World Tour Finals

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World Tour Finals

Post by Guest82 on Fri 28 Oct 2016, 12:16 pm

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Is this going to be the worst quality one of all time?

No one is going to be in form, bar Murray, who is starting to look tired.

Djokovic - hasn't played well since RG
Murray - trying to be YE no1 must be tiring him out. To win Vienna and Paris will be his last four tournaments won I think.
Stan - is he ever in form, except for at the business end of the odd slam he wins. Nearly lost to The Donald yesterday.
Raonic - lost to Berankis (who lost to Marcus Willis at Wimbledon) this week.
Nishikori - probably in the next best form after Murray.
Monfils - Injured. Last seen losing to Gastao Elias.
Thiem - hasn't played well since before Wimbledon. Burn out/injury. Lost to Troicki in his home tournament.
Berdych - lost to Basilashvili this week.

Goffin - lost early, although to Delpo, this week.
Cilic - probably a bit far back.

I've got tickets too!

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:04 pm

It feels like it may be a bridge too far for Murray tomorrow certainly. Djokovic looks to have found a bit more motivation in trying to regain the n°1 ranking for YE, while Murray has looked rather knackered this week. Then again, I've felt that way probably since Paris, where he also looked not particularly fresh, and he won that, and has kept winning this week. So you never know, the winning habit and all that...

I do feel it's crucial that he starts well tomorrow, even today Djokovic was making a few errors, and if Murray can stay with him on the scoreboard or get ahead you do wonder if the doubts of the last few months will start creeping back in.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Jermaine2015 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:34 pm

Djokovic was imperious and playing like the true world #1. Murray's been beating the lesser likes such as Tsonga, Dimitrov, Bautista Agut and Isner. Djokovic is a total different level and coupled with the knowledge Murray is the Serb's Bitch. Djokovic in straight sets.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Born Slippy on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:53 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:It feels like it may be a bridge too far for Murray tomorrow certainly. Djokovic looks to have found a bit more motivation in trying to regain the n°1 ranking for YE, while Murray has looked rather knackered this week. Then again, I've felt that way probably since Paris, where he also looked not particularly fresh, and he won that, and has kept winning this week. So you never know, the winning habit and all that...

I do feel it's crucial that he starts well tomorrow, even today Djokovic was making a few errors, and if Murray can stay with him on the scoreboard or get ahead you do wonder if the doubts of the last few months will start creeping back in.
Murray looks shattered and I think he's also struggling with his shoulder. His serve was lacking any real sting today. I think it will be something like 64 62 to Novak. Good tournament for Andy though. He will be within 500 points even if he loses and, with Nole defending everything at the start of the year, he's given himself a great shot at getting back to number 1 early next year.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Henman Bill on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:21 pm

I was going to come on here and say Djokovic is favourite as well. Many reasons tiredness, form and record at the tournament. Don't write Murray off though.

There's still the factor of the last few months form.

I'd make it 60/40 Djoko.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Henman Bill on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:24 pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again, they need an extra rest day between semi and final.

How about a special Friday night session of 2 singles, one at 6.30pm and one at 9pm.

And a Friday day session of both doubles.

And a special match on Saturday with up and coming young players, old timers etc.

Normally playing consecutive days in 3-set matches is OK but the WTF has that end of season tiredness factor, and the competition is always top players, consistently gruelling to get to the final.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:41 pm

Jermaine2015 wrote:Djokovic was imperious and playing like the true world #1. Murray's been beating the lesser likes such as Tsonga, Dimitrov, Bautista Agut and Isner. Djokovic is a total different level and coupled with the knowledge Murray is the Serb's Bitch. Djokovic in straight sets.

Umm, Murray has been labouring this tournament, but he has just beaten 4 top 10 players in a row. Your comment seems about a week out of date. Agree though that Novak's form is starting to look ominous.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 12:18 am

Incredible grit from Andy. Has looked out of sorts all tournament, but has still mustered a run to the final. I fear that the showdown with Nole will prove a bridge too far, but, if he does prevail, few will doubt that he will have earned the year end number one.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Danny_1982 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 9:35 am

I must admit I feel a little robbed of a great occasion tonight. The top two in a shootout for year end number 1, in the back yard of the guy trying to achieve it for the first time... but in reality, having twice broke the record for longest BO3 match in ATP finals in 4 days, I struggle to see how Andy can beat a comparatively fresh Novak.

We've seen Andy have battles in AO semi finals and consequently run out of gas mid way through the final, and that's with a days rest, so I can't see anything but a straight sets Novak win.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 10:15 am

Jermaine2015 wrote:Djokovic was imperious and playing like the true world #1. Murray's been beating the lesser likes such as Tsonga, Dimitrov, Bautista Agut and Isner. Djokovic is a total different level and coupled with the knowledge Murray is the Serb's Bitch. Djokovic in straight sets.

Ah the lesser likes in a spell when Djokovic has been losing against these 'lesser likes' such as Cilic (Paris), Bautista-Agut (Shanghai), Sam Querrey (Wimledon) and others. Laugh
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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 10:20 am

Danny_1982 wrote:I must admit I feel a little robbed of a great occasion tonight. The top two in a shootout for year end number 1, in the back yard of the guy trying to achieve it for the first time... but in reality, having twice broke the record for longest BO3 match in ATP finals in 4 days, I struggle to see how Andy can beat a comparatively fresh Novak.

We've seen Andy have battles in AO semi finals and consequently run out of gas mid way through the final, and that's with a days rest, so I can't see anything but a straight sets Novak win.

I really am pretty chilled about it actually as if he loses then so be it as the No 1 spot has already been achieved and more than likely it will be back in Andy's possession early next year. The chief factor in the result here will be Murray's fatigue. Whatever happens he will go into 2017 full of beans.
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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 1:11 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Danny_1982 wrote:I must admit I feel a little robbed of a great occasion tonight. The top two in a shootout for year end number 1, in the back yard of the guy trying to achieve it for the first time... but in reality, having twice broke the record for longest BO3 match in ATP finals in 4 days, I struggle to see how Andy can beat a comparatively fresh Novak.

We've seen Andy have battles in AO semi finals and consequently run out of gas mid way through the final, and that's with a days rest, so I can't see anything but a straight sets Novak win.

I really am pretty chilled about it actually as if he loses then so be it as the No 1 spot has already been achieved and more than likely it will be back in Andy's possession early next year. The chief factor in the result here will be Murray's fatigue. Whatever happens he will go into 2017 full of beans.
Agree with both these posts. Ultimately, the YE1 would be nice for Andy but he's had to kill himself over several weeks to give himself a chance. I'd love to see a great match this evening but it isn't happening. Hopefully, he can summon one last effort for the year and at least give himself a shot early on to make the score respectable.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 1:23 pm

Murray winning the first set would keep things more interesting.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Guest82 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 3:37 pm

I think it depends really if Djokovic is actually back to somewhere near his best or was just flattered by poor performances from Nishikori and Goffin. Despite rallying well against Nishikori he missed some simple short balls when pressing. Not certain he's actually back.

Also, is Murray really a better/different player as world number one. Or is he just better than everyone bar Djokovic, which we already knew.

I think the cumulative tiredness of the last few weeks may play a part for Murray. I'm never convinced that these athletes struggle after one or two long matches though. We saw that Murray didn't struggle from the Nishikori match against Stan.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by lags72 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 3:52 pm

Yes, it's the overall cumulative effect of the last few weeks rather than just these WTF matches that will play a key part in Murray's performance in London tonight. In total contrast, Djokovic has had a much easier ride in the event, and has played nothing like the amount of tennis Andy has in the closing stages of the season.

The imbalance is especially unfortunate when you consider that it's a long time since any Bo3 Final (none that I recall easily ....?) has had so much resting on the available ranking points.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Calder106 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 4:00 pm

Murray didn't struggle against Wawrinka but he had a day off between matches. That would give him some good recovery time, similar to a best of 5 slam tournament. Now he will have played 3 days in a row including yesterdays marathon against Raonic. Can't see him being fully recovered from that. Think he will need to be aggressive and try to shorten the points as much as possible but Djokovic has to be heavy favourite.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 4:11 pm

Calder106 wrote:Murray didn't struggle against Wawrinka but he had a day off between matches. That would give him some good recovery time, similar to a best of 5 slam tournament. Now he will have played 3 days in a row including yesterdays marathon against Raonic. Can't see him being fully recovered from that. Think he will need to be aggressive and try to shorten the points as much as possible but Djokovic has to be heavy favourite.

Spot on. thumbsup
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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Guest82 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:28 pm

Think Murray has this. Djokovic looks appalling so far.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:33 pm

Novak playing beautifully already. Not yet dropped a point on serve and has been in both of Murrays service games. That said, Murray looks on a different level to his awful display yesterday. Question is whether he can keep it up.

Nothing yet to change my view of an easy win for Novak.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Guest82 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:38 pm

Do you think? I think we've seen a lot of unforced errors which are not usual to him. No one been in bother on serve yet, but Murray appears to be hitting the ball better.

I'd back Murray if it gets tight. His confidence may be the difference.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:44 pm

It's early doors, but I agree that Novak is looking a bit ropey. Didn't see the Nishi match but, judging by this display so far, I'm guessing Nishi must have been very poor indeed to get so resoundingly dispatched.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:45 pm

Djoko smash!

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:47 pm

Andy - challenges his own shots that are miles out but doesn't bother challenging Novak's second serve which was way long Doh

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Guest82 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:48 pm

Djokovic actually played well from the back of the court against Nishikori, but coughed up a lot of errors when attacking, especially when he had earned short balls. By the end Nishikori was going for too much and making lots of errors.

Couple of sloppy forehands in that last game from Murray.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:48 pm

I think Andy must have taken something for his shoulder. Had he served like this yesterday, he'd have been off court in an hour or so.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:50 pm

This is a seriously good match so far. If Andy maintains this level, we could get a couple of cracking sets.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:50 pm

Describing Novak's play as appalling is a bit of a stretch, so I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. Totally agree that a battle hardened Murray could have a match play advantage if it goes deep, but that could, of course, be balanced by Novak's fresher legs.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:54 pm

Born Slippy wrote:Andy - challenges his own shots that are miles out but doesn't bother challenging Novak's second serve which was way long Doh

He's not even top 100 calibre when it comes to challenges. To be fair though, I do think he uses them tactically at times to get a breather. On that second serve, Andy managed to hit a really deep return, which I think influenced his decision to play on.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:58 pm

Think I'm right that Andy has never beaten Novak from a set down. So, particularly given mileage in the legs, this first set is huge for Andy. He will serve for it!

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:00 pm

Serving out sets has not been Andy's forte lately.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Guest82 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:01 pm

Murray just playing the big points better. Roles reversed to how it used to be - Djokovic always seemed to be able to keep the ball in all day, now it's Murray.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:03 pm

But serve it out he does. Not sure how much Novak really want this, but we will see.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by lags72 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:04 pm

Djokovic came out looking as determined & focused as I have ever seen him.

One word for Murray so far : Excellent

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:05 pm

Epic stuff Andy. Been on the court three hours longer than Novak yet he is still doing all the pressing and takes the first set 6-3.
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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:07 pm

No question Andy has been excellent, but there have been some uncharacteristic misses from Novak, particularly on the big points.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by slashermcguirk on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:09 pm

Pains me to say this as a Djokovic fan for so many years but I think Novak is on the way out. He is a shadow of the player he was. His game is just woeful, hitting basic backhands into the bottom of the net.

I think since the French his motivation and passion for the game is deserting him. This match could be over very shortly. I don't think Djokovic enjoys the game anymore, he looks so withdrawn.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:15 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:Pains me to say this as a Djokovic fan for so many years but I think Novak is on the way out. He is a shadow of the player he was. His game is just woeful, hitting basic backhands into the bottom of the net.

I think since the French his motivation and passion  for the game is deserting him. This match could be over very shortly. I don't think Djokovic enjoys the game anymore, he looks so withdrawn.

I will just say this to you - remember my epitaph thread. Wink
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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:16 pm

Novak's BH is breaking down here and Andy grabs the early break. One danger is that Novak finds a way to raise his game and Andy takes a while to adjust. Can't quite believe that Novak will keep leaking these errors for the rest of the match.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Guest on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:17 pm

I have to say this is the worst Djokovic I've seen since about 2009.

So tentative. Every time he steps into the court he misses.

Murray has been pretty much flawless, albeit not been put under any pressure.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:17 pm

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:No question Andy has been excellent, but there have been some uncharacteristic misses from Novak, particularly on the big points.

Yes but isn't that the way. When Novak was undisputed top dog I watched Murray missing shots he'd normally get. It is what happens when one is on a roll and the other is striving for belief/confidence at key moments.
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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Guest82 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:19 pm

Agree. Djokovic is on the way down.

I suspect he'll become similar to Rafa for the next year or so. Everyone waiting for him to step up, but him never quite managing it.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:20 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:Pains me to say this as a Djokovic fan for so many years but I think Novak is on the way out. He is a shadow of the player he was. His game is just woeful, hitting basic backhands into the bottom of the net.

I think since the French his motivation and passion  for the game is deserting him. This match could be over very shortly. I don't think Djokovic enjoys the game anymore, he looks so withdrawn.

You have to wonder whether it's really in Novak's interest to snatch back the number one spot so soon. Given the mass of points he has to defend early next year, he's unlikely to hang on to it for long. Perhaps better to relinquish it and look to regroup, rather than being the hunted.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:21 pm

Having said that, no question that year end number one matters, so not surprised if Novak's a bit conflicted.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by lags72 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:26 pm

Novak cannot be sure if he will get the chance to end another year as World No 1 after this one, thus adding to his legacy. I cannot believe he won't give it his best shot for the remainder of this match.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:27 pm

Could do with an insurance break here. This match will mean a lot more to Murray, so fair chance he will get tight as he approaches the finish line.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:39 pm

Murray loses his no claim bonus. Novak seems to have woken up.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:40 pm

That DF at 30-15 4-1 could be costly for Andy. Needs to keep believing.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by lags72 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:42 pm

Novak looking sharp now.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:43 pm

This game is huge.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:46 pm

Andy holds and will get to serve for it at worst.

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Re: World Tour Finals

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 7:50 pm

Can see Novak going into wall mode here, so some free points on serve would be very welcome.

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Re: World Tour Finals

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