Wales v Australia, 5 November

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 31 Oct 2016, 6:52 am

First topic message reminder :

Wales v Australia, 5 November - Page 6 Wales_11 Wales v Australia, 5 November - Page 6 Austra10
WALES v AUSTRALIA  
5 November 2016
KO: 14:30 GMT
Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Live on BBC Sports

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Jérôme Garcès (France), Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

39 Played 39
10 Won 28
1 Drawn 1
28 Lost 10
596 Points 912

B. Recent Form

10 October 2015:
Twickenham Stadium
15 – 6 to Australia
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A

8 November 2014:
Millennium Stadium
28 – 33 to Australia
2014 Autumn International

30 November 2013:
Millennium Stadium
26 – 30 to Australia
2013 Autumn International

1 December 2012:
Millennium Stadium
12 – 14 to Australia
2012 Autumn International

23 June 2012:
Sydney Football Stadium
20 – 19 to Australia
Welsh Tour of Australia

16 June 2012:
Etihad Stadium
25 – 23 to Australia
Welsh Tour of Australia

9 June 2012:
Suncorp Stadium
27 – 19 to Australia
Welsh Tour of Australia

3 December 2011:
Millennium Stadium
18 – 24 to Australia
2011 Autumn International

C. Teams


WALES 
Wales v Australia, 5 November - Page 6 Dragon10
15 Leigh Halfpenny, 14 Alex Cuthbert, 13 Jonathan Davies, 12 Jamie Roberts, 11 George North, 10 Dan Biggar, 9 Rhys Webb, 8 Ross Moriarty, 7 Justin Tipuric, 6 Dan Lydiate, 5 Luke Charteris, 4 Bradley Davies, 3 Samson Le, 2 Ken Owens, 1 Gethin Jenkins

Replacements: 16 Scott Baldwin, 17 Nicky Smith, 18 Tomas Francis, 19 Cory Hill, 20 James King, 21 Gareth Davies, 22 Sam Davies, 23 Hallam Amos

AUSTRALIA  
Wales v Australia, 5 November - Page 6 Wallab10
15 Israel Folau, 14 Dane Haylett-Petty, 13 Tevita Kuridrani, 12 Reece Hodge, 11 Henry Speight, 10 Bernard Foley, 9 Nick Phipps, 8 Lopeti Timani, 7 Michael Hooper, 6 David Pocock, 5 Adam Coleman, 4 Rory Arnold, 3 Sekope Kepu, 2 Stephen Moore (c), 1 Scott Sio

Replacements: 16 Tolu Latu, 17 James Slipper, 18 Allan Alaalatoa, 19 Rob Simmons, 20 Scott Fardy, 21 Nick Frisby, 22 Quade Cooper, 23 Sefa Naivalu


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Post by eirebilly on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 3:58 pm

That looked awful for Webb, ouch.


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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 3:59 pm

Hope Webb is OK, that looked nasty.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:00 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Nothing changes. Howley has zero clue about rugby, Madge has zero clue about the English language and Hersh has resurfaced again.

Hey if it upsets the Welsh then the mods are okay with it - nothing changes there either.

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Post by Ineffable on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:02 pm

Love how as soon as North goes off his replacement winger helps create a try. Amos playing much better than North at the moment anyway no? Why was North/Cuthbert/Halfpenny selected? Is L Williams injured??

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:08 pm

Impressive Welsh sub front row!

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:10 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Impressive Welsh sub front row!

Smith?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:11 pm

Ineffable wrote:Love how as soon as North goes off his replacement winger helps create a try. Amos playing much better than North at the moment anyway no? Why was North/Cuthbert/Halfpenny selected? Is L Williams injured??

Williams injured, North is the form choice. Halfpenny has been playing well too as far as I'm aware.

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Post by wales606 on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:12 pm

Was about to say S.Davies had made a good impact, but the only try he sets up is another for Australia.
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Post by wales606 on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:12 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Ineffable wrote:Love how as soon as North goes off his replacement winger helps create a try. Amos playing much better than North at the moment anyway no? Why was North/Cuthbert/Halfpenny selected? Is L Williams injured??

Williams injured, North is the form choice. Halfpenny has been playing well too as far as I'm aware.

Halfpenny's defence save a couple of tries in the first half. Not that that will make a difference in the end
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Post by eirebilly on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:13 pm

Simply poor vision and onfield leadership from Wales. Howley really does not do a good job (sorry for saying that Welsh fans).
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Post by doctor_grey on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:14 pm

To be fair, Joubert was not responsible for Wales not seeing the 2 man or 3 man overlap down on the Aus line.

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Post by wales606 on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:15 pm

Wales need to make changes before next week, but we don't have any decent replacements. So it will be the same team, with no imagination, completely out of pace with modern rugby.
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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:16 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Impressive Welsh sub front row!

Smith?

The whole unit, destroying the Australian scrum.

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Post by eirebilly on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:19 pm

Australia played well in patches but were not exceptional, Wales were utterly dire.

Defensively too narrow in the first half, poor basic handling skills and I am still struggling to understand what their game plan was...
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Post by rumpelstiltskindoh on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:21 pm

I don't think the Wallabies are *that* much better than us, man for man. But as a team, they are more cohesive, both in defence and attack, they actually look like they know what they are doing. We had no attack at all.

I wasn't expecting Wales to come close, but that was really, really poor.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:22 pm

eirebilly wrote:Australia played well in patches but were not exceptional, Wales were utterly dire.

Defensively too narrow in the first half, poor basic handling skills and I am still struggling to understand what their game plan was...

Neat summary. Wales were very poor. Australia were good to very good.

Leg 1 of the grand slam complete.
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Post by TJ on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:23 pm

My view - its not really the players.  It the tactics.  If you kick everything in your own half always it makes life easy for your opponents.  Aus could kick long on restarts knowing it would be kicked back giving them possession.  Aus full back is very good - so what do wales do - keep on kicking the ball to him.  Wales in attack very predictable and slow.  HOw many times did the welsh scrum half hesitate when the ball was available at the back of the ruck.  I think this is because he knows the pattern they are supposed to play in and he has to wait for the pattern to form.

Gatland needs to give these players the license to mix it up and to play what they see in front of them - not just play to a set pattern and he needs to allow them to counter attack.  Wales could do with at least one wing with real pace as well.

OK - Our ( scotlands) turn next.  I see a high scoring stuffing.  Scotland will play heads up rugby and vary things a lot - but I see them leaking a bucket full of tries.


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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:23 pm

t.Great try from Wales. But too little to late really.

I know Wales might be a bit rusty when it comes to international Game.

But in all honesty it was simply men against boys. And Wales was certainly boys today. ( little boys )at that

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Post by eirebilly on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:26 pm

TJ wrote:My view - its not really the players.  It the tactics.  If you kick everything in your own half always it makes life easy for your opponents.  Aus could kick long on restarts knowing it would be kicked back giving them possession.  Aus full back is very good - so what do wales do - keep on kicking the ball to him.  Wales in attack very predictable and slow.  HOw many times did the welsh scrum half hesitate when the ball was available at the back of the ruck.  I think this is because he knows the pattern they are supposed to play in and he has to wait for the pattern to form.

Gatland needs to give these players the license to mix it up and to play what they see in front of them - not just play to a set pattern and he needs to allow them to counter attack.  Wales could do with at least one wing with real pace as well.

OK - Our ( scotlands) turn next.  I see a high scoring stuffing.  Scotland will play heads up rugby and vary things a lot - but I see them leaking a bucket full of tries.

Gatland was not involved in this as far as I am aware, this was all Howley and McBride. Wales play much better rugby under Gatland.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:28 pm

No point in explaining blatant facts to anti-Gatland people Billy. Anyway I get the impression a few were expecting a loss but perhaps not in this manner. It's deja vu and a certain someone should resign.

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Post by RiscaGame on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:28 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:t.Great try from Wales. But too little to late really.

I know Wales might be a bit rusty when it comes to international Game.

But in all honesty it was simply men against boys. And Wales was certainly boys today. ( little boys )at that

Can you ask a little boy to proof read your posts please?

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Post by TJ on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:29 pm

Its the same tactics tho with the same criticism. I said before the game that this is what would happen and sure enough - it did.

You have to make sure your opponents cannot predict what you will do. Wales are predictable.

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Post by TJ on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:30 pm

Change "Gatland" to "the coach" then and re read it

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:30 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Impressive Welsh sub front row!

Smith?

The whole unit, destroying the Australian scrum.

Was a penalty given and did it go the right way? I wasn't watching and you never know with Joubert. England must have been awesome in the second test against Aus last summer.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:31 pm

TJ wrote:Its the same tactics tho with the same criticism.   I said before the game that this is what would happen and sure enough - it did.

You have to make sure your opponents cannot predict what you will do.  Wales are predictable.

So when did you predict the score? I must have missed it.

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Post by George Carlin on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:32 pm

Oh dear. Just turned on and saw the score.

How can I put this diplomatically....what, er, happened?
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Post by eirebilly on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:32 pm

TJ. As an Irish fan I am also a neutral in this but in my opinion Wales under Gatland have a very structured and effective game plan. Under Howley, they look as if they have no game plan whatsoever.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:33 pm

wales606 wrote:Was about to say S.Davies had made a good impact, but the only try he sets up is another for Australia.

Oh great, so will this end the ridiculous hype around him then?

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Post by TJ on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:34 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
TJ wrote:Its the same tactics tho with the same criticism.   I said before the game that this is what would happen and sure enough - it did.

You have to make sure your opponents cannot predict what you will do.  Wales are predictable.

So when did you predict the score? I must have missed it.

Not on here ;-)

It just an opinion and opinions are like bumholes - everyone has one

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Post by TJ on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:38 pm

eirebilly wrote:TJ. As an Irish fan I am also a neutral in this but in my opinion Wales under Gatland have a very structured and effective game plan. Under Howley, they look as if they have no game plan whatsoever.

effective only against NH opposition. thats my point.

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Post by RiscaGame on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:41 pm

Definitely worth staying up till half one in Japan. Work in four hours too. Cheers Rob. Worst thing is I should've gone to bed after twenty as we were being ripped apart then, but I was intrigued to see how bad we could be.

Would love to see whether Gareth Thomas still wants Howley next in line.

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Post by eirebilly on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:41 pm

TJ wrote:
eirebilly wrote:TJ. As an Irish fan I am also a neutral in this but in my opinion Wales under Gatland have a very structured and effective game plan. Under Howley, they look as if they have no game plan whatsoever.

effective only against NH opposition.  thats my point.

Except when he is Lions coach eh thumbsup

I actually think he has been effective for Wales against SH sides, certainly making Wales competitive. I just think Wales have been very unlucky in many games against SH teams. They are certainly not whipping boys.
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Post by exile jack on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:41 pm

A massive vote of thanks to Howley,McBryde,Jenkins and Edwards(not to forget Gatso) for reducing Wales to the laughing stock of world rugby.At least I'm not paying to watch this dire,pathetic rugby dross.They are reducing very good Welsh players to rugby oompaloompa's I've got good odds on Wales losing all 4 AIs.I do hope that Webb is OK.Moriarty and Tipuric deserve credit for their commitment but for the others the bathroom mirror awaits.Let's hope England,Ireland,Scotland and France can restore NH pride.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:44 pm

TJ wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
TJ wrote:Its the same tactics tho with the same criticism.   I said before the game that this is what would happen and sure enough - it did.

You have to make sure your opponents cannot predict what you will do.  Wales are predictable.

So when did you predict the score? I must have missed it.

Not on here ;-)

It just an opinion and opinions are like bumholes - everyone has one

Laugh

Yeah, some posters often speak out of this hole. Thinking of Madge and Andy right now...

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Post by TJ on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:52 pm

Welsh fans - your players are better than this. man for man are the Aus guys really that much better? NO IMO -

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Post by PotNoodleMiner on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 4:54 pm

No vision, skill or enthusiasm today, at times it was like a training ground run for Australia

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Post by Guest on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 5:14 pm

What a crock of sh*t! But what's new?!

Last time we won an opening game in the AIs was, apparently, something like the early 90's against Romania!

Well done Aus. Good, but easy, win clap

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Post by exile jack on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 5:20 pm

Post-Match Howlerisms

1)I blame the players.
2)The roof was open
3)We'd gone well in training
4)We started slow
5)Aus were match ready following the SH season
6)Our kicking game lacked precision
7)We fell off too many tackles
8)We lost our way in the first 20/second 20/third 20/final 20 minutes
9/We never got the run of the ball
10)We got some harsh refereeing decisions
11)It was never a yellow card
12)I inherited a flawed game plan
13)It's early days
14)We'll learn lessons from the game.
15)We're between game styles.
16)We left too many points on the pitch
17)We must stick to our game plan
18)Blah blah blah di blah................blah.

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Post by Guest on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 5:32 pm

eirebilly wrote:Simply poor vision and onfield leadership from Wales. Howley really does not do a good job (sorry for saying that Welsh fans).

No need to apologise! We know! Although posters on here seem keen to remind us that we won a 6 nations with Howley therefore he's (allegedly) a better option than Gats Wink I disagree.

Actually, was watching the game in the pub and we were commenting on the coaching team in the stands and just how long they'd all been around the camp. It seems they've been together for years and years now. Time for some fresh impetus? Gats, Howley, Edwards, McBryde - they've had a good innings, but when Gats goes I'd prefer that they don't just promote from within as we know that the core is rotten, for want of a better term. A clean start would be better, in my opinion, than promoting Howley and then in time McBryde, etc. Because that just continues the same stale plans as always.

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Post by George Carlin on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 5:47 pm

Griff wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Simply poor vision and onfield leadership from Wales. Howley really does not do a good job (sorry for saying that Welsh fans).

No need to apologise! We know! Although posters on here seem keen to remind us that we won a 6 nations with Howley therefore he's (allegedly) a better option than Gats Wink I disagree.

Actually, was watching the game in the pub and we were commenting on the coaching team in the stands and just how long they'd all been around the camp. It seems they've been together for years and years now. Time for some fresh impetus? Gats, Howley, Edwards, McBryde - they've had a good innings, but when Gats goes I'd prefer that they don't just promote from within as we know that the core is rotten, for want of a better term. A clean start would be better, in my opinion, than promoting Howley and then in time McBryde, etc. Because that just continues the same stale plans as always.
Not to worry. Glasgow will let you have Dave Rennie after 2 years once he's taken us to successive Pro 12 championships. Cool
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Post by rumpelstiltskindoh on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 5:56 pm

The Wallabies *were* match ready and cohesive following the Rugby Championship. That accounted for some of the discrepancy in handling skills and the basic awareness of your teammates' positioning etc. It also means that Wales would tend to be more conservative, trying to stick with the plan they had learnt in training, rather than having recent practice of having to adapt plans during the match when things aren 't working. I thought all this would be enough to guarantee a Wallabies' win today.

But sheez, we were bad.

In attack, contrast the multiple running lines from depth and the variety of plays that Oz used with our leaden shuffle-it-along-the-line-and-into-contact approach.

In defence, they made the right decisions in the tackle area - tackler only when there's no chance of a turnover, counter-rucking when you get a sniff of the ball - whereas we went piling in regardless. Consequently, they were always able to get outside us, and we were never able to get outside them.

At set piece too, there is no excuse  - these should be drilled into the team in training. But our driving lineout was pathetic, both in offense and defence. Only the scrum showed some dominance in the last quarter and too late.

Moriarty and Tipuric did OK. Charteris was busy. Scott Williams was OK. Otherwise, all the players suffered from the utter inadequacy of our preparation.

I am now revising my prediction of 3/4 wins to 3/4 losses.

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Post by Heaf on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 6:49 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Ineffable wrote:Joubert was looking to allow advantage there but as soon as Wales get it he blows. That's not good, pretty sure he should just blow up immediately?

That's something I've noticed in the last 3 Aus vs Wales games reffed by Joubert - that and the reluctance to punish the Wallaby scrum. I'm not sure how it's functioning today as I'm missing the match. Now I don't want to accuse CJ of bias....but surely after all his performances in matches between the NH and SH more questions should be asked.

He's a plank and shouldn't be allowed to ref at this level ...

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Post by Gwlad on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 7:00 pm

Enough already

I'm pretty sick of the fact that Gatland's ambitions have yet again been put ahead of Welsh rugby. Howler is a buffoon as a Head Coach and after this performance i am sure Dai Young must be sitting pretty.

I would also hope that certain players who are frankly not up to standard never get the chance again (Cuthbert) and others (Roberts, Gethin) start reading between the lines that their halcyon days are numbered. North should be dropped altogether.

I have never seen such an impotent formulaic display from Wales. True, in the absence of AWJ, Sam, Faletau, Williams and JD2 we were missing the axis of attacking rugby that might have made us competitive but Australia were well rehearsed and sublime and lived up to their reputation as being the most exciting back line in the world when it comes together. Were it not for Aussie fumbles this would have been a 50 pointer. I expected a fired up contest for AWJ's dad. What we got was a complete no show. Only Tips and Moriarty showed any intent and Amos must have enjoyed sticking his proverbial finger up at Howler. And the hubris of Howler's statement about Half's kicking preeminence really came back to haunt him. In Davies we have a future star but why on the bench v Aus, why not start his career v Japan or Argentina. This was the perfect stage for Anscombe to come on as replacement.

Its time to get radical

Smith
Baldwin
Lee
AWJ
Ball
Moriarty
Tipuric/Sam
Faletau

Webb
Biggar
Williams L
Williams S
JD2
Amos
Half

Gethin
Owens
Francis
CHarteris
Sam/Tips
Davies G
Anscombe/Davies S
Giles

Gwlad

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Wales v Australia, 5 November - Page 6 Empty Re: Wales v Australia, 5 November

Post by Seagultaf on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 7:33 pm

Gwlad, Faletau is injured and it's also unlikely that Webb and Ball will be fit. I would start Liam at 15 if fit and play Halfpenny and North (again if fit) on the wings. Jon Davies to come in at centre and Roberts drop down to the bench. Gareth Davies is a more than able deputy for Webb, but not keen on Lloyd Williams as back up.

Up front Alan Wyn and Warbs to come in for Charteris and Tipuric and I would also start Smith ahead of Jenkins who looked his age today.

Liam Williams, Halfpenny, Jon Davies, Scott Williams, North, Bigger, Davies, Smith, Owen, Lee, AWJ, Bradley, Lydiate, Moriarty, Warburton.

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Wales v Australia, 5 November - Page 6 Empty Re: Wales v Australia, 5 November

Post by Gwlad on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 7:36 pm

I thought Faletau was likely to be fit for the next game?

Is the injury to Webb's ankle the same side as pre RWC?

I prefer Liam at 15 but Howler seems to think Half is a special case (e.g. kicking duties)

Actually today should be a day of celebration, i think it guarantees Howler will never be Head Coach. Very Happy

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 8:14 pm

Well I've watched it back and it was worse than I thought. We looked so amateur in every facet that I don't know where to begin. Aus were pretty good but it was made easy for them at times - they could go unbeaten on this tour though and they certainly look good enough IMO.

Given how bad it was then I'm not sure what I'd do for Arg next week who must be favourites, but I'd certainly think about dropping the following: Owens, Lydiate, Webb, Biggar, Roberts, Cuthbert; that would definitely be a good start.

CJ is certainly a strange ref. Like I said earlier I don't want to accuse him of bias but everything he did seemed to be in favour of allowing the Aus attack to flow and halt ours, well what little of it we showed anyway. His decisions in the maul and breakdown are as they have been for years, in favour of the SH and at odds with the actual rugby laws laid out by world rugby.

What do fans expect next week? I expect no significant changes to the starting team or tactics, and expect the rut to continue under this halfwit coaching team. 4 losses from 4 is still my prediction.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 8:47 pm

I prefer Liam at 15 but Howler seems to think Half is a special case (e.g. kicking duties)


His kicking wan't that great to day though was it?

I still think Biggar is a better kicker than Halfpenny my self any way.

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Post by Gwlad on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 8:54 pm

His statement that Half didnt deserve to have duties taken away is illogical. Clearly Biggar didnt deserve to have kicking duties taken away. Another howler.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 10:12 pm

So on this day the WRU allowed Howley to go home early to finish fitting some carpets, and Ireland thump NZ in Chicago. Are the alarm bells ringing yet?

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Post by Gwlad on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 10:19 pm

Shame on Wales. Ireland travel across the pond and hand the ABs a bit of a spanking whereas we look like a bunch of wet weekends in Port Talbot

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