinley.  I didn't think it would ever get worse than Bruce Critchley, but how wrong I was.
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Post by McLaren on Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:28 pm

Also how many of the louts chanting ole ole voted for #Brexit?  Utter bell ends.
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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Well done America on some great sportsmanship, except for Woods, he was as miserable as ever.

Good on Rev Spieth, Thomas and especially Furyk.


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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:32 pm

wiretapper wrote:How much are Woods and Mickelson getting for their head-to-head spectacular?

I hope they're not playing Matchplay.

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Post by McLaren on Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:32 pm

super_realist wrote:Well done America on some great sportsmanship, except for Woods, he was as miserable as ever.

Good on Rev Spieth, Thomas and especially Furyk.


You mean in the way they handed Europe the trophy, they were probably a little too generous.
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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:38 pm

No I mean they were gracious in defeat, taking the time to chat, even smiling.

Sky really need a Peter Allis/Andrew Cotter/Ken Brown though, their commentary is pretty terrible. Get rid of Laura Davies too, I lost count of how many mistakes she made.


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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:55 pm

McLaren wrote:Also how many of the louts chanting ole ole voted for #Brexit?  Utter bell ends.

Mac, that's perhaps one of your most stupid quotes ever.
It's like saying that if you voted for Brexit, you can't go on holiday to France.

The Ryder Cup is not the EU v USA, it's Europe, and that's the continent of Europe. So if someone from Norway, Iceland or Switzerland was good enough to get in they would play.

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Post by Duty281 on Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:10 pm

McLaren wrote:Also how many of the louts chanting ole ole voted for #Brexit?  Utter bell ends.

How dare they chant something Arabic?! mad

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Post by dynamark on Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:19 pm

Mac obviously hasn't been let out for a while ,Always good for a line

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Post by GPB on Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:20 pm

Well done by Team Europe. Europe dominated in almost every aspect of play. Molinari was spectacular. Unexpected after being winless in his previous two RC appearances.

Can someone give a Yank some context to the Butch Harmon comments above?

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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:26 pm

GPB, When Reed holed a putt to win his match, he did his trademark finger to lips, but did it with an smile on his face and it was clearly a joke.
Harmon said it was a disgrace, but I think he must have been the only person who didn't realise that Reed was not being serious and was only having a laugh.

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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:28 pm

Is David Ginola drunk or did his heart attacks turn in into a lunatic?

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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:35 pm

You have to wonder if Woods and Mickelson will ever play again if they require picks.

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Post by Born Slippy on Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:36 pm

super_realist wrote:GPB, When Reed holed a putt to win his match, he did his trademark finger to lips, but did it with an smile on his face and it was clearly a joke.
Harmon said it was a disgrace, but I think he must have been the only person who didn't realise that Reed was not being serious and was only having a laugh.

Yes, even after Reed then applauded the crowd. Was a very nice touch from Reed.

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Post by pedro on Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:38 pm

Fatprick is fine. I like him.

Tiger just looked old. In fact only Thomas and, bar the first morning, Finau impressed from the Americans. How did Spieth get thrashed this way after his ok first two days? And where was Rickie? In general a very dull American team.

How much was up to the course set up and home advantage? I’d say quite a lot.

Stenson and Garcia? Well, I wasn’t in doubt, neither was Bjorn. Even if the top half looked shaky at times I was comfortable having these two at the bottom half.

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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:43 pm

Pedro, you forgot Arch Deacon Simpson. I thought he was going to be dreadful, but he was excellent.

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Post by Diggers on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:01 pm

There should be goodwill afterwards. It clearly means a lot to either team to win but I don’t think their is any animosity between the sides. They must see each other on tour all the time, a lot from both sides seem to live in Florida. Both captains very respectful, decent blokes.

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Post by Just John on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:02 pm

Accumulation of golf did for Tiger, long season and FedEx run. Needed another week off before the RC. Easier for Europe to defend at home, than it is for the US. Whistling Straits should suit Europe, being a links type.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:06 pm

pedro,
Very interested to hear what you made of the Friday / Saturday on-the-spot experience.
For starters, from my armchair in June, watching the Open de France, I thought the course would be poorly suited. But this week it looked fantastic, conditioning, set-up, fans the whole lot - just brilliant the way the place was transformed.

Also think the US were pretty generous in defeat, Woods and, arguably DeChambeau (who never really seemed to me to "get it") excepted.

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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:08 pm

Just John wrote:Accumulation of golf did for Tiger, long season and FedEx run. Needed another week off before the RC. Easier for Europe to defend at home, than it is for the US. Whistling Straits should suit Europe, being a links type.

I don't buy that at all. Plenty players on each team have played more than him this year and still managed to play better golf and win points. Woods just didn't look interested, time he retired from the competition for the sake of the US. 7 matches in a row and he's won none.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:19 pm

super_realist wrote:
Just John wrote:Accumulation of golf did for Tiger, long season and FedEx run. Needed another week off before the RC. Easier for Europe to defend at home, than it is for the US. Whistling Straits should suit Europe, being a links type.

I don't buy that at all. Plenty players on each team have played more than him this year and still managed to play better golf and win points.  Woods just didn't look interested, time he retired from the competition for the sake of the US. 7 matches in a row and he's won none.


Agree with supes, plus he could always have stood down and allowed Furyk to choose a replacement. He's been good at Vice Captain, but was a passenger this week as a player.
It seems Phil takes being the pantomime clown in good spirit and doesn't take quite so much umbrage (from media/fans as well) in being benched as Woods who must intimidate his Captains. Even his press conference performance was all about him, how knackered he is. Some teammate . . . . . . . .


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Post by wiretapper on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:22 pm

Has Butch just retired?

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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:23 pm

wiretapper wrote:Has Butch just retired?

No, but he looks like a corpse.

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Post by wiretapper on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:24 pm

David Livingstone as well

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Post by NedB-H on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:36 pm

Problem is, if either of them is in any sort of form they get a clamour going to be given a pick. So if the captain overlooks them, whoever does go has the pressure of “picked ahead of Tiger and Phil”.

Imagine if Woods hadn’t been given a pick. Schauffele or Kisner would’ve turned up in Paris off the back of the Tour championship with the whole world questioning why they were there. They wouldn’t have stood a chance.

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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:43 pm

Where's the pressure though when those two have two of the worst records in US history?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:43 pm

I agree with that, Ned.
But Woods could've (should've?) stood down if he was exhausted - which would have been perfectly understandable. He never looks like he relishes the RC, always looks as if he'd prefer to be somewhere else.
Oh well, all's well that ends well.

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Post by pedro on Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:41 pm

super_realist wrote:Pedro, you forgot Arch Deacon Simpson. I thought he was going to be dreadful, but he was excellent.
Sorry sups, you’re right, forgot about him. He played well. Especially his putting was great.

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Post by beninho on Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:02 pm

Was the course set up for the home team or is it just how the course is?

So glad noren rolled the monster on the last. I think there is some good relationships between both teams, hopefully all having a good night!

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Post by pedro on Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:17 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:pedro,
Very interested to hear what you made of the Friday / Saturday on-the-spot experience.
For starters, from my armchair in June, watching the Open de France, I thought the course would be poorly suited. But this week it looked fantastic, conditioning, set-up, fans the whole lot - just brilliant the way the place was transformed.

Also think the US were pretty generous in defeat, Woods and, arguably DeChambeau (who never really seemed to me to "get it") excepted.
First of all, having been to the RC there’s no need to ever attend any other golf tournament. As Frankie Molinari would say it was truly amazing. The stadium course layout is ideal for a RC, and despite massive crowds you could usually find a good spot to watch the action. Very few trees on Le Golf National but lots of exiting holes due to the undulating fws and green layouts (many elevated tees or greens, and greens surrounded by water). Personally I like a lot of water on a golf course and this course delivers. Too bad we didn’t see more of hole 18. Most par 3s had steep hills surrounding them producing great viewing and stadium like atmosphere, with lots of chanting. Must have intimidated the Americans.

Atmosphere was great on Friday early morning but the gas went a bit out of the balloon on the back 9 of the Friday morning session. I was on hole 1-2, 8, 11, 12 and we seemed to command these holes pretty well. It was like being at a football match. But the Americans turned it around on holes 13-18, of which most are on the far corner of the course, with fewer spectators.

When the Friday foursomes came along the party started again. Maybe it was also due to conditions changing. Absolutely no wind in the morning but it really picked up around noon. I think it favoured the better ball strikers on the European team. Luckily the wind stayed up for the rest of the week.

Also, nobody around me understood why Bubba and Phil were in the foursomes, and surely they didn’t deliver. Phil seemed uninspired and Bubba a bit shaky. Obviously Furyk wanted to play all on day 1, but in hindsight maybe he should have done like TB and played the question marks in the morning fourballs? The foursomes isn’t where you gamble. Anyway, in general, a lot of shortish putts were missed from the Americans, in both sessions.

Also, playing the French Open here must have been an advatage for us. I truly hope they shift the Italian Open to Marco Simone so we get a bit of experience playing there. Do you guys know?

All in all a fantastic experience. I recommend you all to consider Rome in 4 years, even if you can just go for one day. Think tickets were 180 €. Then add travel/accomodation of course.

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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:35 pm

Why did Woods not follow team uniform? He had black trousers on, others had white, he did the same yesterday ditching the pin stripe troos.  Tells you all you need to know about how he feels about being part of a team.

Maybe he didn't want his pipe cleaner legs exposed in silhouette.


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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:39 pm

super_realist wrote:Why did Woods not follow team uniform? He had black trousers on, others had white. Tells you all you need to know about how he feels about being part of a team.

He wore his rain gear yesterday as he didn't want to be seen wearing those ghastly Phil-like striped strides. Looked like the same thing today, but couldn't tell for sure.

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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:40 pm

What a plank. That's exactly why you shouldn't pick him. If you can't toe even the smallest of team normalities, how can you be expected to play as part of a team.

There wasn't a threat of rain all week, and by the time he was out, it wasn't exactly cold.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:46 pm

Cheers pedro,
I've been to a few but back when one was able to follow a match almost all the way round the course - that was one of the reasons I didn't fancy LGN but in retrospect those days are probably long gone, plus the mounding helped deliver stadium golf par excellence.

Hope it inspires some French men & women to take up the game.


They're having a spot of bother with the course in Italy aren't they?

No sign of any dissent coming from the American camp yet, imagine Furyk is a well-respected Captain.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:59 pm

What do Graham DeLaet, Henrik Stenson, Marc Leishman, Jhonny Vegas, Graeme McDowell and Thorbjorn Olesen all have in common?

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Post by super_realist on Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:08 pm

Are they all smokers Kwini?

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Post by Just John on Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:15 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:What do Graham DeLaet, Henrik Stenson, Marc Leishman, Jhonny Vegas, Graeme McDowell and Thorbjorn Olesen all have in common?

They’ve all beaten Jordan Spieth, either in RC, or a President’s Cup

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:24 pm

Just John wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:What do Graham DeLaet, Henrik Stenson, Marc Leishman, Jhonny Vegas, Graeme McDowell and Thorbjorn Olesen all have in common?

They’ve all beaten Jordan Spieth, either in RC, or a President’s Cup

Ale clap Ale clap Ale clap

Yup, 0 - 6 in singles.

PS: And you all know the last player to be beaten by Tiger Woods in Ryder Cup play . . . . . . . some stiff called Molinari - revenge must be extra sweet for Frankie.

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Post by pedro on Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:19 pm

Once the US get rid of RC deadbeats like TW, Phil and Bubba they are in a good position. They have loads of young promising players (w/o scar tissue) waiting in line. JT, Spieth, Rickie and Koepka could easily be the backbone for the next decade.

We may have seen the last of Sergio, Stenson and Poulter, but this years rookies look promising as future stalwarts.

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Post by NedB-H on Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:02 am

The danger for the US is that they just get lumbered with a new generation of team play deadbeats if they lose any more. Fowler has an abysmal Ryder Cup record, 3-7-5. Dustin isn’t a huge amount better. Spieth has a good record with either Thomas or Reed, but a dreadful singles record. Reed can be allowed one bad year, and Thomas played well this time admittedly.

The crux of the Tiger/Phil problem is the failure to accept that great tour players may not be the best team players. Europe are finding that with McIlroy, and Poulter is evidence of the reverse. USA have a perfect team format player in Simpson, very steady tee to green and a lethal putter, but this week and at Gleneagles he got ignored for the big names. Likewise Finau, his CV of top tens everywhere suggests someone better suited to adapting to an unfamiliar course than a lot of their team, but he was underused. If they keep relying on Johnson, Fowler etc to get points because they’re the high profile players, I think they’ll keep struggling.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:39 am

pedro / Ned,
Completely agree - incongruous that Bubba won the WGC-MatchPlay, but can't do too much right in the Ryder Cup, Woods too of course.

They'll kid themselves with the narrative of home course advantage and Europe-makes-the-most-putts, but that's a load of b0ll0cks, they mostly fail to play as a team, and can't get over the fact that accuracy is as much a core competency as hitting it out of sight.

And: When will they own up to the reality that Fowler is a career under-achiever?

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Post by Diggers on Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:36 am

Kwini, where is “they”? And how would you like a statement like that announced. How do you define underachiever (does RC really come into a career being judged, I wouldn’t give it more than a passing consideration). You can only under achieve if you had specific targets, so what were Ricky’s, bearing in mind he’s 29?

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Post by super_realist on Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:55 am

Fowler is up against stiff competition in Rev Boredan and Thomas which makes him look worse than he is, he's certainly suffered from 3 round-itis though and he's blown many a good position, so he could certainly work on that.

Bjorn had a masterstroke in setting up the course to suit course management and shot making, something America have never really understood in favour of bashing it and hoping to hit a fairway, it will be interesting to see if they learn anything from this match for setting up Whistling Straits.

If US are to succeed, they need to bin the self centred, non team player, show pony Woods, and retire Mickelson. They're simply terrible, but you'd think they'll cave into media pressure and play them for purely commercial reasons.

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Post by pedro on Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:42 am

Rumours out that not everyone was happy with the Spieth/Reed split. Apparantly it was Spieth who wanted to play with JT.

You can't argue argue against the Spieth-JT pairing, but you certaintly can against the Reed-Tiger. On paper Reed-Tiger makes sense to some degree, but Tiger just looked so worn out and seemed to suck all energy out of Reed. I was there at the practise session Thursday and Tiger just looked toast already there. And obvioulsy also the rest of the week.

Furyk should take some blame for playing Tiger 3 times in the first two days as it was evident he was tired, just as he should take some blame for playing Bubba and Phil in the Friday foursomes. At least he did man up and bench Phil afterwards. IMO Tiger is not a foursomes player either so he should have been played in the two fourballs only.

Yes, hindsight is wonderful. But tbh there was never any doubt who would play the European foursomes: Sergio, Noren, Molinari, Tommy, Rose, Stenson, Poulter are all superior balls strikers so that was a shoe in. Only the pairings were a bit up in the air. And then Rory, who seems to get all 5 sessions every time.

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Post by super_realist on Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:48 am

pedro wrote:Rumours out that not everyone was happy with the Spieth/Reed split. Apparantly it was Spieth who wanted to play with JT.

You can't argue argue against the Spieth-JT pairing, but you certaintly can against the Reed-Tiger. On paper Reed-Tiger makes sense to some degree, but Tiger just looked so worn out and seemed to suck all energy out of Reed. I was there at the practise session Thursday and Tiger just looked toast already there. And obvioulsy also the rest of the week.

Furyk should take some blame for playing Tiger 3 times in the first two days as it was evident he was tired, just as he should take some blame for playing Bubba and Phil in the Friday foursomes. At least he did man up and bench Phil afterwards. IMO Tiger is not a foursomes player either so he should have been played in the two fourballs only.

Yes, hindsight is wonderful. But tbh there was never any doubt who would play the European foursomes: Sergio, Noren, Molinari, Tommy, Rose, Stenson, Poulter are all superior balls strikers so that was a shoe in. Only the pairings were a bit up in the air. And then Rory, who seems to get all 5 sessions every time.

You can argue against every Woods pairing, so you can't really blame Reed. Woods has had something like 15 different partners (golf partners that is). You'd think Woods was the problem here.

The Woods "tired" excuse doesn't hold water. Plenty players played more than Woods did, and plenty more have had busier years and just as busy finishes to the season.


Woods has no excuse, he's just not into the Ryder Cup, you can see it in his body language, you can see it in his lack of commitment to the team and you can see it in how abjectly he plays when he's not doing it for himself. USA would be mad to include him next time. 7 losses on the bounce.

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