Southgate's England and the next England manager

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 02 Oct 2016, 1:33 pm

First topic message reminder :

Get to close the Allardyce thread in record time, now caretaker manager Southgate has a chance to stake his claim for the job, whilst we all discuss almost anyone else as the thought of Southgate worries many.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 03 Dec 2018, 1:45 pm

Portugal v Switzerland Weds June 5
Holland v England Thurs June 6
Final and third place play-off (yes, really) on June 9

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 03 Dec 2018, 1:55 pm

Would have perhaps preferred the first semi-final, to get the maximum amount of rest and preparation, but it's a minor quibble. Nice to play the Dutch - the two haven't played in a competitive game for 23 years next June.

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Post by compelling and rich on Mon 03 Dec 2018, 5:29 pm

Duty281 wrote:Would have perhaps preferred the first semi-final, to get the maximum amount of rest and preparation, but it's a minor quibble. Nice to play the Dutch - the two haven't played in a competitive game for 23 years next June.

and what a game it was!

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Post by alfie on Tue 04 Dec 2018, 11:31 pm

Blimey it has been 23 years ! Amazing how they've kept missing each other ...England sometimes seem to have played Croatia every other week Smile

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Post by Afro on Thu 14 Feb 2019, 9:58 am

How quickly does Rice get the call from England now.

I like the look of him, and could bring that bit of dynamism to the CM roles that we currently lack with Dier/Henderson, so personally I'd be getting him in to take a look asap.
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Post by Afro on Thu 14 Feb 2019, 9:59 am

alfie wrote:Blimey it has been 23 years !  Amazing how they've kept missing each other ...England sometimes seem to have played Croatia every other week Smile

There was a period where it was like that with the Dutch. And Poland. We seemed to play Poland every set of qualifiers in the 90s
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 14 Feb 2019, 11:17 pm

Afro wrote:How quickly does Rice get the call from England now.

I like the look of him, and could bring that bit of dynamism to the CM roles that we currently lack with Dier/Henderson, so personally I'd be getting him in to take a look asap.
Should be immediately, he’s the best central midfielder we’ve got.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 12:38 am

Goalkeepers:
Jordan Pickford, Jack Butland, Tom Heaton

Defenders:
Trent Alexander Arnold, Ben Chilwell, Michael Keane, Harry Maguire, Danny Rose, Luke Shaw, John Stones, James Tarkowski, Kieran Trippier, Kyle Walker

Midfielders:
Ross Barkley, Dele Alli, Fabian Delph, Eric Dier, Jordan Henderson, Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Declan Rice

Forwards:
Harry Kane, Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho, Raheem Sterling, Callum Wilson

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 12:41 am

Hopefully Rice goes straight into the starting XI.

Could argue Southgate has been a little kind to Butland, RLC, Delph, Trippier, Keane and Tarkowski.

Probably a little too soon in Gareth's eyes for Ward-Prowse, whilst I still think Will Hughes is being mugged not getting in that squad with a couple of those midfielders around. Angus Gunn, Wan-Bissaka and a couple others are in and around things, but it may be a little too early for Southgate to jettison some of the lads who have played so well for him.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 8:12 am

Having essentially four defensive midfielders in Rice, Dier, Henderson and Delph is stupid
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 9:44 am

Well, if he's playing 4-2-3-1, he's got 2 deeper midfielders and that means he's got 2 and cover for both (or can play different players in different games).

Just to reiterate, Rice should be starting.

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Post by Beer on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 10:13 am

Dolph,

As a West Ham fan, I was just wondering if you think Rice should start for England or not? Not sure i've seen your thoughts on it?

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 11:38 am

I’ve heard tell that I’m sending mixed messages, so I’ll make my stance clear:

He’s our best central midfielder (in terms of a real one, not an attacking midfielder) and has to play.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 Mar 2019, 6:45 pm

England: Pickford, Walker, Maguire, Keane, Chilwell, Dier, Henderson, Alli, Sancho, Sterling, Kane.
Subs: Trippier, Heaton, Rose, Tarkowski, Rice, Ward-Prowse, Barkley, Wilson, Hudson-Odoi, Butland.

Good to see Sancho getting a start. Electric attacking three. Plenty of width. The Czechs are probably the toughest opponents in England's group, but on paper they look a very average side.

The road to Wem-ber-lee begins. Only 478 days until the final of Euro 2020.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 Mar 2019, 9:42 pm

5-0 England. Absolute cruise against a pathetic opposition who didn't want to do anything.

The hype machine will start to crank into overdrive at this rate.

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Post by dummy_half on Fri 22 Mar 2019, 10:17 pm

I thought the scoreline was a bit better than the performance, although as Duty says above, the Czechs showed little inclination to do anything but negate England.

First goal was an excellent pass from Kane and good goal-scorer's poaching from Sterling. Really a Gary Lineker type of goal, which is no bad thing for Sterling, getting in to the 6 yard box.

Penalty was a bit soft - Sterling wasn't beating the keeper to the ball, but the defenders did chop him off.

Third again was good play and a confident finish from Sterling. The sort of chance he was missing 6 months ago, but a couple of international goals and improving self-confidence make a big difference.

Forth was a good build up and then a lucky deflection.

5th - nice work from Hudson-Odoi, who looked at home at this level, and then a howler from the defender to turn the rebound inside the post.

We'll have games where we play better and only score a couple. The good thing though was that we had enough creativity and guile to score against a negative opponent - something we have at times struggled with.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Mar 2019, 10:25 pm

Dier getting injured and Barkley coming on was a blessing in disguise - don't need two DMs in a game against a side like this who are clearly coming to sit in and defend. Hopefully Southgate learns it should be one of Dier/Henderson in these games, not both.

Sterling, Sancho, Barkley, Alli, Kane all had decent to good games - as Dummy says Hudson Odoi looked decent coming off the bench too. We really do have some damn good attacking players both playing and coming through
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 10:15 am

Does he play a team together for qualifiers that wins these games but doesn't prepare the team for what they'll need?

They will need two defensive-minded midfielders against good teams, so Rice/Dier and then Henderson/Barkley would seem the play. Rice and Winks could work, but seems like a harder runner like Henderson would be good alongside a Rice.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 2:38 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Does he play a team together for qualifiers that wins these games but doesn't prepare the team for what they'll need?

They will need two defensive-minded midfielders against good teams, so Rice/Dier and then Henderson/Barkley would seem the play. Rice and Winks could work, but seems like a harder runner like Henderson would be good alongside a Rice.

Why do they need two DMs even against the “good” sides?
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 2:57 pm

Well, I suppose first problem is the term DM, really. I don’t think Henderson and Dier/Rice play similarly, Henderson certainly wouldn’t play as deep as either partner there. So any pairing would leave you with one “DM” and another who is more your natural “CM” fit. I think we need a holder and a worker.

The reason for that is, at the moment at least, it would appear we’re gonna have 4 attacking talents up top who don’t wanna do a lot of defending if the first press is beaten. Sterling, Rashford, Sancho, Alli, Lingard - it’ll be 4 from them, it seems, and only the latter two are gonna get involved a bit deeper defensively without it negating a lot of what they do.

We also have full backs that are generally better going forward and huge parts of our arsenal too.

Add in that arguably the weakest area of our team is centre back, you’d want good protection. Having a holder and a link man who is a harder working, that gives a good protection.

Further to that, we aren’t the finished article by any means and shouldn’t get arrogant to think we just go gung ho and teams will be terrified of us. This isn’t a side as good as Man City, who generally get away with letting Fernandinho do anything to anchor.

Generally, a good 4-2-3-1 has two in there with some defensive nous. I don’t think Barkley has it, nor am I sure he’s so good he needs to be included. Winks might be a more progressive Henderson in terms of passing.

However, Henderson and Rice would be a good combo of players who don’t just pass sideways. I would put that as another reason Rice goes in above Dier: he passes forward with either foot very willingly.

As such, without an altogether outstanding alternative to it, I think the best route is with two in there. I don’t know whether you’re assuming I mean two sitters - I don’t. But we had to go into the World Cup with a back five, got our pants pulled down by Croatia’s far superior midfield and whilst we have developed further, we aren’t the best team in Europe.

Even the world champions sacrificed a bit of flair to put in Matuidi, who whilst not a central midfielder, was used to add solidity. That’s in a team that had Pogba rather than someone like Barkley and also Kante, who is possibly 3 people. Play to our strengths by giving them a platform to play on

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 6:45 pm

England: Pickford, Walker, Keane, Maguire, Rose, Rice, Barkley, Alli, Hudson-Odoi, Sterling, Kane.

Henderson/Dier/Sancho all taken out of the first XI due to injury. Rose also replaces Chilwell.

Montenegro have been awkward opponents for England in the past, but their recent record in international football is dismal.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 8:35 pm

Easy enough for England. Alli and Barkley's attacking movement is excellent. Plenty of width. Few lapses in concentration from the defence. Otherwise fine. If England can be bothered, they'll rack up 4 or 5.

Thank goodness this qualifying campaign is only 8 games, rather than the usual 10.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 9:37 pm

And it was 5. Henderson added some impetus against a stale and despondent Montenegrin defence. No more qualifiers for six months - England have to win a major tournament (kinda) in the meantime.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 27 Apr 2019, 12:31 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/26/harry-kane-champions-league-final-mauricio-pochettino-tottenham-spurs

Kane might just be fit for the Nations League in the summer.

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