Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

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Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by George Carlin on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 11:33 am

          
RC Toulonnais v Saracens
Saturday 15 October 2016
KO 16:15 local (15:15 GMT)
Stade Félix Mayol, Toulon

Live on BT Sport / beIN Sports

Referee John Lacey (Ireland)
Touch Judge 1 Mark Patton (Ireland)
Touch Judge 2 Paul Haycock (Ireland)
TMO Simon McDowell (Ireland)
Citing Commissioner Eugene Ryan (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

Played 2, Toulon Won 2, No Draws

B. Recent Form

24 May 2014
RC Toulon 23 - 6 Saracens
Heineken Cup

28 April 2013
Saracens 12-24 RC Toulon
Heineken Cup

C. Teams

RC Toulonnais

15 Leigh Halfpenny, 14 Josua Tuisova, 13 Matt Carraro, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Francois Trinh Duc, 9 Sebastien Tillous-Borde, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe, 6 Charles Ollivon, 5 Mamuka Gorgodze, 4 Samu Manoa, 3 Levan Chilachava, 2 Guilhem Guirado, 1 Florian Fresia

Replacements: 16 Jean-Charles Orioli, 17 Xavier Chiocci, 18 Manasa Saulo, 19 Liam Gill, 20 Mathieu Bastareaud, 21 Pierre Bernard, 22 Eric Escande, 23 Romain Taofifenua

Saracens

15 Alex Goode, 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 Chris Wyles, 10 Owen Farrell, 9 Richard Wigglesworth, 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Jackson Wray, 5 George Kruis, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Juan Figallo, 2 Jamie George, 1 Mako Vunipola

Replacements: 16 Schalk Brits, 17 Richard Barrington, 18 Petrus du Plessis, 19 Jim Hamilton, 20 Michael Rhodes, 21 Ben Spencer, 22 Alex Lozowski, 23 Michael Ellery


Last edited by George Carlin on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 2:19 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 11:36 am

Is that really the best Eva Green pic you could come up with George!!!!

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by George Carlin on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 12:06 pm

I am head of legal now Tiger. NSFW Google searches tend to come at a premium...

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by George Carlin on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 7:10 pm

Nice to see that this match up, with both clubs beloved by so many on these boards, produces such high end banter on these boards.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by yappysnap on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 8:27 pm

Two questions:

1. Who is Saracens avatar?

2. Is there some way that both teams can lose? Preferably with Toulon losing a bit more then Sarries??

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 8:51 pm

1) Keira Knightley
2) Ask Santa

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by yappysnap on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 11:22 pm

How did I not recognise Kiera Knightley?

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by munkian on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 8:39 am

yappysnap wrote:How did I not recognise Kiera Knightley?


Because she isn't doing he standard vacant pout pose.

Back on topic, I hope both teams lose.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 8:52 am

yappysnap wrote:How did I not recognise Kiera Knightley?

It's not been photoshopped ?

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 9:01 am

This looks to be the pick of round 1.
I'm going for Saracens to win by 4 points. Neither side to get a TBP.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by beshocked on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 9:53 am

thebandwagonsociety I actually think that Glasgow-Leicester has more potential to be an exciting game.

I am not expecting this game to be anything other than a dour game. Neither team is overly ambitious in gameplan. Both with huge packs will look to overpower the other.

As a Saracens fans my two hopes are: 1) Not to rush Farrell back into the starting line up (if he's fit stick him on the bench),2) Start George at hooker, when he's the superior hooker these days, much more physical than Brits.

George has already managed to secure two victories from the bench as super sub but I would rather see him playing for 60 and for Brits to take on tired Toulon forwards with 20 to go.

Saints in particular another physical pack managed to rough up Brits but could not do the same to George.


Sadly I think that Mccall will start both Brits and Farrell.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 10:37 am

Brits has started the last couple so it could be in line with Sarries normal rotation policy. Certainly George would appear the better for for the game vs Toulon.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 10:39 am

George has shown he is better than Brits, but it has been sensible for Sarries to rotate, especially as the englishman was in a very heavy session with England last week.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 10:55 am

LondonTiger wrote:George has shown he is better than Brits, but it has been sensible for Sarries to rotate, especially as the englishman was in a very heavy session with England last week.

Of course AWJ is better than both of these guys (in joke)

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 10:59 am

LondonTiger wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:George has shown he is better than Brits, but it has been sensible for Sarries to rotate, especially as the englishman was in a very heavy session with England last week.

Of course AWJ is better than both of these guys (in joke)

But those guys aren't lock forwards so this is clearly off-topic. AWJ is better though.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 11:18 am

As much as there parts of Saracens I'm not fond of, the way they play as a team is fantastic to watch, the commitment to each other and workrate is phenomenal. And the community stuff they do is outstanding.
I could even find myself thinking they ain't that bad.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by beshocked on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 11:19 am

Sam I would have thought that George would have been better for both Saints and Wasps as a starter but obviously Mccall felt differently.

It did work though - it's just George's impact was from the bench.

Of course I agree George is suitable for this game.

Londontiger true rotation is good, I just worry that Mccall genuinely sees Brits still as the no 1 hooker.

Sarries cannot afford to allow Toulon to build a lead.

Regardless of the team, I think every team likes to be in the lead. Sure some are better at chasing but it's a tactic I don't think will work vs Toulon.

I think Sarries were flattered by a weakened Wasps pack. I actually think that despite Sarries being top they've flattered to deceive this season. I want to see more incision and just more all round rugby.

That Wasps team isn't the same as the one that they'll need to face later in the season.

I think the big turning point last season was actually the 2nd half vs Ulster in the ERCC where they attacked with brutal precision to pick up the try bonus away from home in poor conditions.

I would look back to that for inspiration.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 11:40 am

Given how mobile Wasps are the inclusion of Brits seems sensible. He had played on the backrow previously so it looked a good idea to me. Sarries normally rotate and knowing that George was away with England in between those two games the rotation plan makes sense.

Of course LT, AWJ is all conquering and we'd take him every time.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by beshocked on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 11:54 am

Don't think Saracens would ever beat Wasps in mobility, it's power,ruthlessness,the set piece and organisation where Sarries look for the upperhand. Unsurprisingly it's more like SA in execution. George is much more an old school hooker and whilst I used to like more mobile hookers like Brits, I actually like Thacker's quick feet. Even T.Youngs is a nice ball carrier.

Unfortunately smaller, lighter hookers IMO I feel are more vulnerable to being overpowered and bullied.

It's why for England now the chunkier hookers are back in business.

French packs are noticeably huge and it's why George has to start vs Toulon.

Saracens themselves went through a phase of needing their players to get bigger, more powerful and bring in bigger players.
Academy forwards like George and Kruis have become much bigger than they used to be.

Vunipola bros have added noticeable weight.

Schalk Burger is heavier than Jacques Burger.

Has to be one of the physically biggest packs in Europe now.

Hilarious to think about when we had lightweight players like Saull and Borthwick in the pack. Joubert was not a big man.

It's an entirely different beast these days.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 2:10 pm

Beshocked, I'd say that George was bigger than the traditional hooker. If you look at the likes of Cockers and Thompson then George is a much bigger (and more mobile) unit. You don't normally see players of George's size moving like he does.

Interesting that England have gone for George who is an unusually big hooker and then Hartley and LCD who were both looseheads in age grade but who then converted to hooker.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by beshocked on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 2:33 pm

Sam can't say I agree to be honest. Thompson was a very big hooker. Cockerill less so agreed.

I thought Thompson had issues with his throwing at the lineout but was primarily picked for his size and power.

George in terms of weight and size is similar to Hartley. I guess he looks bigger because he doesn't really have a neck anymore.

Not that surprising to me that England are going back to old school with big hookers.

I guess the thing about George is he's had a tendency to surprise the opposition because they don't expect a big lad to do things like do a pinpoint grubber, offload with ease or show a surprising turn of pace.

A hooker's job isn't to score tries but he's got 5 in 6 games this season. Sure I guess you could say they weren't really down to his individual brilliance but to be on the end of it that much it's not a fluke.

He seems to be a good all round hooker who doesn't just do the basics at set piece time but has a lot to his game. Maybe that's why he's used as impact. Wouldn't see Hartley doing the things George can off the bench though he has his strengths.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by propdavid_london on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 9:51 am

Isnt Knightly a Teddington Girl - probably more suitable as a Quins Avatar!
Anyway........Big game coming up. We know that Sarries can front up to the big French units - if they can cut out all errors and keep the score board ticking then I would like to think that they will have enough to come away with a result.
Min requirements away from home is a LBP - but with Toulon seeming to not be firing 100%, Sarries being confident after downing Wasps last weekend - at the moment a win could be on the cards.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:33 pm

Nobody watching this? Sarries are on fire so far

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:36 pm

Two tries so far for Saracens. Leading 3-15

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:38 pm

Saracens doing what Saracens do best. Put the ball in the right area of the pitch and pressure hard. Retrieve the ball and then run hard with the ball carrier always having more than one option to keep the defence guessing. They work so hard and have so many ball carrying options it's hard to stop them. In defence they are just animals.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by beshocked on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:39 pm

Sarries forwards skill levels very high today.

Handling better than many backs!

Got to keep it up.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:40 pm

Toulon are playing like Bath last year. Hmm I wonder why?

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by stub on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:40 pm

Saracens looking superb.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:40 pm

18-3 awsome start

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:42 pm

3-18 lead now.

Toulon aren't in the game right now. Farrell looks comfortable. Hope he doesn't play the full match, though.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:42 pm

Jamie George has to start for England imo

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by beshocked on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:51 pm

Sarries need to refocus.

Toulon stupid not to take 3 points on offer earlier.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:52 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Jamie George has to start for England imo

He's a freak. Size of a prop but gets around like a number 8. Real beast with a surprising burst of pace. Good at both set pieces as well. Hed be the obvious choice and may have jumped Hartley earlier had Hartley not been captain.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:57 pm

Who thinks itojes tackle was high?


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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:00 pm

Fantastic try that one, some great handling

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:04 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Who thinks itojes tackle was high?


Soft one but I've seen them given occasionally. 

Sarries giving a blue print of uncomplicated intense rugby. So clinical. If Toulon don't get aggressive and cut out the errors then they are going to be on the end on an epic hiding. Sarries look like they are cruising and have a gear or two to go if they need them.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by stub on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:06 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Who thinks itojes tackle was high?


I didn't - I thought it was a questionable decision.


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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by stub on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:25 pm

Did Nonu get a yellow?

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by beshocked on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:26 pm

Yes deservedly so.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by stub on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:34 pm

Yes, saw the tackle but missed the punishment!

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by beshocked on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:37 pm

Sarries have gone asleep again. Need to wake up.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by beshocked on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:44 pm

nice gamesmanship from Toulon there - scoring vs 12 men. Disgraceful.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by eirebilly on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:44 pm

Getting tense now...

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by eirebilly on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:46 pm

beshocked wrote:nice gamesmanship from Toulon there - scoring vs 12 men. Disgraceful.

Not watching, just following the score. What happened?

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by beshocked on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:48 pm

Numerous players injured and playing on.

Its not really fair to play on IMO.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by sad_gimp on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:48 pm

eirebilly wrote:
beshocked wrote:nice gamesmanship from Toulon there - scoring vs 12 men. Disgraceful.

Not watching, just following the score. What happened?

There were some Saracens players down during an intense period with Toulon stretching Sarries all over the pitch which ended in a try. I don't see any problem with it at all.

23-28 now.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by BamBam on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:50 pm

Saracens complaining about ethical practices LOL

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by eirebilly on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:51 pm

sad_gimp wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
beshocked wrote:nice gamesmanship from Toulon there - scoring vs 12 men. Disgraceful.

Not watching, just following the score. What happened?

There were some Saracens players down during an intense period with Toulon stretching Sarries all over the pitch which ended in a try. I don't see any problem with it at all.

23-28 now.

I will have to watch the highlights but must say, I am always in favour of ref's making the call to stop play (for injuries) so if he didn't then its game on as far as I am concerned.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by mid_gen on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:52 pm

None of them were serious, probably players blowing apart from anything else, all back on their feet playing. Totally fine.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

Post by beshocked on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:55 pm

Wow 2nd soft YC Lacey has given to Sarries.

Probably has won the game for Toulon with those 2.

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Re: Champions Cup Pool 3: RC Toulon v Saracens, 15 October

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