Connacht v Ulster

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Connacht v Ulster

Post by neilthom7 on Mon 03 Oct 2016, 7:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

Connacht Rugby v Ulster Rugby

Friday 7th October 2016, 19:35 Kick Off
Sportsground, Galway
Live on TG4 and BBC NI

Team News
Connacht
(15-9): Tiernan O’Halloran, Niyi Adeolokun, Bundee Aki, Craig Ronaldson, Cian Kelleher, Jack Carty, Caolin Blade
(1-8): Finlay Bealham, Dave Heffernan, Conor Carey, Ultan Dillane, Andrew Browne, Eoin McKeon, Jake Heenan, John Muldoon (captain)
Replacements:

(16-23): Shane Delahunt, Ronan Loughney, JP Cooney, Lewis Stevenson, James Connolly, Stephen Kerins, Stacey Ili

Ulster
(15-9): J Payne (C); T Bowe, L Ludik, D Cave, C Gilroy; P Jackson, P Marshall;
(1-8): C Black, R Best, R Ah You, R Diack, P Browne, I Henderson, C Ross, R Wilson;

Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, R Kane, K Treadwell, S Reidy, D Shanahan, B Herron, R Lyttle

So it's a big Irish derby this weekend with plenty of significance for both teams even if it's early in the season.  Both teams will want to launch in their respective European campaigns with a win here.  Ulster arrive unbeaten league leaders and coming off the back of a hard fought win v Ospreys and will look to remain top going into the European matches. Connacht on the other hand endured a torrid start to the season with 3 losses in a row punctuated only by a postponed match, however they finally got some traction with a win over Edinburgh in round 5 and will look to build on that with this home interpro.


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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by SecretFly on Thu 06 Oct 2016, 5:49 pm

Niyi Adeolokun is one of the first Irish players coming through the right way in my eyes.  He's lived most of his life in Ireland, he's grown into a man here, his rugby was learned here, it's his home without any shadow of a doubt.  I think he's potentially a wonderful addition the Irish side.  Excited about the possibilities.  

I've always been patiently waiting for the children of our immigrant population to mature and perhaps some of them start coming into sport - particularly rugby.
This is the way it should be and we now have a diverse population where if the IRFU engaged and encouraged, we wouldn't have to wait for or take in players with the specific qualities we're always looking for, but create them here.  
Niyi has a natural right to an Irish shirt.  But I am on the side of tightening up the three year rule or even outlawing that route into International altogether.  I love our foreign born Internationals because they play with heart and soul... but ideally, we have to protect Nations from having their players hoovered up by the International player market.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Thu 06 Oct 2016, 5:50 pm

To be honest, and please don't jump down my throat because this is NOT a criticism of anyone or aimed at anyone, but I think thats a race thing. I don't think anyone would question an English guy who's been here since 10 playing for Ireland.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Thu 06 Oct 2016, 5:50 pm

SecretFly wrote:Niyi Adeolokun is one of the first Irish players coming through the right way in my eyes.  He's lived most of his life in Ireland, he's grown into a man here, his rugby was learned here, it's his home without any shadow of a doubt.  I think he's potentially a wonderful addition the Irish side.  Excited about the possibilities.  

I've always been patiently waiting for the children of our immigrant population to mature and perhaps some of them start coming into sport - particularly rugby.
This is the way it should be and we now have a diverse population where if the IRFU engaged and encouraged, we wouldn't have to wait for or take in players with the specific qualities we're always looking for, but create them here.

OK

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by wolfball on Thu 06 Oct 2016, 6:49 pm

Notch wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Niyi Adeolokun is one of the first Irish players coming through the right way in my eyes.  He's lived most of his life in Ireland, he's grown into a man here, his rugby was learned here, it's his home without any shadow of a doubt.  I think he's potentially a wonderful addition the Irish side.  Excited about the possibilities.  

I've always been patiently waiting for the children of our immigrant population to mature and perhaps some of them start coming into sport - particularly rugby.
This is the way it should be and we now have a diverse population where if the IRFU engaged and encouraged, we wouldn't have to wait for or take in players with the specific qualities we're always looking for, but create them here.

OK

Agreed, well said. Also my sister at UL fancies the arse off him. censored

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Munchkin on Thu 06 Oct 2016, 7:09 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:
wolfball wrote:On the wider chat on gutting Connacht, I think as long as Lam stays we will be in ok nick. He inspires his players enough currently that we may even get a couple of excellent players come our way. The big problem with COnnacht is Galway is a tiny city. And even alot of born and bred connacht players aren't from there, but around the province. So while there are clear advantages to the city life of Dublin/Belfast/Cork/Limerick, Galway's tiny size isn't as compelling for young lads full of fire and fun. That is honestly why i think Henshaw went to Dublin (and can't blame him). If Marmion wants to go, then he will go. I will be sickened, but he has given his all to Connacht and respect him.

On tomorrow's game, we have an uncapped 9 on the bench and a starting 9 with 2 seasons under his belt... Strange that ulster fans think we have an advantage at 9. I would say we have maybe 5 players who would make the starting lineup, despite Ulster losing so many of their 723 centre options to injury. I think we might scrape by with a2 point win or Ulster will blow us out of the water.

Paul Marshall is much maligned, at least in part because he's not Pienaar. He's quite capable of having good games, occasionally even a great game. Ulster fans forget how much of the each season Pienaar has regularly missed, because he played in the 4N/RWC etc. If Marshall were as poor as we make out, we would never get to the business end of the season with anything to play for. He's better than Duncan Williams, TOL, Blade and Kerins.

Think that's fair comment. Marshall gets a hard time because we know what a world class scrummy looks like. That said; we will need to develop/ship in someone who offers more than Marshall if we are genuine in wanting to compete for silverware.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Artful_Dodger on Thu 06 Oct 2016, 7:52 pm

http://www.the42.ie/ulster-injury-update-mccloskey-piutau-3012675-Oct2016/

No McCloskey, Marshall or van der Merwe for Bordeux Begles. I didn't realize McCloskey and Marshall were as bad as this...McCloskey around 2 months away.

Herbst four to five weeks away, will we be able to bring him into the CC squad?

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by profitius on Thu 06 Oct 2016, 7:55 pm

wolfball wrote:
Kingshu wrote:I wonder if Ulster can afford to buy Harts contact out, i doubt it.

Also with Niyi Adeolokun being called up to charlton house, he's a great player and not a project Player, but I still think I would have preferred him to line out for Nigeria.

Same with Tim Visser and the Netherlands (although he was a project).

I just feel that in terms of promoting rugby worldwide, these players could be superstars in thier National team.

Actually it would be different with Adeolokun as if he became NIQ, it would effect his chances of getting a new contract.

tough spot to be in actually, and with Visser he may not have got the professional contract if he didn't express intrest in playing for Scotland.

Think this throws a few more things to discuss, and think about.

I really hate the project player dyanmic also but to bring up Niyi in that context is strange. Niyi has lived in ireland since he was 10... He learned to play rugby in Ireland. Far from a project player, and closer to saying Heaslip should play for Israel...


Its not at all closer. Theres a world of difference unless you completely ignore a persons ancestors.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Kingshu on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 3:28 am

Notch wrote:To be honest, and please don't jump down my throat because this is NOT a criticism of anyone or aimed at anyone, but I think thats a race thing. I don't think anyone would question an English guy who's been here since 10 playing for Ireland.

Its not a race thng at all, its a tier thing.
He's completly entitled to an Ireland shirt, just as much as Faltau is to a Welsh one.
I just think world rugby may be better served if some player's instead of getting a handful of caps for a tier one nation got 100+ caps for a tier 2 or 3 nation.
Its why i mentioned Visser as well (to try not to make it a race issue, but the project player then gets confused in).
If he was English then it wouldn't matter because its another tier 1 nation, but say he was Spanish then, I'd say the same, better for world rugby and the development of rugby in Spain if they had a Pro 12 champion lining up with them every game, than for Ireland a number of times.

Again though it would be hard for a player to do that, he may find that Connacht wouldnt renew his contact , and in the Visser example he may not have got the Edinburgh deal and may not have made it as a professional if he played for the Netherlands.

Its not to often you see a player in the Pro 12 playing for a tier 2 team never mind 3. I just think it would be great if some of these teams had a top class player.


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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Kingshu on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 3:36 am

wolfball wrote:
Kingshu wrote:I wonder if Ulster can afford to buy Harts contact out, i doubt it.

Also with Niyi Adeolokun being called up to charlton house, he's a great player and not a project Player, but I still think I would have preferred him to line out for Nigeria.

Same with Tim Visser and the Netherlands (although he was a project).

I just feel that in terms of promoting rugby worldwide, these players could be superstars in thier National team.

Actually it would be different with Adeolokun as if he became NIQ, it would effect his chances of getting a new contract.

tough spot to be in actually, and with Visser he may not have got the professional contract if he didn't express intrest in playing for Scotland.

Think this throws a few more things to discuss, and think about.

I really hate the project player dyanmic also but to bring up Niyi in that context is strange. Niyi has lived in ireland since he was 10... He learned to play rugby in Ireland. Far from a project player, and closer to saying Heaslip should play for Israel...

I wasnt saying he was a project player, even stated thats hes not.
He may not be a prime example, but the overall jest is that it would be better for Rugby world wide if some players who can play for Tier 2 or 3 nations did that instead of winning a handful of caps with a tier one nation, of serving 3 years to qualify for one.

However to do that, the player would have to give up a lot and even risk not making it as a professional rugby player, which just doesn't sit right. We should be making it easier for them to play for the smaller nations, not harder.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 9:29 am

Artful_Dodger wrote:http://www.the42.ie/ulster-injury-update-mccloskey-piutau-3012675-Oct2016/

No McCloskey, Marshall or van der Merwe for Bordeux Begles.  I didn't realize McCloskey and Marshall were as bad as this...McCloskey around 2 months away.

Herbst four to five weeks away, will we be able to bring him into the CC squad?

I do hope McCloskey's foot problem is a straight-forward one. I hope I'm not being a jinx but the foot is one of the most complex parts of the body to heal correctly especially in an athlete.
The nice thing is we have the cover at the moment to put out a formidable backline. The terrible thing is we're only a few knocks away from starting an 'Ulster injury Crisis' thread...

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 10:54 am

Kingshu wrote:
Notch wrote:To be honest, and please don't jump down my throat because this is NOT a criticism of anyone or aimed at anyone, but I think thats a race thing. I don't think anyone would question an English guy who's been here since 10 playing for Ireland.

Its not a race thng at all, its a tier thing.
He's completly entitled to an Ireland shirt, just as much as Faltau is to a Welsh one.
I just think world rugby may be better served if some player's instead of getting a handful of caps for a tier one nation got 100+ caps for a tier 2 or 3 nation.
Its why i mentioned Visser as well (to try not to make it a race issue, but the project player then gets confused in).
If he was English then it wouldn't matter because its another tier 1 nation, but say he was Spanish then, I'd say the same, better for world rugby and the development of rugby in Spain if they had a Pro 12 champion lining up with them every game, than for Ireland a number of times.

Again though it would be hard for a player to do that, he may find that Connacht wouldnt renew his contact , and in the Visser example he may not have got the Edinburgh deal and may not have made it as a professional if he played for the Netherlands.

Its not to often you see a player in the Pro 12 playing for a tier 2 team never mind 3. I just think it would be great if some of these teams had a top class player.


Yeah I know. I get what you're saying, I really do. But as you say, I don't think its fair on him to say he should consider trading a stable career as a pro rugby player to play amateur rugby on another continent. You're right to point out what that would mean for him in terms of gaining NIQ status and how that would impact his chances of getting a contract renewal and even remaining a professional rugby player.

I just think the more important point is that this is where he first picked up a rugby ball- this is his home if he wants it to be. He's a permanent resident here. As far as I'm concerned, if you've been living here that long you're entitled to call yourself Irish. I just feel the debate should be centred on players from smaller countries who move in their late teens or early twenties OK

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by neilthom7 on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 11:01 am

I think the debate should entirely centre on what he actually wants but we don't know that? H emay want to play for Nigeria in which case I agree with the points be made but he could equally want to play for Ireland and see himself as Irish and if that's the case then no-one should try and take that away from him

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by toml on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 3:47 pm

I have a bad feeling that Ulster will be as much use tonight as Steven Woolfe at the European parliament

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by SecretFly on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 3:52 pm

Hookem nailed him before he had his jacket off! ... Moral: never call anybody outside with a righteous flourish of taking your jacket off. Wait patiently until the other guy is taking his off.

What that says about the Connacht/Ulster game is anybody's guess.........

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by profitius on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 3:58 pm

With much of the focus on the 9s, its interesting to see Kerins on the Connacht bench tonight.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 4:04 pm

profitius wrote:With much of the focus on the 9s, its interesting to see Kerins on the Connacht bench tonight.

What do we know about him? I'm being lazy

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by profitius on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 4:20 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
profitius wrote:With much of the focus on the 9s, its interesting to see Kerins on the Connacht bench tonight.

What do we know about him? I'm being lazy


Played for Ireland U20s in the summer and was very good. He has a good pass and can kick and he also has a good rugby brain.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 4:24 pm

If he plays well can he come back with us?

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by neilthom7 on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 4:32 pm

carpet baboon wrote:If he plays well can he come back with us?

Or sure because we are nice folk here in the north we could take Marmion sou he can get game time just because we are sporting like that

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Munchkin on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:38 pm

Try for Connacht, and conversion.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Munchkin on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:42 pm

Nice to see Jackson kicking his penalty.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:48 pm

Not going at all well. Breakdown a problem but Connacht are pushing the ref. Defence looking shaky out wide.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:50 pm

Already you feel Reidy for Wilson or Diack might make a difference, despite how good a lineout forward Diack is.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Munchkin on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:51 pm

Browne needs to watch his discipline. The ref has him in his sights now.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:51 pm

Peter Browne is an absolute penalty machine here.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:52 pm

If it sounds like we're stating the obvious we are but he is being obvious. Browne is reminding everyone of Ryan Caldwell right now.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Golden on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:55 pm

Great work from Carey at the breakdown and wins the turnover

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:55 pm

Wilson has just gone into passenger mode. Get him off.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Munchkin on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:56 pm

Diack is causing havoc with their lineout, but we really could do with Reidy here. We are so soft at the breakdown. There's no excuse for it. Some of the players need a rocket.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Munchkin on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:57 pm

Marshall picard

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by marty2086 on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:58 pm

Connacht are cute, tackler/support are constantly ending up the wrong side and slowing support getting in but the ref is missing it and Ulster are just leaving themselves too isolated

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:58 pm

Diack, Henderson, Ross and Browne all just carrying not rucking effectively. Wilson the same without the carrying.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 7:59 pm

Munchkin wrote:Marshall picard

We all know what he's like behind a retreating pack.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:01 pm

marty2086 wrote:Connacht are cute, tackler/support are constantly ending up the wrong side and slowing support getting in but the ref is missing it and Ulster are just leaving themselves too isolated

Yep. Admire Connacht for that. They know exactly how to play it.

Also very noticeable that when they clear a man out they are going 2 or 3 yards past the ball.

We look like we'll be lucky to not concede a couple more tries before we pull ourselves together

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Munchkin on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:02 pm

Could be a long night.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by marty2086 on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:03 pm

Notch wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Connacht are cute, tackler/support are constantly ending up the wrong side and slowing support getting in but the ref is missing it and Ulster are just leaving themselves too isolated

Yep. Admire Connacht for that. They know exactly how to play it.

Also very noticeable that when they clear a man out they are going 2 or 3 yards past the ball.

We look like we'll be lucky to not concede a couple more tries before we pull ourselves together

Yip did it a phase before the 1st try on Bowe and opened space for Blade to break

But ref does seem inconsistent when a player gets over the ball at the breakdown, gave one earlier almost straight away but Ulster did it twice before the second try but nothing given

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:03 pm

Munchkin wrote:Could be a long night.

Extremely long. It's like watching a U14s team being bullied by a senior team at the breakdown. We are being completely schooled. We need to hook Wilson and maybe even Henderson. I just wish we could sub our whole back five.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Golden on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:04 pm

Some smashing offloading there. Great try hopefully this kick starts their season

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:05 pm

So. Anything good on netflix these days? Erm

guinness guinness guinness guinness guinness
vomit

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:05 pm

Total breakdown here.

Edit: The pun wasn't intended there either.


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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:05 pm

Well.

The champions seem to be back

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by marty2086 on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:06 pm

Golden wrote:Some smashing offloading there. Great try hopefully this kick starts their season

Connacht in full flow are a joy to watch, unless your team are playing them picard

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:07 pm

If anyone sees any Ulster players can you remind them they have a game to play tonight

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:08 pm

What the hell's going on...

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by profitius on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:08 pm

Cracking match so far. Far from over yet.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Munchkin on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:09 pm

I'm going to slap Marshall.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:11 pm

Connacht are so illegal! This is funny. They remind me of Munster of old. We have to make the referee make the decision.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Notch on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:12 pm

Munchkin wrote:I'm going to slap Marshall.

I'm going to help.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by Munchkin on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:12 pm

About time.

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 07 Oct 2016, 8:12 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:What the hell's going on...

Well the lads in green have remembered they won the league last year. The lads in white...... I'm not sure what's happened there

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Re: Connacht v Ulster

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